New Conquest System: First Impressions

[Forgora]

Unlike many others posting here, I haven't played consistently enough or long enough over the years to have any kind of ax to grind with BioWare over this game. I haven't really pored over many of the complaints but I think the sheer volume speaks... volumes.

 

Just two observations:

 

(1) Generally when you have a system which isn't really working or needs updating, you'll want to solicit feedback before taking the hammer to it. It seems clear that this did not happen. Why? The scarcity of details prior to release of this patch, which has been in the works for some time, combined with the massively negative response, creates the impression that BioWare was aware that this would not be received well... and forged ahead anyway.

 

This is a really common developer tactic in aging or dime store MMOs that are looking to make their game progressively more grindy, and thus the cash shop "time saver" products more attractive: make extreme changes, then placate the outrage with concessions that still leave things in a much worse state. I really don't know if this was BioWare's intention, but if it was, it can't be overstated how toxic that is to your brand. You will alienate the players whom you need the most.

 

(2) The stated goals of the Conquest changes look, frankly, farcical when juxtaposed to what actually happened. This is such a boon to the biggest zerg guilds with the most active players, and a bullet in the heart of smaller or less active guilds. I'm not sure who in their right mind could ever think, "we'll make them put in more time, give them a lesser return, and severely restrict everything that can be done solo -- that's the perfect way to help guilds with fewer players and resources!"

 

The crafting changes are case in point. It's very easy for a huge guild to pool their materials and redistribute to maximize their point return. Small guilds? Not so much. Solo players? May the Force be with you. I can't imagine how a solo player could consistently meet their personal Conquest objective without selling CC items or something to afford the astronomical number of materials required.

 

All I can say is that, as someone who does subscribe, but doesn't play an extraordinary amount each week, it was already difficult for me to reach my personal objectives unless we invaded the planet with the more-accessible bonuses (i.e., not GSF). With the way things are now, I won't even bother opening the interface anymore.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Forgora

[Paulsutherland]

You had something that was simple and easy to understand, then this just smacked everyone in the face

 

Can we please just roll it back to 5.7?

[Krazhez]

I'm betting they'll update, (probably not anytime soon though) with a slight increase in conquest points and repeatable objectives, saying 'hey we listened'. But it was probably planned all along, like changes to command. It will make people feel happier because they took the feedback in, when in reality, the update will be the state of the grind they wanted all along, but people will be tricked into thinking it's phenomenally better.

[Forgora]

I'm betting they'll update, (probably not anytime soon though) with a slight increase in conquest points and repeatable objectives, saying 'hey we listened'. But it was probably planned all along, like changes to command. It will make people feel happier because they took the feedback in, when in reality, the update will be the state of the grind they wanted all along, but people will be tricked into thinking it's phenomenally better.

 

First rule of negotiating: always write the first draft, so that you can frame the discussion.

 

And this is, of course, a negotiation. Because what they want (money) is not what we want (fun), and those two things are in open conflict in any game with "convenience" RMTs.

[Vercundus]

Eric, Keith,

 

Any response? Any explanation? C'mon guys, I really doubt you can sleep well after what you just released. Also, I'm pretty sure you already have a statement for this scenario. Hurry it up, before critical number of people unsub.

[ShadowGovernator]

If you're subbed, cancel. I just did. Its really the only way they're going to take any of this seriously. We deserve a competent dev team, one that plays the game they're making. It is painfully obvious they don't play. How do you push live all of these bugs if you actually play the game. Tired of paying for the C team.

 

You are being way too modest - it's actually the FFF team that's currently working on their AAA Star Wars game!

Tell your unpaid intern before he leaves for school to roll-back patch 5.8.

And then only hire real professionals from now on BA!

[PennyAnn]

Impatience is the hallmark of gen Y. Can't help you there. I'm an old X'r and can roll with changes apparently better than people half my age. If even so much as one guild can figure out how to make 1m points in the first few hours of conquest opening, so can everyone else. I find it hard to believe that all the bright people are in Unchained Wrath (not even my guild).

 

Not everything in life is point-and-click. Someone in Unchained Wrath had an Aha! moment and BOOM they're off and running.

 

You can, too.

 

They had enough members who stepped foot on Ilum and took advantage of a bug that rewarded conquest points for boss kills even when you didn't kill them.

 

That too is gonna get fixed, and then they will have figured out... what exactly? I'll tell you: the same thing that we all have - the new CQ system is bad.

[Ibokagain]

Here is my first impression and reaction, itemized through all the changes I am seeing...

 

1. Tiered Rewards: Split into 3 allotments.

 

At first glance, this seems nice, but then really looking at it, each level up is only 5 resource pieces extra each, and 1 extra deco box on the top level, this reward is literally a joke. It barely even touches the value of time invested to achieve the rewards. This tiered system looks good, but the reality is quite a different story. More below will dive into these words.

