Thank You For Going Back To Sith Empire vs Galactic Republic!

[IoNonSoEVero]

It's not the same, because you can't be a Jedi and be part of your original faction, you're forced to do it from the perspective of the Alliance which is not what I want. I want to play it from either the perspective of the Empire or Republic. And perhaps it's not stated exactly they cease to be one, but it damn well feels like it. All of my characters feel exactly the same while being the Commander and there is so little if no difference in their personalities. On top of that, all the other people in the Alliance feel like copies of the same person as well, no depth or uniqueness. They all feel like interchangeable pieces of furniture, even the Commander. The only ones with some depth are Lana and Theron, which is why I say I felt like my characters were their companions instead of the other way around.

 

 

Those are the emotions I have been feeling for the last couple of years. Heck, I have stepped away from SWTOR for a while even multiple times because the KotFE and KotET was ruining the game I loved the most for me. Since Iokath that has been turning around and I finally started enjoying the game bit by bit again.

 

I don't resent anyone personally either, but I do resent the fact that people are calling Bioware to stick to the Alliance narrative because that is what had ruined SWTOR for me. Someone will always be displeased, it's been me for the last couple of years and now sadly it's you, and I am sorry to hear that.

 

However, not meaning this as a personal attack or attack on anyone but the "I am forced to quit the game" line was used by a several people I still see posting today during the server merge debates, who funnily enough happen to be the same people protesting the return to Empire vs Republic. People shouted and swore they'd never touch the game if it happened, protested vehemently against it and yet they're the ones who are still posting and seemingly playing the game today. They said that if the server merges happened it would be the nail in the coffin for them and yet... the coffin wasn't closed entirely it seems. Perhaps it appears worse to you than it actually is? You haven't even given the narrative a try, we know so little about it and already you dismiss it. Perhaps you'll like it? Perhaps it will be like with the server merges, they appeared scarier than they in fact were?

 

The complaints people had about the server mergers, including harassment of RPers, more ninjaing, more bad behavior, loss of names and problems with strongholds, have actually come to fruition for many people. The RP community on Star Forge is not as it was on Ebon Hawk. People are currently locked out of buying the new stronghold thanks to the mess created with merging. It wasn't false threats. People have left the game over them.

 

A merger actually won't harm me right now, as I don't have a lot of characters and I'm not at the SH cap. But I can still protest it because I feel it would be detrimental overall.

 

As for the narrative, we know that it's "Imps attack a Jed base; Pubs defend it," so they're back to making one faction the aggressive bad guy. There has been no option given to stay with the Alliance, and we're apparently being forced back into a faction whether we like it or not. Those things tell me I'm likely not going to like where things are going.

 

I will be keeping an eye on YouTube and if the story isn't a character-breaking trainwreck, I will give it a try. People are allowed to change their mind. But I have the right to say right now that this appears to be game-ending for me.

[Ylliarus]

The complaints people had about the server mergers, including harassment of RPers, more ninjaing, more bad behavior, loss of names and problems with strongholds, have actually come to fruition for many people. The RP community on Star Forge is not as it was on Ebon Hawk. People are currently locked out of buying the new stronghold thanks to the mess created with merging. It wasn't false threats. People have left the game over them.

 

A merger actually won't harm me right now, as I don't have a lot of characters and I'm not at the SH cap. But I can still protest it because I feel it would be detrimental overall.

 

As for the narrative, we know that it's "Imps attack a Jed base; Pubs defend it," so they're back to making one faction the aggressive bad guy. There has been no option given to stay with the Alliance, and we're apparently being forced back into a faction whether we like it or not. Those things tell me I'm likely not going to like where things are going.

 

I will be keeping an eye on YouTube and if the story isn't a character-breaking trainwreck, I will give it a try. People are allowed to change their mind. But I have the right to say right now that this appears to be game-ending for me.

 

You absolutely have the right to! But similarly I have the right to hope that you'll come to like the story nonetheless and will change your mind and will stay with the game you have loved for so long and of course hope that Bioware will think of the group of people that liked the Alliance and want to remain part of it. I repeat, we still don't know too much about it and for all we know they're keeping the choices a surprise!

Edited September 8, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Goreshaga]

It actually *is* a vs. thing in a way. Returning to the conflict you want is going to drive me from the game, and others as well. I don't resent anyone personally, but I do resent that the protestations of others got KOTET cut to two seasons and have returned the game to something I really dislike.

That's exactly my issue here.

I don't think i'd be as displeased to go back to Imp vs Pub if the whole KOTFEET story was delivered as it was first intended, because we would've had the full story, whith probably all the LIs returning in chapters instead of half assed 2 min alerts that are actually meaningless as these companions that are for some characters their wives/husbands are too late to the party and have absolutely not part to play anymore.

