Why NO KILL option on Ashara?

[Estelindis]

The game sometimes gives us very evil options, but I don't think it's obliged to give us every evil option - no more than it has to give us every good or neutral option. There are already plenty of things it's illogical for my characters of various moralities to choose - in actuality they would go for some option that the game doesn't give us - but we only have so much to work with.

 

This is true in reverse in terms of how the universe treats our characters. If it's rational for a super-evil character to have XYZ options, it'd also be rational for many people to completely avoid our characters, not work with them in any way, and actually treat them as more of a threat than Zakuul ever was. The very thought of Jace Malcom sending poor Elara Dorne as a sacrificial offering - er, I mean, ambassador - to my Dark V Imperial characters on Iokath is nuts. But just as the devs don't have the resources to present the initial circumstances in a bunch of different ways depending on our characters, I expect they also don't have the resources to give us all the possible ways our characters would choose to react.

[QuinlanSaathis]

The game sometimes gives us very evil options, but I don't think it's obliged to give us every evil option - no more than it has to give us every good or neutral option. There are already plenty of things it's illogical for my characters of various moralities to choose - in actuality they would go for some option that the game doesn't give us - but we only have so much to work with.

 

This is true in reverse in terms of how the universe treats our characters. If it's rational for a super-evil character to have XYZ options, it'd also be rational for many people to completely avoid our characters, not work with them in any way, and actually treat them as more of a threat than Zakuul ever was. The very thought of Jace Malcom sending poor Elara Dorne as a sacrificial offering - er, I mean, ambassador - to my Dark V Imperial characters on Iokath is nuts. But just as the devs don't have the resources to present the initial circumstances in a bunch of different ways depending on our characters, I expect they also don't have the resources to give us all the possible ways our characters would choose to react.

 

Its not a case of giving us all the options.

But missing out the MOST logical for the characters is insane.

[inukamisan]

The game sometimes gives us very evil options, but I don't think it's obliged to give us every evil option - no more than it has to give us every good or neutral option. There are already plenty of things it's illogical for my characters of various moralities to choose - in actuality they would go for some option that the game doesn't give us - but we only have so much to work with.

 

This is true in reverse in terms of how the universe treats our characters. If it's rational for a super-evil character to have XYZ options, it'd also be rational for many people to completely avoid our characters, not work with them in any way, and actually treat them as more of a threat than Zakuul ever was. The very thought of Jace Malcom sending poor Elara Dorne as a sacrificial offering - er, I mean, ambassador - to my Dark V Imperial characters on Iokath is nuts. But just as the devs don't have the resources to present the initial circumstances in a bunch of different ways depending on our characters, I expect they also don't have the resources to give us all the possible ways our characters would choose to react.

It is obliged to give us options that fit the games story....

Siths are naturally cruel...so that is not ever evil option...

Siths easily resort to killing maiming, torture, manipulation......and according to our class....this is what we specialize in...

So i don't get the every evil option....I personally consider that a basic..must have option for inquisitor...since that is how they have portrayed the class all along....

You can't just go 360% off tangent in a story you made and expect it to stay relevant or coherent....

Now story just seems like a babbling Joke to me...

[EmilmcUgly]

If you're gonna kill somebody, kill Quinn. That maggot should have died in the original storyline. I was so pissed when I had to let him live.

[SithKoriandr]

Its not a case of giving us all the options.

But missing out the MOST logical for the characters is insane.

 

I don't this it's most logical to assume Ashara couldn't get away.

 

While the Inquisitor was stuck in carbonite, Ashara was improving herself.

 

Also, for all the talk of "My Inquisitor is DS!" it seems it's ignored that if the Inquisitor was that DSed, they wouldn't be where they are now. Why would that evil of a person ever have worked with Theron? Why would Theron even work with the SI?

 

The real problem isn't a lack of options in Ashara's dialog, the problem is, the story never should've gone the way it did for any psychopathic SI.

 

Complaints about a kill option, but none for the fact that such a character shouldn't be in their position now? Just silly

[QuinlanSaathis]

I don't this it's most logical to assume Ashara couldn't get away.

 

While the Inquisitor was stuck in carbonite, Ashara was improving herself.

 

Also, for all the talk of "My Inquisitor is DS!" it seems it's ignored that if the Inquisitor was that DSed, they wouldn't be where they are now. Why would that evil of a person ever have worked with Theron? Why would Theron even work with the SI?

 

The real problem isn't a lack of options in Ashara's dialog, the problem is, the story never should've gone the way it did for any psychopathic SI.

