Why NO KILL option on Ashara?

[Estelindis]

Bioware made it possible to kill Leliana in DA:O and she was their bae, so I think anything is possible, really..

But if killed in DA:O they bring her back from the dead. Either way, she appears in DA2 and gets a substantial role again in DA:I. With the greatest of respect, I don't think the example of Leliana proves what you think it does here.

[IoNonSoEVero]

You DO know that Leliana was brought back to life by the Maker and is at the end of DA2 and is one of your character's main advisors in DA:I, right? Right?

 

So MY point still stands that BW will keep Lana safe. FFS, BW waved THE HAND OF GOD over their Bae and brought her back to life.

 

I do, but when DA:I originally came out, they let you kill her without automatically bringing her back. If she was dead she was dead for the rest of that story and stayed dead. In DA:I she's back but spends the game hanging out in the cloister for the most part, and isn't romanceable AFAIK.

 

I really think it's going to be a Theron or Lana in the next FP. They've made Lana look like a psycho, that's where they are heading. I actually hope I'm wrong.

[IoNonSoEVero]

But if killed in DA:O they bring her back from the dead. Either way, she appears in DA2 and gets a substantial role again in DA:I. With the greatest of respect, I don't think the example of Leliana proves what you think it does here.

 

I didn't say they couldn't retcon a character back later - but when DA:O came out, if you killed her she was dead and remained so.

[MikeCobalt]

Maybe, while we may disagree with someone's wishes or opinion, we can just try and at least understand their motives for feeling that way; frustration, disappointment, a sense of feeling like the things you care for are being ripped away one by one. Maybe we can try that instead of judging, instead of making assumptive (and at times wrong) claims toward their motivation. Instead of trying to attack them and companions you know they do care about which is just as spiteful and wrong as you think the OP's post may be.

 

These boards disgust me lately and it feels more and more like it's turning into a cliquey high school playground. One of the other threads is full of assumptions and claims regarding jealousy as a motivation, among others, while no one bothers to listen to the actual reason (whether just or otherwise) someone feels that way. Nope, go ahead, stick to your assumptions about someone you don't even know, your judgment without actually knowing, talk **** about their reasons, mock it, enjoy your childish gossip about haters and 'some people'.

 

Maybe I should start claiming Arcann fans are psychopaths who only want to date him because his disfigured face wets their knickers? Will that make me cool, judging everyone that way, based on nothing but assinine assumptions? Or claim that every guy who wants Kira back must have a fetish for gingers? That those who want Nadia back must love the idea of younger girls with daddy issues? That anyone who dislikes Jaesa must be jealous of her rack? That any man who hates Quinn must be jealous of his firm butt cheeks? (No, none of the above is how I actually think, at all, it's merely examples.)

 

Or maybe it's just time for me to walk away from the forums. It used to bring enjoyment to engage in decent discussion here while awaiting new content updates and kept me revived, tied to the game, but now even that no longer seems possible.

 

Peace.

 

I think the "Comp. Killing" never shoulda been started in the Zakuul story and these recent story directions have fed right into that. Many times I've seen the forums agreeing on the same issues and that's great. Often good threads are started (Your favorite ********, When was your first*********?) and the humor comes and good sense of camaraderie; Its just BW especially lately seems to have stepped on too many "Nerves".

[Estelindis]

I didn't say they couldn't retcon a character back later - but when DA:O came out, if you killed her she was dead and remained so.

I don't think she was really treated with favoritism until that happened... If anything, Morrigan was the starring female companion of DA:O until the camera repivoted around Leliana. No other companion from the first game got as favorable a treatment through the whole trilogy. I mean, if anything, retconning a death is even more of an indication that a character is going to be kept in our stories whether we like it or not.

[grania]

That any man who hates Quinn must be jealous of his firm butt cheeks?

 

*giggle*

 

The forums are pretty weird lately aren't they? I keep taking mini breaks and it helps a bit I suppose. But I don't see things improving much while we're all still fighting tooth and nail to get a scrap of what we want from this game.

 

And who knows, I could be as guilty as anyone else in posting things that make the forums a less plesant place to be, but it's hard to look at my own behavior from another person's perspective.

