Bioware - Can you comment on this?

[Rialth]

I read the interview with Stephen Reid and even though he stated that they look at the forums and use that as a gage to adjust the game. They also use in game metrics and "gut feelings" I'm paraphrasing but he did say that part in quotes. That being said:

 

The reason many don't like this thread isn't because we want to see the other crafting classes languish in obscurity but in the past we have gotten use to developers that run with the motto, is it easier to nerf one thing than fix 9 other things. In this case crafting classes.

 

So yes I am a BioChem crafter on my Jedi Guardian and I am having fun with this combo. I don't want to stop having fun because BioChem is nerfed to uselessness. If BW takes anything from this thread let it be that the other crafting classes need to be retooled and made relevant.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Rialth

[Tenetke]

He IS ignorant. He didn't bother reading the points where we clearly state that we're not looking for nerfs, we're preferring buffs to the other professions. And you're right - slicing was, infact, ridiculous.

 

You can say what you want, but all you really want is biochem nerfed just like you got slicing nerfed. Dress it up anyway you want it, but that's what you people want. Otherwise you wouldn't have made a thread about biochem, you would have made a thread about the profession you want buffed and given relevant, constructive feedback on it. You haven't though, and you won't. You want to play like you don't want it nerfed, and yet anyone that has the intelligence of a rock can see through the charade.

[Shocktastik]

@Draygo

 

If the cool new schematics other crafters get aren't for BoP items then everyone will still have access to them and everyone will still be upset that Biochem has better stuff than they can get.

 

If crafters could craft BoP gear for themselves of a quality corresponding to the previous raid teir that would be good enough IMO. Each time there is a new raid teir, make schematics available to craft comparable gear to the previous teir. Wouldn't be OP, but would let you prep for current content without making either the crafting or the current Operations obsolete.

[-Shadowfist-]

You can say what you want, but all you really want is biochem nerfed just like you got slicing nerfed. Dress it up anyway you want it, but that's what you people want. Otherwise you wouldn't have made a thread about biochem, you would have made a thread about the profession you want buffed and given relevant, constructive feedback on it. You haven't though, and you won't. You want to play like you don't want it nerfed, and yet anyone that has the intelligence of a rock can see through the charade.

 

No. It's not. You're essentially saying "I know what you said even though that's not what you said." Feedback has been given - we pointed out Biochem perks and requested similiar perks. L2read. There's no charade, only your own idiotic insecurity reading things that don't exist between the lines.

 

Stop trolling.

[Repefe]

He IS ignorant. He didn't bother reading the points where we clearly state that we're not looking for nerfs, we're preferring buffs to the other professions. And you're right - slicing was, infact, ridiculous.

 

Yes it was ridiculous ... but money printing was the only good thing about slicing. What use is broken money printer ?

[Tenetke]

No. It's not. You're essentially saying "I know what you said even though that's not what you said." Feedback has been given - we pointed out Biochem perks and requested similiar perks. L2read. There's no charade, only your own idiotic insecurity reading things that don't exist between the lines.

 

Stop trolling.

 

Someone's mad, tough. You want something else nerfed, stop pretending you don't. Your idea of ways to fix another profession "nerf biochem". Yeah, that will fix it. Don't worry though, Bioware has proven they will give in to you. Just keep at it. Next patch biochem adjustments, you watch.

[Redial]

Someone's mad, tough. You want something else nerfed, stop pretending you don't. Your idea of ways to fix another profession "nerf biochem". Yeah, that will fix it. Don't worry though, Bioware has proven they will give in to you. Just keep at it. Next patch biochem adjustments, you watch.

 

what are you talking about?

 

i think the only thing everyone agrees on is that every other crewskill needs buffed. The only reason biochem comes up every time is that it is an easy way to illustrate that others are broken by saying "why WOULDNT i choose biochem?"

 

i definitely dont want a biochem nerf. Nerf biochem and cybertech and i wont even craft at all, ever. Ill just gather and buy my goods from the GTN and let everyone else bang their heads against the wall

[-Shadowfist-]

what are you talking about?

 

i think the only thing everyone agrees on is that every other crewskill needs buffed. The only reason biochem comes up every time is that it is an easy way to illustrate that others are broken by saying "why WOULDNT i choose biochem?"

