Conquest Feedback and Upcoming Changes

[PorsaLindahl]

I agree, even though i dont see then doing it before then, waiting until 5.9 to change further is a bad idea. These point values are an insult even with the increased spammability and lowered objectives.

 

Not only the point values, but I'm in with those that are complaining about the legacy one-off objectives. I can feasibly do 2 characters conquest goal. I have 37 characters.

 

On that note, as I said already in another thread: It's too little, too late. It's just not worth paying for a broken untested system. Monitor and discuss that.

Edited March 27, 2018 by PorsaLindahl

[DuchessKristania]

The only thing that needed to be changed for conquest was the addition of a guild goal so that smaller guilds could get the rewards without the leaderboards. They could have simply added that and it would have made life so much easier for players. This massive debacle of a revamp wasn't what anyone wanted. Now, it's harder for everyone and has taken all the fun out of conquest.

[Mdgshorty]

The only thing that needed to be changed for conquest was the addition of a guild goal so that smaller guilds could get the rewards without the leaderboards. They could have simply added that and it would have made life so much easier for players. This massive debacle of a revamp wasn't what anyone wanted. Now, it's harder for everyone and has taken all the fun out of conquest.

 

+1

 

I do not normally complain that often. I enjoyed the old system and I always looked forward to conquest and now that is not the case. I am trying to like the new system, but I am having a hard time to enjoying it in its current state.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Mdgshorty

[Lhancelot]

The only thing that needed to be changed for conquest was the addition of a guild goal so that smaller guilds could get the rewards without the leaderboards. They could have simply added that and it would have made life so much easier for players. This massive debacle of a revamp wasn't what anyone wanted. Now, it's harder for everyone and has taken all the fun out of conquest.

 

This is 5.0, version 2. Destroying one perfectly working part of the game and replacing it with an inferior crappy system that not one player enjoys.

 

I never ran across any posts indicating widespread unhappiness with conquest. I never had one conversation with a player who complained passionately about how conquest needed a total revamping.

 

Why even go through all this work if they supposedly are spread so thin with resources etc.?

 

What data did they collect which indicated such a monumental change needed to be implemented?

 

Why not improve parts of the game that are actually suffering?

 

Questions we will never get answers to.

 

The only thing this patch accomplished was furthering the ruination of SWTOR and angering/disappointing tons of fans and players of the game. If that was the mission, congrats then. Mission accomplished.

 

To be constructive here, they would need to bump up the rewards and allow alts to contribute conquest individually as they did before. In essence, revert back to the system that actually fulfilled players and made them happy.

 

SWTOR never does this though. Ever. Once a bad patch is dumped in, it stays.

 

I find it annoying how much attention the thread on the CM gets yellow text responses yet all the threads regarding conquest, an actual part of the gameplay is heavily ignored.

[KendraP]

Not only the point values, but I'm in with those that are complaining about the legacy one-off objectives. I can feasibly do 2 characters conquest goal. I have 37 characters.

 

On that note, as I said already in another thread: It's too little, too late. It's just not worth paying for a broken untested system. Monitor and discuss that.

 

Yeah related issues, i havr around 50 toons and used to cap 5-15 of them depending on the week.

[Djake]

Subscription Ends 3/31/18

[PorsaLindahl]

Posted this in another thread, but thought it would be more appropriate over here.

 

I did my own maths and came up with this, just for TOTAL GALACTIC WAR (because the objectives will probably change week by week) with 150% SH bonus:

 

Character 1:

• FP weekly = 7500
  
• 5 FP daily = 1625
  
• 2 weeklies = 6000
  
• Total Points = 15125
  

 

Character 2:

• PVP weekly = 7500
  
• PVP Daily = 4260*
  
• 1 weekly = 3000
  
• Total Points = 14760*
  

 

Character 3:

• 5 FP Daily = 1625
  
• PVP Daily = 4260*
  
• 3 weeklies = 9000
  
• Total Points = 14885*
  

 

* Worst case scenario. Points are based on no wins in PvP. The missing points could be covered by 1 win, a remaining weekly or a FP daily.

 

This would also put a major crimp in my play since it would:

1. Cause me to follow a strict plan to complete conquest on specific characters to make sure the points go to the right place.
   
2. Limit playing alts. Especially the ones that are not CL 300 because I wouldn't be able to do the weeklies with them until they were already completed by the characters selected to complete conquest. A lot of times I'll log on a random character and go do weeklies, etc. Now I won't be able to without it affecting my other characters.
   

