Finally time to move over to B2P with optional sub? It has its perks, my thoughts.

[SaerethDL]

Your logic is flawed, B2P isn't a magical formula that makes them invest in the game, if they were investing in the game it would be doing better, one of KOTXX many problems was the lack of pve daily content, making heroics daily again when it's convenient for BW, after people asked so many times not to make them weekly was bound to backfire.

 

You can get ESO for less than 15€ and GW2 for free, so B2P in itself isn't the solution, SWTOR already had the solution, in their case it was a CM that made a lot of money, they got greedy and ruined a good thing.

 

Why is it flawed? If you read my post, it says if they do not decide to invest in the game then we don't continue having to pay 15 bucks a month for a product that isn't reinvesting that money and supporting our interest. Nothing will stop the cartel market from selling items, nothing will stop people from using an optional sub if they want to support the game. It's a win win. I don't see any counter argument.

Edited March 19, 2018 by SaerethDL

[casirabit]

Meh I dont buy it. It's easy to budget it, I already told you how.. if you don't know how to save money that seems like a personal problem. The money is there if you are subscribing right now and no you don't have to stop playing. B2P wont all of a sudden make you pay right after they do it, you'll have plenty of time save because once they announce it you won't have to pay a sub fee anymore, so just save that money. idk how its hard to understand, seems like a cop out.

 

If a person only has xx amount for their expense and have budgeted $15.00 a month for the game then that is all they have. What you fail to understand is while they are paying $15.00 to play they don't have the extra to save for the game for it to go to B2P and it really isn't that hard to understand. You may have extra income, some people don't. When a person only has $15 allotted there is no extra to be saved. Furthermore, if a person stops playing a game for xx amount of months there is a big chance they will not come back. This would hurt the game more than help it.

 

If you really think they are going to let you play for free when they announce it then you are crazy. Bioware, if and only if, do something like this is not going to let people play for free. You are going to have to pay your sub and continue to pay for the sub and then have to save extra money for the B2P.

 

I played Star Trek when they had this and it really wasn't worth it.

[Eshvara]

I have nothing against B2P, but I'm not sure if it would work out for swtor. I don't particularly care either way.

[Jdast]

It's hardly limiting (especially compared to swtor), you can do every a subscriber can, only thing you really miss out on is a special crafting bag.

 

In the first place, it's ESO and not GW2, that has the crafting bag. And it's pretty clear based on your posts that you don't play ESO. The crafting bag is the primary perk, but there are several others (coins, outfits, bank space, etc.).

 

In the second place, as has been pointed out countless times, both games would lose a steady stream of income and, oh nevermind...

 

You are now in same category as Olag. He kept making comparisons of SWTOR to WoW, a game he never played and didn't even know the difference between Raid and Raid boss.

 

There is no point in discussing a topic with someone who insists on making comparisons when they have no empirical knowledge of one half of the comparison.

 

Peace Out,

 

Dasty

Edited March 19, 2018 by Jdast

[SaerethDL]

If a person only has xx amount for their expense and have budgeted $15.00 a month for the game then that is all they have. What you fail to understand is while they are paying $15.00 to play they don't have the extra to save for the game for it to go to B2P and it really isn't that hard to understand. You may have extra income, some people don't. When a person only has $15 allotted there is no extra to be saved. Furthermore, if a person stops playing a game for xx amount of months there is a big chance they will not come back. This would hurt the game more than help it.

 

If you really think they are going to let you play for free when they announce it then you are crazy. Bioware, if and only if, do something like this is not going to let people play for free. You are going to have to pay your sub and continue to pay for the sub and then have to save extra money for the B2P.

 

I played Star Trek when they had this and it really wasn't worth it.

 

Again i don't buy it. You didn't read anything I said. He doesn't have to stop playing, if it goes b2p he would have already paid for the game since he was subbed, its future content that he will have to pay for, which at least takes 8 months at a time or longer to develop. That 15 he would be spending on a sub, he wouldn't have to spend anymore, therefore keep it in your pocket for 8 months and you have more than enough for an expansion and cartel coins if you want, or whatever you want to do with it. Heck if its that big of a deal, he can just send me a PM and I'll pay for his expansion (if there ever will be one) sheesh. Why wouldn't a person on a budget want to save money. YOU are the one that doesnt understand and make sense. Again it's a cop out. And you have no logical arguments to why you would be against b2p, other than "that one time I played Star Trek, it sucked!" lol.

