Why NO KILL option on Ashara?

[Aeristash]

No point waiting--that was your resolution, the one and only bit of Ashara content you're likely to get going forward. That was your reunion, all of it.

 

Reunion content, yeah, but that's not to say that they aren't possibly grooming her for something better down the line. I mean if they just wanted to give cameos of Ashara & Vector, they could've just instituted a kill option and let that be that. But the fact that they clearly wanted to avoid have them killed or become anything less than a leader leads me to think that there could be more. I guess I'll wait for Nathema and see what else they're planning for the rest of the year.

[Lady_Myajha]

Of all the horrible writing that has happened over the years in SWTOR, this has to be one of the honestly worst I've ever seen. Seriously, who thinks that any master of the Dark Side would simply let her walk out like that. Either she should be dead, or a simpering pile of smoldering flesh kissing my SI's feet and begging for forgiveness.

 

I've killed every companions practically that they've let me, for lesser reasons then what Ashara did, and yet I simply let her walk out thinking that she's bested my SI. The SI mind you whose managed to be a member of the Dark Council, killed an Emperor and both of his children. and yet I let my rebellious apprentice walk away?

 

Seriously writers, you obviously have no idea about the Dark Side in Star Wars.

[Seaturkey]

Look, I could say "these days you can't even have an Ashara thread w/o someone trying to make a political statement," People who disagree with you are the same: they have feelings and opinions that they want to express. Maybe not your feelings or opinions, but they still have the right to express them and it doesn't make them terrible people.

 

you could say and think "human being with a different opinion."

 

Firstly, touche, but then I wasn't making a political statement or atleast not intending to, I was accusing BW's writers/dev's of taking what appears to be a conscious/intentional PC-route, lore be damned. That's what burns me, the utter disregard for lore from BW. Something that BW, as others have already given examples of in this very thread, is notorious for doing (IE Lana defrosting a BH to lead a rebellion against Valkorian or a murderously psychotic D5 SI somehow an improvement over valkorian/arcann).

[Estelindis]

Firstly, touche, but then I wasn't making a political statement or atleast not intending to, I was accusing BW's writers/dev's of taking what appears to be a conscious/intentional PC-route, lore be damned. That's what burns me, the utter disregard for lore from BW. Something that BW, as others have already given examples of in this very thread, is notorious for doing (IE Lana defrosting a BH to lead a rebellion against Valkorian or a murderously psychotic D5 SI somehow an improvement over valkorian/arcann).

Personally I think that if the statements by others that you were citing were political then your commentary on them was also political. But this may not be a line of discussion that is helpful to pursue.

 

Why do you think this is a lore issue? To me it comes across much more as a resources issue. I mean, maybe we're both right and it's a resources issue that manifests in a lore issue. But BW itself is a massive source of lore: with SWTOR they created a large amount of new material that became its own new internal canon for this time period of Star Wars. They're the last people I expect to be dismissive of lore or inconsistent with characters if they had the choice not to be. Unfortunately I get the impression that they are working on a shoestring at the moment. If they had much more, they could give us the kinds of stories they did at launch.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Estelindis

[Seaturkey]

Personally I think that if the statements by others that you were citing were political then your commentary on them was also political. But this may not be a line of discussion that is helpful to pursue.

 

Why do you think this is a lore issue? To me it comes across much more as a resources issue. I mean, maybe we're both right and it's a resources issue that manifests in a lore issue. But BW itself is a massive source of lore: with SWTOR they created a large amount of new material that became its own new internal canon for this time period of Star Wars. They're the last people I expect to be dismissive of lore or inconsistent with characters if they had the choice not to be. Unfortunately I get the impression that they are working on a shoestring at the moment. If they had much more, they could give us the kinds of stories they did at launch.