I loved Jorgan's and Torian's reunions with my RT and BH, but i really did not like Vector's with my IA (the reunion was moving and sweet but held 0 meaning), though i liked the romance, to the point i'll probably just HC that he died with the Killiks that were used as cannon fodder by the Empire, prompting my IA to definitively turn her back on the Empire to never, ever come back to them after all they put her trough.

 

Here, i just feel like i was robbed from half the content of a storyline i enjoyed to go back to something i don't want...

That's exactly how i felt when Stargate Atlantis was cancelled to bring Universe instead, that's how i felt when Dark Angel was cancelled to put another show whose name i forgot instead, and both replacement shows bombed and got cancelled too pretty fast.

 

Those are the emotions I have been feeling for the last couple of years. Heck, I have stepped away from SWTOR for a while even multiple times because the KotFE and KotET was ruining the game I loved the most for me. Since Iokath that has been turning around and I finally started enjoying the game bit by bit again.

The difference here is that the vanilla story was already done long before KOTFE came out, it's not like they cut half of chapter 2 and half of chapter 3, putting the remaining parts together the best they could to have something roughly coherent just to push KOTFE earlier than it should've been.

Vanilla story was fully done, same goes for Illum, Makeb, Oricon, SoR and Ziost before KOTFE came out.

[Ardrossan]

You know what would make a lot more sense than the return of the Pub vs. Imp war given what’s happened in the game and what we know of the future? The Republic and Sith Empire breaking up into micro states and fighting their neighbors (be they Sith or Republic) for control of key resources. Without the Eternal Fleet The Alliance would just be one more of those micro states that needs resources and has to deal with its neighbors; either as allies or enemies.

 

If it were me, this would be a prime time to bring back in the Rift Alliance from the Counselor’s story as the Republic successor state closest to Eternal Alliance/Empire Territory and then a fitting Imperial Remnant state (one of many) as another neighbor. The Rift Alliance and Imp Remnant are after each other’s resources and you can either ally with one or the other, try to work for peace with both or attack them both.

 

This is exactly what I want.

 

Though, as far as the Rift Alliance goes [boy that name was dumb], it might be a bit tricky if Tai's been written out of the game over a choice in KoTFE.

[Ylliarus]

You know what would make a lot more sense than the return of the Pub vs. Imp war given what’s happened in the game and what we know of the future? The Republic and Sith Empire breaking up into micro states and fighting their neighbors (be they Sith or Republic) for control of key resources.

 

I'd dig that concept a lot to be honest. I would be briefly sad about the Sith Empire fracturing because Empire Forever, but seeing like an Imperial Civil War would be epic and amazing. And a separatist crisis for the Republic. I really would love to see a story like that happen, especially if we could play through it as part of our original factions.

 

Sadly, Bioware likely doesn't have the funds and resources for such a big storyline. As much as I'd love it, it likely won't happen.

[Goreshaga]

You absolutely have the right to! But similarly I have the right to hope that you'll come to like the story nonetheless and will change your mind and will stay with the game you have loved for so long and of course hope that Bioware will think of the group of people that liked the Alliance and want to remain part of it. I repeat, we still don't know too much about it and for all we know they're keeping the choices a surprise!

Hm, honnestly i'll give the story a try on one of my unimportant toons to see how it goes, but it is very clear to me that if the narrative forces my main character who is my canon Commander back to being a Jedi Master working under the Council for a rotten Republic, i'm done.

She can work with the Republic if it's the lesser of 2 evils, but certainly not go back to being a Jedi, she not one anymore. She still wants to fight to help people and try to bring peace to the Galaxy, but not as a Jedi, as the leader of an Alliance that is willing to show both factions that they could cohexist in peace if they really tried (that can fail, i'm ok with that, but not having the possibility is not an option for that particular character, and she's the only one that trully matters to me).

So if i can't play this character anymore, i'll just stop playing after Nathema and HC whatever i want about what she'll do afterwards.

 

Same holds true for my second main who is a SW romancing Arcann, he just doesn't fit in the Empire, and she'd never go back to an Empire that betrayed her over and over again anyways.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Goreshaga

[ImmortalLowlife]

I actually liked the "concept" of the alliance, and feel the "execution" was cut short because some players complained loudly. And now I'll be forced to go back to being either pub or imp do-boy. yay (*extremely sarcastic voice)

 

But I'll give the devs a chance to impress me. I'll go into 5.10 with an open mind. But like others have mentioned..... while I don't mind being "cool" with the pub or imp faction.... I'd rather have the option to rebuild my alliance forces. (Especially on my gunslinger who I view as a Talon Karde type, and my Knight who married a Sith) I kept all that money we stole from Arcan's treasury. So we should have plenty to rebuild our fleet.