 

2. Itemized Objectives: These look nice, but when you really look at them, they are very specific things, and have all kinds of restrictions attached to them.

 

Take Warzones, for example, you can only get the reward once per day per legacy, and only for wins... Is this a joke? Seriously... That is literally retarded.

 

And what about flashpoints? Oh nope, nothing for doing those. The closest thing: a single specific flashpoint that only rewards an amazing 325 conquest. (i have 150% bonus). Really? Is this a joke?

 

Oh, and then don't forget those uprisings... They used to be a quick like 5k conquest and a good 20k cxp in about 10 mins. Now? 325 conquest. ......... I just don't even know what to say here.

 

And then we come to GSF. 213 conquest per win. ROFLMFAO. Really?

 

Next up? Crafting, of course.... That used to be the single largest conquest point-gain per legacy you had. And the costs were just fine. Now? The cost is stupidly retarded, and the amount of materials required is at least 4x as much now, and the points gain is a paultry 513 conquest per war supply. Are you kidding me? Who the hell thought this was a good idea?

 

At least the operations rewards are still good, but here again, we have a serious problem... People who pvp only are now forced to pve to do conquest. They don't want to do pve, otherwise they already would be doing so. Forcing players to play your way is not going to motivate them to play the game your way no matter how much you screw them over.

 

3. Planetary Guild Requirements: There is now a requirement to gain at least 1,380.000 total conquest for the middle tier conquest.

 

Ok, this looks kind of scary to see, but I understand this makes it require more players to get their personal points. What happens for guilds that only have, let's say, 30 active folks total? Their guild gets shoved off the conquest table entirely cause they just can't muster the points between their people. 30x20k = 600k. So now they have to do double to get their reward, and even that isn't enough... lol. They have to do at least 45k each.

 

Granted, alot of people will say this is a measley amount, but for some people, 45k is a hell of alot. Not everyone has the time to grind conquest all day and night everyday. Some cant even get playing one to two times a week. Their real lives conflict with playing the game.

 

Before this change, those people could easily do enough conquest to help their guilds and still get their rewards, but now, they likely won't have enough time.

 

I thought this system was supposed to give those smaller guilds a chance rather than burden them with over twice the effort for still a likely chance to not even place, much less even get the reward for their efforts.

 

Is that a joke? Cause if it isn't, you people really need to re-do this system cause it sucks.

 

4. Command XP and Credits: This is refreshing.

 

I love it, but due to other issues, it really doesn't inspire me to burn time on these things when I can do other stuff that is 2-10x more rewarding, and alot more interesting.

 

Nice try. (As Rugher would say. Ravs Boss)

 

5. Enemy Commanders: What? There isn't any? Isn't this a core staple to conquest? Kill your enemies.

 

So now there is no objective for this at all. Really? That used to be one of the very important conquest objectives that motivated people to do them for ship plans and get conquest at the same time... Now, it's just for ship plans.

 

What was the point in even taking this objective away? Too many people were getting ships and having fun getting conquest and ship plans at the same time? Seriously? This baffles me entirely.

 

6. Heroic Missions: What? There are none? Except 2 weekly missions.

 

What? Really? So doing planetary heroics is now completely pointless. You won't be rewarded for them at all now. What? Really?

 

Is this a joke? Please tell me this is a joke. I beg you.

 

7. Interface: It's lovely, and easy to use.

 

Wow, it really is nice, but looking nice is pointless if the core mechanics of the system are garbage.

 

Sorry GUI Developers, you guys polished that turd really well, but it's still a turd.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Overall first impression and reaction.

 

This system is a total flop.

 

I like some of the aspects, but too much of it is really, really stupid.

 

Bring back the old conquest and take this trash to the dump and start over.

 

Please. I beg you.

 

Well said!

[nightsoflove]

Morning is here!

 

And now that I've cleared my head, vented, and played the system, I'll try be more constructive of it. I won't ask for a rollback, rather that the values are improved ASAP, and that the quest are more favourable to repetition and alts. I feel like you want to encourage us to do more things, which is good - but this way it feels forced.

a) because my gain from doing any activity is limited severely.

b) because I need to win.

- b.1) I enjoy playing, but as a solo player, I scarcely venture into a game and expect to win. That's how MMOs work. You solo, you live hard and wrecklessly.

 

I understand that conquest events change, but the one you've given us straight off of the bat really sets the bar rather low here, and makes me uneasy for something I was excited for before the release. I think that these are easy solutions, and it's to bring back the CQ objectives that we're comfortable with and liked. These current values kick the system in its chops and really hurts motivation.