 

We may have to agree to disagree then on the subject of BW respecting lore, cause I fail to see where additional resources would've been needed for the writers to write something that made atleast a little bit of sense when it comes to this ashara debacle. I mean, what would've been the difference, cost/resource-wise, to have the option to kill or dominate/enslave ashara over her just walking off? The result would've effectively been the same, ashara's gone, just in a way that makes sense with the lore. Seems more to me that the writers/devs just didn't care in the first place. Just the same as many of my guildmates hated the re-introduction of andronikos making him look like a pushover/wimp.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Seaturkey

[Estelindis]

We may have to agree to disagree then on the subject of BW respecting lore, cause I fail to see where additional resources would've been needed for the writers to write something that made atleast a little bit of sense when it comes to this ashara debacle. I mean, what would've been the difference, cost/resource-wise, to have the option to kill or dominate/enslave ashara over her just walking off? The result would've effectively been the same, ashara's gone, just in a way that makes sense with the lore.

I'm curious, have you worked in game development? I'd love you to run by me how you'd set up a cutscene with

• the same overall length timewise
  
• same amount of voice-acting
  
• same number of shots / "camera" angles, using roughly the same number of animations, and
  
• the same number of overall outcomes (as every story branch created is a loan taken out that has to be repaid by future work, or fans are disappointed that their choice made no difference)
  

that would've provided the option to kill, dominate, or enslave Ashara.

 

Don't get me wrong: I feel we should be getting much more story content than we actually are. I particularly feel that recent companion returns are lacking compared to earlier ones, and that's not fair to us who waited longer. But I doubt there's any reason beyond BW not having the resources to do all this stuff to a great depth when they decide to give us small chunks of everything (vs. their previous strong story focus during KotFE).

Edited March 22, 2018 by Estelindis

[JennyFlynn]

*giggle*

 

The forums are pretty weird lately aren't they? I keep taking mini breaks and it helps a bit I suppose. But I don't see things improving much while we're all still fighting tooth and nail to get a scrap of what we want from this game.

 

And who knows, I could be as guilty as anyone else in posting things that make the forums a less plesant place to be, but it's hard to look at my own behavior from another person's perspective.

Well, he does.

 

Yes, the forums are weird lately and for me personally, no longer a place where I feel 'at home' or like I can discuss a subject, share my opinion without some sort of BS following, without instantly getting attacked and smacked in the face with someone's assumptions about my intent or meaning. I guess we're past the point of just asking someone to elaborate, asking them why they feel that way. Where it feels everyone is just attacking each other. Where people connivingly circumvent the naming and shaming policy by talking of "haters" and other such substitutes while they sit back talking smack about other posters and their opinions. And the words and terms they repeat make it quite clear who they're talking about, what posts they're talking about which I think is just completely juvenile and toxic behavior. Or you know, making threads to mock someone else's. Strikes me as a bit of bullying but I suppose it's all good in the name of having a laugh, doesn't matter it's at the expense of someone else.

 

These forums have never been perfect, they've never been drama-free but there's a toxicity hanging in the air lately that just crushes my last bit of desire to have any involvement with SWTOR period. As if it isn't bad enough that the state of the game is pretty much in the gutter. I'd love to go back to a time where everyone's biggest forum eyesore was "Game's Dead Nowhere to Go!".

 

No, you're not guilty of the stuff that I'm talking about, at least not in my eyes. I always enjoy your posts and who knows, I'm probably 'just as bad' in the eyes of someone who isn't me.

 

In any case, a break sounds about right. A shame because I actually enjoy good conversation with people, even those who are of a different opinion and I love sharing in my fandoms or just a bit of banter.

 

 

Back on topic, somewhat; the real culprit here is Bioware. None of this is about Quinn (and people really need to stop using him as a stick, get with the facts). Players loathed Koth, started asking in Twitch streams and on the forums if we could please kill Koth, something Bioware began to consider. Then Aric and Kaliyo became killable not long after, setting a new trend for killing off companions and LI's. Koth and others followed. We were FORCED to let either Vette or Torian die, all of which happened long before Iokath and yes, by then, those who'd always wanted Quinn dead began stomping their feet too but his situation arose much, much later. Bioware should have never given in to any of that from the start, it's that simple. Just another thing they've screwed up in the bloody mess they call KOTFE/KOTET.

Edited March 22, 2018 by JennyFlynn

[IoNonSoEVero]

Now we're not just asking for a kill option, there also needs to be 'enslave' and 'dominate?' Maybe, just maybe, Bioware doesn't want to facilitate your ability to engage in extensive onscreen torture and abuse of a companion. Just saying.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I agree. I made this when I first ran my D5 Inquisitor through.