[dryving]

Our guild never reacted this way with any other changes over the past few years, but we are actively discussing options to move to another game. This did it for us. We love Star Wars, and have enjoyed this game, but even with the update today it's just one bad decision by the devs too many. I know alot of it has to do with budget and manpower, but still....

 

Just talking with some of the players that give real, fact-based evaluations with real numbers in the forums is all you need to do before these changes....or learn to do some basic math on the time it will take. Your big CXP rewards, even for the largest planets, can be gotten in just an hour or two with the weeklies. They need to be 3 or 4 times that given the amount of effort that it takes to hit a conquest target now. Add Refined Isotopes in there as well.

 

Even when Galactic Command came out we still looked past it and enjoyed the game...however these kinds of changes with no apparent benefit to anyone have just taken any enthusiasm we had for the game and thrown it out the window.

 

It's been a good run, but for us it feels like the end of the road for SWTOR.

[TrixxieTriss]

D'oh! I'm always premature

 

That’s what she said

[TrixxieTriss]

While the change to pvp is a step in the right direction, you’ve still got a long way to go to get my household to resub.

* Get rid of once per legacy objectives and make it - Once per character - this applies to the pvp once legacy wins.

* More things needed to be added for flash points

* Crafting still needs to be fixed. As it is, the rewards aren’t worth the mats to use and the mats are nearly impossible to obtain in the week

* Make it Alt friendly again. Until you do, participation will be low and so will people resubbing.

Edited March 27, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[PorsaLindahl]

While the change to pvp is a step in the right direction, you’ve still got a long way to go to get my household to resub.

* Get rid of once per legacy objectives and make it - Once per character - this applies to the pvp once legacy wins.

* More things needed to be added for flash points

* Crafting still needs to be fixed. As it is, the rewards aren’t worth the mats to use and the mats are nearly impossible to obtain in the week

* Make it Alt friendly again. Until you do, participation will be low and so will people resubbing.

 

Actually thought about reactivating my sub for another month since I'd be able to do 3 characters this week. But now it's a matter of principle. If I resub, BW will have my sub to include in their numbers and take it to think they won me over, when in fact it's the total opposite.

 

Now my requirements are down to this to get my household's subs back:

Change that idiotic one time per legacy to one time per character.

[Caferal]

So this week it's Total Galactic War. It's a crafting week, so I was trying to find repeatable craft objectives. I didn't find any (except donate 10 invasion force, but that's just a joke).

I have a question : is crafting weeks completey removed from conquest? Is there repeatable crafting objectives for Iokath, titans of Industry and trade emporium?

I was angry at Bioware because of the new schematic for war supplies with every grade mats combined. But if there's no repeatable objectives for crafting war supplies , it doesn't matter anyway. You just completely destroyed crafting conquest and with it the small chance for smaller guilds to ever win a conquest.

And I don't understand why you're saying that with the revamp it would be more fair for smaller guilds. It's not

And the worst thing is that you didn't warn us. For months we were gathering mats and we were almost ready to go against larger guilds in a crafting conquest.

Last week we could craft 40k war supplies. Now we can't even craft one. And there is no more conquest points for crafting war supplies anyway.

So what are we going to do with all our mats now? We spend a lot of time, credits, energy, and even real money for those. What are we going to do with that now?

Can I sue you because you didn't warn us? I certainly want to. There is no way you can do that with impunity.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Caferal

[PorsaLindahl]

Can I sue you because you didn't warn us? I certainly want to. There is no way you can do that with impunity.

 

Unfortunately no. I'm sure a lot of people would if they could.

 

And yes, they can. It's not smart on their part, but they can. They can come on the forums and say they're shutting down the game tomorrow and the best you can hope for is a refund for any unused sub time.

[hooty]

Subbed since launch. No real new content that interests me in sight. New conquests system still just terrible (even though it's slightly better this week it's not nearly good enough to be playable for me). All my guilds dead or on life support. No chance of ever getting guild rewards without crafting. Little chance of getting personal rewards on more than 1-2 toons/week without crafting. Been through the "guilds dead->find new guilds" cycle too many times now. What incentive is there to do it again? To play the current "content"? To quote Bill The Cat "Pfffffft". Leveled 50+ toons, but even altoholics have limits. Unfortunately I'm paid up through July. Anthem fans have until then to thank me for paying for their game.

[Caferal]

Unfortunately no. I'm sure a lot of people would if they could.

 

And yes, they can. It's not smart on their part, but they can. They can come on the forums and say they're shutting down the game tomorrow and the best you can hope for is a refund for any unused sub time.

