SWTOR finally going P2W

[Andryah]

Penny Ann just smoked the whole P2W argument (AGAIN). I was tempted to post, but my posts have been a bit snarky as of late and I'm at risk of getting a time out. In addition the whole augment issue being on point...

 

So to Mhorbin I have two words for you with respect to WoW:

 

ANCHOR WEED

 

Bottom line: This thread was over on post #6 when Tux said It's P2SG (Pay to skip grind). Joon then took one for the team and elaborated.

 

Well stated.

[mhobin]

Except for the last two tiers of Augments, you mean?

 

Also, you absolutely CAN buy top tier gear on the Auction House in WoW. And guess what!? Much of it is craftable! So sorry, but nothing about your assessment is based on facts. I play WoW, and I see people selling top tier pieces in Trade Chat and on the Auction House from crafting or the new raids released this week every single day for hundreds of thousands of gold (equivalent to millions in SWTOR). Some of it is bind on pickup, sure. But there are pieces that are not, and players pay a fortune for them to those who are lucky enough to get them to drop.

 

Plus, unlike SWTOR, there are a ton of items, mounts, schematics, etc. that drop in the open world that sell for huge amounts of gold, too. And many who come back to the game buy WoW tokens with their real life money to sell on the Auction House and transfer that into in-game money. It is a system that Blizzard intentionally set up to allow people to do that. But, similar to SWTOR... no one is getting any of that stuff without playing the game because it is not being sold in the store directly.

 

Edited to add: I concur that more of the top tier gear will be available on the GTN than there is currently with the new system. But it's not something that has never happened in the game before. Back when you could reverse engineer mods, hilts, barrels and so forth and then craft them, it was the same way. Excluding set bonuses. Never in the history of the game could you craft set bonuses. Due to the fact that there are so many different ones, I cannot imagine that they will be implementing this change to the new tier. Could they? Maybe. But it has never happened before, hasn't been announced, and it stands to reason more that it's unlikely vs. "for sure gonna happen".

 

So, while you might be able to pay to bypass some grind with the new system, someone somewhere is gonna have to grind for those schematics and those materials to make that gear, and that can only be done by playing the game. No amount of buying will make these items magically appear.

 

.

 

The top gear, best in the game, is craftable and for sale in WoW? Or is it very good gear, enough to do most content but not the best in PVE or PvP?

 

Gear earned from and to play arenas in wow I can be traded for gold?

[Jdast]

The top gear, best in the game, is craftable and for sale in WoW? Or is it very good gear, enough to do most content but not the best in PVE or PvP?

 

Gear earned from and to play arenas in wow I can be traded for gold?

 

By your definition of P2W, Fetid (possibly) and Vectis (most certainly) are P2W.

 

If you don't know what I mean by "Fetid" and "Vectis" (and have never encountered them) -- you really should stop making comparisons. In the meantime, my guild and I will keep buying crafting mats from PennyAnn (and others) and making her / them rich.

 

Look, we all get your definition of P2W -- just admit this is a stealth pro-bolster cap thread. Thx!

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Oh, and achievement revoked. You may be a princess, but I'm a queen.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Jdast

[Northernian]

We’ll they finally made the game pay to win. New crafted gear will be extremely expensive on the GTN. How are you going to raise money.....grind months of heroics or pay for some rare gear on the CM to raise the funds.

 

I’m just coming back to the game after a few years off. I don’t have 100m credits. Guess I am buying packs.

 

If you aren't doing ranked pvp or nightmare raiding, you really don't need that gear.

[PennyAnn]

By your definition of P2W, Fetid (possibly) and Vectis (most certainly) are P2W.

 

If you don't know what I mean by "Fetid" and "Vectis" (and have never encountered them) -- you really should stop making comparisons. In the meantime, my guild and I will keep buying crafting mats from PennyAnn (and others) and making her / them rich.

 

Look, we all get your definition of P2W -- just admit this is a stealth pro-bolster cap thread. Thx!

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Oh, and achievement revoked. You may be a princess, but I'm a queen.

 

Have you been watching Method stream their progression by chance? I'm pretty not so secretly in love with Sco... <3

 

=======================================================

To the OP, I will just wrap up my thoughts about this in this way:

 

You have admitted to making a click bait title to attract attention to this thread. I give you credit for admitting such. You have stretched the definition of Pay to Win to in this case describe a portion of the population who won't make the effort to grind for the schematics and materials for the new gear, and will buy it instead on the GTN with credits (gained however, cartel market, gold sellers, or not). Until you know where the schematics and materials will be available and how limited (or perhaps not) those are, you cannot determine how many people will fit in that category.