 

I also agree with this. I don't agree with BW for writing such a Force heavy story seeing as it excludes half the classes in the game. I mean, for the most part my Agent fit in okayish, but not 100% WHY would Valkorion take an interest in her, you know?

 

Bad writing. That's all I can really say.

 

I laughed my head off at your Tumblr post. Well played. Very well played! I have to wonder why anyone in the Alliance would have stuck around after the two oppressive speeches the player can do in that chapter.

 

I have refused to do the eternal throne lines on my non-force users because it just doesn't "work" for me. The concept seems WAY off.

 

About the only semi-rational reason I could see for Valky taking an interest in a non-force user as his vessel is if he thinks he can more easily take over the person and then let his own abilities come out. Not sure if the force could work that way or not however...(as far as letting him have access to his power in a body that was previously not force sensitive).

 

I could see where recruiting a trooper or agent type could be a goal for the alliance as a means of improving their capabilities, but not as a leader (maybe the trooper as a military leader, but not as head honcho).

 

Agreed with both of your posts about non Force users. I could easily see the agent or trooper being a good logistical resource, yes. I could also see Valkorion thinking they would be easier to hollow out and take over. But they'd have to beat Arcann and Vaylin to do it, and that would take some doing.

 

In another thread they mentioned that the original plan for KOTFE did have different paths for different classes and that would have been so much better.

 

I don't even see it working with SoR, really. Any of the classes could have been helping Lana and Theron with the search for the Revanites, and a Bounty Hunter or Trooper are plausible against Shae Viszla on Rishi...but a non Force user somehow has the power to flatten Revan, when Darth Marr, Satele Shan and Lana Beniko do not? Er. No.

[Seaturkey]

Now we're not just asking for a kill option, there also needs to be 'enslave' and 'dominate?' Maybe, just maybe, Bioware doesn't want to facilitate your ability to engage in extensive onscreen torture and abuse of a companion. Just saying.

and yet, they'll let you electrocute/torture/enslave vette to your heart's content? So, enslaving/dominating a twilek is ok, but not for a togruta??

 

But you're missing the point. The choices presented make no sense for the parties involved. An elite Sith willingly accepting a former apprentice as an equal, since when did that ever happen with the Sith? Or simply letting said apprentice walk AFTER attempting to kill said apprentice and act like nothing happened? Those results just don't make sense to the lore. If it did I, and others wouldn't have been so frustrated in the first place. Had this been a Jedi master and former apprentice, I'd be ok with it, but for a elite Sith? not so much.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Seaturkey

[IoNonSoEVero]

but they'll let you electrocute vette to your heart's content?

 

...and in KOTFE she tells you that you will never do that to her again and will not abuse her anymore. BW's evolved on this, thank God.

[IoNonSoEVero]

and yet, they'll let you electrocute/torture/enslave vette to your heart's content? So, enslaving/dominating a twilek is ok, but not for a togruta??

 

But you're missing the point. The choices presented make no sense for the parties involved. An elite Sith willingly accepting a former apprentice as an equal, since when did that ever happen with the Sith? Or simply letting said apprentice walk AFTER attempting to kill said apprentice and act like nothing happened? Those results just don't make sense to the lore. If it did I, and others wouldn't have been so frustrated in the first place. Had this been a Jedi master and former apprentice, I'd be ok with it, but for a elite Sith? not so much.

 

I"m not missing the point. Having the DS Sith react negatively to Ashara does not necessitate indulging people's sick domination and torture fantasies onscreen. And no, I don't buy "but lore!" as an excuse for showing that. A kill option would cut it.

[Seaturkey]

...and in KOTFE she tells you that you will never do that to her again and will not abuse her anymore. BW's evolved on this, thank God.

 

So, what I'm hearing from you is that you want to play Sith in name only, and in reality want to roll a jedi and call him a Sith. Hate to break it to you, my friend, but the Sith are the bad guys. They enslave. They murder. They loot and pillage according to their own whims, and do far, far worse. If those things disturb you, that's perfectly fine, I can understand that, but that's not the lore for Sith. They relish those things. Are these types of actions despicable? Ofcourse they are! That's why they're the villains, they lack a moral compass or compassion.