Edited March 21, 2018 by grania

[Estelindis]

Personally I think there's a sort of cycle of cliquedom here at the moment. I think sometimes it can be difficult to view everyone's posts through a neutral lens, because we remember so-and-so said such-and-such previously, etc. I think the natural antidote if one suspects one might have become a bit cliquey is to reread an "offending" post imagining it was written by a friend and see if it still causes offence. *shrug*

[IoNonSoEVero]

I don't think she was really treated with favoritism until that happened... If anything, Morrigan was the starring female companion of DA:O until the camera repivoted around Leliana. No other companion from the first game got as favorable a treatment through the whole trilogy. I mean, if anything, retconning a death is even more of an indication that a character is going to be kept in our stories whether we like it or not.

 

Yeah, the ritual is kind of the pivotal thing in DA:O IMHO and that's all Morrigan. When did the Leliana's Song expac come out (I got into the DA stories after the fact)? That might have been the defining moment. All I can think is that maybe the character got more interest than they expected.

[Estelindis]

Yeah, the ritual is kind of the pivotal thing in DA:O IMHO and that's all Morrigan. When did the Leliana's Song expac come out (I got into the DA stories after the fact)? That might have been the defining moment. All I can think is that maybe the character got more interest than they expected.

Leliana's Song DLC, IIRC, was released sorta in the middle, after Return to Ostagar but before (the travesty of) Witch Hunt. There were several other forgettable DLCs. I dunno what it was about DA:O DLC, it was mostly terrible - Leliana's Song was the best by far.

 

I dunno if Leliana was unexpectedly popular or expectedly! Maybe the whole situation with Morrigan meant they only had one "leading lady" left to work with.

[AdharaKyleth]

I like Ashara (buts that because I think Togrutas are awesome) but she should have been killable. What SI who hasn't romanced her (or is a pushover) would put up with her behavior? Ideally, their should have been a kill option, and a option to break her to your will (like Jeasa).

[Estelindis]

What SI who hasn't romanced her (or is a pushover) would put up with her behavior?

Someone who considered Ashara a friend? Someone confident enough in themselves to prefer a more able, more equal companion to a subservient acolyte?

 

Personally I don't see what's wrong with a companion showing some bit of independent thought or occasionally not worshipping the ground the main character walks on. But some players (not necessarily saying you) only seem to want lackeys.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Estelindis

[Lunafox]

Um. I actually agree with you on most of this post but I want to point out that I am not a dudebro. LGBT women are actually not generally attracted to the exact same things as straight men, overall. There may be some exceptions but yeah. Not. The. Same. I know you weren't trying to be insulting here but you may wish to avoid this comparison in the future.

 

 

 

Fair enough. But you can at least run around with your normal looking Theron, right (I haven't checked the terminal because I don't need mine back right now, but I hope so, so you can at least use him for heroics and whatnot)?

 

I feel like given everything over the last few flashpoints and story arcs they are making Theron and Lana both unsympathetic as possible and that they might very well want to be all edgy and force another Torian/Vette choice. i don't think much of the writers anymore so I wouldn't put this past them.

 

But as you said, for everyone's sake I hope neither has a kill option. Because then they'll be gone for everyone.

 

I think Bioware is really veering as far away from story as they can, and they'll take any fan excuse to keep going. So I think one of the very dangerous things about insisting on all these kills is that they'll do it - and then there will be nobody left. I've only resubbed far enough to see the next flashpoint because I have zero faith they will do better than they are right now.

 

You're right, I wasn't trying to be insulting or demeaning in any way, it's not my nature, at least not on purpose. What I meant by what I said, is that men are attracted to females, and bi/lesbian women are attracted to females ( I know you're not a dudebro), so I figured they'd have that in common and would have plenty of female companions to choose from in the future cause the game seems to cater to straight men. What qualities LGBTQ people seek specifically, I can't say, because I'm straight, so I apologize, no slights were intended. I never meant to say you are a 'dudebro' only that you may be attracted to the same sex as they are. I will avoid going there in the future.

 

For right now? Yeah I can run with normal looking Theron, but I fear the future. I hope they'll make mods available so all people are happy.

 

I agree with you, I don't think much of the writers they've hired of late either, and have no faith in them, that they'll do right by anything or anyone. I hope we don't have to make that horrid choice ever again. I saved Vette twice and Torian once just to see the difference in story. I just know I don't ever want to do that again.