 

It is certainly not the whole game's population as I suspect a very large volume of people in the game will ignore this tier of gear exactly like they have all previous tiers of gear and shiny new augments.

 

Even those that purchase this gear with credits will join a long line of people who have played this game over the course of the last 7 years, and as recently as 3.0 right up until 4.0 were indeed buying BiS gear with credits. IN THIS GAME.

 

No need to even drag other games into this - however, yes BiS gear is also for sale on the WoW auction house, but the gearing system there is so vastly different from here that it really isn't fair to compare them. In fact, I only mention it because you brought it up as an example of "not pay to win" when it is in essence the very same thing, people buying a token from the Blizzard store that they are selling for in-game gold on the Auction House in order to purchase all such items in the game. If that is not pay to win, neither is this.

 

The gearing systems themselves however are not a fair comparison (WoW is extremely complex compared to SWTOR), so we should quit talking about it and simply focus on the history of THIS game, which I feel is a much fairer way to judge what is likely (but still not certain or even announced) about the new crafted tier of gear in SWTOR.

 

That said, here are my final summary points about this:

1. You are putting the cart before the horse to call this system out before it is announced or explained in any way other than to make you aware of a smidgen of it's existence.

 

2. It's fine to talk about different ways this might be handled, but is not fine to throw so much fanfare, hype, paranoia, and certainty behind said discussions. Bioware developers themselves might not even be sure how it's going to work yet.

 

3. This is not the first time in the history of the game that BiS gear was available for crafting/purchase from other players (via GTN, Trade or Fleet chat, or whatever). The only difference between this and the other tiers that were in the game pre-4.0 would be if you could craft set bonuses. They have made no such announcement that set bonuses would be able to be crafted, and there is no precedent to expect that the new tier will include set bonuses as craftable.

 

4. Even if set bonuses are not craftable, it will still be numerically BiS in all slots apart from the set bonus armorings (which by the way, you don't need in all slots to get a set bonus and some people run with only parts of instead favoring higher stats to the set bonus). Set "bonus" is a bonus... it's in the name. That does not make it numerically BiS, but it may still be preferred (and I agree, usually is). This will not be the first tier of gear that was available to be crafted EXCEPT for set bonuses if that is indeed how they roll it out. The point is, no one has ever been able to craft set bonus armorings before, but that didn't keep the newest tier of gear from being "BiS" in every other way. If it had the set BONUS (again, bonus)... then yes it would be an absolute perfect world in BiS land. But that has not been the case in other tiers, and was not the end of the world.

 

5. I think it is also much, much more highly likely that the new tier of gear will not include set bonuses because it's not coming with new set bonuses themselves, no level increase, and no expansion to warrant such a massive change to the crafting system of the last 7 years to add crafting set bonuses. Sure, I could be wrong, but I did said "likely" because none of us is 100% certain. It would be pretty crazy though for them to add this massive a shift in the scale of crafting in the game to make set bonuses available anywhere outside of set gear tokens/pieces from CXP crates... and I just think that's much more likely when there is something to justify it (like brand new set bonuses, a character level cap raise, a whole new expansion, etc.).

 

I don't think I can make it any more clear what my thoughts are, and why we disagree. I think that the reason I disagree with you is also reasonable, given that it is entirely based on past history in this game and experience in other games. I stand by my original statement: This is not Pay to Win.

 

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Edited September 16, 2018 by PennyAnn

[Sareeph]

That said, here are my final summary points about this:

1. You are putting the cart before the horse to call this system out before it is announced or explained in any way other than to make you aware of a smidgen of it's existence.

Agreed, they have not fully announced what their intentions are so there has been a lot of supposition posted on the forums.

 

2. It's fine to talk about different ways this might be handled, but is not fine to throw so much fanfare, hype, paranoia, and certainty behind said discussions. Bioware developers themselves might not even be sure how it's going to work yet.

You don't know if they know how it's going to work? Not a valid argument. When you know they don't know, it will be valid.

 

3. This is not the first time in the history of the game that BiS gear was available for crafting/purchase from other players (via GTN, Trade or Fleet chat, or whatever). The only difference between this and the other tiers that were in the game pre-4.0 would be if you could craft set bonuses. They have made no such announcement that set bonuses would be able to be crafted, and there is no precedent to expect that the new tier will include set bonuses as craftable.