 

As for the enslave/dominate stuff, that was intended as an example of a more appropriate resolution that just letting her walk for a Sith. These are the guys who obliterate entire civilizations and planets to suit their own ends. If that kind of thing is offensive to you, maybe you should roll pubside and fight the evil Sith instead of joining them then complaining about their methods, methods you were well aware of to begin with.

 

*and just for the record. During my time in TOR, I've been on the receiving end of many in-character beatings/torture on my characters, because I'd pissed of this or that Sith during RP, and got my *** handed to me for it, which is exactly what I'd expect to happen when pressing your luck with a Sith in the first place.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Seaturkey

[IoNonSoEVero]

So, what I'm hearing from you is that you want to play Sith in name only, and in reality want to roll a jedi and call him a Sith. Hate to break it to you, my friend, but the Sith are the bad guys. They enslave. They murder. They loot and pillage according to their own whims, and do far, far worse. If those things disturb you, that's perfectly fine, I can understand that, but that's not the lore for Sith. They relish those things. Are these types of actions despicable? Ofcourse they are! That's why they're the villains, they lack a moral compass or compassion.

 

Nope, you do not get to tell others how to play or which side to go on, or that if they don't get their jollies seeing torture onscreen, they're somehow not Sith. I don't need you "explaining" your flawed personal interpretation of the Sith Code or Sith Order as some sort of gospel truth. Because it's not. It's your opinion. /ignore

Edited March 22, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Seaturkey]

You know nothing about me or the characters I play. And I don't need you "explaining" your flawed personal interpretation of the Sith Code or Sith Order as some sort of gospel truth. Because it's not.

 

You're right I don't know you, I can only base my opinion of you on our brief communications via this thread. Just as you don't know a damned thing about me and have no right to say I'm 'sick' for wanting to have the option, as a Sith, to kill Ashara. Also, what about anything I said about the Sith is incorrect? Are you saying they don't murder, and torture and enslave? And when exactly did I start talking about the Sith Code, I did not once bring up the Sith Code, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I didn't, but you seem incapable of having a calm discourse with someone you disagree with. The more you respond the more angry you sound, and the more irrational your replies come across. You prefer to disregard lore cause you find it 'sick,' and that's fine, in real life I completely agree with you, but then were not discussing real life, were a game in an established fantasy setting and it's subsequent archetypes, in this case the Sith, who are evil and do evil things all the time.

 

BTW, I didn't tell you how to play anything, I made a suggestion. One that you're perfectly within your right to disregard. But, your opinion has no more weight than mine, and yet you seem to keep pushing this idea that your opinion is somehow more valid than mine or any others, because you don't want to see a scene of Ashara being electrocuted or killed. Who the hell are you to tell me or anyone else how they should feel about the way BW handled Ashara's reintroduction? People have the right to there own opinions and views, particularly when it comes to the treatment of beloved characters & lore in an established fantasy setting and those people have the right to be displeased when they feel that a disservice has been done to said characters/themes. Are you saying that I and those that didn't like the way things were handled shouldn't get a voice? Hell, BW could've just faded to black, had a few sound effects, like a lightsaber swining or whatever, and come to find Ashara dead on the ground or being dragged off in chains, there are numerous ways they could've handled it, but IMO just letting her walk away was a horrible decision by BW. If it wasn't then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Seaturkey

[ResidentJason]

Totally agree, there is no way my Sith would let her live

[Damask_Rose]

Why do you think this is a lore issue? To me it comes across much more as a resources issue. I mean, maybe we're both right and it's a resources issue that manifests in a lore issue. But BW itself is a massive source of lore: with SWTOR they created a large amount of new material that became its own new internal canon for this time period of Star Wars. They're the last people I expect to be dismissive of lore or inconsistent with characters if they had the choice not to be. Unfortunately I get the impression that they are working on a shoestring at the moment. If they had much more, they could give us the kinds of stories they did at launch.