[inoutallabout]

This is a really common developer tactic in aging or dime store MMOs that are looking to make their game progressively more grindy, and thus the cash shop "time saver" products more attractive: make extreme changes, then placate the outrage with concessions that still leave things in a much worse state. I really don't know if this was BioWare's intention, but if it was, it can't be overstated how toxic that is to your brand. You will alienate the players whom you need the most.

 

This is the most likely answer, and a disturbing realization. They've already made their cartel coin market mostly inaccessible due to hiking the prices up astronomically. It follows that in the pursuit of having to present ever increasing profits to investors that something like this would be next.

[PennyAnn]

I've done Illum, and got 9k for killing one little mob, didn't have to anything other than that. Nice tip!

Now I'm doing Hoth for the rampage.

 

What happens when the point system is fixed is that there will still be winners and losers on the conquest boards. But people will win with 100k instead of 50million. It's the relative score, not the scale of the accumulation of the points, that should matter. Guilds shouldn't feel put out just because they're not hitting millions of points in a week. They should feel great that they earned, with points fixed in the future, 350K and came out on top. It is not about the scale.

 

No one will win with 100k. No one will come out on top with 350k. The minimum number of points required on the smallest yield planet is 460k. Nice try though. You keep chugging at finding ways to make this all okay.

[inoutallabout]

I tried making one of my husband's family recipes tonight. Worked really hard on it, he hated it and wouldn't eat more than the first bite.

 

But hey, at least I'm not Bioware, so I got that going.

[ThadiusMoor]

No one will win with 100k. No one will come out on top with 350k. The minimum number of points required on the smallest yield planet is 460k. Nice try though. You keep chugging at finding ways to make this all okay.

 

Yup, that's right.

 

If all guilds on a given planet invasion fail to achieve the minimum break-point of 460k, noone wins and noone gets any guild rewards. 1,380,000 for the middle tier, and 2,530,000 for the top tier.

 

For all guilds on the leaderboard that fail the break-point, even though they get top ten, they still get nothing.

 

Only those guilds that reach the break-point will get rewarded.

 

At this point, yes, guilds will get the rewards, but some of the top ten won't, and that is totally dumb.

 

They will score top ten but still get nothing.

 

SAD.

 

 

Bioware: Hey, you did good kids, and scored top ten!

Players:

 

Bioware: Oh, you failed to get the points-break.

Players:

 

Bioware: Here is your helping of.... NOTHING!

Players:

 

Bioware: Enjoy.

Players:

 

Players:

Players: *clicks unsubscribe*

Edited March 21, 2018 by ThadiusMoor

[DzastinBiberi]

RIP pvp guilds.

[PorsaLindahl]

Morning is here!

 

And now that I've cleared my head, vented, and played the system....

 

Yeah. Morning is here. I'm still disgusted. I will call for a roll-back or a total disabling of conquest until this pile of garbage called 5.8 is fixed.

 

That's the only way I'll renew my sub.

 

T-Minus 100 hours. Tick-tock, tick-tock.

 

Edit: Oh, and there's another bug with crafting that makes it easier to gain CP. I won't specify what it is, though, because it's not my job. I'm sure others have already discovered this and are being quiet about it so they can take advantage of it.

Edited March 21, 2018 by PorsaLindahl

[JEDIKATT]

yup, that's right.

 

If all guilds on a given planet invasion fail to achieve the minimum break-point of 460k, noone wins and noone gets any guild rewards. 1,380,000 for the middle tier, and 2,530,000 for the top tier.

 

For all guilds on the leaderboard that fail the break-point, even though they get top ten, they still get nothing.

 

Only those guilds that reach the break-point will get rewarded.

 

At this point, yes, guilds will get the rewards, but some of the top ten won't, and that is totally dumb.

 

They will score top ten but still get nothing.

 

Sad.

 

 

Bioware: Hey, you did good kids, and scored top ten!

Players:

 

bioware: Oh, you failed to get the points-break.

Players:

 

Bioware: Here is your helping of.... Nothing!

Players:

 

Bioware: Enjoy.

Players:

 

players:

Players: *clicks unsubscribe*

 

and never forget that pvp for conquest not working any more / im pvp-ing my hart out 1000 in 1 alt and 800 in other points dont go up and new screens make it hard to just know whats what / so ya it is bad / its like vets that have been here for more then 3 years dont matter , that said maybe there doing this to get new kids playing or just puting in things not are not wanted or needed to make it seem like this more content in swtor then it has

[Gebrakstkasten]

This is a very bad update. I play for the PvP and this makes it impossible to for me to make conquest. I used to play a lot of PVE to make my conquest goals, but now since its actually not possible anymore these aspects of the game have now been cut off from me.

 

Please change it back.

[ThadiusMoor]

and never forget that pvp for conquest not working any more / im pvp-ing my hart out 1000 in 1 alt and 800 in other points dont go up and new screens make it hard to just know whats what / so ya it is bad / its like vets that have been here for more then 3 years dont matter , that said maybe there doing this to get new kids playing or just puting in things not are not wanted or needed to make it seem like this more content in swtor then it has

 

It is working though.