Other than the fact that every incarnation of tier from Tionese to todays T4 has had set bonuses and the fact that they said in their stream that they intend to make crafting valuable again. Early sets were craftable through RE but did not carry the bonus if crafted. This "Tier" will only be available from crafting. Musco stated that the intention of this tier is a reward for doing Master Mode op's or working towards defeating MM op's(12:50 of the stream). Later he rephrased and said for progression raids and players(22:20 of the stream).

 

4. Even if set bonuses are not craftable, it will still be numerically BiS in all slots apart from the set bonus armorings (which by the way, you don't need in all slots to get a set bonus and some people run with only parts of instead favoring higher stats to the set bonus). Set "bonus" is a bonus... it's in the name. That does not make it numerically BiS, but it may still be preferred (and I agree, usually is). This will not be the first tier of gear that was available to be crafted EXCEPT for set bonuses if that is indeed how they roll it out. The point is, no one has ever been able to craft set bonus armorings before, but that didn't keep the newest tier of gear from being "BiS" in every other way. If it had the set BONUS (again, bonus)... then yes it would be an absolute perfect world in BiS land. But that has not been the case in other tiers, and was not the end of the world.

No, it would not be the end of the world but those of drama sure like to paint it that way.

 

5. I think it is also much, much more highly likely that the new tier of gear will not include set bonuses because it's not coming with new set bonuses themselves, no level increase, and no expansion to warrant such a massive change to the crafting system of the last 7 years to add crafting set bonuses. Sure, I could be wrong, but I did said "likely" because none of us is 100% certain. It would be pretty crazy though for them to add this massive a shift in the scale of crafting in the game to make set bonuses available anywhere outside of set gear tokens/pieces from CXP crates... and I just think that's much more likely when there is something to justify it (like brand new set bonuses, a character level cap raise, a whole new expansion, etc.).

Historically new tiers of gear have not only been introduced for an expansion and level cap. From the beginning we had steps within level caps and expansions(Ie Tionese-Rakata).

 

 

To the OP

 

You think that this is Pay to Win but they have not said this new crafted gear, introduced for progression players and raids, would be available for sale. What if this tier is BoP or BTL with set bonuses so that the new Master Mode Gods can be defeated? How is that for supposition?

Edited September 16, 2018 by Sareeph

[Sangrar]

I wouldn't consider this pay to win at all. You basically pay for the chance ( since the prices people will pay for your cartel items aren't guaranteed ) to skip grinding credits the old fashioned way. Even then I know from experience how long it can take to potentially offload a bunch of cartel items on the gtn.

 

If someone can literally get the exact same gear without paying and potentially not even going through too much difficulty ( after all credit grinding is very easy, just tedious ), then it's not pay to win, especially if the actual gear isn't being sold, stats and all, for real money.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Sangrar

[BoySaber]

We’ll they finally made the game pay to win. New crafted gear will be extremely expensive on the GTN. How are you going to raise money.....grind months of heroics or pay for some rare gear on the CM to raise the funds.

 

I’m just coming back to the game after a few years off. I don’t have 100m credits. Guess I am buying packs.

 

The game has been pay to win long ago. Free players and even Preferred have no chance to RNG their way to max gear even if they buy CC items (command crates or reward roll against other teammates in ops all require money first to give you this chance to RNG and you still may lose it when paying). Pay to win has been ongoing for very long time, nothing new about it, other than making it stronger pay to win with each "significant" update since subscriptions alone are not enough to maintain the game. But like before they just make game worse and lose players instead. Once I have no longer with who to play, and tank role queue becomes longer than 2 hours as before the last server merge, I will stop playing too, it simply is waste of time.

[omaan]

Regardless if it's p2win or not, it still sucks since it allows lazy richy credit buyers to get gear in a few clicks while ordinary pvp players will have to grind it for month in pve even though they will use it only for pvp this is madness

[PennyAnn]

Regardless if it's p2win or not, it still sucks since it allows lazy richy credit buyers to get gear in a few clicks while ordinary pvp players will have to grind it for month in pve even though they will use it only for pvp this is madness

 

Just like they force PvE-only people into ranked queues to get farmed in order to earn mats for gear they will only use for PvE. They do not want people ignoring everything but one part of the game, so they will quite likely keep designing their systems to encourage to play more than just a single game mode. It's not suddenly unfair just because the shoe is on the other foot.