 

I think this is true of Bioware in the past, but I don’t think it’s true of the current Bioware. The current Bioware seems to have, at best, a shallow familiarity with older content and little interest being consistent with it. FE/ET was a square peg that they smashed into a round hole. They want to tell their new stories, with new characters and don’t want to be bogged down with years worth of other people’s stories and characters. Based on the interviews with the writers and the work they’ve put out, I honestly don’t think they could put out stories comparable to vanilla even if they had unlimited resources and time.

[Raynezazki]

If Ashara was actually killable in the beta the way Quinn was, I'd agree. But that still doesn't translate to "kill every companion because my favorite had a k/s option."

 

I didn't say that? I merely said using the "correcting past mistakes" Ashara ticks that box just as well as Quinn does.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I didn't say that? I merely said using the "correcting past mistakes" Ashara ticks that box just as well as Quinn does.

 

No, you didn't, but the original jist of the OP was that every companion should have a kill option "to be fair" because Quinn and others did. And I don't think it does tick that box. The mistake the devs made with Quinn was introducing a character who tried to kill the player and then giving the player no immediate way to get rid of them. To the best of my knowledge no other companion betrayed the player that way so it's a special situation.

[casirabit]

Personally I think that if the statements by others that you were citing were political then your commentary on them was also political. But this may not be a line of discussion that is helpful to pursue.

 

Why do you think this is a lore issue? To me it comes across much more as a resources issue. I mean, maybe we're both right and it's a resources issue that manifests in a lore issue. But BW itself is a massive source of lore: with SWTOR they created a large amount of new material that became its own new internal canon for this time period of Star Wars. They're the last people I expect to be dismissive of lore or inconsistent with characters if they had the choice not to be. Unfortunately I get the impression that they are working on a shoestring at the moment. If they had much more, they could give us the kinds of stories they did at launch.

 

The writing still had to be done, whether it was a resource issue or a lack of knowledge of the sith lore. That wouldn't change. What would change is how they did it which wouldn't have cost more resources if they allowed a Dark V sith to actually kill Ashara. It would be the same amount of resources. The lack of knowledge of Sith lore is where I see the problem, they don't know enough about a dark side sith to not give the option to kill Ashara for mouthing off.

 

Yes you have other options and that is great for those that lean more light side but for a sith that is complete darkside those choices don't work and for my sorceress to allow her to walk out like that, not very likely. She is dark side V and she probably was not one they would want to rule Zakuul either but that ship sailed due to the poor writing.

 

My sorceress is dark side and no she is not very nice so her accepting Ashara attitude is not in her character. My sorceress expects loyalty and the comment that Ashara is her equal is laughable. Ashara may have grown but she is not at the level my sorceress is so yes that comment would have set her off.

 

There should been an option to (1) either kill her (2) or cause Ashara some damages that Ashara realizes the mistake she made by mouthing off to her former master as she is limping out the door.

[grania]

There should been an option to (1) either kill her (2) or cause Ashara some damages that Ashara realizes the mistake she made by mouthing off to her former master as she is limping out the door.

 

Well put. Whoever these writers are, they just don't seem to understand the nuances of the characters and their relationships well enough to write them properly. I would be thrilled with a [maim] option.

 

I could have used that second option myself when Pierce was badmouthing my husband to me again and again, and yet AGAIN in FE. As if he's some kind of innocent, he blackmailed his way onto my ship in the first place. Way to make the femwarrior feel like a sap :/ Now a lot of inquisitors get to feel like saps too.

 

edited for clarity^

Edited March 22, 2018 by grania

[AngFour]

I think this is true of Bioware in the past, but I don’t think it’s true of the current Bioware. The current Bioware seems to have, at best, a shallow familiarity with older content and little interest being consistent with it. FE/ET was a square peg that they smashed into a round hole. They want to tell their new stories, with new characters and don’t want to be bogged down with years worth of other people’s stories and characters. Based on the interviews with the writers and the work they’ve put out, I honestly don’t think they could put out stories comparable to vanilla even if they had unlimited resources and time.

 

My husband and I were talking about the state of the game's story last night. For the record he thinks it's terribad and hasn't played past Chapter Nine of KotFE. In fact he initiated "Highlander Protocols (there were no sequels to the Highlander movie. There was only the one Highlander movie)" and has stated, on numerous occasions to me, that "It's such a shame that SWTOR's story was never continued past Illum. It was a good game. I wonder what happened to it?"

