Operative healer good at anything?

[kissingaiur]

Honestly the merc healer is truly the most unforgiving because there simply is no way to disconnect focus completely.

 

I find personally on my mando healer with strong focus even my DCDs are insufficient to manage the damage coming in, there's simply nothing to do but see the end coming and know I am dead.

 

Sorc gets bubble as well as phasewalk which can grant the sorc two lives if played right.

 

Ops healer gets stealth-out-of-combat which gives a 100% chance to escape combat and drop all focus.

 

I agree ops healers are the most complex and difficult healer to play though, and I believe they have the highest ceiling of performance to reach too. That doesn't mean they have no "I-win" button though, because in my eyes they do just as sorc healer does.

 

I just want to point out merc healer has no such escape or "I-win" button.

 

In the past I always likened playing a merc healer to being a lumbering rhino with a pack of lions draped across it's back trying to escape the attack with no real escape to be had. That's how it is for the merc healer, there really is no escaping the assault.

 

Merc is a bad pvp healer because it’s mechically bad for pvp. It has majority of cast heals in an eviotnement that favors mobility. Classes that heal on the move or have good instants do better in Pvp. Merc healing is easy to understand and their dcds are very forgiving but it’s just gimped by it’s playstyle. That’s why it’s always going to be third on the list of healers.

 

Both Sorc and op are good pvp healing classes but vary in how mechically easy they are. Sorc is more forgiving in the sense that it’s cds and dcds are great and the way it plays is perfect for a pvp environment. The only downside to Sorc is.its hps has a shelf life, you can’t maintain high hps for long periods of time.

 

Op on the other hand can. That’s the strength of the class but overall the dcds and cds are meh.

 

I also wouldn’t say stealth out instantly saves you. When popping stealth out, to have it actually work properly you have to use it with another dcd, Evasion or shield probe on top of it. Even then damage can instantly knock you out. Also even after you stealth out you might still die to projectiles still travel towards you in stealth regardless. Stealth out it’s an OK escape but I would hands down rather have merc reflect or Sorc barrier. Those are true escapes that work to make people stop attacking you for a couple of seconds and both can be used while cced.

 

To say that merc dcds are worse then operative is the biggest understatement of the year.

Edited June 6, 2018 by kissingaiur

[Rion_Starkiller]

No offense to Hottie. She's an excellent healer but there are better Op healers out there. She's not the exception. Exceptions are operative healers that pull 13k hps consistently in group ranked against some of the best teams. There are plenty of good op healers than can pull 8-10k hps. They are the rule. Base your balance changes off them. And right now, I can tell you that operative healing does not need DR. Its in a good spot for players that are good enough and and can play the unique play style.

 

As a mediocre group-ranked player (I will only achieve bronze this season after 12 matches in ruffian), I haven't seen operative healers in queue. That said, I haven't granked since like 5.5-ish. Did they start showing up after the healer nerfs? Are they a new phenomenon? Not trying to be argumentative here, but very curious! I wrote off scoundrel heals when they made sorc/sage heals unkillable in 4.x.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[kissingaiur]

As a mediocre group-ranked player (I will only achieve bronze this season after 12 matches... as ruffian), I haven't seen operative healers in queue. That said, I haven't granked since like 5.5-ish. Did they start showing up after the healer nerfs? Are they a new phenomenon? Not trying to be argumentative here, but very curious! I wrote off scoundrel heals when they made sorc/sage heals unkillable in 4.x.

 

Ops were still the best at pressure before but sorcs dominated granked (4.X) till they got a energy nerf/hps nerf. They can’t sustain over 10k. Ops can so they are competitive.

[MackPol]

It’s the only healer I ever play and like it a lot but definately seems harder then others (part of the fun).

Tho I like playing TR against Op healer , since they are the easiest to hard swap against for me ( I am not very good so there is that). It’s possible to global them, easier then other 2 and also even if we fail to get a kill on dd player Op healers are slowest to bring them up .

 

They seem sweet tho against aoe comps and most teams I encounter run that so there is definately a place for Op healer in TR.

Also have seen successfull Sr opers who showed great kiting and positioning so I think that could be the key

[kissingaiur]

No offense to Hottie. She's an excellent healer but there are better Op healers out there. She's not the exception. Exceptions are operative healers that pull 13k hps consistently in group ranked against some of the best teams. There are plenty of good op healers than can pull 8-10k hps. They are the rule. Base your balance changes off them. And right now, I can tell you that operative healing does not need DR. Its in a good spot for players that are good enough and and can play the unique play style.

 

You don’t need to pull 13k consistently in GR to win games as an op what lol. All you need is 10-11k. I even fought double cleave vs sink and it wasn’t even 12k. Cleave healing teams as an op is literally what the class was designed to do, it’s not hard. Now burst healing verse hardswap is another story, that takes more skill.

Edited June 6, 2018 by kissingaiur

[SlimeyDoom]

I recomend u to read my previous post, 2nd sentence to be more clear.

Operative healers good balanced and dont need any dcds buffs, and they good in any type of content if you play it right.

 

Basically this. All three healing classes work in group ranked if you’re good at them. Considering most teams run pressure, operative is actually in a very good spot right now.

Edited June 6, 2018 by SlimeyDoom

[Rion_Starkiller]

It’s possible to global them, easier then other 2 and also even if we fail to get a kill on dd player Op healers are slowest to bring them up .

Also have seen successfull Sr opers who showed great kiting and positioning so I think that could be the key

 

Yeah, no peels in a pug group gets globaled easily

 

I think i will start pvp healing again on my scoundrel. There will definitely be growing pains, haha.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Hatstandard]

the best operative healers are like "game over man game over." Their teams just try to make sure nobody gets burst down and eventually they always win. They are too good at kiting to be focused and they are smart with defensives. they don't get globalled.

 

Just like there should be a few low skill classes/disciplines there should be a few high skill classes/disciplines. People in the middle tend to get mad about classes on either side of spectrum. You're in the middle bro...

[Lhancelot]

To say that merc dcds are worse then operative is the biggest understatement of the year.

 

I don't think I ever said "merc dcds are worse than operative" I just said operatives have one thing mercs do not, which is an anti-focus ability which is a huge advantage over the merc.

 

In fact on merc heals, I don't even bother with the mobility utilities. I find them inefficient for survival when dps classes have so many ways to keep target on the merc healer. I pick utilities that strengthen the already strong dcds because that's the most efficient way to strengthen the healing mercs survival in pvp.

 

So we agree, merc dcds are quite powerful, the problem is once the merc burns their dcds the end is quite predictable, they are going to die fast with no way to escape or avoid death.

 

You also noted exactly why mercs are the weakest healer in pvp, that being having inefficient mobility to counter all the dps that can stay on target and dish out superior damage with interupts on the merc who needs to hard cast so often to keep their hps up.

 

I would say though, if BW wants to make mercs a stand and cast healer-type, then give them more immunities to interrupt. That or give them HoT properties to their hard cast heals. Or, enable them better mobility in PVP, more heals on the move. OR, give them an anti-focus shield ability like the sorc bubble that breaks focus.

 

Even to this day after so many improvements to the merc healer over the years, they still are a failure in design for PVP healing, at least competitively.

[kissingaiur]

I don't think I ever said "merc dcds are worse than operative" I just said operatives have one thing mercs do not, which is an anti-focus ability which is a huge advantage over the merc.

 

In fact on merc heals, I don't even bother with the mobility utilities. I find them inefficient for survival when dps classes have so many ways to keep target on the merc healer. I pick utilities that strengthen the already strong dcds because that's the most efficient way to strengthen the healing mercs survival in pvp.

 

So we agree, merc dcds are quite powerful, the problem is once the merc burns their dcds the end is quite predictable, they are going to die fast with no way to escape or avoid death.

 

You also noted exactly why mercs are the weakest healer in pvp, that being having inefficient mobility to counter all the dps that can stay on target and dish out superior damage with interupts on the merc who needs to hard cast so often to keep their hps up.

 

I would say though, if BW wants to make mercs a stand and cast healer-type, then give them more immunities to interrupt. That or give them HoT properties to their hard cast heals. Or, enable them better mobility in PVP, more heals on the move. OR, give them an anti-focus shield ability like the sorc bubble that breaks focus.

 

Even to this day after so many improvements to the merc healer over the years, they still are a failure in design for PVP healing, at least competitively.

 

I’m confused how things like good kolto and reflect are not considered as “anti focus abilities”. If you tunnel a merc through them they won’t die. Your forced to stop attacking them, isn’t that the definition of anti focus?

Edited June 6, 2018 by kissingaiur

[Rion_Starkiller]

the best operative healers are like "game over man game over." Their teams just try to make sure nobody gets burst down and eventually they always win. They are too good at kiting to be focused and they are smart with defensives. they don't get globalled.

 

Just like there should be a few low skill classes/disciplines there should be a few high skill classes/disciplines. People in the middle tend to get mad about classes on either side of spectrum. You're in the middle bro...

 

I'm fine with mediocre. I just started pvp healing again last night since people are saying it's viable. I will git gud

 

 

(EDIT: might be mistakenly assuming you are talking to me, not the OP. both?)

Edited June 6, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[ChaosIsGolden]

I recommend playing what you enjoy, if that's an operative healer, then give everyone the finger and keep at it.

 

However, if the difficulty is making your experience less enjoyable check out the class forums, Dulfy's website or YouTube, there are some helpful posts and videos on Ope/Sco healing, which could make staying alive easier. If that still doesn't work, check out the other class healers. That's how I switched from healing on my sorc, (I hated draining my life to regenerate force) to my operative healer that I still have fun with today.

 

Besides as I see it, it's an MMO and who knows six months down the line, Ope/Sco maybe the OP healing class, with Bioware anything is possible.

[Lhancelot]

I’m confused how things like good kolto and reflect are not considered as “anti focus abilities”. If you tunnel a merc through them they won’t die. Your forced to stop attacking them, isn’t that the definition of anti focus?

 

What I have noticed on my merc when I use my "good kolto" and reflect is I get tunneled the duration of those DCDs, which from my perspective means they are not "anti-focus" abilities.

 

I also noticed when I play my ops healer, I can stealth out and remove all focus instantly, and to me that's an anti-focus ability.

 

Either you are being facetious, or we have different ideas of what "anti-focus abilities" are.

 

Well anyway. The two classes are extremely different from one another and both pose different frustrations which can stem from class mechanics as well as player skill.

 

I'd trade the merc reflect any day for a sorc bubble or ops stealth out of combat ability.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Lhancelot

[Rion_Starkiller]

I don't know.. a good player will aoe, KB or stealth scan you the second you stealth out. Edited June 6, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Jesseriah]

The question alone is ridiculous, lmao

Operative is the most played class by fotm rerollers (right next to heal-sorc), that alone should tell you how laughable easy and good operative is for both, damage and heal. Literally every retard can play it and still be good with that class.

 

And i'm not even hating. Im playing one by myself once a week and destroying everybody lol.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Jesseriah

[kissingaiur]

What I have noticed on my merc when I use my "good kolto" and reflect is I get tunneled the duration of those DCDs, which from my perspective means they are not "anti-focus" abilities.

 

I also noticed when I play my ops healer, I can stealth out and remove all focus instantly, and to me that's an anti-focus ability.

 

Either you are being facetious, or we have different ideas of what "anti-focus abilities" are.

 

Well anyway. The two classes are extremely different from one another and both pose different frustrations which can stem from class mechanics as well as player skill.

 

I'd trade the merc reflect any day for a sorc bubble or ops stealth out of combat ability.

 

If people tunnel into kolto or reflect they are morons. Regardless if they are morons and tunnel it or wait it out, you will 100% not die during their duration (unless of course you are so low that you get killed by aoes during reflect).

 

Stealth out doesn't work as well as you imagine it to work. You have to pop it super early, you cannot pop it in a stun, you have still a high chance of being forced out of it instantly, you need another dcd to have a better chance to not pop out instantly (but even after this you might still be popped out). After you do all this you have to find a good place to burst yourself back up then go back into combat, during this time good players are looking in the obvious spots to catch you before you can even heal yourself up.

 

Stealth out is very RNG if it actually works as an escape at all. Yes, realistically it can put you out of combat in a safe place but majority of the time that doesn't really happen. Being popped out instantly or dying in stealth is a very common occurrence. Therefore reflect and kotlo are superior. Reflect can be popped in cc so its super forgiving, if people tunnel you still they heal you to full. Better Kolto is almost impossible to burst through. So yeah, they are 100% going to save you in almost every situation and are an actual anti-focus tool, unlike stealth out.

 

PS - almost everyone would love a sorc barrier, its the best anti-focus in the game but that being said because its good they cannot do anything when its up, so its balanced like that.

[SlimeyDoom]

What I have noticed on my merc when I use my "good kolto" and reflect is I get tunneled the duration of those DCDs, which from my perspective means they are not "anti-focus" abilities.

 

I also noticed when I play my ops healer, I can stealth out and remove all focus instantly, and to me that's an anti-focus ability.

 

Either you are being facetious, or we have different ideas of what "anti-focus abilities" are.

 

Well anyway. The two classes are extremely different from one another and both pose different frustrations which can stem from class mechanics as well as player skill.

 

I'd trade the merc reflect any day for a sorc bubble or ops stealth out of combat ability.

 

Merc healers are obnoxiously tanky and perfectly suited for reg matches. If you’re having trouble surviving as a merc healer, that just means that you don’t know how to play it, not that the class is bad .

[Lhancelot]

If people tunnel into kolto or reflect they are morons. Regardless if they are morons and tunnel it or wait it out, you will 100% not die during their duration (unless of course you are so low that you get killed by aoes during reflect).

 

Stealth out doesn't work as well as you imagine it to work. You have to pop it super early, you cannot pop it in a stun, you have still a high chance of being forced out of it instantly, you need another dcd to have a better chance to not pop out instantly (but even after this you might still be popped out). After you do all this you have to find a good place to burst yourself back up then go back into combat, during this time good players are looking in the obvious spots to catch you before you can even heal yourself up.

 

Stealth out is very RNG if it actually works as an escape at all. Yes, realistically it can put you out of combat in a safe place but majority of the time that doesn't really happen. Being popped out instantly or dying in stealth is a very common occurrence. Therefore reflect and kotlo are superior. Reflect can be popped in cc so its super forgiving, if people tunnel you still they heal you to full. Better Kolto is almost impossible to burst through. So yeah, they are 100% going to save you in almost every situation and are an actual anti-focus tool, unlike stealth out.

 

PS - almost everyone would love a sorc barrier, its the best anti-focus in the game but that being said because its good they cannot do anything when its up, so its balanced like that.

 

I understand all of what you are writing, but when comparing the heal classes I mean to view them as a whole not just from a DCD comparison standpoint, or an anti-focus ability standpoint, or a mobility standpoint etc.

 

All of what you write is 100% true here.

 

The thing is, even with the weaknesses you point out on the ops healer, and even when I concede and always have for ages now that op healer is the most complex healer to play, op healers do have a higher ceiling of performance and is still more "viable" in ranked as you even point out, than the merc healer with better HPS output regardless how it is achieved.

 

I find the commando healer more challenging so play it more than any of my other healers atm. TBH if they gave it a bubble-like ability it probably would make it too powerful and I'd quit it out of boredom.

 

In a nutshell I just find it really frustrating on mando heals against competent dps and a weak team on my side. There truly is no where to escape a pack of good dps, whereas with my scoundrel healer at least I can find some relief with stealthing out and rolling away.

 

The 6 second reflect is really a nice ability on mando no doubt, I just find it a long cooldown timer and a bit short at 6 secs. I wish there was a utility that I could pick that shortened the timer on reflect like energy shield when hit, I'd take it.

 

I also am new to using reflect, I just got back to game after quitting shortly after 5.0, and I had to train this ability on my mando healer recently as he was 65 lvl from the last time I'd played him ages ago. You are right though, I find it to be a very powerful DCD.

[Lhancelot]

Merc healers are obnoxiously tanky and perfectly suited for reg matches. If you’re having trouble surviving as a merc healer, that just means that you don’t know how to play it, not that the class is bad .

 

Never said the class was bad, never said I have trouble on the class. Yes, they are fine in regs I do fine on my mando healer in regs. I never said any of what you said in your response to my posts.

[Elusive_Thing]

The question alone is ridiculous, lmao

Operative is the most played class by fotm rerollers (right next to heal-sorc), that alone should tell you how laughable easy and good operative is for both, damage and heal. Literally every retard can play it and still be good with that class.

 

And i'm not even hating. Im playing one by myself once a week and destroying everybody lol.

What?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I understand all of what you are writing, but when comparing the heal classes I mean to view them as a whole not just from a DCD comparison standpoint, or an anti-focus ability standpoint, or a mobility standpoint etc.

 

All of what you write is 100% true here.

 

The thing is, even with the weaknesses you point out on the ops healer, and even when I concede and always have for ages now that op healer is the most complex healer to play, op healers do have a higher ceiling of performance and is still more "viable" in ranked as you even point out, than the merc healer with better HPS output regardless how it is achieved.

 

I find the commando healer more challenging so play it more than any of my other healers atm. TBH if they gave it a bubble-like ability it probably would make it too powerful and I'd quit it out of boredom.

 

In a nutshell I just find it really frustrating on mando heals against competent dps and a weak team on my side. There truly is no where to escape a pack of good dps, whereas with my scoundrel healer at least I can find some relief with stealthing out and rolling away.

 

The 6 second reflect is really a nice ability on mando no doubt, I just find it a long cooldown timer and a bit short at 6 secs. I wish there was a utility that I could pick that shortened the timer on reflect like energy shield when hit, I'd take it.

 

I also am new to using reflect, I just got back to game after quitting shortly after 5.0, and I had to train this ability on my mando healer recently as he was 65 lvl from the last time I'd played him ages ago. You are right though, I find it to be a very powerful DCD.

 

 

Advocating buffs to Merc DCDs is an excellent way to get yourself lynched heh

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

The question alone is ridiculous, lmao

Operative is the most played class by fotm rerollers (right next to heal-sorc), that alone should tell you how laughable easy and good operative is for both, damage and heal. Literally every retard can play it and still be good with that class.

 

And i'm not even hating. Im playing one by myself once a week and destroying everybody lol.

 

What What?

[MackPol]

The question alone is ridiculous, lmao

Operative is the most played class by fotm rerollers (right next to heal-sorc), that alone should tell you how laughable easy and good operative is for both, damage and heal. Literally every retard can play it and still be good with that class.

 

And i'm not even hating. Im playing one by myself once a week and destroying everybody lol.

 

Lol what ?

 

Love how ppl get statistics out of their head on this forum

[Jesseriah]

"Statistics out of their heads"

LMAO

 

Yeah. Definitely.

Love all you "What??!?!?!" posters. Typical fotm players defending their op class :'D

All i need is to take a look ingame to see how many people playing Operatives, PTs and healsorcs in rated bgs. You literally see nothing else in rated but ok. "WHATTTTTT" xD

Edited June 9, 2018 by Jesseriah

[Elusive_Thing]

"Statistics out of their heads"

LMAO

 

Yeah. Definitely.

Love all you "What??!?!?!" posters. Typical fotm players defending their op class :'D

All i need is to take a look ingame to see how many people playing Operatives, PTs and healsorcs in rated bgs. You literally see nothing else in rated but ok. "WHATTTTTT" xD

Oh, that proves it.