 

Complaints about a kill option, but none for the fact that such a character shouldn't be in their position now? Just silly

 

That is inane.

 

Sheer power got the SI where they are now, power and circumstance.

Ever heard the phrase, better the evil you know....

 

Basically anything is better than Arcann and Vaylin until it isn't but the isn't hasn't arrived yet as the SI has not had the chance to be truly genocidal as yet.

The story is littered with this, only Zakuulans care if you kill Zakuulans, (Koths leaving and Senya disapproving)

Only Pubs care if you kill Pubs

Only Imps care if you kill Imps

 

There is NO way on any plane of existence that Ashara could challenge you in 5 years, 10 years or a 100 years, and no SI played to the SI base story would ever let her live or return as an equal.

[inukamisan]

I don't this it's most logical to assume Ashara couldn't get away.

 

While the Inquisitor was stuck in carbonite, Ashara was improving herself.

 

Also, for all the talk of "My Inquisitor is DS!" it seems it's ignored that if the Inquisitor was that DSed, they wouldn't be where they are now. Why would that evil of a person ever have worked with Theron? Why would Theron even work with the SI?

 

The real problem isn't a lack of options in Ashara's dialog, the problem is, the story never should've gone the way it did for any psychopathic SI.

 

Complaints about a kill option, but none for the fact that such a character shouldn't be in their position now? Just silly

 

Correction a sith is groomed to be acclimated to power....According to the story...the Inquisitor is not foolish or stupid....

 

Why would he go on a Genoside when there is power to be gained....why kill a usefull pawn...?

 

Only a very stupid Sith would kill someone essential to gaining power...without having a replacement....

So yeah the Inquisitor also deserves the Eternal throne and his position...

 

Lets not forget we killed Valkorion in our brain....so if the whole forcewalking thing is correct...as any greedy sith would...we stole he darn essence....so now we have his power added to that...along with Vaylin who was also stuck in our brain....

So unless Vaylin some how comes back to life...we got Valkorion + Vaylin + all the other force ghost we ate....(How in Davy Jones's locker can Ashara stand up to that...)

Also last I checked we got the perfect body...courtesy of the mother machine Asha

Edited April 12, 2018 by inukamisan

[inukamisan]

Heck you even send us this letter

 

Subject: Farewell

 

Everyone says you're dead. I thought I'd feel the empy place in the Force that was your presence. I search, but I find nothing. It's like you were never there. What does it mean, that you could die and leave no trace?

 

I close my eyes to see your face. I shut out everything to hear your voice. The secrets we told each other. The plans we made. The future we were building. I know now who took that from us. I saw the Eternal Empire's warships above Dromund Kaas. They tried to kill me, too. They almost did.

 

The Sith adn Jedi are helpless against this enemy. I've left them all behind. I never belonged to those failed orders, no more than you did. We were always something special. Now it's just me.

 

Something is drawing me to the darkness beyond the edge of Wild Space. Maybe there will be answers waiting for me. Maybe I won't be alone anymore. I wish you were going with me.

How can someone send this letter and then hide instead of finding us???

"Something is drawing me to the darkness beyond the edge of Wild Space." got my dang hope up with this..thinking Ashara might actually become something.....

But all you gave me is an equal wannabe talking back apprentice/lover....who apparently all of a sudden can rival my strength..after all the force steroids I am on...

 

So all she learned from the something drawing her tot he darkness of space was to talk back.....

Edited April 12, 2018 by inukamisan

[Knockerz]

Ashara is a sacred waifu. That is why.

 

I always found Ashara to be be annoying.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Knockerz

[Lunafox]

I don't this it's most logical to assume Ashara couldn't get away.

 

While the Inquisitor was stuck in carbonite, Ashara was improving herself.

 

Also, for all the talk of "My Inquisitor is DS!" it seems it's ignored that if the Inquisitor was that DSed, they wouldn't be where they are now. Why would that evil of a person ever have worked with Theron? Why would Theron even work with the SI?

 

The real problem isn't a lack of options in Ashara's dialog, the problem is, the story never should've gone the way it did for any psychopathic SI.

 

Complaints about a kill option, but none for the fact that such a character shouldn't be in their position now? Just silly

 

I'm sorry to disagree, but I think it's quite logical and believable that the SI is able to prevent Ashara from leaving and utterly destroy her if they see fit to do so.