 

Well, they let us pay for something they knew would become worthless, and didn't tell us anything.

To me, it's a con

Edited March 28, 2018 by Caferal

[DaemionMoadrin]

BioWare, what are you doing?!

 

We told you what's necessary to fix conquest and win us back and you ignored us. Again. Do even care anymore?

 

Have you even looked at the current conquest objectives? Have you thought about the logic of it? It's super awesome that completing one weekly PvP mission gives 7500 points, but what about the other 3 missions?

And then this is once per legacy? Seriously guys?

 

Participation in warzones used to be 250, now it's 85.

Participation in GSF used to be 500, now it's 85.

 

Even with full bonus you'd need ~71 matches to complete conquest. Let's say a match takes 10min on average, that makes 710min, that's almost 12h.

 

Conquest on each char shouldn't take longer than 3, maybe 4 hours. This is a casual game, the average player won't invest a dozen hours per char for this. Yes, the first ~3 chars will have an easier job but even then you need plan ahead and make sure you don't accidently complete something another character needs.

 

BioWare, please explain to me why you thought turning Conquest into an alt unfriendly chore was a good idea? I simply do not see the logic in your decisions.

Do you actually want us to grind for it? Are we being forced to play what you want us to play? Where's our choice?

 

This is a game. Why are you making it difficult to enjoy it? Why do you hate fun?

 

Your new system failed, the numbers are off and the rewards are pathetic compared to the necessary effort.

 

Remove the legacy restrictions and at least double the points for warzones, GSF, flashpoints and uprisings. That'll give you time to come up with a better system.

 

For additional facepalm, look who's trying for Taris this week. Hint: None of the big guilds. Those went for the medium and small planet again. (Darth Malgus)

 

Maybe stop putting so many resources into the Cartel Market and get on making the game itself more attractive again. The better the game, the more people play it and the more they spend money on it. Your longterm strategy should always favour the game itself because that's how you make the most profit. If you instead concentrate on your cartel market, then that source of income will run dry as soon as the players leave the game.

Again, BioWare, what are you doing?

 

... it's like you want this game to fail and end.

[Aderes]

[2cents]

Ok so I have a plan worked out on how to do this on multiple toons, but it means I'm going to have to work my *** off... and that is EXACTLY what I DO NOT want to do in a GAME!!!

 

I need to:

(@150% stronghold bonus)

Do the VM and MM Flashpoint Dailies for 6 days (thats 12 flashpoints) .......... 3900

Do the SM and VM Uprising Dailies for 6 days (that's 12 uprisings) ................. 3900 (7800)

Run Either 34 GSFs or PvP matches and hope for wins ................................ 7242 (15042)

 

Each Flashpoint run will take average of about 30 minutes with a random group ... 1 hr per day (+ cue time)

Each Uprising run will take an average of about 20minutes with a random group ... 40m per day (+ cue time)

Each PvP match will take roughly ~20m to complete (34/6 = ~6 per day ................ 2hrs per day (+cue time)

 

----- THAT IS PER CHARACTER I WANT TO GET TO 15K -----

 

My Schedule:

Work: 9 hrs... Teach Children: 6 hrs (some hours blend with work)... Daily Errands/Commutes: 3 Hrs... Sleep: 4-6 hrs... Effective Game time: 2 hours. (that's the 24 hours, weekends excluded ... more time to game, but only 2 days to get dailies, etc.)

 

Before it was possible for me to get some conquest done for my guild... During some events, up to 20 personals sometimes because I could effectively manage the time and also do lots on a weekend with my alts.

I consider myself a casual player.

I guess the filthy casuals like us will be finding a better game, eh?

 

People like me play a game to unwind and have fun... not resume the grind we just left at the work that actually PAYS US.

 

[/2cents]

[Sareeph]

[2cents]

Ok so I have a plan worked out on how to do this on multiple toons, but it means I'm going to have to work my *** off... and that is EXACTLY what I DO NOT want to do in a GAME!!!

 

I need to:

(@150% stronghold bonus)

Do the VM and MM Flashpoint Dailies for 6 days (thats 12 flashpoints) .......... 3900

Do the SM and VM Uprising Dailies for 6 days (that's 12 uprisings) ................. 3900 (7800)

Run Either 34 GSFs or PvP matches and hope for wins ................................ 7242 (15042)

 

Each Flashpoint run will take average of about 30 minutes with a random group ... 1 hr per day (+ cue time)

Each Uprising run will take an average of about 20minutes with a random group ... 40m per day (+ cue time)

Each PvP match will take roughly ~20m to complete (34/6 = ~6 per day ................ 2hrs per day (+cue time)

 

----- THAT IS PER CHARACTER I WANT TO GET TO 15K -----

 

My Schedule:

Work: 9 hrs... Teach Children: 6 hrs (some hours blend with work)... Daily Errands/Commutes: 3 Hrs... Sleep: 4-6 hrs... Effective Game time: 2 hours. (that's the 24 hours, weekends excluded ... more time to game, but only 2 days to get dailies, etc.)