 

Anyway, he stated it best: "SWTOR's current writers are like bad fanfic authors. They have a good universe to work with and very interesting characters, but then they introduce THEIR OWN "Original Character" and the entire story revolves around that sparkly new OC, completely disregarding the original characters, the lore, and the rules of the universe they're supposed to be writing for." As we all know, that's a major crime in fanfic writing: Spending more time focusing on how awesome your new OC is and having the actual universe be background characters who are only shown and referenced when it makes the OC look cool.

 

He's not wrong. And in this instance, even OUR characters are not considered the "OC's" in this case. Cipher Nine, Wrath, Darth Nox (et al), Barsen'thor, Hero of Tython, and etcetera are real characters in the universe. We, as the players, just happen to be driving them. But say you've only EVER played the Jedi Knight: Playing only the Jedi Knight doesn't make Cipher Nine not exist in the SWTOR universe. C9 still does (Hell, Kaliyo knows Doc!), regardless of whether or not you played that story. The fact that all eight stories were at least loosely intertwined with each other made the overall story even better!

 

The current writing team are breaking major rules in what I would consider good story telling.

 

1. Your OC should never outshine/be better/ be above the Universe they reside in.

 

2. Show. Don't Tell! They do a lot of TELLING us how (for example) cruel Arcann is, but we really only see him

sitting on his throne desperately wishing people would stop calling him Emperor Three Dog. We rarely see him in action though. Unless he's puling a Deus Ex Machina move and cheaply beating our characters by cut scene.

 

3. Video game story telling rule: The PC, thereby the customer who paid for the game, should always in the room as the story advances. We, as players, should never see things that our character doesn't see. In the vanilla story, the story was never really advanced off screen without our input, yet most of KotFE seems to be visibly happening without our character even being there. See: Arcann sitting on his throne having his "Over the top I'm EEEEEEVIL" conversations with Vaylin. Our characters have become background characters, at best. They (our characters) aren't driving the story, Lana and Theron are.

 

4. They continually make our characters look like complete morons in comparison to their SUPER SPECIAL CHARACTERS. Case in point: Do you honestly think a Cipher Nine Alliance Commander, at the VERY least, doesn't know what Theron's doing in the current storyline? They did the exact. same. thing. in their own story (I mean, yeah, it sort of backfired what with the whole "Otomonophobia" thing but other than that...) And yet, I guarantee you, a Cipher Nine Alliance Commander will, without any input from us, be completely GOBSMACKED "OMG totally out of left field!" that Theron was just SO CLEVER! HE'Z THE BESTEST SPAI EVAR! The spy will be utterly in awe of the other spy...being a spy doing spy like things.

 

5. Speaking of "Otomonophobia..." More and more throughout KotFE have you (General You, not you, the person I'm quoting) noticed how our characters are saying things without our input? And it's ALWAYS to the SUPER SPECIAL characters. On Voss, when meeting up with Theron, we see Theron with his single pistol shooting at something off screen. Our characters say, "Good shot, Theron!" Without any sort of conversation dial. Nope. It doesn't matter how good, evil, or even WHO the actual PC is...they will ALWAYS tell Theron that's it was a good shot, taking the spotlight AWAY from the player (who is supposed the be the protagonist) and shining it on Theron...who gunned down a bunch of champion robots with a couple blaster shots (ETA: He is NEVER that useful or effective when I use him as a companion, even at Rank 50!). Also, I bring up the Agent's keyword here. My Agent went storming in after Vaylin and boldly shouted Vaylin's keyword. So did my JK. So did everyone. No conversation dial here, either. Because Vaylin is so super special she will only be defeated by her keyword. But my gripe is the agent. Not giving us the opportunity to try ANYTHING else first, my Agent who had actually said in the story "I would not wish that upon anyone else, not even my worst enemy" just all willy-nilly uses Vaylin's keyword. It's a complete disregard of the Agent and completely contradictory to what the agent themself had said ten minutes before. I don't CARE if trying anything else before keywording her would have failed, my point is that our characters weren't allowed to TRY.

 

These five points all cross over into each other, I realize that. I just needed to dissect the specific subpoints within the overall point, which is BW's current writers are more focused on their SUPER SPARKLY characters and telling THEIR story instead of focusing it on the PC. Had the game originally been written and released in the KotFE style of story telling, my irritation wouldn't be as bad. But in 2012 they set the precedent and then they deviated away from it, making them look like fanfic writers who are trying (and failing) to imitate the original writers.

 

Harsh, I know. But I used to write fanfiction and while my stuff was generally well received, I did receive some criticism. And man, oh man, did it hurt. HOWEVER, because I wanted to get better, I read it all and, for the most part, realized that the advice was sound. Receiving the concrit made me a better writer and made my story better and even more well received.

 

I want the writers to get better. I want them to actually THINK about the characters they're writing for (our PC) and about (the vanilla companions and such) and not beat us over the head so much with how awesome THEIR characters are. I don't mind their characters being awesome because, in all honesty, I really like them. I just don't want them to outshine everyone else. I want to to fit in not be a "square peg being forced into in a round hole" (to paraphrase the person I quoted). It doesn't take many resources to do a bit of research and to familiarize themselves with the characters who aren't their own. Because how it looks right now: it looks like they just read the one paragraph blurb out characters get when we got one of our vanilla companions, and didn't realize that those companions had actual character development AFTER the introductory blurb.

Edited March 22, 2018 by AngFour

[grania]

5. Speaking of "Otomonophobia..." More and more throughout KotFE have you (General You, not you, the person I'm quoting) noticed how our characters are saying things without our input? And it's ALWAYS to the SUPER SPECIAL characters.

 

Your whole post was fab (everything you post is fab!) but I was particularly struck by this comment. It immediately made me think of the scene on Iokath where my warrior had just found Quinn again, and then to my utter shock and dismay, she shouted "I love you!" to Theron. It was perhaps the lowest point for me playing this game.

 

I'd like to add that your post reminds me of my husband's rule for running a table top game - remember that it's your player's story, not yours. It's about how much fun and enjoyment they are getting from your game, not how much you can wow them with your own awesome overpowered npcs or your mastery of the rules over them.

[Raynezazki]

No, you didn't, but the original jist of the OP was that every companion should have a kill option "to be fair" because Quinn and others did. And I don't think it does tick that box. The mistake the devs made with Quinn was introducing a character who tried to kill the player and then giving the player no immediate way to get rid of them. To the best of my knowledge no other companion betrayed the player that way so it's a special situation.

 

For me being forced to take a obnoxious jedi alongside a sith lord is very much so in the should've been killable option. Also Kaliyo sells out the IA pretty hard (thankfully she is killable). She should be killable for the same reason that Skadge should be killable it makes no logical sense for a the PC to leave her alive in some scenarios (DS SI, LS BH) let alone let them on their ship. Quinn trying to kill the PC isn't unique because Gault does the same. *Granted Gault at least has the excuse of self defense * Being stuck with Gault pissed me off too come to think of it. Ashara's plot shield is obnoxious and even if she had lived it could've been done in a way that doesn't completely trample over the SI's characterization.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Raynezazki

[IoNonSoEVero]

For me being forced to take a obnoxious jedi alongside a sith lord is very much so in the should've been killable option. Also Kaliyo sells out the IA pretty hard (thankfully she is killable). She should be killable for the same reason that Skadge should be killable it makes no logical sense for a the PC to leave her alive in some scenarios (DS SI, LS BH) let alone let them on their ship. Quinn trying to kill the PC isn't unique because Gault does the same. *Granted Gault at least has the excuse of self defense * Being stuck with Gault pissed me off too come to think of it. Ashara's plot shield is obnoxious and even if she had lived it could've been done in a way that doesn't completely trample over the SI's characterization.

 

AFAIK none of the writers from the original class story are left and the one from KOTFE is an Arcann fan, so we're left with...yeah.

 

In the class story I think they could have given every character a 'ditch one companion' card. You don't want to have Skadge, Ashara, Quinn, Doc, whoever, on your ship? You can chuck or refuse them. I do think the story should have allowed that, My JK would have thrown Doc off the ship the first time she was harassed; a smuggler would have done the same with Corso, and Skadge and Quinn never would have even boarded my ships, if I'd had it my way.