 

I also agree with you and Misha and the others who feel they're veering from story and companion stuff. I want to see how they handle the resolution to the 'traitor arc' and once my i/g commitments are met if it doesn't turn out as I hope and I have nothing to look forward to, well, decisions will need to be made.

[SithKoriandr]

I like Ashara (buts that because I think Togrutas are awesome) but she should have been killable. What SI who hasn't romanced her (or is a pushover) would put up with her behavior? Ideally, their should have been a kill option, and a option to break her to your will (like Jeasa).

 

What behavior? Her behavior doesn't seem that bad at all if you pick the nicer options and not the "I'm evil and it doesn't make sense people follow me I'm so obviously evil, but they do" option.

[Estelindis]

What behavior? Her behavior doesn't seem that bad at all if you pick the nicer options and not the "I'm evil and it doesn't make sense people follow me I'm so obviously evil, but they do" option.

Yeah, when you could credibly appear like you'd be a crueler ruler than Valkorion, Arcann, or Vaylin, it's hard to imagine people actually gathering an alliance together around you. Like... sure, your strength would be helpful against Zakuul... but what replaces Zakuul would be awful.

[IoNonSoEVero]

What behavior? Her behavior doesn't seem that bad at all if you pick the nicer options and not the "I'm evil and it doesn't make sense people follow me I'm so obviously evil, but they do" option.

 

That's how I feel about her too. Some of the philosophical discussions she has with the SI can get pretty deep if you take some of the options that let her talk. She's been indoctrinated by the Jedi since she was a baby and she's trying to figure stuff out.

[AdharaKyleth]

Someone who considered Ashara a friend? Someone confident enough in themselves to prefer a more able, more equal companion to a subservient acolyte?

 

Personally I don't see what's wrong with a companion showing some bit of independent thought or occasionally not worshipping the ground the main character walks on. But some players (not necessarily saying you) only seem to want lackeys.

Ok, I lied. ( More like stereotyped or something. I can see who, I'm fact my SI is fine with her), but she's treading on dangerous ground, and the player should have options that reflect that.

[AngFour]

Yeah, when you could credibly appear like you'd be a crueler ruler than Valkorion, Arcann, or Vaylin, it's hard to imagine people actually gathering an alliance together around you. Like... sure, your strength would be helpful against Zakuul... but what replaces Zakuul would be awful.

 

I never understood this as well. WHY ON EARTH would Lana unfreeze Darth Nox? Occlus? I can see that. Imperious? Absolutely. But NOX? REALLY? The Get Along Gang would NOT stand behind a tyrant that Nox most likely would be.

[Seaturkey]

Maybe I'm wrong, but the way Ashara is handled just reeks of SJW BS. Think about it: Ashara presents herself as this 'follower turned leader,' who refuses to be viewed as less than an equal to her former (*and most likely male) Master. The SJW crowd would have a hissy fit if this 'strong, independent woman' suddenly submitted to her male counterpart. The SJW trolls would be screaming sexism, despite the utter nonsense of a Sith viewing someone as an equal. As Sith, you're either the Master or the Apprentice, there are no equals, but we can't upset the SJW crowd, no matter now nonsensical it may be to the lore.../smdh.

 

*Again, I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[Estelindis]

Ashara presents herself as this 'follower turned leader,' who refuses to be viewed as less than an equal to her former (*and most likely male) Master.

Most likely male? Says who? Plenty of women play this game, and plenty of men and women play female characters. Ashara has had character development regardless of whether the SI is male or female.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I never understood this as well. WHY ON EARTH would Lana unfreeze Darth Nox? Occlus? I can see that. Imperious? Absolutely. But NOX? REALLY? The Get Along Gang would NOT stand behind a tyrant that Nox most likely would be.

 

I do think that a very DS person would be a very bad choice for Alliance commander. Most people wouldn't follow them and they'd probably have a lot of folks plotting to over throw them for reals in the Alliance.

 

Of course I don't think Lana would realistically unfreeze a non-Force user either because there's no way they'd really match Arcann or Vaylin, much less Valkorion, without Plot Magic. She'd be looking around for whomever the next strongest Sith or Jedi was.

[Seaturkey]

Most likely male? Says who? Plenty of women play this game, and plenty of men and women play female characters. Ashara has had character development regardless of whether the SI is male or female.