 

While the SI was in carbonite, it is said that Ashara was basically running humanitarian aid. She was 'helping those who needed it' but nowhere is it said that she took on any important enemies because the important and powerful enemies were being dealt with by the SI Outlander. Ashara may have picked up a new move or two, but that hardly compares with the arsenal that the SI has developed over the years. If the SI can take out Valkorion, Vaylin and Arcann, who the game states are the most powerful beings, then I have no doubt that the SI can reduce Ashara to ashes, unless of course you're suggesting Ashara is more powerful than the three mentioned? And if she is, then why didn't SHE go fight them?

 

The KOTFE/ET story in this game, clearly has its faults, it's written as a 'one size fits all', and that includes dark side characters. It's quite realistic and understandable that during war, with powerful enemies, that those resisting the Eternal Empire would seek to use the most powerful being at their disposal to fight The Emperor and his spawn, it's their only real option aside from submission and accepting the status quo.

 

The fact remains, that it was Lana, a Sith that liberated the DS inquisitor from carbonite, because she felt they would be the one with the power to take on the enemy. Theron didn't make that choice, the story indicates Lana did. As for Theron, if he is a romanced character, he seems willing to overlook what his loved one is doing. There are plenty of people playing this game that seem all too willing and able to overlook say, Arcann's faults and all the terrible things he did, what's not to say Theron isn't overlooking things too? That's he's forgiving out of love? Maybe hoping that with time the SI will change? People hope loved ones will change for the better or be different in some way all the time.

 

I never had a problem with what the writers did with Ashara's character, they were true enough to who she is, but where they screwed up is in how they approach the player character. Our character's personality and arc are cast aside as meaningless, and that's just not right, not in a game that claims choices matter, and where a character has been built up from the start as someone who has the ability to take out individuals more powerful than they are, which in and of itself, suggests they are a force to be reckoned with themselves. The player is the person who pays the sub and keeps the lights on and should be considered important enough to cater to. Ashara doesn't pay Bioware's salaries, the players do.

 

Any way you slice it, the DS Inquistor was reduced to nothing because of the lack of a kill choice, which would've made perfect sense for a Sith to do. It's downright nonsensical to prevent a DS Sith from acting on their impulse to kill a lesser being. Bioware pretty much set a precident that a DS Sith should be able to kill an underling in how they handled the situation with Quinn. They need to rectify this and allow the SI the same option.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Lunafox

[Lunafox]

Ashara is a sacred waifu. That is why.

 

I always found Ashara to be be annoying.

 

This ^^ above all.

[inukamisan]

I'm sorry to disagree, but I think it's quite logical and believable that the SI is able to prevent Ashara from leaving and utterly destroy her if they see fit to do so.

 

While the SI was in carbonite, it is said that Ashara was basically running humanitarian aid. She was 'helping those who needed it' but nowhere is it said that she took on any important enemies because the important and powerful enemies were being dealt with by the SI Outlander. Ashara may have picked up a new move or two, but that hardly compares with the arsenal that the SI has developed over the years. If the SI can take out Valkorion, Vaylin and Arcann, who the game states are the most powerful beings, then I have no doubt that the SI can reduce Ashara to ashes, unless of course you're suggesting Ashara is more powerful than the three mentioned? And if she is, then why didn't SHE go fight them?

 

The KOTFE/ET story in this game, clearly has its faults, it's written as a 'one size fits all', and that includes dark side characters. It's quite realistic and understandable that during war, with powerful enemies, that those resisting the Eternal Empire would seek to use the most powerful being at their disposal to fight The Emperor and his spawn, it's their only real option aside from submission and accepting the status quo.

 

The fact remains, that it was Lana, a Sith that liberated the DS inquisitor from carbonite, because she felt they would be the one with the power to take on the enemy. Theron didn't make that choice, the story indicates Lana did. As for Theron, if he is a romanced character, he seems willing to overlook what his loved one is doing. There are plenty of people playing this game that seem all too willing and able to overlook say, Arcann's faults and all the terrible things he did, what's not to say Theron isn't overlooking things too? That's he's forgiving out of love? Maybe hoping that with time the SI will change? People hope loved ones will change for the better or be different in some way all the time.

 

I never had a problem with what the writers did with Ashara's character, they were true enough to who she is, but where they screwed up is in how they approach the player character. Our character's personality and arc are cast aside as meaningless, and that's just not right, not in a game that claims choices matter, and where a character has been built up from the start as someone who has the ability to take out individuals more powerful than they are, which in and of itself, suggests they are a force to be reckoned with themselves. The player is the person who pays the sub and keeps the lights on and should be considered important enough to cater to. Ashara doesn't pay Bioware's salaries, the players do.