[SaerethDL]

In the first place, it's ESO and not GW2, that has the crafting bag. And it's pretty clear based on your posts that you don't play ESO. The crafting bag is the primary perk, but there are several others (coins, outfits, bank space, etc.).

 

In the second place, as has been pointed out countless times, both games would lose a steady stream of income and, oh nevermind...

 

You are now in same category as Olag. He kept making comparisons of SWTOR to WoW, a game he never played and didn't even know the difference between Raid and Raid boss.

 

There is no point in discussing a topic with someone who insists on making comparisons when they have no empirical knowledge of one half of the comparison.

 

Peace Out,

 

Dasty

 

I was talking about ESO, i misread it and thought that was what he said. ESO has the crafting bag. You can't even sub for gw2 as far as I know, so why would he even say that. So i assumed he was talking about eso being limited. You assume that swtor would lose a steady income, but that is just an assumption yet again and not a valid argument. I played the heck out of eso and have a champion ranked dragon knight and warden (if you don't believe me just sign in and ill invite you to my group), so you don't know what you're talking about, again with the assumptions. Nice try man but I don't expect you hear from you again, all you have in false accusations and nothing to bring to the table. I have max level characters on both ESO, and GW2, as well as 4 lvl 70's on Swtor build from lvl 1 never using a token so yes, I have plenty of knowledge. Take care.

Edited March 19, 2018 by SaerethDL

[Andryah]

Keep in mind everyone.. this is a thread with an agenda.

 

The agenda being: OP does not want to pay a subscription and hence is working hard to lobby the forum to support him in a futile effort to get the studio to change their business model.

 

Note that he strongly refutes any comments that do not support his agenda here.. and as such.. this thread is going nowhere. Which on the surface is fine.. but he is being so transparent in his agenda in this thread and others... that I doubt there is any real discussion to be had in this thread.

 

Now.. to comment on topic about some alleged {"silver bullet" "proofs"}... they are not very well thought out as presented here really.

 

The ESO B2P model is so bad that many players subscribe anyway to get past restrictions. But is also works for some segments of the MMO player base, which is fine. Essentially ESO is not a true B2P game.. it is a hybrid that has been converted from sub-only. It has some B2P qualities and it has some Freemium qualities as well. Like many originally sub-only MMOs... their exact business model choices are familiar yet different then other MMOs in the same approach.

 

GW2 IS a true B2P game.... and that IS NCsofts preferred model, so it was designed from the ground up with this in mind. But keep in mind.. it is simply a different approach, that is successful to a good extent... but it is no "silver bullet" in MMOs. NCsofts B2P model has a high buy-in for the initial release and each expansion.. so it by no means solves the alleged problems that the OP is presenting.

 

If people want to press the case for B2P, GW1 and GW2 are the reference standards in the market for how to approach this from a business model perspective. Yet.. GW1 is long into a real maintenance mode, and GW2 Never took over the MMO world.... so B2P works but it is not a silver bullet by any means.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Andryah

[SaerethDL]

Keep in mind everyone.. this is a thread with an agenda.

 

The agenda being: OP does not want to pay a subscription and hence is working hard to lobby the forum to support him in a futile effort to get the studio to change their business model.

 

Note that he strongly refutes any comments that do not support his agenda here.. and as such.. this thread is going nowhere. Which on the surface is fine.. but he is being so transparent in his agenda in this thread and others... that I doubt there is any real discussion to be had in this thread.

 

Now.. to comment on topic about some alleged {"silver bullet" "proofs"}... they are not very well thought out as presented here really.

 

The ESO B2P model is so bad that many players subscribe anyway to get past restrictions. But is also works for some segments of the MMO player base, which is fine. Essentially ESO is not a true B2P game.. it is a hybrid that has been converted from sub-only. It has some B2P qualities and it has some Freemium qualities as well. Like many originally sub-only MMOs... their exact business model choices are familiar yet different then other MMOs in the same approach.

 

GW2 IS a true B2P game.... and that IS NCsofts preferred model, so it was designed from the ground up with this in mind. But keep in mind.. it is simply a different approach, that is successful to a good extent... but it is no "silver bullet" in MMOs. NCsofts B2P model has a high buy-in for the initial release and each expansion.. so it by no means solves the alleged problems that the OP is presenting.

 

If people want to press the case for B2P, GW1 and GW2 are the reference standards in the market for how to approach this from a business model perspective. Yet.. GW1 is long into a real maintenance mode, and GW2 Never took over the MMO world.... so B2P works but it is not a silver bullet by any means.

 

I bet you didn't even read the post. I don't care about the 15 bucks a month that is a joke to me. So no I don't have an agenda or I would have been making this same post since day 1, which was 7 years ago for me, because I was in beta almost a year before the game came out.

 

Again you're exaggerating stuff to make your claim seem to have merit when it doesn't. ESO has a very good b2p model, the only thing people really want out of that subscription is the unlimited crafting bag and you dang as well know it. You can live without it just fine, it just takes more inventory management which lazy people don't want to do. I've played the free model since it was announced with no problems, buying all the content as it comes out and never paying a dime to sub fee just fine.

 

GW2 has no buy-in in fact you can play the original base game for completely free with no limitations for weeks or months until you want to get into the new expansions.. and you can get those cheap too, for less than 30 bucks, so I don't wanna hear it lol. GW1 arguement, that game looks like crap and is 14 years old, but yes I logged in the other day to play with my cousin and its low population but you can still find a lot of people depending on the events.. but yeah that game is old plus has a sequel.

 

15 bucks a month doesn't mean anything to me but it dang well means something to a lot of people that want to play this game but don't want to pay a sub. If you haven't noticed from the 2 US servers, the game is dying and talks about stopping any new development on swtor have likely already happened. This game needs something to save it, to extend its life, I'm not saying it's gonna die anytime soon but it's apparent, development is slowing down to a crawl. If yall just wanna give up and ride it out into the sunset thats fine with me, this is just my opinion after all.

Edited March 19, 2018 by SaerethDL

[Mdgshorty]

It's hardly limiting (especially compared to swtor), you can do every a subscriber can, only thing you really miss out on is a special crafting bag.

 

True, but they are limited to what they can put on black lion trading post. You missed the point of me saying that GW2 is still playable as free to play.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Mdgshorty

[SaerethDL]

True, but they are limited to what they can put on black lion trading post. You missed the point of me saying that GW2 is still playable as free to play.

 

 

When you said this

GW2 is a B2P game, but they have a free option that is limiting, but still playable.

 

I thought you meant ESO, because I didn't understand how GW2's free to play option was limiting, as there is no subsciption and no restrictions. So i didn't understand the context fully.

 

EDIT: Now that i look at it, gw2 does have a limited f2p option.. i've only been b2p so I didn't know.. I thought it was unrestricted. My bad.

Edited March 19, 2018 by SaerethDL

[Andryah]

I bet you didn't even read the post. I don't care about the 15 bucks a month that is a joke to me. So no I don't have an agenda or I would have been making this same post since day 1, which was 7 years ago for me, because I was in beta almost a year before the game came out.

 

.......

 

15 bucks a month doesn't mean anything to me but it dang well means something to a lot of people that want to play this game but don't want to pay a sub. If you haven't noticed from the 2 US servers, the game is dying and talks about stopping any new development on swtor have likely already happened. This game needs something to save it, to extend its life, I'm not saying it's gonna die anytime soon but it's apparent, development is slowing down to a crawl. If yall just wanna give up and ride it out into the sunset thats fine with me, this is just my opinion after all.

 

Yet... you unsubbed and made a very public editorial about it.

 

yeah i canceled my sub which runs out in less than 2 months, I don't play on re subbing for a long while or until 6.0 at least depending on if its an expansion or just a small content update like one flashpoint. I don't think i'll ever quit for good though but I don't play much anymore like a used to ive been through all this old content too many times to enjoy it like I used to. Honestly sometimes I pay for the sub and don't even use it, go a month or two without ever logging into swtor. Then i get that itch for a star wars mmo. I've now found swg emu and play that a bit more as they have most of the content up from Pre-cu now and working on JTL this year. This game really should go buy 2 play now that it's old lost most of its subscribers and no longer producing much content also they should make us pay full price for large content updates like a true expansion wow/eso size. I think more people would play the game that aren't interested in paying a sub, and in return more people would use the cash shop. but idk that's just a theory. Also have the optional sub and perks for people that still want to pay for a sub.

 

Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9558035&postcount=40

 

More players will not fix your particular issues with the game. You freely admit you do not play much at all anymore.. so why on earth do you actually care one way or the other... unless it boils down to you want a free ride moving forward for no other reason then you are tired of the game and clearly want the option to come back and play once in a while for free and not suffer any restrictions.

 

In other words... you are pretexting here with your strawman.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Andryah

[SaerethDL]

Yet... you unsubbed and made a very public editorial about it.

 

 

 

Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9558035&postcount=40

 

More players will not fix your particular issues with the game. You freely admit you do not play much at all anymore.. so why on earth do you actually care one way or the other... unless it boils down to you want a free ride moving forward for no other reason then you are tired of the game and clearly want the option to come back and play once in a while for free and not suffer any restrictions.

 

In other words... you are pretexting here with your strawman.

 

Your point? I unsubbed because of the principal, not because of the money.. again assumptions on your end. My reasoning for it was in that exact post you quoted. To try to make you understand. Dude my house is owned, my car is owned.. I have plenty of disposable income. I work for the FAA, as an ATC. I don't need that 15 bucks a month hun.

 

I want more people to play with, more content, and reasons to warrant my time, money, and investments over the years.

 

Plus this game has a small place in my heart, and I want more than anything for it to be successful tbh. I'm not a doom and gloomer, even though yes I'll admit throughout the years I've had some doom and glooom and negative post, this isn't one of them.

Edited March 19, 2018 by SaerethDL

[BullitClub]

Yet... you unsubbed and made a very public editorial about it.

 

 

 

Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9558035&postcount=40

 

More players will not fix your particular issues with the game. You freely admit you do not play much at all anymore.. so why on earth do you actually care one way or the other... unless it boils down to you want a free ride moving forward for no other reason then you are tired of the game and clearly want the option to come back and play once in a while for free and not suffer any restrictions.

 

In other words... you are pretexting here with your strawman.

 

Some people leave over something as minor as a slot machine payout nerf. lol

[Ciarayn]

It might be a good idea to go B2P if that would provide them with enough funds to get back to making a reasonable amount of content. Otherwise, either B2P or subscription is fine with me. However, clearly something is not working with their current system, or they wouldn't have such a lack of content. Edited March 22, 2018 by Ciarayn

[NeoBlakkrstal]

This is exactly what this post would get rid of. What am i misrepresenting? Crafting bag is perk, you still get access to everything else if you choose not to sub. SWTOR optional sub could have perks to such as more xp, cartel coins, subscriber only monthly rewards, discount of cartel market and such.. its not hard to give people a reason to sub.

 

Up until this post I was actually starting to agree with you. What you are suggesting is that the sub would be optional, but still give perks that are not available to people who are not subbed. In addition, there would be a once, or twice, a year charge to add the new content, previously you had given a $48 price tag, so we'll go with that. Now, if you wanted to get the perks for having a sub not only would you be paying monthly, but once a year there would be a punch charge to you as well, that does not currently exist. Under the current system you automatically get all new updates, in addition to the perks of being a sub. No, I think I'll stay with the current system. The only way your system works is if you get the full game for that once a year punch, no restrictions, no "sub" perks, the full game. Then the B2P system could be viable. A hybrid of both the sub system and the B2P system, which you seem to be suggesting, would be more expensive than what we are currently paying.