 

Before it was possible for me to get some conquest done for my guild... During some events, up to 20 personals sometimes because I could effectively manage the time and also do lots on a weekend with my alts.

I consider myself a casual player.

I guess the filthy casuals like us will be finding a better game, eh?

 

People like me play a game to unwind and have fun... not resume the grind we just left at the work that actually PAYS US.

 

[/2cents]

 

You missed the Critical Missions that are worth 7500 ea.

[TrixxieTriss]

Unfortunately no. I'm sure a lot of people would if they could.

 

And yes, they can. It's not smart on their part, but they can. They can come on the forums and say they're shutting down the game tomorrow and the best you can hope for is a refund for any unused sub time.

 

Some new Shiny, look over here and forget about that - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=946622

This says it all

[Aderes]

You missed the Critical Missions that are worth 7500 ea.

 

No, I purposefully left those out because they are legacy oriented (not repeatable on multiple toons for conquest purposes) and will happen by doing this grind and will be extra points.

 

I highlighted a repeatable method by which every toon would be able to achieve conquest without having to depend on a once-per-legacy item.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Aderes

[TrixxieTriss]

Actually thought about reactivating my sub for another month since I'd be able to do 3 characters this week. But now it's a matter of principle. If I resub, BW will have my sub to include in their numbers and take it to think they won me over, when in fact it's the total opposite.

 

Now my requirements are down to this to get my household's subs back:

Change that idiotic one time per legacy to one time per character.

 

That’s exactly what we discussed in our house hold. I enjoy even had an argument with my wife to convince her not to resub to partake in this CM scam to deflect our attention. Even though she really wants a few things, she understands that if we reward bad behaviour they will never learn.

So we are staying unsubbed until they earn the right for us to resub.

Edited March 28, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[HKtheindomitable]

lol like it was copied from Ben and pasted by Keith lol...

 

It was copied and pasted from E.A. by Ben. So you expect less? This isn't saying Ben or Keith agree with it, but their E.A. overlord has decreed it, and they must obey.

 

Okay, on a serious note:

 

Frankly, I'm disappointed by the current setup. The "one per toon, per legacy, per day" thing is one of the two glaring issues. The points being the second. If it is to be limiting so that those with little can compete better with those that have much, this is extreme. Change it to a limit of 5 or 10 toons. That's much better.

 

The points are... I get why they're low, but I'm not sure about the current state of it. I can't say.

 

The problem folks have with crafting is really silly, but only to an extent. Crafting did contribute far too much to conquest before. Those with wads of cash were out performing those that didn't, and that was no fun. However, the other conquest objectives aren't setup to compensate for this loss. The other objectives are doable by all, with ease, without spending tons of credits. There's no incentive to do these tasks that require more effort than simply sitting around doing nothing. In fact, the crafting rewards still give more than the FP, Uprising, WZ, GSF tasks. The crafting ones are also seemingly backwards (donating 10 war supplies gives less than crafting one?!).

 

The perception is that this can be resolved easily by swapping the points around. Running group missions should give more points than crafting, by a lot. Infinitely repeatable should obviously give less than daily, and considerably less than weekly. They also need to be repeatable more times than they are, by more toons. This last point is definite. Perhaps they don't need to have a point increase, but being repeatable more than they are would go a long way.

 

I get that the system needs some tuning, and that this takes time. I understand that I don't see everything and that sometimes what's needed, isn't what we want. These are undeniable facts. However, it must be pointed out that the company backing this game (E.A.) constantly makes very poor decisions, and has earned a "worst company" title. This causes us to question how much players are being listened to.

[PorsaLindahl]

Well, they let us pay for something they knew would become worthless, and didn't tell us anything.

To me, it's a con

 

That's why I cancelled. I refuse to pay to beta test such a broken system and wait months for them to monitor and discuss what needs to be fixed. They already know what needs to be fixed. They don't need to monitor anything except how many subs have dropped off in the last week, and how many more are going to be dropping in the immediate future.