Edited September 9, 2018 by ImmortalLowlife

[Kihtracinya]

I want to thank the developers over at Bioware from the bottom of my heart that we are hopefully finally done for good with this entire "Eternal Alliance". Throughout KotFE and KotET I had to weather through a story concept that I absolutely hated, because I won't hide that I hate every single thing about the Alliance, the Outlander and the entire Commander thing. I never wanted that and yet the plot was forced upon me with no choice to return to my original factions, which was what I yearned for so badly. My enjoyment of the story and game was severely hampered because of that, I kept making new characters starting from level 1 because I preferred playing the class stories over and over again rather than have to touch KotFE and KotET once more. I always stopped at Ziost because that was the last epic story before the entire Zakuul and Alliance thing.

 

But now, seemingly, you have finally put an end to that suffering. Finally we are moving away from the incredibly bland "Eternal Alliance" and we will return to what I consider to be the core of SWTOR storytelling: Empire vs Republic, Jedi vs Sith.

 

You've very well characterized MY experience too. I have made so many toons from level 1 for... what, it's been almost two years now?...so long because I can't stand the

character-breaking trainwreck

that KOTFE has been. I took 4 insta60s through and one for the dvl summer event. I couldn't finish the event because I couldn't stand it anymore. I still have not finished KOTFE much less KOTET. Even if the game is going to Pub/Imp again, I don't want to have to take my toons through Kotfe spending hours trying to grind past it and lose Everything I had worked for in vanilla. I don't want to lose my comps and have to get them back; broken, 5 years apart, and liable to die. I don't want my comps to stop talking to me. I really don't think even going back to pub/imp will work if they don't have a workaround to stay clear of the SWTOR breaking trainwreck called KOTFE.

[casirabit]

From my years on these forums I have learned to not take "I am going to quit SWTOR if X or Y happens" all too seriously anymore

 

Nonetheless, as I have said before multiple times, I do agree that those who want to play as part of the Alliance should have that choice. I will keep supporting that notion for as long as it doesn't come to overshadow my own desire to return to my original faction and to have that choice.

 

I know quite a bit of people who left SWTOR because of the Alliance and because it veered away from Empire vs Republic. I know for a fact that they'll return if that narrative returns again, so if Bioware doesn't cater to those that want to stick with the Alliance, those who'll leave will be supplemented by those that will return. Perhaps Bioware thinks along the same lines, I agree, it is a huge shame if the narrative pushes away people, but at the same time I know people will return because of it.

 

Two years ago it might have been different than it is right now. While losing subs always hurts, losing more right now is something I don't think SWTOR can afford to do right now. People have left and there could be more leaving and the problem with more leaving, no one can guarantee there will be any more coming and trying the new expansion and the more we continue to lose the worse it will be for the funds that keep the lights on so it would be better if they work something out so those that want to return to the Republic and Empire can and then something to those that don't especially for those that have made choices not to return to their factions. Of course they can ignore all this and hope that people don't leave but I don't think that is a very good idea.

[MandFlurry]

The complaints people had about the server mergers, including harassment of RPers, more ninjaing, more bad behavior, loss of names and problems with strongholds, have actually come to fruition for many people. The RP community on Star Forge is not as it was on Ebon Hawk. People are currently locked out of buying the new stronghold thanks to the mess created with merging. It wasn't false threats. People have left the game over them.

 

A merger actually won't harm me right now, as I don't have a lot of characters and I'm not at the SH cap. But I can still protest it because I feel it would be detrimental overall.

 

As for the narrative, we know that it's "Imps attack a Jed base; Pubs defend it," so they're back to making one faction the aggressive bad guy. There has been no option given to stay with the Alliance, and we're apparently being forced back into a faction whether we like it or not. Those things tell me I'm likely not going to like where things are going.

 

I will be keeping an eye on YouTube and if the story isn't a character-breaking trainwreck, I will give it a try. People are allowed to change their mind. But I have the right to say right now that this appears to be game-ending for me.

 

Yeah, i hear what ur saying on that man. If i can't be in an Alliance than the game can almost go to hell for all i care. I have other games i can play, and i have a life to. About 50% of people do Not want the old status quo, but they are the most vocal, when it comes to story, or we may think that?

 

When the Devs have put this much into a 3rd faction, they had better expect for people not to like the return to the old Ball and Chain kind of stories of the almost 40+ years of Star Wars.

[Ylliarus]

I actually liked the "concept" of the alliance, and feel the "execution" was cut short because some players complained loudly. And now I'll be forced to go back to being either pub or imp do-boy. yay (*extremely sarcastic voice).

 

It's not "some players complained loudly", there has been a significant group of players who have been complaining about the Alliance narrative and part of them even left SWTOR over it, waiting to come back when the plot returns to what they like. Don't claim to be a majority when there is no proof you actually are one.

