Bio intent to create in game 1% trillionairs

[NuSeC]

One of the most impressive posts I've ever seen on these forums. I love how organized it was...THANK YOU!

 

I agree... that was nice.

 

Props!

[olagatonjedi]

Curious....

 

Ive not played in a while... keep my sub on auto renewal in case they do something worthy of my time.

 

However, it is indeed a repeat if this new gear grind/schem drop goes into play.

 

People were mad and griped about 5.0 when it was announced - when it was in testing- and when it was released to the players. We had a massive exodus from the game and it left the devs with their pants down.

 

This game has a long history of the devs believing they know more of what the players want than the actual players do.

 

To counter the valid arguments the players made what we got in return was meme worthy. "It will be exciting" "Never know what you will get" "we can tweak the drop rates."

 

Perhaps it would be best for these devs to not just hear us but to actually listen to us for once.

 

This latest "crafted endgame gear grind" is a gigantic dumb idea.

 

Vendors guys... tokens, a sure thing... RNG should NEVER be involved in gearing in an MMO. You grind for results... not the possibility of a result.

 

This game has not had enough new content to warrant new gear. New gear is not content!

The "mass exodus" was due to many players unwilling to adapt to a dynamic game. And you cant fault BW for their lack of adaptability. The loot system was going to be released regardless, and instead of providing constructive feedback on ways to improve the 5.0 loot system prior to the release, the feedback was mostly consisting of feedback to not change the loot system, or wasted banter. Obviously if a company spends the majority of its resources on a project, they are not going to completely toss it out without giving it a try. And with a few belated improvements (after belated constructive feedback from playerbase), the current system is fairly well received. Everyone can do what they enjoy and still have the potential to wear BIS.

Edited September 25, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Andryah]

Curious....

 

Ive not played in a while... keep my sub on auto renewal in case they do something worthy of my time.

 

However, it is indeed a repeat if this new gear grind/schem drop goes into play.

 

People were mad and griped about 5.0 when it was announced - when it was in testing- and when it was released to the players. We had a massive exodus from the game and it left the devs with their pants down.

 

This game has a long history of the devs believing they know more of what the players want than the actual players do.

 

To counter the valid arguments the players made what we got in return was meme worthy. "It will be exciting" "Never know what you will get" "we can tweak the drop rates."

 

Perhaps it would be best for these devs to not just hear us but to actually listen to us for once.

 

This latest "crafted endgame gear grind" is a gigantic dumb idea.

 

Vendors guys... tokens, a sure thing... RNG should NEVER be involved in gearing in an MMO. You grind for results... not the possibility of a result.

 

This game has not had enough new content to warrant new gear. New gear is not content!

 

The thing is... GC was misrepresented pre-release. What was released was not what was presented as coming. further.. it took them over 6 months to make modest adjustments to address some of the most egregious misrepresentations.

 

But honestly.. that is part and parcel for MMOs in my experience.. so it is largely beside the point. Why? Because MMOs change constantly over time.. and when a change comes that impacts the way players are "accustomed to" doing something.... the player reacts.

Some react emotionally and in the form of outbursts and demands slathered in heaping hyperbole and rhetoric.

 

Some look at the change and assess what it means for them personally, and how best to adapt to the change and move forward.

 

Some don't really care all that much one way or the other and just roll along with whatever it is.

 

Personally, having played MMOs for almost 20 years.. I learned even before WoW released that MMOs are a take as it comes and adapt to any changes and continue onward. And for the most part.. in WoW.. Blizzard simply doubled down on the approach.

 

In the case of 5.0 and the GC based gearing system here ... smart players quickly assessed that a combination of reusing their old BiS armor mods with set bonus in combination with new mods from the 5.0 gearing generation = gear good enough to get up and running in 5.0 and not sweat grinding for GC and GC crates.... but instead let them come as they do.. as you continue to play the game. Further... at the release of 5.0... crafted gear in the non-moddable variety were actually quite good, and sufficient for almost everyones alts (other then an alt that was actually a second or third main for a player doing the hardest or most competitive content). Other players simply hopped on the hamster wheel of GC and proceeded to be captive hamsters to the studio while ************ it about it day in and day out.

