Rion_Starkiller Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) I just figured Dulfy plays other games and doesn't dedicate much time to SWTOR any more. Edited February 21, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I just figured Dulfy plays other games and doesn't dedicate much time to SWTOR any more. She kept playing for along time after she was removed from the program. But you are correct, she has mostly moved on. Which I think has more to do with the state of the game than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) I think that it's kind of disgusting that there's a hidden forum for "influencers" and just how much attention that forum is getting and how much control they have over what Musco sends over to the devs and vice-versa. Maybe it's not so much disgusting as somewhat... unfair(?) towards anyone that isn't an Influencer. It creates this form of elitism where a certain specific group gets all the access to the devs while we - the rest of the playerbase - are mostly ignored and occasionally thrown a small communication bone on the forums. I have heard the Influencers frequently say they're the voice of the fans or they're there specifically for the fans. I am not saying they're not, because the smaller Influencers really engage with their communities and listen to them. But - not meaning to backtalk any of the Influencers - this is not the case for all the Influencers, or at least it comes across as such. Letting yourself be heard in some of the bigger Influencer communities is often just as hard as getting noticed by the devs on these forums is. That creates an extra obstacle in player communication, just contact us directly. The level of communication and engagement with the devs the Influencers are getting should be directed towards the other players as well, to us mortals here. Like it's nice Eric Musco tried to give it a funny spin, talking about tin foil hats and everything. But the devs have created that environment themselves with their lack of communication. Especially if they give one specific small group of players special hidden access to them. Edited February 21, 2019 by Ylliarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiiTarr Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Maybe it's not so much disgusting as somewhat... unfair(?) towards anyone that isn't an Influencer. It creates this form of elitism where a certain specific group gets all the access to the devs while we - the rest of the playerbase - are mostly ignored and occasionally thrown a small communication bone on the forums. I have heard the Influencers frequently say they're the voice of the fans or they're there specifically for the fans. I am not saying they're not, because the smaller Influencers really engage with their communities and listen to them. But - not meaning to backtalk any of the Influencers - this is not the case for all the Influencers, or at least it comes across as such. Letting yourself be heard in some of the bigger Influencer communities is often just as hard as getting noticed by the devs on these forums is. That creates an extra obstacle in player communication, just contact us directly. The level of communication and engagement with the devs the Influencers are getting should be directed towards the other players as well, to us mortals here. Like it's nice Eric Musco tried to give it a funny spin, talking about tin foil hats and everything. But the devs have created that environment themselves with their lack of communication. Especially if they give one specific small group of player special access to them. I agree with most of the points you're making here. I've never communicated with any influencer, so they have no way of speaking for me. I have posted here on the forums when asked for feedback (and at times even when not). To learn the influencers have their own private forum where they are actively engaged by the devs and then to contrast that with the level of engagement here on the official forums makes me feel as though my opinions on these forums seem to be valued less than the opinions of the influencers. Edited February 21, 2019 by PiiTarr clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Maybe that explains why there's no communication to us, the plebs on the forums... All the time spent communicating is to influencers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 I agree with most of the points you're making here. I've never communicated with any influencer, so they have no way of speaking for me. I have posted here on the forums when asked for feedback (and at times even when not). To learn the influencers have their own private forum where they are actively engaged by the devs and then to contrast that with the level of engagement here on the official forums makes me feel as though my opinions on these forums seem to be valued less than the opinions of the influencers. I don't have anything against the Influencers, it's great that they're there because they do do nice stuff for our player community. But it's just not entirely okay - I think - that they're the ones that get special hidden access while we get barely any communication. Like I wouldn't have had anything negative to say about a special hidden forum if on our normal regular forums we had the same level of communication and engagement. But now it feels off and knowing there is a hidden Influencer forum out there makes me feel somewhat... awkward? Uneasy? The lesser player? Idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiiTarr Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 As a content creator though, even if I wasn't in the program my voice might be heard over the clamor because when I do post opinions, they're in a highly organized and extremely well made compared to a basic forum post. I'm highlighting this portion of your highly organized post because I'm not sure it comes across quite the way you want it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) I'm highlighting this portion of your highly organized post because I'm not sure it comes across quite the way you want it to. But to be honest, that kind of attitude adds to the feeling we're the lesser players, with "us" meaning everyone who isn't an Influencer. I hope that the Influencers don't actually think of themselves as the better/more worthy player, I know for a fact some of them are humble and great people. But posts like the one you quoted do come across as if they consider the rest of the playerbase "the plebs" like Lhancelot said Edited February 21, 2019 by Ylliarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiiTarr Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 But to be honest, that kind of attitude adds to the feeling we're the lesser players, with "us" meaning everyone who isn't an Influencer. I hope that the Influencers don't actually think of themselves as the better/more worthy player, I know for a fact some of them are humble and great people. But posts like the one you quoted do come across as if they consider the rest of the playerbase "the plebs" like Lhancelot said That's exactly why I was bringing it to her attention. I don't think she wanted to come across that way, but it sure does seem a bit elitist to me. I've seen plenty of "basic forum posts" that were "highly organized and extremely well made." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I don't have anything against the Influencers, it's great that they're there because they do do nice stuff for our player community. But it's just not entirely okay - I think - that they're the ones that get special hidden access while we get barely any communication. Like I wouldn't have had anything negative to say about a special hidden forum if on our normal regular forums we had the same level of communication and engagement. But now it feels off and knowing there is a hidden Influencer forum out there makes me feel somewhat... awkward? Uneasy? The lesser player? Idk. Yea kind of felt that way as well as our opinions don't count but kind of been feeling that for awhile lately and it seems my guild is going to come play wow with me (they are sweet) for now until we see if they do anything different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) I agree with most of the points you're making here. I've never communicated with any influencer, so they have no way of speaking for me. I have posted here on the forums when asked for feedback (and at times even when not). To learn the influencers have their own private forum where they are actively engaged by the devs and then to contrast that with the level of engagement here on the official forums makes me feel as though my opinions on these forums seem to be valued less than the opinions of the influencers. What I would like to know is how much do the devs listen to them? If they do listen a lot and implement changes because of that, then the influencers are also to blame for the sad state the game’s become over the years. How many people have given feed back on these forums and on the PTS in the last 12 months and BioWare basically ignore everything they are told. So why do they even bother to ask us plebs on the these forums for feed back?? If they are ignoring us and listening to the influencers, then it becomes glaringly apparent why we get such stupid changes that the minority like and go against what the majority want. ie this stupid gearing system that is tailored around 3% of the games population. I get that the influencers have followers that give them feed back. But how many of the actual game’s population even know who these people are to provide feed back? If BioWare really want to find out what the player base wants, they should be engaging us them selves through official channels and not relying on third hand information that can be easily tainted to fit personal preferences. BioWare should do their own work and the community manager should be communicating and being engaged with the community to find out what the players want and not hiding behind the influencers and getting them to do his work for him. This is the problem and I think there would be overwhelming community support for this to change and have BioWare engage us directly and not through the influencers. Edited February 21, 2019 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) That's exactly why I was bringing it to her attention. I don't think she wanted to come across that way, but it sure does seem a bit elitist to me. I've seen plenty of "basic forum posts" that were "highly organized and extremely well made." Like most of yours I have seen, doesn't mean I agree with them all p. Edited February 21, 2019 by casirabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiiTarr Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Like most of yours I have seen, doesn't mean I agree with them all p. I appreciate that more than you know, casi, as I've always seen you to be a voice of reason, even when I haven't been in complete agreement (but more often than not I tend to agree with what you've said as I recall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AureliaSulis Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Maybe that explains why there's no communication to us, the plebs on the forums... All the time spent communicating is to influencers? Seems a reasonable supposition. What I'd really like to know is what groups do Influencers represent? Is there a fair and equitable spread across all playstyles and demographics, or do most influencers predominate in raid/operation endgame combat. For example, who speaks for me - an Aussie battling red-dot lag, who would appreciate a West Coast server, would really like an Odessen Stronghold, the Alliance as a third-faction, and my choice of companions to accompany my characters in their adventures. Going by recent decisions (5.10) I see no-one speaking for me and no plan to speak for me in the future. So if no influencer speaks for me, and no-one with influence listens to me (or most other people here), then what exactly do these forums accomplish except to corral everyone with a gripe against the game or an aspect of the game or a good idea for improving the game into one place where they can be easily ignored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiiTarr Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 What I would like to know is how much do the devs listen to them? If they do listen a lot and implement changes because of that, then the influencers are also to blame for the sad state the game’s become over the years. How many people have given feed back on these forums and on the PTS in the last 12 months and BioWare basically ignore everything they are told. So why do they even bother to ask us plebs on the these forums for feed back?? If they are ignoring us and listening to the influencers, then it becomes glaringly apparent why we get such stupid changes that the minority like and go against what the majority want. ie this stupid gearing system that is tailored around 3% of the games population. I get that the influencers have followers that give them feed back. But how many of the actual game’s population even know who these people are to provide feed back? If BioWare really want to find out what the player base wants, they should be engaging us them selves through official channels and not relying on third hand information that can be easily tainted to fit personal preferences. BioWare should do their own work and the community manager should be communicating and being engaged with the community to find out what the players want and not hiding behind the influencers and getting them to do his work for him. This is the problem and I think there would be overwhelming community support for this to change and have BioWare engage us directly and not through the influencers. While I agree that it would be nice to know, I suspect that is going to remain one of the many "unknowables." However, the point you make stands... either they listen to them and implement the feedback which means the state of the game is the direct result of said feedback (for good or ill) or they ignore them, in which case it would seem no feedback matters whatsoever (aside from the mass drop in subscriptions following 5.0 that resulted in EA sending out that survey email). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 But to be honest, that kind of attitude adds to the feeling we're the lesser players, with "us" meaning everyone who isn't an Influencer. I hope that the Influencers don't actually think of themselves as the better/more worthy player, I know for a fact some of them are humble and great people. But posts like the one you quoted do come across as if they consider the rest of the playerbase "the plebs" like Lhancelot said Agreed. Especially when you consider many of us regular forum posters are just as passionate about the game and “ we also post opinions, that are in a highly organized and extremely well made compared to a basic forum post” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAdmiral Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 That's exactly why I was bringing it to her attention. I don't think she wanted to come across that way, but it sure does seem a bit elitist to me. I've seen plenty of "basic forum posts" that were "highly organized and extremely well made." Sorry, didn't mean to come across that way. What I'm trying to say is *anyone* can have a voice on other platforms (like youtube) if they put the time in, they don't need to be an influencer or have access to private forums. And hell yeah I've seen some great forum posts.That's why there is so many linked here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=958684 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiiTarr Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Sorry, didn't mean to come across that way. What I'm trying to say is *anyone* can have a voice on other platforms (like youtube) if they put the time in, they don't need to be an influencer or have access to private forums. And hell yeah I've seen some great forum posts.That's why there is so many linked here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=958684 Thank you for clarifying. I don't know you at all, but based on other things you've posted it did not seem to be something you'd want to come across that way, so I appreciate the response and explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 the mass drop in subscriptions following 5.0 that resulted in EA sending out that survey email). Yeah, an email many of us subscribers did not get and lots of F2P got instead My two accounts, plus my wife’s = 3 in my household alone and we didn’t get one. 32 people in my pvp guild (all subs) didn’t get one. Multiple friends outside of the guild didn’t get one. At least 50 subscribers I knew didn’t get one. We didn’t even know about it till it was discussed by some on the forums. I personally don’t know anyone who got one. So how many did they send out and who too? If you are going to send a survey out to players, send it to ALL your subscribers and not a select few. If you want to find out what F2P people want, then send them a seperate survey because subscribers and F2P often want totally different things from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiiTarr Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Yeah, an email many of us subscribers did not get and lots of F2P got instead My two accounts, plus my wife’s = 3 in my household alone and we didn’t get one. 32 people in my pvp guild (all subs) didn’t get one. Multiple friends outside of the guild didn’t get one. At least 50 subscribers I knew didn’t get one. We didn’t even know about it till it was discussed by some on the forums. I personally don’t know anyone who got one. So how many did they send out and who too? If you are going to send a survey out to players, send it to ALL your subscribers and not a select few. If you want to find out what F2P people want, then send them a seperate survey because subscribers and F2P often want totally different things from the game. I had forgotten about that... I've been continuously subscribed since I started playing and I got one, but I did not confer with guildmates about it so I'm not sure who else got it among the players I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Seems a reasonable supposition. What I'd really like to know is what groups do Influencers represent? Is there a fair and equitable spread across all playstyles and demographics, or do most influencers predominate in raid/operation endgame combat. Judging by the game design changes it appears influencers enjoy slow gear grinds, they hate alts, they hated the old conquest system, they love RNG, and they get bored with one gearing system after a year or so seeing we keep getting new gearing systems every year to two years. No one I know ever professed to wanting the old conquest system to be totally gutted and redone, no one I ever talked to complained about gearing alts was too easy, no one I ever seen complained about conquest being too alt-friendly, and no one I ever talked to wanted RNG to be the prominent feature of gearing on SWTOR. I just have to assume this is all stuff communicated to BW by the influencers seeing absolutely no one on the forums or in the game asked for these many changes and more. This leads me to say, I am highly disappointed in our Influencer Representatives who have clearly not communicated to BW what we the players actually want in SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 So that this thread doesn't entirely derail, I've made a specific thread wherein the discussion of the Influencers and the level of communication they get can be further discussed: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=960984 Because I do think it's something that should be discussed, now that we have been told there is a special hidden forum out there just for the Influencers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 So that this thread doesn't entirely derail... I love this thread. It has brought some of the most interesting and engaging SWTOR conversations to life. I view this thread more as a plant soil, waiting for important topics to be planted and discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyAnn Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 My understanding is Dulfy was once an influencer and she criticised BioWare one too many times publically and they removed her from it. Dulfy was never a part of the influencer program. That is why it is a joke to me and always will be. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Dulfy was never a part of the influencer program. That is why it is a joke to me and always will be. . As much as Dulfy did for this game, it's surprising Dulfy wouldn't be an influencer, or at least was never an influencer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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