 

If you think Bioware would change the course of the narrative because of "some players complaining loudly" then you are gravely mistaken. They have been receiving tons of feedback that called for a return to the base game narrative and to get the choice to return to our factions.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Ylliarus]

Yeah, i hear what ur saying on that man. If i can't be in an Alliance than the game can almost go to hell for all i care. I have other games i can play, and i have a life to. About 50% of people do Not want the old status quo, but they are the most vocal, when it comes to story, or we may think that?

 

When the Devs have put this much into a 3rd faction, they had better expect for people not to like the return to the old Ball and Chain kind of stories of the almost 40+ years of Star Wars.

 

I am not meaning to claim a majority or put anyone else in a minority of course, but the choice to return to the base game Swtor narrative didn't happen because a few vocal people over the forums wanted it. From what I have seen and heard the developers had been receiving tons of feedback calling for a return to the Empire vs Republic narrative and the ability to return to our original factions. I have seen that feedback on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, the forums, Discord, the Enjin forums for those that roleplay... It wasn't just a few vocal voices, it was a significant group of people.

 

You've very well characterized MY experience too. I have made so many toons from level 1 for... what, it's been almost two years now?...so long because I can't stand the that KOTFE has been. I took 4 insta60s through and one for the dvl summer event. I couldn't finish the event because I couldn't stand it anymore. I still have not finished KOTFE much less KOTET. Even if the game is going to Pub/Imp again, I don't want to have to take my toons through Kotfe spending hours trying to grind past it and lose Everything I had worked for in vanilla. I don't want to lose my comps and have to get them back; broken, 5 years apart, and liable to die. I don't want my comps to stop talking to me. I really don't think even going back to pub/imp will work if they don't have a workaround to stay clear of the SWTOR breaking trainwreck called KOTFE.

 

I get you, I get you so well, it's been exactly that for me as well especially because I roleplayed a Sith Lord for many years that was fanatically devoted to the Sith Empire, seeing it as the manifestation of the Dark Side's will in the galaxy. Roleplay and the ingame story are of course seperated because in roleplay you create stories yourself with your rp guild or other guilds, but nonetheless I played Darth Nox as an Imperial loyalist as well. The fact he was forced to remain separated from the Empire completely ruined my enjoyment of playing him so I made a new Sith Inquisitor and didn't move her beyond KotFE and KotET, because I feared the latest two expansions would ruin her too for me.

 

Tbh, I have only played through KotFE and KotET twice. One time on my main, my first Darth Nox, which I severely regret now because it ruined him for me (the Theron romance is the sole point of light in it). The second time was on my Sith Warrior for the DvL event and it left the same distaste in my mouth as it had done the first time. From then on I came to hate the entire concept of the Alliance passionately because it managed to ruin my second character for me, one I had come to really love and like throughout the class story and base game content. Not even Quinn's return and resuming that romance could fix anything KotFE and KotET devastated.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Viperswhip]

It's not "some players complained loudly", there has been a significant group of players who have been complaining about the Alliance narrative and part of them even left SWTOR over it, waiting to come back when the plot returns to what they like. Don't claim to be a majority when there is no proof you actually are one.

 

If you think Bioware would change the course of the narrative because of "some players complaining loudly" then you are gravely mistaken. They have been receiving tons of feedback that called for a return to the base game narrative and to get the choice to return to our factions.

 

A lot of the complaints about the story were it's single focus, versus, say the more diverse class stories, this has been a complaint for a long time, since Makeb basically, and there is a lack of replayability there, some companions not returning in a timely fashion and a lot of changes overall, like to companions, now they are basically all the same, blah, blah.

 

I understand that the story may not be for everyone, I found it engaging enough, it was kind of mass effecty in the build the alliance kind of way, which is fine, but familiar. The main problem is that the story makes very little sense for a non jedi/sith, and makes the most sense with a jedi knight or consular, then Sith, I have ZERO desire to play any of that content with any other class. But I will eventually replay it with all my jedi and sith characters.

[Yeldah_]

I hope that with the return to an Empire vs Republic story we also get faction vs faction PVP back too. By this I refer to the maps where the faction divide actually matters (Novare Coast, Voidstar, Alderaan Civil War, Ancient Hypergate.

Don’t see much harm in having these four maps as Republic vs Empire while leaving the other eleven cross faction.

[Mournblood]

I hope that with the return to an Empire vs Republic story we also get faction vs faction PVP back too. By this I refer to the maps where the faction divide actually matters (Novare Coast, Voidstar, Alderaan Civil War, Ancient Hypergate.

Don’t see much harm in having these four maps as Republic vs Empire while leaving the other eleven cross faction.