 

And no.. crafted gearing is not a bad idea.. it is just a different approach and idea to endless grinding for random outcomes. Beyond that.. we have no details on the new crafted gear to make judgments upon yet.. because they have told us only that it will be crafted, it will be from drop schematics and materials that comes from capped level group content (with the implication it will be OPs). That's it. That's all we know. We do not know if the stats on the new gear will even be worth the work.. or if it is just as anemic as the 240 augments were. We do not know what materials, or where exactly they will drop, or how rare they will actually be. But no matter how you slice it.. I'll take a crafted gear approach over RNG driven endless grinding for crates.

[NuSeC]

The "mass exodus" was due to many players unwilling to adapt to a dynamic game.

Oh? Was that it? Despite the hundreds of threads still available for view actually saying why?

 

And you cant fault BW for their lack of adaptability.

 

I am a customer... I can and will place blame where it is due. On BW.

 

The loot system was going to be released regardless, and instead of providing constructive feedback on ways to improve the 5.0 loot system prior to the release, the feedback was mostly consisting of feedback to not change the loot system, or wasted banter.

People told them not to do it... said they would leave the game... they did in fact leave the game. Are you attempting to say that people did not leave because of the ridicules system known as galactic command and its gearing fiasco?

 

Obviously if a company spends the majority of its resources on a project, they are not going to completely toss it out without giving it a try.

You must have not been around at the start of the game... it was already tried, it failed, they pulled it. It is literally part of the history of this game.

And with a few belated improvements (after belated constructive feedback from playerbase),

And a server merge, a huge drop in players and several months... don't forget to include that in your explanation.

 

the current system is fairly well received.

After months and months... it got nearly back to where 4.0 already had us.

Everyone can do what they enjoy and still have the potential to wear BIS.

LOL!!!

Dude... really?

[NuSeC]

 

In the case of 5.0 and the GC based gearing system here ... smart players quickly assessed that a combination of reusing their old BiS armor mods with set bonus in combination with new mods from the 5.0 gearing generation = gear good enough to get up and running in 5.0 and not sweat grinding for GC and GC crates.... but instead let them come as they do.. as you continue to play the game.

 

Nice and all but almost all the top raid guilds left because of grinding for nothing at the end of boss fights.

 

I was on a raid fight in master mode and everyone got green and blue drops. I mean lol!!! Really? HAHA!!!

 

That whole "never know what you get" or "it will be exciting" is neither in master mode boss fights or PVP where gear and skill is king.

 

I don't know what part of the game you play and I honestly don't care. But what I do know is that the changes made without listening to the players killed this game down to 2 servers in NA (both on the east coast for USA.) NO GAME I have played has saw that kind of fall-out from an update. If you want to show me one... I am all ears.

[olagatonjedi]

Oh? Was that it? Despite the hundreds of threads still available for view actually saying why?

Hundreds of threads supporting my previous post, yes.

 

I am a customer... I can and will place blame where it is due. On BW.

You certainly have that right, just as some people claim the earth is flat. Just dont be surprised if others look at you with a ****-eye or tilted head for your belief. We are all entitled to our opinion, but facts are facts, and they lead back to the playerbase choosing their own decisions to leave of their own free will after providing very little consfructive criticism.

 

People told them not to do it... said they would leave the game... they did in fact leave the game. Are you attempting to say that people did not leave because of the ridicules system known as galactic command and its gearing fiasco?

People left or never started playing the game because the initial loot system, so there is no difference with 5.0. Every player is looking for an MMO that fits their interests, playstyles, skill level, risk vs reward, playtime, etc. People can leave if they dont get what they want, but that doesnt mean a company did something wrong, it just means their vision for the game met the needs of player a, b and c, but not e, f and g.

 

 

You must have not been around at the start of the game... it was already tried, it failed, they pulled it. It is literally part of the history of this game.

And a server merge, a huge drop in players and several months... don't forget to include that in your explanation.

I dont believe ive ever heard anyone mention that, so first off id like to see your source. Secondly, there is no telling whether the same implementation was attempted either. Different teams were in place then and now, so very unlikely

 

 

After months and months... it got nearly back to where 4.0 already had us.