 

i definitely dont want a biochem nerf. Nerf biochem and cybertech and i wont even craft at all, ever. Ill just gather and buy my goods from the GTN and let everyone else bang their heads against the wall

 

This. ^

 

Note the "Someone's mad" comment... he's just trolling. Ignore him.

[Ravaran]

ugghh. Artifice is one of the best off in terms of max-level perks. You get best Hilts, Color Crystals, Relics, and Enhancements. Correct me if I'm wrong

[DraygoLLTS]

@ Shocktastik

 

The problem with the craftable Bop's is it makes those items only useful for the person that crafts them. What about making money with them on the Galactic Trade? What if I see someone wearing a cool piece of armor and I want it? Should I have to start all over with my crafting just to get it? What if I don't want to raid? What if I don't want to Pvp? You need to think of it as a something for everyone kind of game and it is just a game and I want to have fun and be challenged, but I don't want it to turn into another cookie cutter MMO like all the others. This is something new and fresh and I am loving it so far even with the bugs and glitches. What I am trying to express is that our folks at BW don't take the same approach at fixes that the rest of the MMO's have taken, which is go on nerf patrol to fix things. I don't care if it is harder to fix 9 things than nerf 1 thing. I, like the rest of you, pay money every month and I don't think it is unrealistic to expect the BW team to not take the easy way out when it comes to fixes.

 

Lets not turn this into just another MMO, because that is what everyone is used to, lest keep it new and fresh and interesting. I don't know about the rest of you, but I want to have fun and I don't want this to feel like it's a second job because everyone turns it into some kind of grind fest.

[magnuskn]

No. It's not. You're essentially saying "I know what you said even though that's not what you said." Feedback has been given - we pointed out Biochem perks and requested similiar perks. L2read. There's no charade, only your own idiotic insecurity reading things that don't exist between the lines.

 

Stop trolling.

 

He has a point, though. This is not the only thread about Biochem being out of line with other professions. Now, even if we assume that you and others don't want the profession nerfed, but rather the other ones buffed ( which I think is the way to go, too ), too many threads about "OMG, Biochem!" will probably lead to an unwarranted nerf.

Edited December 29, 2011 by magnuskn

[Redial]

ugghh. Artifice is one of the best off in terms of max-level perks. You get best Hilts, Color Crystals, Relics, and Enhancements. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

you have a point that it has some BOP stuff.

 

Heres where i see a problem

here is the BOP version

http://www.torhead.com/schematic/8Zx5Wrt

here is the BOE version

http://www.torhead.com/schematic/3Yv2oT2

 

 

so the benefit gained by being an artifice crafter is exactly 1 str, 1end. and 2 power rating.

 

that does not seem like a lot when compared to some other things from other professions.

 

Now maybe i dont know the whole story, but if these arent the best in class at lvl 50 you will never bother equipping them anyways. If they are the best, then its only 2 stat points better.

 

maybe that adds up to a lot once you take into account all the different slots. Dont know, need more research

[-Shadowfist-]

He has a point, though. This is not the only thread about Biochem being out of line with other professions. Now, even if we assume that you and others don't want the profession nerfed, but rather the other ones buffed ( which I think is the way to go, too ), too many threads about "OMG, Biochem!" will probably lead to an unwarranted nerf.

 

I agree with that. What I don't agree with is some random coming in here and telling me that I want a nerf... when I don't. That was my whole point.

[Ravaran]

Yeah, its unclear whether the BoPs at end-game are better or worse than BoE versions or pvp gear...as I do not think torhead has been updated since beta. We really need some screenshots from max-level crafters.

 

I think the BoP versions are there..., they just need balancing.

[The_Archon]

I called this way ahead of time. Well, technically so did others. Once Bioware caved like a #$%^ on the slicing QQ we knew it would really get started. Now that they know BW will give in to anything with the right amount of QQ you just watch. Biochem is next.

 

Grats guys, but hey could you go ahead and give us your plan of attack so that WE can plan accordingly since BW has made it clear the forum QQ dictates how they balance the game.

 

(oh, and slicing wasn't how I made my money. That's never getting out, and the others aren't telling because we know exactly what will happen. )

 

^ QQ post.