 

Any way you slice it, the DS Inquistor was reduced to nothing because of the lack of a kill choice, which would've made perfect sense for a Sith to do. It's downright nonsensical to prevent a DS Sith from acting on their impulse to kill a lesser being. Bioware pretty much set a precident that a DS Sith should be able to kill an underling in how they handled the situation with Quinn. They need to rectify this and allow the SI the same option.

 

Correction... you don't even have to look at other classes....

that precedent was long set in their story mode....

 

Zash did it...

the Mechanized Skotia tried to...

Thanaton did it...lots of times...

Even our Inquisitor did it...during his whole dragon deal and doomsday weapon and more....

 

Its hard to believe someone willing to hold a doomsday weapon over his home world...to threaten opponents to submission...

will let his lover/henchmen/goon/mini me get away with thinking they are equal....or after defying him/her...

Edited April 13, 2018 by inukamisan

[Lunafox]

Correction... you don't even have to look at other classes....

that precedent was long set in their story mode....

 

Zash did it...

the Mechanized Skotia tried to...

Thanaton did it...lots of times...

Even our Inquisitor did it...during his whole dragon deal and doomsday weapon and more....

 

Its hard to believe someone willing to hold a doomsday weapon over his home world...to threaten opponents to submission...

will let his lover/henchmen/goon/mini me get away with thinking they are equal....or after defying him/her...

 

I know...you're preaching to the choir here.

 

That's why I said this in my post:

 

Our character's personality and arc are cast aside as meaningless, and that's just not right, not in a game that claims choices matter, and where a character has been built up from the start as someone who has the ability to take out individuals more powerful than they are, which in and of itself, suggests they are a force to be reckoned with themselves. [/Quote]

Edited April 13, 2018 by Lunafox

[MikeCobalt]

I just keep thinking B.W. meant for Ashara to *Stay, Possibly they have plans for that Comp. later on. Same with Arcann Those that didn't want to Kill Senya are *Stuck with him also despite what he's done (War Criminal the likes no Human has ever seen). Maybe plans for later.

B.W. should *NeVeR* have started this "Kill/ No Kill Option", It has been nothing but a failure and created animosity for everybody (I wonder how many have quite from issues relating to this?).

[BlueShiftRecall]

B.W. should *NeVeR* have started this "Kill/ No Kill Option", It has been nothing but a failure and created animosity for everybody (I wonder how many have quite from issues relating to this?).

 

I agree they should never have started this killing companions at all but now that they have they have started playing favorites and deciding themselves who gets one and who doesn't, why are some companions thrown to the wolves and others not? Want to let us kill our companions? Fine but make sure they're all then on the chopping block equally.

Edited April 13, 2018 by BlueShiftRecall

[Lunafox]

I just keep thinking B.W. meant for Ashara to *Stay, Possibly they have plans for that Comp. later on. Same with Arcann Those that didn't want to Kill Senya are *Stuck with him also despite what he's done (War Criminal the likes no Human has ever seen). Maybe plans for later.

B.W. should *NeVeR* have started this "Kill/ No Kill Option", It has been nothing but a failure and created animosity for everybody (I wonder how many have quite from issues relating to this?).

 

That, is probably the truest thing on this thread if not the forum. I agree they shouldn't have started with the kill/no kill options, it's made for a lot of ugliness and animosity where none would usually be. It hasn't exactly been a uniting feature in the community. There could've been other ways to handle things that work for dark and light characters.

 

That said, of course if my favs are allowed to be murdered, I want the same courtesy and be allowed to murder the ones I don't like, but I would've preferred not to murder anyone at all, I would've been fine with being cruel or dismissive to the hated ones.

[BlueShiftRecall]

That, is probably the truest thing on this thread if not the forum. I agree they shouldn't have started with the kill/no kill options, it's made for a lot of ugliness and animosity where none would usually be. It hasn't exactly been a uniting feature in the community. There could've been other ways to handle things that work for dark and light characters.

 

I agree, our companions have been with us for years and years at this stage, starting to kill them was always going to split the community because some of us are attached to our favorites, once there is a kill option everyone knows the character disappears. It's not surprising people are becoming so protective of their favorites which is leading to passionate arguments and spot fires all over the place not just on these forums. When your community starts turning on each other like this it's not a good thing, instead of looking forward to more story we're more concerned over arguing about why character X should/shouldn't be killed and fearing that new content will be taking more of our companions away from us forever.