 

The harm is that the new matchmaking system can't be supported without the player density that cross-faction WZs provide. If we go back to factional queues, we lose matchmaking. If we lose matchmaking, WZs become lopsided matches again that are neither fair nor fun for all the participants. If WZs regress, we'll lose players. If we lose players, queues will get longer. If queues get longer, more players will find something else to do with their time rather than wait for queue pops. And so on.

 

In summary, the factional WZ ship has sailed and it's not coming back.

[IoNonSoEVero]

A lot of the complaints about the story were it's single focus, versus, say the more diverse class stories, this has been a complaint for a long time, since Makeb basically, and there is a lack of replayability there, some companions not returning in a timely fashion and a lot of changes overall, like to companions, now they are basically all the same, blah, blah.

 

I understand that the story may not be for everyone, I found it engaging enough, it was kind of mass effecty in the build the alliance kind of way, which is fine, but familiar. The main problem is that the story makes very little sense for a non jedi/sith, and makes the most sense with a jedi knight or consular, then Sith, I have ZERO desire to play any of that content with any other class. But I will eventually replay it with all my jedi and sith characters.

 

I think that's an important point. Complaints about KOTFE/KOTET were not all of the "I hate the Alliance! IMPS VS PUBS 4EVA!!!!!" variety. Some of the concerns raised were:

 

1. Story didn't make (as) much sense for non Force users

2. Playing full chapters with companions people disliked, like Kaliyo

3. The same story for every single class

4. No open world/planetary quests or exploration

5. Dislike/wishes to kill certain companions

 

None of those are really about the Alliance, and chopping KOTFE/ET from three full seasons to two years with a truncated KOTET did nothing to make any of these things better. It just served to ruin things for people who enjoyed the story and give those who didn't more fodder to complain.

 

Specifically, it's very badly affected companions. The returns WERE originally mapped out in chapters apparently; with the cut second season and axed third season they had to figure out new ways to bring them back...enter the two minute cut scenes with companions excluded from the main story.

 

And enough people wanted to kill certain companions that they added it, and that's been awesome for companions, hasn't it? If you romanced a killable companion they've become a brick. If your companion isn't killable yet you wonder if it's even worth it getting attached to them since they'll just be excised from the story later.

 

People didn't like the story...well, it's so much better now and makes ever so much more sense now that it's been sliced and diced from 48 chapters down to 25, amirite?

 

And those who wanted multiplayer content, axing KOTET's third season gave you a ton of that, didn't it?

 

Fan feedback has done bad things to this game in some cases, with the examples above. The Monkey's Paw is referenced a lot and I think it's valid...fans can loudly say they hate something and want it gone, but what the devs provide when they fulfill that wish might be a thousand times worse.

Edited September 11, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Yeldah_]

If we go back to factional queues, we lose matchmaking.

 

I would contest that matchmaking even exists at present. Just the other day I had a 4v4 arena where my team was given two healers and two damage specs. The other team was given three damage specs and one tank. How is that match making? What’s more this is just one example, from what I have seen, matches are no more balanced than they were prior to cross faction. Truly balanced games are like one in twenty. Even now with this so called “matchmaking,” one team usually steamrolls the other with ease.

[Falensawino]

Alliance period in story is a pretty forgettable period in SWTOR history. I'll admit I don't have a single toon with Iokath dailies unlocked. How much Iokath weekly CXP have I missed because I won't run toons through another "Alliance" story. I don't like any of my toons enough to have them be supreme leader of a faction. Edited September 12, 2018 by Falensawino

[ImmortalLowlife]

It's not "some players complained loudly", there has been a significant group of players who have been complaining about the Alliance narrative and part of them even left SWTOR over it, waiting to come back when the plot returns to what they like. Don't claim to be a majority when there is no proof you actually are one.

 

If you think Bioware would change the course of the narrative because of "some players complaining loudly" then you are gravely mistaken. They have been receiving tons of feedback that called for a return to the base game narrative and to get the choice to return to our factions.

 

Ok.... first off, I never claimed to be a "majority" of anything, and that's exactly why they made the changes because "some players complained loudly". I say "some" because even tho we don't know the exact number of complainers, I can 100% guarantee it wasn't "ALL" the players. And I don't know your internet habits, but on the sites and forums "I" frequent, the concerns I saw the most were the ones similar to what IoNon said here...

 

I think that's an important point. Complaints about KOTFE/KOTET were not all of the "I hate the Alliance! IMPS VS PUBS 4EVA!!!!!" variety. Some of the concerns raised were:

 

1. Story didn't make (as) much sense for non Force users

2. Playing full chapters with companions people disliked, like Kaliyo

3. The same story for every single class

4. No open world/planetary quests or exploration

5. Dislike/wishes to kill certain companions

 

None of those are really about the Alliance, and chopping KOTFE/ET from three full seasons to two years with a truncated KOTET did nothing to make any of these things better. It just served to ruin things for people who enjoyed the story and give those who didn't more fodder to complain.