[PotatoPaper]

When are you kids gonna see the big picture? Let's see. First, biochem gets reusable versions of things that non biochems can purchase. In fact the lesser version can be purchased from vendors. This means that there is an artificial cap on biochem profits.

 

Now, between that fact and the fact that people in a crafting profession presumably want to sell something this relegates them to making prototype(blue) quality medkits for you complainers out there who gouged them and everyone else all the way through the leveling process on weapons and armor and the like.

 

This point here is very important. If a biochemist didn't get a reusable medpack do you know what would happen? He wouldn't sell you any because he would keep them to use himself. Still paying attention? It is the fact that they can make reusables that allows them to sell to you complainers. Keep in mind that the biochemist medpack is actually weaker than the lower grade one.

 

Next lets talk about these other professions that "don't get anything" since we have cleared up what biochemists actually get. You get to reverse engineer for a wide variety of gear options. Wait, someone will complain about reverse engineering being expensive..It is for biochem too but quess what? They don't get 15 different flavors of gear per base gear do they? No they don't. In other words the potential for profit, useful gear, and customization in the other professions is at least as good.

 

If there is an issue with a craft and I'm not saying there is but if there is it is cyber. Cybertech mods are very economical from vendors. The mods are prototype quality. This very seriously narrows the range for sale on many cyber recipes. That being said cyber does not enrich the player who uses them. You can sell armor after your done with it. Not so with cyber mods. This likely balances things quite a bit.

 

Slicing is critical in this game and a nerf to it is a mistake. Crew skills have no purpose if you must grind for cash. I can send my people out to get mats and stuff sweet..wait i may as well get them myself cause I have to grind credits....FAIL. Don't bother arguing that this is not true. It is. Simple as that. Training, mission skills, and gather skills not to mention RevEngin are an ENORMOUS credit sink and those credits LEAVE the economy. They must be replenish somehow. Guess how? You should get it right because I already explained it.

 

Question my credentials if you will but I have multiple 50s all crew skills most of which are maxed and I am..well bluntly I am smarter than you. Instead of thinking to rationalize your view try thinking to determine it.

[Maxell_Snow]

As far as biochem... a medpack that heals fro 6k + 2k over 15 seconds along with amazing stat implants and 2 hour stims that last through death.... now THAT's a perk. Don't forget all the adrenals either.

 

It's just ridiculous to keep anything besides biochem for end game.. that's the point of my post. No, it's not a joke.

 

You are misinformed about biochem...the medpack with the base heal plus the hot is useable by anyone, the stims that last through death are useable by anyone. There was another thread of people complaining all they could get were the blue rare crafting components from diplomacy missions which both of your examples use. There is no reason these should not be stocked on the gtn.

 

What you use as an example is no perk for biochem as it is accessible by ANYONE.

[Thebigkabooa]

Stuff.

 

About Gouging: No one made you buy an item that quests and commendations offered comparable things for.

 

About Reusuables and Selling: This isn't even a valid argument. They'd spend an extra half hour farming materials and then ~sell the excess kits~. If there were no reusables, then ~all medkits would be in higher demand~, as there would be less motivated Biochems to go out and make their own.

 

About RE Recipes: Yes, there's 15 recipes to most items, but that's like saying there's 15 flavors of Ice Cream; Vanilla, Chocolate, Strawberry, and Twelve different types of dung.

 

About Cybertech: More or less. Except Armstech is in worse shape.

 

Money Sinks: Removing money from the system is as important as bringing it in; This is why repairs exist, this is why crafting missions cost a substantial amount of credits, and this is why the profession geared around "gathering" credits was toned down. It helps slow down the inflation that is going to happen anyways.

[Blackardin]

Potato,

 

Your condescending attitude and blanket ad-hominum insinuations do very little to validate your argument. In fact, I stopped reading your post as the intent was lost in the grandiose posturing and bloviating.

 

I'm going to guess that your argument is as rife with logical fallacy and unfounded assumptions as is your attitude toward your reader.

 

Please re-write it in a more respectful tone, with the assumption that the reader is not only above the level of "kid", but may actually posses greater intellect and education then yourself, and I'll take the time to read it. ;p

Edited February 26, 2012 by Blackardin