Edited April 13, 2018 by BlueShiftRecall

[inukamisan]

I don't get it....

were players not able to kill quin in BETA.....?

Its not like they started the kill option now...It was there before, taken away and brought back for the sake od consequences....

 

what is dividing the community is not the kill/not kill option....its bad story telling.....

Its how they contradict their Vanilla story so bad...you don't know how to feel....

 

And Lunafox was not trying to preach, was agreeing with you, but giving specific instances.

Edited April 13, 2018 by inukamisan

[BlueShiftRecall]

[ignore mistake post] Edited April 13, 2018 by BlueShiftRecall

[Lunafox]

I don't get it....

were players not able to kill quin in BETA.....?

Its not like they started the kill option now...It was there before, taken away and brought back for the sake od consequences....

 

what is dividing the community is not the kill/not kill option....its bad story telling.....

Its how they contradict their Vanilla story so bad...you don't know how to feel....

 

And Lunafox was not trying to preach, was agreeing with you, but giving specific instances.

 

It was a stupid mess, the whole business they did with Quinn. They did have him killable in Beta, but took that away, given that people were going to end up killing their healer and had nothing to fall back on, because like the pros they are, they also removed the feature where you could assign roles to the comps, rather than having them be a designated thing.

 

So they took that away, when it would've made sense for some people to kill him...and then gave it back because they thought there were more haters than lovers, which made it weird, cause it was like almost 10 years after the fact, which made no sense. Stupid that was.

 

And it's both, bad storytelling and I think the kill/no kill option too that's splitting the community.

 

Ok, well, that's what I thought, it's just a figure of speech about 'preaching to the choir' basically meaning that we're in agreement. I thought perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough and maybe there was a misunderstanding cause it felt like you weren't agreeing with me, yet making the same points. All is well then

[Lunafox]

I agree, our companions have been with us for years and years at this stage, starting to kill them was always going to split the community because some of us our attached to our favorites, once there is a kill option everyone knows the character disappears. It's not surprising people are becoming so protective of their favorites which is leading to passionate arguments and spot fires all over the place not just on these forums. When your community starts turning on each other like this it's not a good thing, instead of looking forward to more story we're more concerned over arguing about why character X should/shouldn't be killed and fearing that new content will be taking more of our companions away from us forever.

 

I agree with you, totally.

 

That's the thing, people are no longer looking forward to story with anticipation but with dread. I talk to a small group of friends outside the game and everyone I speak to is worried that they'll kill this person or that, and then they'll end up silent, and we're worried about losing comps because of decisions and writing and game changes. I know I'm protective of the ones I love, so I get it when people protect theirs. I love story and want more story and especially with the companions that matter to me.

 

I don't much care for this 'lets keep the clientele walking on eggshells and scared and wondering if we'll break their hearts' attitude they've got going on. I don't care for the Game of Thrones mentality that they've been trying to bring here. I like Game of Thrones for what it is and I like Star Wars for what it is. I don't want my Star Wars turning into GoT. I don't like the cruelty that goes with keeping a paying customer off balance. They might think it's 'more realistic' but enough of us play this game to get away from realistic worries. I have enough issues to worry about in real life, that I don't need to have to start worrying that my pixel boyfriend will dump me just because I decided to blow up someone's spaceship.

[Paulsutherland]

I agree, our companions have been with us for years and years at this stage, starting to kill them was always going to split the community because some of us our attached to our favorites, once there is a kill option everyone knows the character disappears. It's not surprising people are becoming so protective of their favorites which is leading to passionate arguments and spot fires all over the place not just on these forums. When your community starts turning on each other like this it's not a good thing, instead of looking forward to more story we're more concerned over arguing about why character X should/shouldn't be killed and fearing that new content will be taking more of our companions away from us forever.

 

^^^

 

If Nathema is turning into Genesis, then we may be able to eliminate this problem.

[Lammia]

(snip)

 

That's the thing, people are no longer looking forward to story with anticipation but with dread.

(snip)

 

This is the best summary of the current situation I have ever read.

 

Some players have "test characters" to run through the new story first to see what kind of horrors they shouldn't get their mains in.

[Asmodesu]

This is the best summary of the current situation I have ever read.

 

Some players have "test characters" to run through the new story first to see what kind of horrors they shouldn't get their mains in.

 

Me ever since KotET dropped... This is getting ridiculous.

[Lammia]

Me ever since KotET dropped... This is getting ridiculous.

 

I don't have any dedicated ones, but enough clones from vanilla+ replays that I can use one of them to test the ground first.