 

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Edited September 21, 2018 by PennyAnn

[Andryah]

Regardless if it's p2win or not, it still sucks since it allows lazy richy credit buyers to get gear in a few clicks while ordinary pvp players will have to grind it for month in pve even though they will use it only for pvp this is madness

 

Actually, it rewards enterprising players who have a wealth plan and work the plan as part of their game play. This includes PvP players... who realize that there are ongoing expenses in playing, and as such need enough wealth to cover their needs/wants.... which do vary by player. You clearly do not have a wealth plan, and perhaps never have.

 

Why have a wealth plan in an MMO? Because things in MMOs do cost in game currency. The more you have, the more freedom you have to do what you like, how you like.... and the less vulnerable you are to any changes made to the game. Just as people benefit from having and working a wealth plan in real life.... the same basic model applies in anything that has an economy component to it.. and MMOs certainly apply here.

 

You are free to stay entrenched in your poverty mind set... but you are doing yourself no favors here. Time/effort is money, and vice versa. If you have no need for credits... then there is no need to have a plan to accumulate them... AND vice versa. The reality is... when playing MMOs...each player does need a personal plan for wealth accumulation if they want to be self-sufficient and want the best "things". If you are not a crafter by your own choice, and you want the best gear.. which happens in some cases to be crafted, then your alternative is a wealth accumulation plan... or forgo the gear.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Just like they force PvE-only people into ranked queues to get farmed in order to earn mats for gear they will only use for PvE. They do not want people ignoring everything but one part of the game, so they will quite likely keep designing their systems to encourage to play more than just a single game mode. It's not suddenly unfair just because the shoe is on the other foot.

 

.

 

I agree with you... but you are not going to get through to two dimensional thinking with the propensity to dig in and only see things their way.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Just like they force PvE-only people into ranked queues to get farmed in order to earn mats for gear they will only use for PvE. They do not want people ignoring everything but one part of the game, so they will quite likely keep designing their systems to encourage to play more than just a single game mode. It's not suddenly unfair just because the shoe is on the other foot.

 

.

 

PVE folks can get mats from Conquests. If they choose to get farmed in granked that is their poor judgment. It's far easier to obtain mats via Conquests than to lose every pvp match.

 

So let's not spread false equivalencies.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Toraak]

PVE folks can get mats from Conquests. If they choose to get farmed in granked that is their poor judgment. It's far easier to obtain mats via Conquests than to lose every pvp match.

 

So let's not spread false equivalencies.

 

Now they can, but for months there was no option for that. Originally the mats were only in Ranked PvP, or Random drop from Command crates (which were very low drop rate). So the point does stand that they are Encouraging people to play more then one game mode.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Now they can, but for months there was no option for that. Originally the mats were only in Ranked PvP, or Random drop from Command crates (which were very low drop rate). So the point does stand that they are Encouraging people to play more then one game mode.

 

It's more likely because the Conquests revamp was behind schedule and bugridden.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[giorgo]

Actually, it rewards enterprising players who have a wealth plan and work the plan as part of their game play. This includes PvP players... who realize that there are ongoing expenses in playing, and as such need enough wealth to cover their needs/wants.... which do vary by player. You clearly do not have a wealth plan, and perhaps never have.

 

Why have a wealth plan in an MMO? Because things in MMOs do cost in game currency. The more you have, the more freedom you have to do what you like, how you like.... and the less vulnerable you are to any changes made to the game. Just as people benefit from having and working a wealth plan in real life.... the same basic model applies in anything that has an economy component to it.. and MMOs certainly apply here.

 

You are free to stay entrenched in your poverty mind set... but you are doing yourself no favors here. Time/effort is money, and vice versa. If you have no need for credits... then there is no need to have a plan to accumulate them... AND vice versa. The reality is... when playing MMOs...each player does need a personal plan for wealth accumulation if they want to be self-sufficient and want the best "things". If you are not a crafter by your own choice, and you want the best gear.. which happens in some cases to be crafted, then your alternative is a wealth accumulation plan... or forgo the gear.

 

Why do i need a wealth plan...to obtain a specific gear...that should be obtained...with the currency earned...by doing a certain content (Unassembled components or warzone commendations before 5.0)?

Credits should be used for...vanity items and crafted gear (but crafted gear cannot be BiS).

Playing the GTN, gathering mats, crafting, doing heroics 24/7, selling CM items...should not be the way that you get BiS gear.