 

Specifically, it's very badly affected companions. The returns WERE originally mapped out in chapters apparently; with the cut second season and axed third season they had to figure out new ways to bring them back...enter the two minute cut scenes with companions excluded from the main story.

 

And enough people wanted to kill certain companions that they added it, and that's been awesome for companions, hasn't it? If you romanced a killable companion they've become a brick. If your companion isn't killable yet you wonder if it's even worth it getting attached to them since they'll just be excised from the story later.

 

People didn't like the story...well, it's so much better now and makes ever so much more sense now that it's been sliced and diced from 48 chapters down to 25, amirite?

 

And those who wanted multiplayer content, axing KOTET's third season gave you a ton of that, didn't it?

 

Fan feedback has done bad things to this game in some cases, with the examples above. The Monkey's Paw is referenced a lot and I think it's valid...fans can loudly say they hate something and want it gone, but what the devs provide when they fulfill that wish might be a thousand times worse.

 

So please don't assign claims to me I never made. I try to always consider the opinions of others on here with an open mind, and you'll never hear me claim to be the "majority" of anything.

[Ylliarus]

Ok.... first off, I never claimed to be a "majority" of anything, and that's exactly why they made the changes because "some players complained loudly". I say "some" because even tho we don't know the exact number of complainers, I can 100% guarantee it wasn't "ALL" the players.

 

Oh no, I hear you there, don't worry. Perhaps my post was a bit blunt there so my apologies!

 

And I don't know your internet habits, but on the sites and forums "I" frequent, the concerns I saw the most were the ones similar to what IoNon said here...

 

I understand what you're saying but I'd still be careful when trying to deduce anything solid from that. For example, on these forums you have a certain group of people that are the active forum posters and responders. If you look at the threads here over a longer period of times you'll usually see the same names pop up who are active. Could one conclude then that that's it? That's the entire playerbase? Not at all!

 

As I said before, I am the moderator of a Discord server that focuses on organising RP around the Spheres of Influence of the Sith Empire. Various Imperial/Sith RP guilds on Darth Malgus have joined up with the initiative and we number about 200+ members there at the moment (I can send you a link if you'd like to verify anything yourself). If you look at the way various topics regarding SWTOR are discussed there the opinions are a world apart from the general mentality that the forums posters over here seem to have. The line "yeah, I don't really look at the forums anymore" is often uttered in that Discord. So a huge portion of opinions regarding the game that are discussed in that Discord server rarely reach these forums.

 

What am I trying to say with this? While indeed it is the general consensus of players that KotFE and KotET had a lot of potential that wasn't realised, it seems that the people that post on the forums generally speaking have a positive attitude towards the concept of the Alliance. The same however is completely untrue for the Spheres of Influence Discord Server, where people have expressed anything but positive opinions about the Alliance and the KotFE/KotET narrative (not all of them of course, but definitely a vast majority from what I have observed as a moderator there). This means that it all depends which group of people you ask their opinion on the Alliance of. The roleplayers part of the Spheres of Influence discord seem to hate the fact the narrative was steered away from Empire vs Republic, while the people posting here want something else from the story and are in favour of the concept of the Eternal Alliance and against returning to Empire vs Republic.

 

What conclusion can we draw from this then about "And I don't know your internet habits, but on the sites and forums "I" frequent, the concerns I saw the most were the ones similar to what IoNon said here..."? That it all depends on where you go looking for opinions. One site may have a community that is negative about returning to the Empire vs Republic narrative, the other will heavily applaud it and finally be excited for future story content once more. So... the places that *I* frequent in regards to SWTOR seem to align much more with my own thoughts about the Alliance and KotFE/KotET

Edited September 12, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Wagerbane]

I want to thank the developers over at Bioware from the bottom of my heart that we are hopefully finally done for good with this entire "Eternal Alliance". Throughout KotFE and KotET I had to weather through a story concept that I absolutely hated, because I won't hide that I hate every single thing about the Alliance, the Outlander and the entire Commander thing. I never wanted that and yet the plot was forced upon me with no choice to return to my original factions, which was what I yearned for so badly. My enjoyment of the story and game was severely hampered because of that, I kept making new characters starting from level 1 because I preferred playing the class stories over and over again rather than have to touch KotFE and KotET once more. I always stopped at Ziost because that was the last epic story before the entire Zakuul and Alliance thing.