[TrixxieTriss]

It was copied and pasted from E.A. by Ben. So you expect less? This isn't saying Ben or Keith agree with it, but their E.A. overlord has decreed it, and they must obey.

 

Okay, on a serious note:

 

Frankly, I'm disappointed by the current setup. The "one per toon, per legacy, per day" thing is one of the two glaring issues. The points being the second. If it is to be limiting so that those with little can compete better with those that have much, this is extreme. Change it to a limit of 5 or 10 toons. That's much better.

 

The points are... I get why they're low, but I'm not sure about the current state of it. I can't say.

 

The problem folks have with crafting is really silly, but only to an extent. Crafting did contribute far too much to conquest before. Those with wads of cash were out performing those that didn't, and that was no fun. However, the other conquest objectives aren't setup to compensate for this loss. The other objectives are doable by all, with ease, without spending tons of credits. There's no incentive to do these tasks that require more effort than simply sitting around doing nothing. In fact, the crafting rewards still give more than the FP, Uprising, WZ, GSF tasks. The crafting ones are also seemingly backwards (donating 10 war supplies gives less than crafting one?!).

 

The perception is that this can be resolved easily by swapping the points around. Running group missions should give more points than crafting, by a lot. Infinitely repeatable should obviously give less than daily, and considerably less than weekly. They also need to be repeatable more times than they are, by more toons. This last point is definite. Perhaps they don't need to have a point increase, but being repeatable more than they are would go a long way.

 

I get that the system needs some tuning, and that this takes time. I understand that I don't see everything and that sometimes what's needed, isn't what we want. These are undeniable facts. However, it must be pointed out that the company backing this game (E.A.) constantly makes very poor decisions, and has earned a "worst company" title. This causes us to question how much players are being listened to.

 

The sentiment behind the changes maybe right... but the execution is half baked at best,

 

I agree conquest was too heavily focused on crafting, but it should never have been nerfed this much or restricting it to make it Alt unfriendly.

If they were going to nerf it this much for Alts, they should have made everything else more Alt friendly, not less friendly.

 

Nothing should be once per legacy. If they want to restrict it, then they can still make it once per character and not spammable.

 

In my experience in business and even way back when I was at school in the 80’s learning basic coding, we learnt to use flow charts to find cause and affect when designing a project. In all the years I’ve played this game, it seems they get half way through a chart (if they even use one) and then stop. They never follow something through to the final stages of the flow chart. It’s why things always seem half finished or we get these problems that blind Freddy could see coming a mile away, but which Bioware can’t or they just don’t care. Jobs are always half done and then they are onto the next one and nothing gets done to fix the last one.

 

I think it’s an inground culture or procedure in the swtor project team that they never seem to revise or even examine the process when things don’t end up where they should have. I doubt they even have an internal review of why things go so wrong for when they mess up. All they do is double down on the mistake, they never apologise or admit they made a mistake. Which leads me to believe that they never think they make mistakes and we are all wrong.

 

One would think that when something of this magnitude happens and they get massive player blow back, that they do a serious internal review and look at where they went wrong before continuing to proceed with anything else they are working on. They should fix one mistake and the process that lead to it before proceeding to the next one and using the same flawed process of deciding what the effects will be when they release it. We shouldn’t be guinea pigs or beta testers for their bad decisions. An internal review of what went wrong with this and how they can make sure they avoid it again should be their number 1. Agenda, not CM stuff. The number 2 thing should be how to fix this mess as fast as they can so people don’t stop playing or cancelling and it doesn’t make a mess of 5.9 and beyond.

Edited March 28, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Hautamacky]

Eric and Keith,

 

That was now in the conquest is in it's better but still not good enough the Weekly quests for flashpoints, insurgency, war zones and GSF are only once per legacy that's ****.

 

What is not good have already mentioned some are the points for Flashpointfinder, Aufstandfinder a round war zones and GSF a bit too few, which I think is good with the 10 times war zones and Ranket points are 10 GSF games are not extra points ,

 

Here are my suggestions as the points could look like without fortress bonus:

 

War zones Games 200

Ranked Games 200

GSF Games 200

Flashpoint Finder 500

Riot Finder 400

Flashpoint Both Weekly 1000

All rebellion Weekly 800

War zones weekly 500

Ranked Weekly 800

you can leave the rest like that.

 

The only thing you did not change is the war supplies.

For the war supplies it would be better if you made it similar to the beginning of the conquest making two kinds of war supplies for one you need mats of 2 to 5 degrees for the other 6 to 9 degrees and you can raise the mats for a supply ,