 

You ONLY get conquest ONCE per legacy per day, and ONLY for wins, not losses/games played.

 

This is what they designed it to do.

[Morteistno]

Yes this should just be completely rolled back.

 

There are many issues with it but it can be summed up as. If you want to do conquest you have very little choice in what activities to do. Conquest on multiple alts became a nightmare, crafting became waaaay to expensive and group content for conquest is dead.

 

It was not thought through at all, does not help anyone (though the stated goal was to make conquest more attractive) and then the crafting nerd and subsequent devaluation of stockpiles of materials a very nasty hidden ****.

 

Best is just to apologize to the community and do a complete rollback imo.

[PorsaLindahl]

Yes this should just be completely rolled back.

 

 

Best is just to apologize to the community and do a complete rollback imo.

 

I started a Rollback or Disable Conquest thread HERE. Everyone can show their support for this by just replying with "/rollback" or "/disableconquest."

[TrixxieTriss]

I tried making one of my husband's family recipes tonight. Worked really hard on it, he hated it and wouldn't eat more than the first bite.

 

But hey, at least I'm not Bioware, so I got that going.

 

Bahahahaha 😂

[TrixxieTriss]

RIP pvp guilds.

 

And conquest guilds full of pvpers

Edited March 21, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Tarbuch]

- Removing points for daily \ weekly missions (pvp, gsf, fp, ops) stinks.

- Removing participation points for pvp \ gsf stinks even worse.

- New interface makes it harder to see which obiective has been completed.

- Too many 'one per day per legacy' obiectives.

The rest is OK. Stronghold bonus is actually an improvement over what we had before.

 

For me the change for the SH bonus was a detriment on US server (124% > 121%), made no difference on EU server already had 150% bonus as I have 5 SHs fully decorated and unlocked.

 

Change to PVP was detrimental, only one win per day counts, no daily bonus, no weekly CQ points = no need to PVP at all.

 

Grinding BOI all day is not a pleaaant way to get CQ points.

 

Incompetence thy name is BioFail

[bmnoble]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents not going to read through the entire thread:

 

I am in a smaller guild, one mostly populated by players who prefer to do their own thing, we help each other out when needed. A few members helped out gathering mats for conquests.

 

I am the main crafter, before you could, with a bit of time, get all the the mats you needed on Yavin 4, Zakuul, Darvanis etc... to meet the crafting objectives, now with all these extra resource requirements it makes gathering near impossible, the low level mats are too spread out to ever be farmed efficiently, I would have to rely on a mix of crew missions and the GTN just to be able to craft the war supplies.

 

Which is quite simply too expensive, for far too little reward.

 

With the changes to Warzones and GSF requiring wins our guild has lost most of its ability to compete in conquests.

 

 

Quite simply the members of our guild, will not be going out of their way to meet the conquest objectives, if we complete and objective and get some point fine but we were not trying to.

 

I have gone so far as to just clear out a lot of my materials from storage and sell them on the GTN.

 

With the changes to crafting though I wonder how many people are going to bother with buying mats for the crafting objectives for much longer, combined with the removal of the conquest schedule. Potentially there goes a large source of my in game income.

 

 

In closing what happened to the item/vendor that was suppose to tie in to the conquest system that allowed you to max a companions influence?

[Han_Salo]

I did regular Conquests with 1 or 2 Toons, except for the ‘Crafting Conquests’ I've usually tried to push all of my Alts on personal rewards.

 

As long I’m in a smaller guild (my Guildmates did no Conquests Objectives to reach their Rewards) I had no real Chance to reach some guild rewards with Conquests.

 

At the first Look it was not too difficult for me to understand the new goals, but I was a little surprised. The new crafting goals are very high.

 

The PVP and GSF scores, on the other hand, are very, very low, even if they are not my favorites in the game. Here I think could have been a chance, for example, to make GSF a little more attractive, as a single match could bring more points.

 

I like the fact that finally a meaningful use for the invasion forces was found, on the one hand as currency for new decorations, on the other hand as a commodity for a conquest target.

 

But by the way; an explanation of how the donating works would have been nice, it took me almost an hour to understand how it works.I know that there is an explaining popup during a mousover, but how often you do that with mats? No one I asked on the fleet even knew how to do it.

 

Commander's Compendium is BOP. I understand that as a motivation to make conquests with different chars each week to allow every Toon a companion pushed up to 50. I like that.

 

Many things that thought would be terrible was not so bad (for me personal) at the second look.

 

However, the point weighting of the individual goals should be kept in mind and maybe re-evaluated a later time.

 

Sorry for any eventual awful grammar ...

Edited March 21, 2018 by Han_Salo