Ashara Zavros appreciation thread (Anyone? Am I alone? :o)

[Seireeni]

I think where Bioware needs to improve on this sort of thing is having more options to refuse a companion without killing them. It exists for some of them, but not all.

 

The reason I always kill Quinn on Iokath is simply because there's no option to refuse him if you stay with the Empire. My SW might not want to kill him for something that happened a long time ago, but she wouldn't trust him again or let him work with her Alliance, either, and I didn't want to have to interact with him in my story again. If there were an option to say "yeah, Acina, you've got an ally, but get the creep out of here," I would have taken it.

 

But in terms of Ashara, I don't get why anyone would want to kill her. I've seen other posts calling for Mako, Kira, other female companions to die...are some people who play this game really that edgelord that they want to kill everyone they can (I know the answer is yes)?

 

More options is always good. Imo the other problem with the Quinn return was that he really did nothing wrong at the time, so even if there was a reason for the player to want to punish him for his betrayal, there was no reason for the character to do it. This is very different from other kill options, that usually give the character some reasoning (i.e. Kaliyo and Jorgan disregarding a direct order and possibly screwing up, Xalek and Broonmark attacking innocent people) to hurt them. Killing someone over something they did years ago even though you worked with them through all those years seems rather...petty.

 

As for Ashara and kill option -- people have different opinions on companions. You don't like certain companions, other people don't like other companions. Ashara was the most hated companion for me for a long time and I only changed my mind after playing my semi-grey inquisitor I mentioned in an earlier post. She seems like an annoying but naive brat when we first meet her on Taris, and the whole "I'm traveling with you and I'm your apprentice but I'm still a jedi!!!"-thing just doesn't work when you play a very pro-sith inquisitor who would prefer to kill jedi on sight. It really doesn't take no more of an "edgelord" to wish to see her gone than it takes an "edgelord" to wish to see Kaliyo gone.

[Eshvara]

I never really knew why people hated Ashara! Maybe she's a bit annoying at times but there are companions 100x worse! Opinions, I know.

But still! I hope she won't get a kill option, but if she is for the Inquisitor alone, does it really matter?🤔

[aerockyul]

Ashara is my favorite of all the companions. LS Inq was my first character and is my main to this day. I've come to appreciate Khem Val with other Inq's but my main hated him and Ashara was perfect for me when I finally got her. I had a small RP idea for how I wanted to play the story and everything Ashara said and felt fit really well with what I wanted--it really added to my love for the story and it was the closest thing I've felt to perfect story/personal choice synergy since one of my best KOTOR playthroughs.

 

I was/am extremely disappointed with the lack of a f/f romance option. I've had to settle for playful but half-serious flirting with Acina and a full-blown "settling" for Lana (Lana is not bad, imo, I would just much rather be with Ashara, and I'd feel pretty bad for Lana if this was an option--because I'd drop her faster than lightning).

 

I waited about a year and a half without her after 4.0, and was resolute in waiting for a return. I finally couldn't take it anymore and pulled her from the companion terminal, and I'm happy I did. It will severely soften the blow when she gets a maybe 2-minute convo and kill-option.

 

The screenshots I have with my "reunion" in my Ashara link in the sig were completely unplanned. You know that thing when you're running, and then you stop on a dime and your companion goes flying past you and collides with whatever is in the room? I stopped, without planning, in the absolute perfect place in my stronghold and she stopped right next to me after careening over and through a couple obstacles. I dropped whatever it was that I was doing and took some angled screenshots that filled my head-canon perfectly. I don't think I could plan for it to happen again if I tried. Somehow I think her "real" return will never match what I was able to get out of that glitch. Unless I hear through the grapevine that they add a f/f option, I might even SKIP the alert, something I would have thought was unthinkable before.

[Xbladez]

I never really knew why people hated Ashara! Maybe she's a bit annoying at times but there are companions 100x worse! Opinions, I know.

But still! I hope she won't get a kill option, but if she is for the Inquisitor alone, does it really matter?🤔

Which major companions return and available to all classes, I doubt they making Ashara class specific companion. While Mako, Vette, Elara, Temple and many more are available to everyone. So why making Ashara different than other companion?

[Seireeni]

I don't really care if there's a kill option or not. Many people seem to feel that kill option means that there's no content with said character, but imo there's no content with most of the returning companions, kill option or no.

 

I'm more worried about what kind of reaction she'll have if her former master has done some...questionable things as the Outlander. I'm pretty sure my Nox both let Vaylin blow up the reactor AND let Kaliyo wreck havoc in Zakuul, and if she refuses to return and breaks up with him, I'll be heartbroken.