 

But now, seemingly, you have finally put an end to that suffering. Finally we are moving away from the incredibly bland "Eternal Alliance" and we will return to what I consider to be the core of SWTOR storytelling: Empire vs Republic, Jedi vs Sith. Sure, third parties like the Hutt Cartel or Zakuul are interesting, but the main story of this game is the epic conflict between the Sith and the Jedi. When that was taken away with Zakuul and the Alliance, I felt like a vital and intricate part of SWTOR was ripped away. The game was no longer the same for me, the setting had become alien and a shadow of its former self. But now you are finally mending this and I look forward to "Jedi Under Siege" with incredible excitement!

 

Once more I want to stress how important it is that you will let us return fully to our original factions. If we want to abandon the Alliance completely and have nothing to do with it anymore, please, I beg you, give us that choice. Let me be Darth Nox again, let me be the Empire's Wrath. I don't want my characters to be the Outlander or Commander, I want to be my class, I want to be what I forged my characters to be throughout the base game and story. Please, don't force us to remain in the Alliance, please...

 

 

Galactic Republic VS Sith Empire is all ways inside the game is still here and what are you talking about. You don't have play the Eternal Alliance. Eternal Alliance is part of the stories now would allow people earn companions in 5 years in the future. Removing Eternal Alliance out of this game will be mistake and will cause more people to leave the game. Removing companions modify status was one of those why players leave the game. Messing with customers investment becomes wasted their time if things taking away can cause people leaving the game.

 

Game needs a option for reset button for reset Eternal Alliance back before you discover it if you wanted the same character to play it all over again for fresh new start but not going through chapters. Yo don't have to make a new character to play Eternal Alliance as you think. Eternal Alliance star fortress have elevator bug that cause companions disappear and have to keep summon companion out after use the star fortress elevators. Removing Eternal Alliance is a big mistake and will be your fault because you think you can speak up for people are playing Eternal Alliance. People will haunted you for the cause.

[Ylliarus]

Galactic Republic VS Sith Empire is all ways inside the game is still here and what are you talking about. You don't have play the Eternal Alliance. Eternal Alliance is part of the stories now would allow people earn companions in 5 years in the future. Removing Eternal Alliance out of this game will be mistake and will cause more people to leave the game. Removing companions modify status was one of those why players leave the game. Messing with customers investment becomes wasted their time if things taking away can cause people leaving the game.

 

Game needs a option for reset button for reset Eternal Alliance back before you discover it if you wanted the same character to play it all over again for fresh new start but not going through chapters. Yo don't have to make a new character to play Eternal Alliance as you think. Eternal Alliance star fortress have elevator bug that cause companions disappear and have to keep summon companion out after use the star fortress elevators. Removing Eternal Alliance is a big mistake and will be your fault because you think you can speak up for people are playing Eternal Alliance. People will haunted you for the cause.

 

Alright, let's calm down a bit, hmm? I am fairly sure no one is going to die because SWTOR went back to the Empire vs Republic narrative, this is just a game (one that we all passionately love, true).

 

Furthermore, I am fairly sure I am not the one to blame for Bioware's decision to go back to the Empire vs Republic narrative. If the developers made such a decision it's because they received enough feedback from a sufficiently large enough group of players calling for a return to that story. Bioware wouldn't make such a big decision just because a few players asked for it, the group wanting the Empire vs Republic narrative back must be sufficiently large enough that the developers decided to do it.

 

On top of that; basically you're saying that people like me shouldn't get to enjoy new story content and can only stick to the old ones because we don't like the Alliance and want to go back to our original factions? How would you feel if I told you that you shouldn't get new story content and can only play KotFE and KotET because you don't want to go back to the Empire vs Republic narrative? I am all for a compromise where everyone gets what they want but if you're going to deal in absolutes then so I am. I am passionate about what I want.

 

Lastly, if indeed people will leave because of a return to the Empire vs Republic narrative, then I can guarantee you that for every single person that leaves, 1 will return because the story is back with the Empire vs Republic conflict. So many people I knew and were passionate about the game left because of the Eternal Alliance storyline and KotFE and KotET. They left because the story seperated them from their original factions and didn't allow them to return. I know that those people will return once the story gets back to Empire vs Republic, they always said they would once that happened. So I'm sorry for those that will be leaving, but I am reassured by the fact that those that left in the past will return to fill up the few holes that will be left.

[Goreshaga]

On top of that; basically you're saying that people like me shouldn't get to enjoy new story content and can only stick to the old ones because we don't like the Alliance and want to go back to our original factions? How would you feel if I told you that you shouldn't get new story content and can only play KotFE and KotET because you don't want to go back to the Empire vs Republic narrative? I am all for a compromise where everyone gets what they want but if you're going to deal in absolutes then so I am. I am passionate about what I want.

Fact is that the vanilla story was not cut short to give the KOTFEET storyline.