4.x was arguabky the worst gearing system in many peoples eyes, and you can see that feedback on these forums as well. It was extremely gated, compared to our current system.

 

LOL!!!

Dude... really?

Yes dude.....really.

[olagatonjedi]

Nice and all but almost all the top raid guilds left because of grinding for nothing at the end of boss fights.

You dont think residual effect of not having new raids had an effect on them leaving? With as much history as swtor has, you cant honestly believe any single change would be devastating enough for players to quit without considering that other easons may be involved. If not, you may be naive. Heck, you have to be naive to think most players leave any MMO because of just one change.

 

I was on a raid fight in master mode and everyone got green and blue drops. I mean lol!!! Really? HAHA!!!

Nobody got cxp and the potential for BIS gear? I killed trash in korriban on my maxxed out 70 and got a gold mainhand in my cxp crate. I dont think 4.x allowed that.

[NuSeC]

The "mass exodus" was due to many players unwilling to adapt to a dynamic game. And you cant fault BW for their lack of adaptability. The loot system was going to be released regardless, and instead of providing constructive feedback on ways to improve the 5.0 loot system prior to the release, the feedback was mostly consisting of feedback to not change the loot system, or wasted banter. Obviously if a company spends the majority of its resources on a project, they are not going to completely toss it out without giving it a try. And with a few belated improvements (after belated constructive feedback from playerbase), the current system is fairly well received. Everyone can do what they enjoy and still have the potential to wear BIS.

 

1) I can fault them for doing something again that has already failed ( in this very game). 2) Not listening to their base when informed of the issue. and 3) Slow to move on it when they realized they were wrong... again.

You are defending against history dude and history is not on your side.

 

You can use your "dynamic game" jazz all you want. It is a failure on their part for repeating past mistakes and not listening to their players.

 

Also... where do you get they did not get feedback from the players? There was LOTS of feedback. Then they released it and left it like that for MONTHS.

 

You keep saying how they made it and were going to release it no matter what. What you are not getting is that it was already tried and failed so OF COURSE the players were going to be negative about it. I mean what are you saying here? This is a "been there done that" situation.

 

Are you not faulting BW for trying something they already have and failed? Are you suggesting that players are at fault for BW releasing failed content? Are you saying that the experience from past game removals was irrelevant to these same players? I mean really? Is BW paying you to defend their mistakes and the fact that they do not learn from past mistakes?

[NuSeC]

Hundreds of threads supporting my previous post, yes.

 

LMBO!!! Um no.

You certainly have that right, just as some people claim the earth is flat.

And defend BW no matter what.

 

Just dont be surprised if others look at you with a ****-eye or tilted head for your belief. We are all entitled to our opinion, but facts are facts, and they lead back to the playerbase choosing their own decisions to leave of their own free will after providing very little consfructive criticism.

How about trying a system that was already used... being warned that it was already used and failed... then pushing it anyways despite knowing it has already failed before?

 

 

People left or never started playing the game because the initial loot system, so there is no difference with 5.0. Every player is looking for an MMO that fits their interests, playstyles, skill level, risk vs reward, playtime, etc. People can leave if they dont get what they want, but that doesnt mean a company did something wrong, it just means their vision for the game met the needs of player a, b and c, but not e, f and g.

What does this have to do with anything. I was saying people left because of the failed gearing system. It is that simple.

 

I dont believe ive ever heard anyone mention that, so first off id like to see your source. Secondly, there is no telling whether the same implementation was attempted either. Different teams were in place then and now, so very unlikely

 

And there we have it... you don't even know what you are arguing against. Like I said. There is no way you were around at the start to say the things you have said... no way.

[NuSeC]

 

 

Nobody got cxp and the potential for BIS gear? I killed trash in korriban on my maxxed out 70 and got a gold mainhand in my cxp crate. I dont think 4.x allowed that.

 

The glory of RNG... meanwhile... some can play all the way to 300 and get just 2 pieces... you are talking to one now.

 

Thanks for pointing out the flaw in the system you are defending.