 

Augments were a different story, obviously, because they were always part of crafting only, but recently they got so expensive.They were cheap, worth of a couple of days grind to buy... so there was no need for a...wealth plan.

You just played the game as you desired...and with the credits you earned from your gameplay...you could buy the augments.

 

P.S. ...

[PennyAnn]

PVE folks can get mats from Conquests. If they choose to get farmed in granked that is their poor judgment. It's far easier to obtain mats via Conquests than to lose every pvp match.

 

So let's not spread false equivalencies.

 

We don't even know where the materials are going to come from, where the schematics are going to drop, if those are also going to be available via Conquest or CXP crates. Frankly, it can't be a false equivalency because we don't even know what the new system will look like to compare it.

 

The point is: Bioware does not like it when you only play one part of the game and they have and will continue to gate rewards behind parts of the game to encourage/force people to play them if they want the rewards. Complaining about this design tactic has not changed it one bit, other than to add less effective ways of getting those materials to the options.

 

Conquest is not the easiest way to get these rewards because you are limited to whatever comes in that box once per week. Conquest is not a method to "farm" materials. Ranked PvP absolutely is, and that's why people do it, advertise groups for it on the fleet, and go at it with no other intention than to "farm mats". Is anyone on the fleet advertising groups to "farm Conquest" for mats? With the legacy based restrictions on what you can even do to earn a conquest goal, I would think that counters any ability to "farm" at all. But then, I don't play the game any longer so I might be out of the loop on the new Conquest gold mine of mats.

 

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[Rion_Starkiller]

We don't even know where the materials are going to come from, where the schematics are going to drop, if those are also going to be available via Conquest or CXP crates. Frankly, it can't be a false equivalency because we don't even know what the new system will look like to compare it.

 

Righto.... we don't know that the "shoe is on the other foot" as you put it. There may even be a way to obtain the new mats via pvp, particularly now that there have been multiple threads about this topic. The new tier of gear is supposedly for NiM raiders. As if NiM raiders should have the best pvp gear too? Are they to be allowed to ONLY wear it in NiM GFTM?

 

The point is: Bioware does not like it when you only play one part of the game and they have and will continue to gate rewards behind parts of the game to encourage/force people to play them if they want the rewards. Complaining about this design tactic has not changed it one bit, other than to add less effective ways of getting those materials to the options.

 

I don't have a problem doing more than one game type. I'm an avid raider and pvper. However, I think complaining and being proactive against something that I suspect will be very poorly implemented (per usual BW history -- see Galactic Command), is a wise course of action. When this thread first started, I was skeptical and full of warm fuzzies about new gear to grind. But then I seriously thought about it, and the half-arsed -- and rushed -- job for which the devs are known.

 

Conquest is not the easiest way to get these rewards because you are limited to whatever comes in that box once per week. Conquest is not a method to "farm" materials. Ranked PvP absolutely is, and that's why people do it, advertise groups for it on the fleet, and go at it with no other intention than to "farm mats". Is anyone on the fleet advertising groups to "farm Conquest" for mats? With the legacy based restrictions on what you can even do to earn a conquest goal, I would think that counters any ability to "farm" at all. But then, I don't play the game any longer so I might be out of the loop on the new Conquest gold mine of mats.

 

It takes me like an hour to 1.5 hours per toon per week to hit conquests at 15k. I then get 1-3 CMT's and 1-3 of the other purple mats. So I guess it depends how many toons you have. I have approx 25 on SF.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[PennyAnn]

Righto.... we don't know that the "shoe is on the other foot" as you put it.

 

This is true. But I didn't necessarily mean that the system would for sure put the shoe on the other foot here, I was more responding to his complaint about having to do PvE content for crafting materials when people are currently "encouraged" to do PvP for the same. I have said all along that I have no idea what the final system will look like, or where the crafting materials and schematics will come from, other than that they stated they would certainly be rewards in NiM mode raids (which still honestly makes no sense... to reward you with gear crafting stuff for gear you supposedly "need" to kill the bosses you just killed to get it?).

 

I don't have a problem doing more than one game type. I'm an avid raider and pvper. However, I think complaining and being proactive against something that I suspect will be very poorly implemented (per usual BW history -- see Galactic Command), is a wise course of action. When this thread first started, I was skeptical and full of warm fuzzies about new gear to grind. But then I seriously thought about it, and the half-arsed -- and rushed -- job for which the devs are known.