But, because people shouted out loud for a return to Pub vs Imp BEFORE the KOTFEET storyline was fully done, the story was cut short for people who actually enjoyed it as well (that's excatly the same as people demanding a kill option on their companions, actually killing them too for people who wanted to keep them), and it also ruined what should've been meaningfull companions returns, leaving very distastefull and meanigless reunions, not to mention that it left everyone with barely new content for a long time.

 

So it's pretty clear here that a group of people idea of what is enjoyable is ruining something that another group of people liked. Why should their idea of what is fun be more important than anyone else's idea of fun ?

Had these people just wated for the storyline to be over or just asked for a return to Imp vs Pub once this story is fully done, i'd not be particularly more thrilled to go back to that narrative than i currently am, but at the very least i'd not feel like a story i like was all taken away from me just to please someone else.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Goreshaga

[IoNonSoEVero]

Fact is that the vanilla story was not cut short to give the KOTFEET storyline.

But, because people shouted out loud for a return to Pub vs Imp BEFORE the KOTFEET storyline was fully done, the story was cut short for people who actually enjoyed it as well (that's excatly the same as people demanding a kill option on their companions, actually killing them too for people who wanted to keep them), and it also ruined what should've been meaningfull companions returns, leaving very distastefull and meanigless reunions, not to mention that it left everyone with barely new content for a long time.

 

So it's pretty clear here that a group of people idea of what is enjoyable is ruining something that another group of people liked. Why should their idea of what is fun be more important than anyone else's idea of fun ?

Had these people just wated for the storyline to be over or just asked for a return to Imp vs Pub once this story is fully done, i'd not be particularly more thrilled to go back to that narrative than i currently am, but at the very least i'd not feel like a story i like was all taken away from me just to please someone else.

 

I feel like this can't be said enough. As happy as some people might be about Imps vs. Pubs, before one says that "fan feedback" caused it - that "fan feedback" ruined things for the rest of us that did enjoy KOTFE/KOTET. We weren't even allowed to finish that story properly and let it run its course. We got a slapdash, slice and diced version because some people screamed loud enough.

 

And it actually did ruin things by cutting the chapters in half, bricking companions people cared about and turning companion returns from something substantial to something completely meaningless.

 

But I certainly hope it's been worth it, eh? The last two years have just been a font of content and not having companions you like get any dialogue or meaningful scenes has been awesome, hasn't it? I especially like worrying that every patch is going to drop the hammer forever on companions i care about because someone else shouted about them. /sarcasm

[Ylliarus]

Fact is that the vanilla story was not cut short to give the KOTFEET storyline.

But, because people shouted out loud for a return to Pub vs Imp BEFORE the KOTFEET storyline was fully done, the story was cut short for people who actually enjoyed it as well (that's excatly the same as people demanding a kill option on their companions, actually killing them too for people who wanted to keep them), and it also ruined what should've been meaningfull companions returns, leaving very distastefull and meanigless reunions, not to mention that it left everyone with barely new content for a long time.

 

So it's pretty clear here that a group of people idea of what is enjoyable is ruining something that another group of people liked. Why should their idea of what is fun be more important than anyone else's idea of fun ?

Had these people just wated for the storyline to be over or just asked for a return to Imp vs Pub once this story is fully done, i'd not be particularly more thrilled to go back to that narrative than i currently am, but at the very least i'd not feel like a story i like was all taken away from me just to please someone else.

 

I get you, I definitely do. Personally I think KotFE and KotET should actually never have happened and that the developers made a gigantic mistake by going down that way with the story, but what's done is done. I do agree that the devs should have been given the opportunity to finish the story properly and not rush it once they started with it. But that only reaffirms to me that KotFE and KotET should not have happened in the first place.

 

There is however one thing that you do need to recognise. Bioware doesn't listen just to loud voices, they listen to large groups of players. When they make a decision they don't just make it on the base of what they see being shouted on the forums the loudest, they carefully weigh the pros and cons of everything before making a final call. That means that when they made the decision to kill companion X or companion Y, they had received enough feedback from a sufficiently large enough group of players that warranted making such a decision. The same has happened with the choice of going back to the Empire vs Republic narrative, the group that wanted the return of that narrative must have been sufficiently large enough and after carefully weighing the options they decided the pros for a return to the Empire vs Republic narrative must have outweighed the cons. That is basic decision-making within a company like Bioware.

 

I know it's not fun and I know it's not fair, but it is the truth of things. I know that passion can often blind people to reason, but if you look at it from such a point of view the conclusion can only be that Bioware deemed that a return to the Empire vs Republic narrative must have more pros than it has cons, than staying with the Alliance narrative. Keep in mind that we only have a fraction of the data, feedback and information that Bioware has about things that people like or would want to see ingame. We don't see the full picture and likely never will.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Ylliarus