[Damask_Rose]

instead of providing constructive feedback on ways to improve the 5.0 loot system prior to the release, the feedback was mostly consisting of feedback to not change the loot system, or wasted banter

 

Bioware kept the new gearing system under wraps as best they could before 5.0, so most players couldn't give constructive feedback prior to release. The beta testers did, and were ignored. Many of us tried to give feedback based on datamining, and were also ignored. While there was a lot of gnashing of teeth when it was finally unveiled, there was also plenty of constructive feedback as well, which again was ignored until subs started dropping in alarming numbers. Surely if a casual forum reader can sort the wheat from the chaff, Bioware can too, if they choose to.

[olagatonjedi]

1) I can fault them for doing something again that has already failed ( in this very game). 2) Not listening to their base when informed of the issue. and 3) Slow to move on it when they realized they were wrong... again.

You are defending against history dude and history is not on your side.

Where is the data showing it failed? They have kept it in place and have already discussed openly the possibility of future CR tiers as well. I presume their data shows its working much more effectively. And a few verbal players does not represent the entire playerbase, as we can see by the game still being in a healthy spot even as we speak. It has survived even if the loot system naysayers preached against it.

 

You can use your "dynamic game" jazz all you want. It is a failure on their part for repeating past mistakes and not listening to their players.

More often than not, the players lack the insight and understanding of why things are changed. Listening to players and implementing what players want are two different things, and players are often too full of themselves to realize their feedback isnt always the best thing for the overall game. Players generally live in a world of individual satisfaction.

 

The rest of you post ive already addressed.

[NuSeC]

Where is the data showing it failed? They have kept it in place and have already discussed openly the possibility of future CR tiers as well. I presume their data shows its working much more effectively. And a few verbal players does not represent the entire playerbase, as we can see by the game still being in a healthy spot even as we speak. It has survived even if the loot system naysayers preached against it.

... A few players you say. You have no idea how bad this game has failed over the years.

 

In contrast to your contrived information: This game went from over 100 NA servers down to just 2 on the east coast.

 

http://swtorhumanrelations.com/2011/12/12/swtor-server-list/

 

More often than not, the players lack the insight and understanding of why things are changed. Listening to players and implementing what players want are two different things, and players are often too full of themselves to realize their feedback isnt always the best thing for the overall game. Players generally live in a world of individual satisfaction.

 

The rest of you post ive already addressed.

 

 

Dude... the game lost thousands of subs because of failing to listen to their players. It is that simple. You ignoring reality does not change reality. Also... repeatedly blaming the players instead of BW for not listening.

[NuSeC]

Bioware kept the new gearing system under wraps as best they could before 5.0, so most players couldn't give constructive feedback prior to release. The beta testers did, and were ignored. Many of us tried to give feedback based on datamining, and were also ignored. While there was a lot of gnashing of teeth when it was finally unveiled, there was also plenty of constructive feedback as well, which again was ignored until subs started dropping in alarming numbers. Surely if a casual forum reader can sort the wheat from the chaff, Bioware can too, if they choose to.

 

He seems to only be guessing at what the issue is. Wanting to blame players.

[olagatonjedi]

Dude... the game lost thousands of subs because of failing to listen to their players. It is that simple. You ignoring reality does not change reality. Also... repeatedly blaming the players instead of BW for not listening.

You realize the game lost a lot more players between launch date and 5.x than post 5.x, right? You are ignoring a lot of history involved in this game and fabricating other parts.

Edited September 26, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[olagatonjedi]

Bioware kept the new gearing system under wraps as best they could before 5.0, so most players couldn't give constructive feedback prior to release. The beta testers did, and were ignored. Many of us tried to give feedback based on datamining, and were also ignored. While there was a lot of gnashing of teeth when it was finally unveiled, there was also plenty of constructive feedback as well, which again was ignored until subs started dropping in alarming numbers. Surely if a casual forum reader can sort the wheat from the chaff, Bioware can too, if they choose to.

You dont seem to be understanding what i said.

 

I see there was feedback by a limited population (minority).

The feedback largely consisted of "dont change the loot system" (non-constructive feedback)

The majority of feedback on possible improvements to the 5.x loot system was provided AFTER its release, so there is a valid reason it took a few updates to get it to a better place.

 

BW asked for feedback ON the system, but the players, stubborn as they are, did not use the testing period to provide constructive feedback. They used LIVE time to provide feedback when they finally pulled their heads out of the sand and realized it was implemented. That is the players fault for not getting over themselves.

[TUXs]

Oh? Was that it? Despite the hundreds of threads still available for view actually saying why?

 

I am a customer... I can and will place blame where it is due. On BW.

 

People told them not to do it... said they would leave the game... they did in fact leave the game. Are you attempting to say that people did not leave because of the ridicules system known as galactic command and its gearing fiasco?

 

You must have not been around at the start of the game... it was already tried, it failed, they pulled it. It is literally part of the history of this game.

And a server merge, a huge drop in players and several months... don't forget to include that in your explanation.

 

After months and months... it got nearly back to where 4.0 already had us.

 

LOL!!!

Dude... really?

Everything you've written is 100% correct. People can pretend you're wrong - but you aren't. Good post,

[kodrac]

Oh what a happy day. For olag. A new sparring partner to take the bait. It's Christmas in Ju... October.

[BogyOne]

You want Tier 5 stuff. It drops in difficult content. You need Tier 4 for that. You get it from easy content.

What are you lacking to get Tier 5?

Since you have everything you need to do the hardest content what will you do with Tier 5?

How 1% trillionaires will affect your game experience? You pay sub, find group of players you like and you experience everything the same way whether you have below 1 million or above 1 trillion credits.

 

They play their game - play yours.

[TUXs]

Oh what a happy day. For olag. A new sparring partner to take the bait. It's Christmas in Ju... October.

LOL! You make me laugh

[olagatonjedi]

Oh what a happy day. For olag. A new sparring partner to take the bait. It's Christmas in Ju... October.

Christmas? It pains me to see people in cruise mode.

[RikuvonDrake]

Making dramatic conclusions based on speculation, solid stuff forum warriors keep it up.

[Damask_Rose]

You dont seem to be understanding what i said.

 

I see there was feedback by a limited population (minority).

The feedback largely consisted of "dont change the loot system" (non-constructive feedback)

The majority of feedback on possible improvements to the 5.x loot system was provided AFTER its release, so there is a valid reason it took a few updates to get it to a better place.

 

BW asked for feedback ON the system, but the players, stubborn as they are, did not use the testing period to provide constructive feedback. They used LIVE time to provide feedback when they finally pulled their heads out of the sand and realized it was implemented. That is the players fault for not getting over themselves.

 

I read you correctly. And, as I said, only a minority of players could comment ON the system BEFORE it went live because only a handful of players were in the beta test for it. It wasn't an open beta. Of the handful of players that could comment, some have come forward after the NDA was lifted and said they gave Bioware a lot of feedback on problems with the system and provided constructive criticism which was ignored.

 

There was also a lot of feedback based on datamining BEFORE it went live, some constructive, some not. Bioware's response was to delete posts and threads rather than make improvements to the system. There was nothing further players could do prior to launch.

 

It was Bioware who had their heads in the sand because there was plenty of actionable feedback months before 5.0 went live. If a company chooses to ignore all feedback, even the good, detailed constructive kind, and go ahead with a change that they know will drive customers away, it is hardly their customers faults.

 

And fyi, all feedback is from a minority. It doesn't take a large sampling to achieve statistical significance.

[ThrakhathSpawn]

The only people who need the top tier of gear are those that run the top tier of content.

 

For PVP I would rather have stat pool selection and no gear.

 

For PVE I would rather have gear that is obtained through progression of difficulty.

 

I'm not sure how this is going to fall out, but it does seem the intent is to get people to buy cartel market items, sell those items, then buy the crafted gear. In turn those that can clear whatever obstacles there are to crafting end up with cartel market items from their in game activities.

[NuSeC]

The only people who need the top tier of gear are those that run the top tier of content.

 

For PVP I would rather have stat pool selection and no gear.

 

For PVE I would rather have gear that is obtained through progression of difficulty.

 

I'm not sure how this is going to fall out, but it does seem the intent is to get people to buy cartel market items, sell those items, then buy the crafted gear. In turn those that can clear whatever obstacles there are to crafting end up with cartel market items from their in game activities.

 

Until they get the gear adjusted in PVP... You should not have to raid to get the best PVP gear.