jnrose Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Hi, So I'm conflicted with this one but Referral Links may be hurting this game and the players. Also, Before I continue, I would love to hear your guy's opinions and thoughts please! This is my opinion & experience I've had with the links. Conceptually & Theoretically the purpose is great, however that is not the case with the implementations. The biggest issue I'm noticing players are having is the SPAM on the General chat in game. Now Bioware has limits/restrictions and how they can promote as they should however these advertisements are still putting a bad taste in other player's mouths. I can't speak for other players but a majority are becoming irradiated by the focus of CC. and flooding the chat with their greed rather instead of enjoying the game. I understand both sides, I do promote but I don't spam and I'm careful with my approach, I always respect general chat as that is used for actual in game content, lore & etc. Pros: I also enjoy money, credits & CC. being wealthy is desirable and something I aim to obtain! I think it's a win/win to sell referral links for credits because both parties benefit and it makes the world go around. However the danger in doing so can shift the players focus in the wrong direction. There are MANY more variables that the ref links could cause swtor good or bad but that's for another time. I'm not here to argue right or wrong, more of the line as what's most appropriate for swtor and it's community. I do have possible solution in mind but what do you guys think? I believe it's about balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) I've never used mine and don't know what the link looks like, or where I'd even find it. It gives me more satisfaction to have a trollish signature than a clickbait one. Every 90 days I click on someone's referral, a poster here that I like [last time it was Yillarus] to get an extra 7 days sub time. As I normally sub for less than 90 days at a time, I'll usually resub around that time, and aim it for times when I have extended breaks, like Christmas. I never answer the spam in chat and rarely notice it tbh [i find "queue solo ranked" far more annoying]. I don't know if the other person gets anything since I'm not a regular sub, but they don't owe me anything. Unless they're quitting the game, then I want their stuff. I think the intended purpose and the practical result makes referrals stupid. I also think the security key unlock is stupid - it never lets me keep it and I have to redo the process every month to get the 100cc - but as there are tangible rewards, it's worthwhile for that reason. Edited September 16, 2018 by Ardrossan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) Well, I'm one of the earliest people to have ever done the link thing almost 5 years ago ( I sort of became a pariah for a while until Bioware said it was perfectly ok and normalized it, it's a very long story ), so I think I can offer some half-decent perspective on positives and negatives this brings. ------------------------------------------ I do think a positive is that the link sharing encourages people to keep investing time in the game by showing they don't necessarily have to shell out a ton of money to get the most in demand skins or save up months of cartel sub grants for one speeder or some armor, and thereby that keeps some people interested who might have otherwise looked at that and been put off. It does also give people something extra to work towards related to this game, also giving incentive to invest time into this. I've also seen that this has been helpful to certain swtor content creators ( youtubers, streamers, website owners, etc ) who are able to post their links which gives their fans a way of helping out those whose content they enjoy. The free week sub time is also generally encouraging to people either wanting to try getting into the game again or want to start. ---------------------------------------- Though a negative is that since this was never intended to work this way, it probably affected the game's cartel profits ( though I can't guess nearly by how much, given I don't know how many people who used the link referral system would have spent actual money on the coins otherwise, or on the other hand how many would have bought coins if the referral link system hadn't made it so certain cartel items would make their way onto the gtn cheaper so they could just spend in game credits ). It also gives the people who sell credits illegally a potential way to fundraise ( but it's not like that wasn't already a problem years prior anyway so I doubt there's been so much damage done in that department that didn't already exist ). And yeah there's the link spam thing, which yeah is annoying, and I sometimes rant in chat when someone does that in ways that make me feel like an old man yelling at kids to get off my lawn. In my day we just put them in our forum signatures and posted frequently on the forums ( even though I haven't posted on the forums for YEARS despite being a continuously active player, I see I STILL get clicks and subsequent coins from people going over old threads I posted in ), so I really am interested in knowing how many clicks people have gotten with that method compared to the forum method. I also never quite understood why people feel the need to shell out credits to get people to click their links, I mean you get a week free sub time and free inventory space which is worth more than the 100k I see typically offered for clicks. I mean I'd lead with the free sub time first rather than that. I guess credits get people's attention more immediately, but still. If I was a new player and saw someone begging me to click a link for credits in chat, I would immediately think someone was trying to give me a virus, whereas on the forums you know mods are active so there's a level of safety. Either way I don't see a real solution to that, if Bioware can't stop the illegal credits-for-money spammers then I think similar issues would arise in trying to deal with link spammers. -------------------------------------------- I think in the end there have been enough positives with the experience overall, it's a common thing people use and engage in that keeps people interested, and as I've mentioned it helps SWTOR content creators who provide some pretty good guides about new game content. And if it affected things too badly I think Bioware would have stepped in and changed it long ago to something more restrictive, so I think the effect on their end is either positive or at the least negligible enough that they're happy to let the players keep enjoying it. Out of curiosity what were your thoughts about solutions OP? And what balance issues do you see? Edited September 17, 2018 by Sangrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend-Referral Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Revisit the forums every 3 months for a couple of weeks and rustle some jimmies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnrose Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Hello, I want to say thank you guys for your interest, especially "Sangrar" for his elaborate and detailed message. Swtor has grown and will continue to evolve because of us the community, participation is always encouraged! Anyways I will answer and explain my thoughts/solutions soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celise Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) i put the referral there in the signature and don't pretty it up, and if anyone wants to use it it? is their choice. i will never ever encourage or suggest that mine should be used more than anyone else and neither should this message encourage such a thing. Regardless of the Pros and Cons, what others choose to do regarding the referral has nothing to do with me. The "rewards" are all virtual in curency but they aren't actually worth anything in the end because once the game is done for? anything accomplished, and even if bioware patch out the multiplayer aspect and allows you to transfer your account content to your game? when it is all said and done, it still doesn't matter because you aren't getting ahead of anyone being that it is all virtual, and Virtual items don't have any value as it is stated in the terms. Edited September 17, 2018 by Celise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 The biggest issue I'm noticing players are having is the SPAM on the General chat in game. Before someone adds a bit of stupidity to this thread and suggests to get rid of referral codes altogether, please note there's also a lot of guild spam in general chat. Spam for guild chat and spam for referral codes doesn't set up an argument to get rid of guilds or referral codes. If the focus of the thread is spam, then the issue raised by the OP joins the long list of other gripes people have with even other types of spam, such as roleplay spam, jawa game spam, spam to join lowbie and mid queues for pvp... There's spam all over the place. It's the nature of gen chat. Elevating a concern of one type of spam over any type is meaningless. There's volumes of spam of all kinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm-Cutter Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I had a link only for the last year or so. and apart from a couple of people I know IRL, the rewards only come at a trickle - maybe one every few months. There's a lot of competition, and a few people aggressively promote their links - on the forums or in chat in game. But as others have said, you're not getting rich quick, coz it's with currency of no value. A few extra CCS and benefits are nice, but there's nothing much I wana buy with CCs anymore. I certainly don't need another reskinned droid pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Before someone adds a bit of stupidity to this thread and suggests to get rid of referral codes altogether, please note there's also a lot of guild spam in general chat. Spam for guild chat and spam for referral codes doesn't set up an argument to get rid of guilds or referral codes. If the focus of the thread is spam, then the issue raised by the OP joins the long list of other gripes people have with even other types of spam, such as roleplay spam, jawa game spam, spam to join lowbie and mid queues for pvp... There's spam all over the place. It's the nature of gen chat. Elevating a concern of one type of spam over any type is meaningless. There's volumes of spam of all kinds. I agree. Referral spam is not the biggest spam issue in game, not even close. It's just that it is a very polarized activity in terms of players who like or dislike it. So.. like many things about MMOs.... some players will blow it out of objective proportion. Spam is spam. It's not generally the topic in chat (setting aside the hate and bait rhetoric that is always present) but rather the method. If someone is spamming the same thing every 10 seconds... regardless of the topic.. that is needless spam that actually jams up the chat channel. Personally, I do not publish my referral link, and never have. I do not broadcast my link in game either, nor to I offer to pay people to take advantage of it. It was intended to be a .... wait for it.... Friends Referral Link... and that is what I have used it for over the years... as a private incentive for myself and some friend who wants to take advantage of the perks that come with it. NOW..... Is the Referral Link process being misused by some in game? Yeah.. in my view it is... but like everything else.. if you have a concern.. you report it to the studio and move on. It is up to the studio to review the report and determine if any action is warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerockyul Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 It's less about the spam and more the scamming that I don't like. Offering outlandish credits and not paying, somehow convincing someone to pay up front and then they don't click (the scamming happens on both sides). I don't like the newb farming, really. They get a bad impression or experience with the game and more potential loss of players that we can't afford. GG people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Ziva Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Conceptually & Theoretically the purpose is great, however that is not the case with the implementations. I agree with this. It is absolutely stupid that a referral link can be used by a current subscriber. The whole point of referrals is to get new players to subscribe. Giving rewards to current subscribers for getting another current subscriber to click their link makes zero sense and it's what causes 99% of the referral spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 (edited) I agree with this. It is absolutely stupid that a referral link can be used by a current subscriber. The whole point of referrals is to get new players to subscribe. Giving rewards to current subscribers for getting another current subscriber to click their link makes zero sense and it's what causes 99% of the referral spam. Yeah they were sort of put in a bind, this wasn't entirely their choice. Because this bug was originally discovered during the holiday season when the majority of Bioware staff were on vacations it became too widespread for them to easily deal with, so they decided to accept this as a feature instead. I think the reason they didn't just change it back to its original state was that a certain amount of people made a lot of cartel coins at the time ( trust me A LOT ), and if they were gonna forgive the people who first took advantage of that then they'd have to make it open to everyone so they could have the same chance at making similar amounts otherwise it'd be unfair. ---------------------------------------- I think if I may go off what you said, while it is clear that most people who click the links aren't new players, I should point out that thanks to this a lot of people on the forums have their links in signatures, and I know from my account's log of referral link clicks that new players and returning looking through the forums for the first time do actually click on the links, with some subscribing later and some not. This has basically made referral links so common and widespread that more legit new players are now using them than they ever did before this happened. Albeit not in the original intended "personal friends" way, but still in a way that might be encouraging to a new player who is going through the forums curious about investing time and effort into this. So in terms of that while you are right in that the original purpose of referral links has been undercut, the tide has raised all ships. Edited September 18, 2018 by Sangrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanLakatosh Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I often invite my friends and gaming buddies to play something I'm playing. I often put effort into milking the referral system in free/freemium games for profit. These two processes rarely ever meld - I don't want to bug my actual friends with greed, and I don't want to play with the people I interact with for ingame gains. If the referral system has any other point than giving me ingame stuff for a bit of tedium, it completely missed me. I hope I'm just a special snowflake, and all of you have all your friends and family referred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Personally, I do not publish my referral link, and never have. I do not broadcast my link in game either, nor to I offer to pay people to take advantage of it. It was intended to be a .... wait for it.... Friends Referral Link... This here. ^ Never felt it was appropriate for me to use it simply as a way to personally garner more CCs even though I can see the allure and understand why people do so. I just tend to stick to my own moral compass on these types of things and this one crosses it, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorsaLindahl Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) I necro'd a thread to violate the TOS. GO ME! That's two. Never felt it was appropriate for me to use it simply as a way to personally garner more CCs even though I can see the allure and understand why people do so. Don't forget those awesome rewards! 110 speed mount regardless of training level (which is IMO the best reward) and those awesome mini pets! I've never advertised mine. Even my sig doesn't mention it like many do. In fact, for a long time (over a year) I had my signature linked to a different account, and now it has all the rewards as well. I've got quite a long list of referrals. It's too bad BW couldn't do more to keep more of them as paying customers. That's why people want subscribers - that way they know they're going to get CC's. Most people, though, only click it so they can get their free week of unrestricted access, then just go back to their F2P - if they even bother to stick around. Edited January 13, 2019 by PorsaLindahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenduKundalini Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) Don't forget those awesome rewards! 110 speed mount regardless of training level (which is IMO the best reward) and those awesome mini pets! I thought that had been fixed ???? Edited January 14, 2019 by BenduKundalini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I save them for when I'm not subbing and I can use them for the infrequent double xp weeks they have throughout the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenduKundalini Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) Makes me think, after being unsubbed 6 months, I clicked on a link from a famous fashion page, as it's super useful, as a token of gratitude for that awesome work - and didn't get any extra 7 days of sub. If they should be unsubbed at the time I click their referral, shouldn't I get an error message ? If that's not why, I'm confused as to why I didn't get those 7 days... Edited January 14, 2019 by BenduKundalini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denavin Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 This is my opinion & experience I've had with the links. Conceptually & Theoretically the purpose is great, however that is not the case with the implementations. The biggest issue I'm noticing players are having is the SPAM on the General chat in game. Now Bioware has limits/restrictions and how they can promote as they should however these advertisements are still putting a bad taste in other player's mouths. I can't speak for other players but a majority are becoming irradiated by the focus of CC. and flooding the chat with their greed rather instead of enjoying the game. I understand both sides, I do promote but I don't spam and I'm careful with my approach, I always respect general chat as that is used for actual in game content, lore & etc. Not a problem... You see there is this little thing called "Ignore" it works wonders for annoying posts and people.... There are MANY more variables that the ref links could cause swtor good or bad but that's for another time. If you are talking about people offering credits then scamming the clicker.... Well buyer beware... Fools and their money are soon parted. You will find little to No sympathy for these clickers here or the people that scam them. I believe it's about balance. Balance? What Balance. You get nothing that affects the play of the game so there is NO balance involved. Please explain what "Balance" you are referring to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorsaLindahl Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) I thought that had been fixed ???? What? The speeder? It wasn't broken. That was the whole enticement for it: Max speed (at the time) speeder for your first referral that subscribed. Edited January 14, 2019 by PorsaLindahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) Hi, So I'm conflicted with this one but Referral Links may be hurting this game and the players. Um. No. They're not harming a thing. And if the spam is your biggest complaint you cite for hurting the game, as mentioned above, hit /ignore. Edited January 14, 2019 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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