[Eshvara]

Which major companions return and available to all classes, I doubt they making Ashara class specific companion. While Mako, Vette, Elara, Temple and many more are available to everyone. So why making Ashara different than other companion?

 

By mako and Akaavi(?) Are only for the BH and Smuggler:rak_02:

Am I being grossly uninformed again?

[aerockyul]

I don't really care if there's a kill option or not. Many people seem to feel that kill option means that there's no content with said character, but imo there's no content with most of the returning companions, kill option or no.

 

I'm more worried about what kind of reaction she'll have if her former master has done some...questionable things as the Outlander. I'm pretty sure my Nox both let Vaylin blow up the reactor AND let Kaliyo wreck havoc in Zakuul, and if she refuses to return and breaks up with him, I'll be heartbroken.

 

I would uninstall if they did this, no joke. Small chance, since I've played my main with Ashara in mind from the moment we met, so I have little to worry about, but yeah, that would completely do it for me.

[Seireeni]

I would uninstall if they did this, no joke. Small chance, since I've played my main with Ashara in mind from the moment we met, so I have little to worry about, but yeah, that would completely do it for me.

 

I don't think anyone but Elara has actually done that, and she always did have a strong sense of right and wrong (and I don't even know if she does that to a male trooper who romanced her -- I just know she ditched my ds female trooper ), but I can't help but to worry. I was hoping to RP my Nox getting a little more merciful after Ashara returns since she tends to bring up the better side of him, so hopefully Ashara can look past some dead zakuulans...

[Xbladez]

By mako and Akaavi(?) Are only for the BH and Smuggler:rak_02:

Am I being grossly uninformed again?

Nah, you are not uninformed lol

I just sump up on my part my bad.

[IoNonSoEVero]

More options is always good. Imo the other problem with the Quinn return was that he really did nothing wrong at the time, so even if there was a reason for the player to want to punish him for his betrayal, there was no reason for the character to do it. This is very different from other kill options, that usually give the character some reasoning (i.e. Kaliyo and Jorgan disregarding a direct order and possibly screwing up, Xalek and Broonmark attacking innocent people) to hurt them. Killing someone over something they did years ago even though you worked with them through all those years seems rather...petty.

 

As for Ashara and kill option -- people have different opinions on companions. You don't like certain companions, other people don't like other companions. Ashara was the most hated companion for me for a long time and I only changed my mind after playing my semi-grey inquisitor I mentioned in an earlier post. She seems like an annoying but naive brat when we first meet her on Taris, and the whole "I'm traveling with you and I'm your apprentice but I'm still a jedi!!!"-thing just doesn't work when you play a very pro-sith inquisitor who would prefer to kill jedi on sight. It really doesn't take no more of an "edgelord" to wish to see her gone than it takes an "edgelord" to wish to see Kaliyo gone.

 

Quinn does start asking for favors in some conversation trees, which could be enough to set some people off, but yeah, killing him on Iokath is weird. As mentioned I still do it because I don't want him in my story or Alliance, though. BW really should have left the kill option in the original and positioned Vette as the healer instead; if there have been a kill option during the Quinncident I would have taken it with no regrets.

 

I don't know, I think wanting to kill off a character for being annoying IS more edgelord than wanting to kill someone like Kaliyo who brings you to someone who wants to take your hands, or someone like Quinn who tries to murder you and your crew. Ashara doesn't say she's still a Jedi, really. By the end of the class story if you actually talk to her she's approving of DS choices and repeating the Sith code.

 

But I do think there should be a way to refuse any companion or remove them from your story if you don't want them there, because we do all have our own tastes and characters we like and hate. My point is that I wish they would always have a middle of the road option instead of making it just kill-or-keep.

[Lammia]

I don't know, I think wanting to kill off a character for being annoying IS more edgelord than wanting to kill someone like Kaliyo who brings you to someone who wants to take your hands, or someone like Quinn who tries to murder you and your crew. Ashara doesn't say she's still a Jedi, really. By the end of the class story if you actually talk to her she's approving of DS choices and repeating the Sith code.

 

That is simply incorrect. Don't assign him more crimes.

[Xbladez]

Quinn does start asking for favors in some conversation trees, which could be enough to set some people off, but yeah, killing him on Iokath is weird. As mentioned I still do it because I don't want him in my story or Alliance, though. BW really should have left the kill option in the original and positioned Vette as the healer instead; if there have been a kill option during the Quinncident I would have taken it with no regrets.

 

I don't know, I think wanting to kill off a character for being annoying IS more edgelord than wanting to kill someone like Kaliyo who brings you to someone who wants to take your hands, or someone like Quinn who tries to murder you and your crew. Ashara doesn't say she's still a Jedi, really. By the end of the class story if you actually talk to her she's approving of DS choices and repeating the Sith code.

 

But I do think there should be a way to refuse any companion or remove them from your story if you don't want them there, because we do all have our own tastes and characters we like and hate. My point is that I wish they would always have a middle of the road option instead of making it just kill-or-keep.

^^^Exactly, very well said, thank you!

[Seireeni]

Quinn does start asking for favors in some conversation trees, which could be enough to set some people off, but yeah, killing him on Iokath is weird. As mentioned I still do it because I don't want him in my story or Alliance, though. BW really should have left the kill option in the original and positioned Vette as the healer instead; if there have been a kill option during the Quinncident I would have taken it with no regrets.

 

I don't know, I think wanting to kill off a character for being annoying IS more edgelord than wanting to kill someone like Kaliyo who brings you to someone who wants to take your hands, or someone like Quinn who tries to murder you and your crew. Ashara doesn't say she's still a Jedi, really. By the end of the class story if you actually talk to her she's approving of DS choices and repeating the Sith code.

 

But I do think there should be a way to refuse any companion or remove them from your story if you don't want them there, because we do all have our own tastes and characters we like and hate. My point is that I wish they would always have a middle of the road option instead of making it just kill-or-keep.

 

I don't think there's that big of a difference between wanting a character dead because you dislike them for reason A, and for wanting them dead because you dislike them for reason B. But you're entitled to your opinion, of course.

 

But yeah, having to choose between killing someone and recruiting them must suck if you don't want the army of companions Bioware is giving us. :/ Hopefully they would have more options in the future! (I think some companions do have those middle ground -options, too, but not all of them.)

[Eshvara]

That is simply incorrect. Don't assign him more crimes.

 

I recall him wanting to kill your crew as well. I could be wrong as it's been a long time. I think he wanted to spare Jaesa because of her powers?

[IoNonSoEVero]

That is simply incorrect. Don't assign him more crimes.

 

Quinn outright says he's going to murder members of your crew if they don't join Baras.

 

1:21: "Once you're gone, your crew will either join Baras with me or be killed."

[aerockyul]

I recall him wanting to kill your crew as well. I could be wrong as it's been a long time. I think he wanted to spare Jaesa because of her powers?

 

He wanted to kill Pierce since the moment he met him. I always love making Quinn squirm by favoring Pierce. He is not a fan of Vette, either.

 

Hey, Quinn has his own giant thread!!

 

Back to Ashara--I've been having a good time using her with my Togruta sorc. The conversations feel more familial and I'm enjoying playing off that thought.

 

BTW, for that year and a half I waited for Ashara, I thought Veeroa Denz was a really good substitute. Kind of similar ambient dialogue, same fighting style, different species but similar tentacles (I know there are specific names for each species for those, but I always mix them up and...come on, they're tentacles, and lovely af)

[Seireeni]

Quinn is hardly the only weapon Baras has in his toolkit, so he doesn't necessarily mean he will personally go and murder him. Just that Baras' plan for them is death or execution.

 

Kaliyo doesn't intentionally bring you to someone who wants to cut off your hands, either -- she had a deal for something else with her anarchist buddies, but when they saw the agent, they decided to change the deal. But people have argued that she somehow planned the whole thing, and I don't really want to stir that pot.

 

And none of this has anything to do with Ashara, so, uh, change of topic?

[SithKoriandr]

I used to not care for Ashara at all. Ran many an Inquisitor and just couldn't stand her. Then I ran my last one and I liked her

 

Still haven't gotten fond of Khem, like so many seem to have, but Ashara is now important to get back for my Inquisitor

[Damask_Rose]

Quinn outright says he's going to murder members of your crew if they don't join Baras.

 

1:21: "Once you're gone, your crew will either join Baras with me or be killed."

 

That's just the Sith way. It comes up early in the Inquisitor story when Zash "dies" and Thanaton goes after all of her followers. He was stating a fact of life in the Empire.

 

And FYI according to the author of the Warrior story, Quinn trying to kill your warrior was only one of two intended interpretations. Quinn deliberately sabotaging his attempt with the expectation of dying is equally valid.

[IoNonSoEVero]

That's just the Sith way. It comes up early in the Inquisitor story when Zash "dies" and Thanaton goes after all of her followers. He was stating a fact of life in the Empire.

 

And FYI according to the author of the Warrior story, Quinn trying to kill your warrior was only one of two intended interpretations. Quinn deliberately sabotaging his attempt with the expectation of dying is equally valid.

 

No, it's not just the Sith way. Quinn's not a Sith and Baras doesn't operate on the same old tradition as Thanaton. In fact he offers Jaesa a place with Baras and considers it for Pierce; he's not automatically killing everyone like Thanaton does. Thanaton is said to be old fashioned even among Sith.

 

And I do know that a lot of people headcanon it that Quinn really didn't mean to kill your Warrior; that he would have known full well that something as silly as droids couldn't really hurt you at that point. Makes sense, although I still hate his guts because of his bootlicking and overall personality. Anyway, though, Ashara....

[IoNonSoEVero]

I used to not care for Ashara at all. Ran many an Inquisitor and just couldn't stand her. Then I ran my last one and I liked her

 

Still haven't gotten fond of Khem, like so many seem to have, but Ashara is now important to get back for my Inquisitor

 

I will say that I didn't care for her at all when I first picked her up, but in talking to her I really grew to like her.

 

I am curious as to what they will do for her in the reunion and where she has been hiding out all these years.

[Eshvara]

although I still hate his guts because of his bootlicking and overall personality.

 

But... My Lord? 😔

 

 

Doesn't Quinn have to be boot licking though? He is working for a Sith, it's kinda what imps do?🤔

Maybe he takes it a little bit further than let's say, Vector or Talos, but still!

Edited March 8, 2018 by Eshvara

[Damask_Rose]

No, it's not just the Sith way. Quinn's not a Sith and Baras doesn't operate on the same old tradition as Thanaton. In fact he offers Jaesa a place with Baras and considers it for Pierce; he's not automatically killing everyone like Thanaton does. Thanaton is said to be old fashioned even among Sith.

 

And I do know that a lot of people headcanon it that Quinn really didn't mean to kill your Warrior; that he would have known full well that something as silly as droids couldn't really hurt you at that point. Makes sense, although I still hate his guts because of his bootlicking and overall personality. Anyway, though, Ashara....

 

If Baras didn't see a use for Jaesa or Pierce for his own personal gain, he would have killed them. That's absolutely the kind of sith he was, whether that would be considered old fashioned or not. Baras didn't have a merciful bone in his body.

 

And it's not headcannon if that is what the author intended. I wasn't trying to win you over to Quinn's side. I know that would be impossible. (Much like you'd be very hard pressed to convince me Lana is anything but dull as dirt.) I was merely attempting to point out that the same scene can be interpreted two very different ways and both be right.

[Seireeni]

I am curious as to what they will do for her in the reunion and where she has been hiding out all these years.

 

Didn't Ranos or someone like that say that Ashara was doing quite a lot of stuff on her own, and sometimes was seen as the hero, and sometimes as the villain? Might be that she got in trouble and had to literally lay low because she pissed off the wrong person -- either some bad guy who didn't take it well when their plans were ruined by her, or she did some morally questionable or illegal because she thought it was the right thing to do and got the law enforcement or something after her.

 

Something with moral conflict and grey area would be great for her, but since it's probably gonna be another 3 minute cutscene, I doubt they can fit much of that in.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Seireeni

[IoNonSoEVero]

Didn't Ranos or someone like that say that Ashara was doing quite a lot of stuff on her own, and sometimes was seen as the hero, and sometimes as the villain? Might be that she got in trouble and had to literally lay low because she pissed off the wrong person -- either some bad guy who didn't take it well when their plans were ruined by her, or she did some morally questionable or illegal because she thought it was the right thing to do and got the law enforcement or something after her.

 

Something with moral conflict and grey area would be great for her, but since it's probably gonna be another 3 minute cutscene, I doubt they can fit much of that in.

 

Curious: What does Darth Hexid say about her?

 

Toward the end of the class story she's repeating the Sith code along with the Jedi code and approving of some DS choices, and in the intro to SoR you see her using the Dark Side. It seemed like Ashara was developing her own moral code, and that it swings to both sides (which would fit with the "new way" of using the Force one heard about in KOTFE).

 

I'd love to hear that she's been off on a personal exploration quest or something, but yeah, given that it's going to be three minutes, and she's not going to be a character for all, it's not likely to be as deep as all that.