 

I don't deny that, hence why I said 'most likely' and not definitively male. But all's it would take is one butthurt crybaby to start ranting on social media about TOR's 'sexist treatment' of a female companion, and the SJW flunkies would roll out in droves.

 

*And as I stated in my prior post, I could be wrong. Maybe it was just moronic/thoughtless writing, but these days you can't even have an award show w/o someone trying to make a political statement, just look at what happened during the Oscars when the presenter effectively cried sexism because of the 5 films nominated only one was for a female director. As if an achievement award should be based on 'diversity' quotas instead of merit. The same as there is a real issue with people being called racists if said person doesn't rave that black panther was the best thing since sliced bread. Whether or not you enjoy something shouldn't be based on meeting some SJW's diversity quota/agenda.

 

**PS: not intending to derail the thread, just calling it like I see it, and again, yes I admit I could be incorrectly perceiving an agenda that isn't there, but I trust my instincts. /shrug.

[Amantionus]

I think it would depend on how "evil" the Darth Nox in question was. Tier 1 to 3 dark side, maybe. A DS 4 or 5? You must be out of your mind...

 

I have played multiple inquisitors, some LS, most various degrees of DS. I just seem to be a bit selfish most of the time. That and the chance to zap someone is really hard to resist...

 

But the ones that were mainly supporting the Empire and had a sideline of self enrichment/aggrandizement, I could see those being suitable for unfreezing as leaders. They may be "corrupt", but there are limits on their petty actions that are minor compared to the order and stability they can bring.

 

The last one though? The "Kill'em all and don't bother letting even God sort them out" one? Nope, nope, nope. You would be better off with Vitiate/Valkorion than that psychotic individual. Even I look at that character and say, "you have issues" (but it is fun to enjoy the casual disregard of human life from time to time).

 

All that being said... I have not done the return of Ashara yet. My reaction may depend on my mood when I get around to it as well as the particular character. The psychopath? That one would want to gut Ashara right then and there. Free thinking is fine...so long as the ideas generated further my goals. The others, they are a bit more mellow and understanding, some might rant and rave about the "betrayal" and "uppity quasi jedi turned sith wannabes" while others would be ambivalent or even supportive (if Ashara has been properly indoctrinated, then you are essentially starting a pyramid scheme where your ideas and concepts are being spread to others).

[AngFour]

I do think that a very DS person would be a very bad choice for Alliance commander. Most people wouldn't follow them and they'd probably have a lot of folks plotting to over throw them for reals in the Alliance.

 

I agree. I made this when I first ran my D5 Inquisitor through.

 

Of course I don't think Lana would realistically unfreeze a non-Force user either because there's no way they'd really match Arcann or Vaylin, much less Valkorion, without Plot Magic. She'd be looking around for whomever the next strongest Sith or Jedi was.

 

I also agree with this. I don't agree with BW for writing such a Force heavy story seeing as it excludes half the classes in the game. I mean, for the most part my Agent fit in okayish, but not 100% WHY would Valkorion take an interest in her, you know?

 

Bad writing. That's all I can really say.

[Amantionus]

I have refused to do the eternal throne lines on my non-force users because it just doesn't "work" for me. The concept seems WAY off.

 

About the only semi-rational reason I could see for Valky taking an interest in a non-force user as his vessel is if he thinks he can more easily take over the person and then let his own abilities come out. Not sure if the force could work that way or not however...(as far as letting him have access to his power in a body that was previously not force sensitive).

 

I could see where recruiting a trooper or agent type could be a goal for the alliance as a means of improving their capabilities, but not as a leader (maybe the trooper as a military leader, but not as head honcho).

[Estelindis]

these days you can't even have an award show w/o someone trying to make a political statement

Look, I could say "these days you can't even have an Ashara thread w/o someone trying to make a political statement," but I'm not gonna. You decided to make a comment. That doesn't mean you're some raving loonie incapable of not making a comment. You just had something you wanted to say. People who disagree with you are the same: they have feelings and opinions that they want to express. Maybe not your feelings or opinions, but they still have the right to express them and it doesn't make them terrible people. So maybe instead of saying

butthurt crybaby

or

SJW troll

you could say and think "human being with a different opinion."

Edited March 22, 2018 by Estelindis