 

I also have no problem with people calling out potential problems and thoughts about the system and how it should be rolled out when they eventually do. I think feedback is important, even if it is typically ignored around here. My beef is only with people acting like they already know all there is to know about this system when we know nothing, and calling it "pay to win" in order to try and draw attention to their thread. I responded to Omann because he was complaining about having to potentially do some PvE for gear and I wanted to point out that there are several instances where PvE players are semi-forced to do PvP if they want certain things: easier access to crafting materials for new augments is one example, but companions and Unassembled Components are others. Only in the case of companions are there no other ways to obtain them, but even so PvP is generally an easier route as you are rewarded win or lose with at least something.

 

It takes me like an hour to 1.5 hours per toon per week to hit conquests at 15k. I then get 1-3 CMT's and 1-3 of the other purple mats. So I guess it depends how many toons you have. I have approx 25 on SF.

 

So, out of curiosity - do you hit conquest on all 25 of those characters every week? And, how many CMTs and/or purple mats would you get for an hour to hour and a half in PvP instead of conquest? And can't you earn PvP rewards every day vs. just the one day of the week for your conquest effort? If conquest is giving out mats that much more freely than PvP then perhaps everyone is doing it wrong.

 

(Again, I wouldn't know the current state of things because I've been too busy getting through all the new stuff added to WoW in the last few months, and more to come at/near Blizzcon). In fact, my posting privileges are likely to end here very soon. But I will likely be back when/if there is a 6.0.

 

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[mhobin]

Hard to argue that the new gear system was not put in place to drive CM sales. It is going to be expensive. And for 99.9% of the population credits will be the most time effective way to gear.

 

I don't see a way to defend it, let's see you try.

[aerockyul]

Using made up %’s won’t make people go to your side.

 

Based on what we know about Keith, I personally think the motive for this is more naive. They think more people will try out the MM raiding scene, as if the only thing keeping casuals from trying was incentive/lack of mats and not the stupidly insane difficulty made for an extreme minority of players. They already did this with granked. Same thinking is driving this.

 

People foolishly using the most inefficient method of selling hypercrates is a bonus they can count on by people too conditioned to use shortcuts that are not intended. Those people will do the hypercrate thing anyway. Are you thinking they should close the CM to protect people from their impatient selves? I just heard an EA bean counter spit out their coffee with laughter

[HaoZhao]

They've actually moved AWAY from pay-to-win in the coming 5.10. In the current version of the game, you need to be a subscriber to get your set bonus. As far as I can see, in 5.10, you'll be able to grind 258s so long as you're a preferred player who can get to level 70. This definitely seems like a step forward and not backward. Edited October 13, 2018 by HaoZhao

[Rion_Starkiller]

Hard to argue that the new gear system was not put in place to drive CM sales. It is going to be expensive. And for 99.9% of the population credits will be the most time effective way to gear.

 

I don't see a way to defend it, let's see you try.

 

I suppose it depends if NiM raiders will gear themselves first? Hard to say. Anything available in the first week will be outrageously expensive. By week 3, the prices should start coming down.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I suppose it depends if NiM raiders will gear themselves first? Hard to say. Anything available in the first week will be outrageously expensive. By week 3, the prices should start coming down.

 

NiM raiders will have a faster gearing experience than PVP [assuming they are getting the clears regulaely, which is doubtful] and as well they should gear faster than everyone else IMO, providing it is not a long time in the difference.

 

If more than 10% of players are NiM worthy I'd be utterly shocked. it really isn't about it being faster, most people won't get the clears even if they tried. If you were never in progression groups for NiM previously, you'd virtually have no chance of getting clears.

 

As a consequence of that it's safe to say the best and most viably way of earning the 258s BIS will be via crafting or buying it with UCs converted to masterwork shards.

 

If you can earn it for free, it can't be considered a P2W. People are too lazy to earn it for themselves, that's on them.

 

For those that are very NiM worthy, gearing will be faster than PVP and quite honestly given the differences of difficulties between NiM and PVP, NiM raiders should gear faster, it's the hardest content in the game. and one of which so few posses the necessary skills to clear.

 

UC's converted to Masterwork shards will be the most common method of gearing followed by crafting. Crating wise, if you don't already have all the crafting options necessary to craft that means you have to give them up for as long as you're still gearing.

 

Virtually no one will be in any position to buy the gear off the GtN, the prices will be astronomical, however would be more viable than the NiM route. Material costs are just as likely to break the bank tho any was.

Edited October 13, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx