Maybe it's time to move to a full F2P model

[Cowoline]

Some players come and go - the game is but a passing fancy to them. When they come and bloviate about why we all need to know they're leaving, I usually just tune them out (even where they have valid points).

 

Others, like Porsa, very obviously care a great deal about this game and making it better. They offer feedback and suggestions and contribute in many ways. Think of them as "investors." These are the players that BENEFIT the game and the forums. We should want them to stay. I can't see any basis for belittling her (him? -dunno) when they express disappointment about things in the game. The main reason being that their disappointment is not outlandish and petulant (i.e. if you want my sub, give me 6 new ops every year!). But rather it's reasonable: if you want my sub, pls fix what you broke. If you can't do that, at least give me a good reason why.

 

I could go on, but that's about enough. We need to be able to distinguish between these two camps of players generally...

 

Well said.

[PorsaLindahl]

Some players come and go - the game is but a passing fancy to them. When they come and bloviate about why we all need to know they're leaving, I usually just tune them out (even where they have valid points).

 

Others, like Porsa, very obviously care a great deal about this game and making it better. They offer feedback and suggestions and contribute in many ways. Think of them as "investors." These are the players that BENEFIT the game and the forums. We should want them to stay. I can't see any basis for belittling her (him? -dunno) when they express disappointment about things in the game. The main reason being that their disappointment is not outlandish and petulant (i.e. if you want my sub, give me 6 new ops every year!). But rather it's reasonable: if you want my sub, pls fix what you broke. If you can't do that, at least give me a good reason why.

 

I could go on, but that's about enough. We need to be able to distinguish between these two camps of players generally...

 

I appreciate the sentiments. But this "investor" has had enough, I'm sorry to say.

[translucentwolf]

I appreciate the sentiments. But this "investor" has had enough, I'm sorry to say.

 

Yeah... so. You've done your 'I'm unsub' thing again. This is the 2nd month in a row. We get it. You're *really* leaving.

 

Anyway, you've done it again. And surprise, surprise. You want the entire game to be free, now that you're no longer paying.

 

Self serving much, dude?

Edited April 4, 2018 by translucentwolf

[Cowoline]

This statement only shows your ignorance of what a true, and successful, F2P model can be. Move along.

 

Look out people, I got my one feeling hurt . You say you have no interest in playing the game - fair enough. But then why would you care if it's F2P or not? If this is really true, then you are complaining simply to complain. It's not very useful and doesn't contribute to anything other than stating that you are annoyed - which, while fair enough, does absolutely no difference when you don't even want to play the game if it was free. And so I am forced to ask? Why did you make the post?

Also, something that you need to understand is that not all models work for all games or companies. You can't just transfer one method to another game and expect results. It doesn't work that way. And you believing that it will won't change reality.

[JattaGin]

Since BW seems to be more interested in spending the majority of their development time creating eye candy and neglecting / ignoring their paying customers, maybe they need to move to a full F2P and let the Cartel Market support the game. At least with a F2P model you don't have to worry about pissing off paying customers.

 

They certainly aren't getting any more money from me due to this idiotic conquest system. They fooled me last week into thinking it was somewhat fixed to a bearable level. After logging in and looking over the conquest objectives for this week, I just logged off and cancelled again.

 

Spot-on. Full F2P should come asap. It's the only fair way now after their huge fail with the latest sub promotion. They cannot fix this disaster in any other satisfying way. However, it will not happen. Reasonable decisions are not part of their plan.

[Eshvara]

But you're paying something for nothing basically. ESO , GW2, Black Desert, gives you more content than swtor and you don't have to pay a cent for a monthly fee. Thats the question, even if insignificant, why do you feel the need to give away money for nothing in return? When they are putting your money into Anthem. lol

 

I'm not putting my money into Anthem, whoever decides where the money goes does that. I'm paying for a service I want to pay for at this time. And I'm getting exactly what I'm paying for. Don't get me wrong, I'd love more content and more content frequently, but so far it doesn't seem to be happening. I do however still enjoy being a part of this game and its community, and with the hope that things will get better, for me, it's worth paying for.

 

So yeah, that's "why" When I no longer feel that way, I'll take my leave, without any goodbye threads or whatsoever.

(Not that there's anything wrong with making one, it's just not my thing, but you do you.)

 

[translucentwolf]

Spot-on. Full F2P should come asap. It's the only fair way now after their huge fail with the latest sub promotion. They cannot fix this disaster in any other satisfying way. However, it will not happen. Reasonable decisions are not part of their plan.

 

Nice. Bioware gives companions away to new subs, and so now you want the full game, free.

 

The entitlement is strong with this one.

[SaerethDL]

It helps me understand why most people have a very poor grasp on what it takes to run a business. Neither you or I knows what it costs to run this game. The fee they have to pay for the franchise alone, since they have to "rent it". Not to mention the amount of story they do and voice actors they have to pay for compared to many other titles. And if you don't think its fair, then unsub and go F2P. Peoples expectations are unrealistic and often their complaints come across as being a little narrow minded.

 

It's a little narrow minded to assume that SWTOR wouldn't prosper under a new payment model. ESO for example was struggling when it was subscription based. When they went buy 2 play the whole world opened up to them, their player base amplified, their revenue amplified, and it basically saved them from an early disaster. Economics 101, the more people you have visiting your shop or the more people you have playing your game.. the more people that are likely to invest in the cash shop and other additional content. .. I think this could very well help SWTOR last longer and have a lot more population to play with. Wouldn't you like a bigger playerbase, more content, and swtor to live longer? I know I would. You are making assumptions that going b2p would hurt swtor, when we both really have no clue what it would do, just observations.

[translucentwolf]

not exactly, people want a fair deal.. look at eso, gw2, black desert and many other b2p mmo's.. how are they getting away with not paying a subscription fee but still having the servers up and running, lots of content, and high population. you have to ask the question, why are we stuck in the stone age and getting shafted when so many other modern day mmo's have a better deal, better plan. Why should we be paying extra? How is that FAIR compared to the rest of the market? Especially when you aren't getting much for your sub fee and hardly any content.

 

But you're paying something for nothing basically. ESO , GW2, Black Desert, gives you more content than swtor and you don't have to pay a cent for a monthly fee. Thats the question, even if insignificant, why do you feel the need to give away money for nothing in return? When they are putting your money into Anthem. lol

 

Pimping the kpop mmo pretty hard man.

 

You phone up the managers for any of those brands, and check to see if they have to may continuous payments in order to keep using the IP?

 

I didn't think so.

[Cowoline]

Nice. Bioware gives companions away to new subs, and so now you want the full game, free.

 

The entitlement is strong with this one.

 

Lmao! It seems to be growing stronger

 

Also, wasn't this the OP who had the "Do this or else!" thread. I doubt they had their demands met, so why are they still around? Interesting tactics - using hollow threats.

[PorsaLindahl]

Yeah... so. You've done your 'I'm unsub' thing again. This is the 2nd month in a row. We get it. You're *really* leaving.

 

Anyway, you've done it again. And surprise, surprise. You want the entire game to be free, now that you're no longer paying.

 

Self serving much, dude?

 

Check all you like. I did cancel last month. But if you want the answers you're looking for, then you will have to go looking for them instead of stalking me in various threads making your snide comments.

 

Look out people, I got my one feeling hurt . You say you have no interest in playing the game - fair enough. But then why would you care if it's F2P or not? If this is really true, then you are complaining simply to complain. It's not very useful and doesn't contribute to anything other than stating that you are annoyed - which, while fair enough, does absolutely no difference when you don't even want to play the game if it was free. And so I am forced to ask? Why did you make the post?

Also, something that you need to understand is that not all models work for all games or companies. You can't just transfer one method to another game and expect results. It doesn't work that way. And you believing that it will won't change reality.

 

Why? Because I am annoyed. And BW doesn't show that they give a damn about their long term subscribers. All they're interested in is the Cartel Market and every so often pushing people to subscribe for a special toy or companion. It's like they don't have any long-term care for subscriptions. It's all short-term cash grabs. And it's been getting worse each year.

 

So while I, for one, won't play the game in the state it's in, let alone pay for it, there are those that would.

[translucentwolf]

we both really have no clue

 

Agreed.

[Joonbeams]

I'm not putting my money into Anthem, whoever decides where the money goes does that. I'm paying for a service I want to pay for at this time. And I'm getting exactly what I'm paying for. Don't get me wrong, I'd love more content and more content frequently, but so far it doesn't seem to be happening. I do however still enjoy being a part of this game and its community, and with the hope that things will get better, for me, it's worth paying for.

 

So yeah, that's "why" When I no longer feel that way, I'll take my leave, without any goodbye threads or whatsoever.

(Not that there's anything wrong with making one, it's just not my thing, but you do you.)

 

 

Pretty much where I am too. Would love way more stuff and things, would love better communication, etc. But at the current price point, plus CM as needed, I still feel like I'm getting plenty of entertainment compared to many other things. Heck, it's like <$0.50/day. I can't even get a bad redbox rental at that price! This is why I'm prolly here till the servers shut down, because it's hard for me to imagine not finding 50 cents of mindless entertainment a day here...

[Cowoline]

You are making assumptions that going b2p would hurt swtor, when we both really have no clue what it would do, just observations.

 

That was exactly my point. People make assumptions about F2P always working, about money being showed into Anthem and about them earning enough money of the cartel market to finance. You yourself stated all these things, and I am merely telling you that you might be wrong

 

I have my sub, but I have never ever bought a single cartel coin. So should the game go F2P they would loose the revenue from me and a bunch of others.

[SaerethDL]

Pimping the kpop mmo pretty hard man.

 

You phone up the managers for any of those brands, and check to see if they have to may continuous payments in order to keep using the IP?

 

I didn't think so.

 

How do you know they make continuous payments for the rights to star wars? I couldn't find anything on google at least in my small time looking. How do you know they didn't make one large static payment for the rights to produce star wars content for 10 years? And so what? They star wars name SELLS the games for them 10 fold thats why they paid for the contract! duh. but let's all feel sorry for them, they need all the money they can get

[Cowoline]

Check all you like. I did cancel last month. But if you want the answers you're looking for, then you will have to go looking for them instead of stalking me in various threads making your snide comments.

 

 

 

Why? Because I am annoyed. And BW doesn't show that they give a damn about their long term subscribers. All they're interested in is the Cartel Market and every so often pushing people to subscribe for a special toy or companion. It's like they don't have any long-term care for subscriptions. It's all short-term cash grabs. And it's been getting worse each year.

 

So while I, for one, won't play the game in the state it's in, let alone pay for it, there are those that would.

 

But shouldn't you have left by now, though? I remember you making a post saying "Do this or I'll unsub" or something like it. Obviously they didn't, but you still access the forums. One has to wonder.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Cowoline

[translucentwolf]

So while I, for one, won't play the game in the state it's in, let alone pay for it, there are those that would.

 

Yes, and most of the people you see posting are, in fact, paying for the game. A few of us actually enjoy the game.

 

You've gone unsub. Can you please now leave the rest of us to play the game, since you no longer have any interest?

[SaerethDL]

That was exactly my point. People make assumptions about F2P always working, about money being showed into Anthem and about them earning enough money of the cartel market to finance. You yourself stated all these things, and I am merely telling you that you might be wrong

 

I have my sub, but I have never ever bought a single cartel coin. So should the game go F2P they would loose the revenue from me and a bunch of others.

 

Well then you really don't want to support the game to begin with now do you They can always have an optional sub for those that want to keep a subscription my friend, give them perks like free cartel coins and xp boost.

[translucentwolf]

Well then you really don't want to support the game to begin with now do you They can always have an optional sub for those that want to keep a subscription my friend, give them perks like free cartel coins and xp boost.

 

They do. Subs get 500 ( or 600 with security key ) coins a month. And subs gain xp at a faster rate than F2P players.

 

So, your statements are invalid.

 

Fascinating. Do go on.

[PorsaLindahl]

But shouldn't you have left by now, though? I remember you making a post saying "Do this or I'll unsub" or something like it. Obviously they didn't, but you still access the forums. One has to wonder.

 

Wonder all you like. Do some research and you'll find your answer and you can stop trolling.

[Cowoline]

Well then you really don't want to support the game to begin with now do you They can always have an optional sub for those that want to keep a subscription my friend, give them perks like free cartel coins and xp boost.

 

lol! Interesting deduction if nothing else I want to pay for the game and for the extra services that come with being a subscriber. I just rarely have any interest in anything on the cartel market - so I don't buy them.

 

As for what you are suggesting: Isn't that very bloody close to what they are already doing?

[SaerethDL]

They do. Subs get 500 ( or 600 with security key ) coins a month. And subs gain xp at a faster rate than F2P players.

 

So, your statements are invalid.

 

Fascinating. Do go on.

 

i know they do? what are you talking about? Let them keep the cartel coins or increase them, let them keep the xp bonus, and give them so more bonuses to go with that.. f2p or b2p wouldn't get those bonuses.. can you grasp that? boy you like to argue! lmao

[Andryah]

How do you know they make continuous payments for the rights to star wars? I couldn't find anything on google at least in my small time looking. How do you know they didn't make one large static payment for the rights to produce star wars content for 10 years? And so what? They star wars name SELLS the games for them 10 fold thats why they paid for the contract! duh. but let's all feel sorry for them, they need all the money they can get

 

This is an easy one to answer.

 

The original license agreement was with LucasArts... who was notorious for both an up front fee PLUS royalties based on a percentage of revenue. Now.. with Disney... even more so as Disney is all about pass through royalties on their IP. And NO... Bioware (pre-EA acquisition) would not agree to a huge up front payment in advance in lieu of post release royalties... because that would be an incredibly stupid thing for a studio to do as it means they take all the risks. These sorts of agreements are "shared risk, shared reward" style agreements. Under the broader 10 year agreement between EA and Disney... it is not likely at all that large upfront payments with little or no revenue based royalties would ever be agreed to by the two companies.

 

Will you find this specifically disclosed in detail on the internet for SWTOR? No.... because these sorts of agreements are kept under NDA for life. But it is not hard to spend a little time searching for the history of how LucasArts and now Disney manage their IP revenue streams.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Andryah

[PorsaLindahl]

Yes, and most of the people you see posting are, in fact, paying for the game. A few of us actually enjoy the game.

 

You've gone unsub. Can you please now leave the rest of us to play the game, since you no longer have any interest?

 

I'm not stopping you, or anyone, from playing the game. This isn't the game. This is the forums. And I'll post until I lose my privileges. I'll continue to post my displeasure as I see fit. It's not your call. These vain attempts at trolling, on your part, are pretty pathetic.

[Pscyon]

How do you know they make continuous payments for the rights to star wars? I couldn't find anything on google at least in my small time looking. How do you know they didn't make one large static payment for the rights to produce star wars content for 10 years? And so what? They star wars name SELLS the games for them 10 fold thats why they paid for the contract! duh. but let's all feel sorry for them, they need all the money they can get

The IP license is rented for a chunk of years at a time. Don't remember spesifically how long the terms are, but 4 or more iirc. Browsing around for "EA" and "Star Wars license" might get you the results you're looking for. So no, it's not continuous payments, but they don't have the license till the end of time either. When SWG shut down it wasn't only because the game wasn't doing great, it was also because the Star Wars license was expiring and SOE didn't want to keep paying for something that wasn't very profitable.