Compared to other mmos.

[SaerethDL]

Compared to other mmo's like WoW, ESO, and many others.. ya'll haven't really done much. There is hardly any content besides the base game from 2011.. yall added an hour of content (maybe) this whole year. Ya'll invest more in the cartel market than you do on producing quality content for your game that people want to play.. I'm playing eso now because of it and you know what, just one of their DLCs is bigger than one of your whole expansion, which is sad. I'd love to come back to this game and start playing again, just give me a reason.

 

What's the excuse for having the star wars kotor name and a big name like bioware and EA, but you can't get the proper funding for new content and new features? 7 years and not much to say for it. Enjoyed most of the time I spent playing this mmo, but star wars is so over saturated right now and milked, the star wars theme is no longer keeping me here. I suggest people stop supporting this game through the cartel market and maybe they will have to add some content and do something, or let the game die. And you know, that's okay! Dying isn't a bad thing, it opens up a new door and leaves room for new life. Possibly a KOTOR 3, or new Star Wars MMO.

 

You want me back? Put in the work, the time and effort.. make quality content. Actually invest in your product. I'll support your game again. Other mmo's like ESO and WOW, eso for example is producing 4 big DLC packs a year plus an Expansion.. WoW has produced patches bigger than all of swtor expansions combined, plus they're on their what 7th expansion or more? Where they add new worlds, new classes, new abilities, new features, new races, and new reasons for people to resub or continue their subs!

[YungDemon]

Agreed. Never thought I'd be one of those guys, but this game is dead to me now. I'm just letting my sub run out at this point, I don't even log in anymore. Edited January 21, 2018 by YungDemon

[Rheshalea]

but star wars is so over saturated right now and milked

 

Please elaborate on this. I know there's some (at least one?) mobile SW games, some LEGO SW games, and BattleFront II that people shun like a pestilent leper. And then SWTOR. And yes, a bunch of painfully old Star Wars games, but those aren't "right now".

 

If I've missed other modern Star Wars games, please let me know so I can go check them out.

(No sarcasm, I really am interested!)

[Tsillah]

Compared to other mmo's like WoW, ESO, and many others.. ya'll haven't really done much. There is hardly any content besides the base game from 2011.. yall added an hour of content (maybe) this whole year. Ya'll invest more in the cartel market than you do on producing quality content for your game that people want to play.. I'm playing eso now because of it and you know what, just one of their DLCs is bigger than one of your whole expansion, which is sad. I'd love to come back to this game and start playing again, just give me a reason.

 

What's the excuse for having the star wars kotor name and a big name like bioware and EA, but you can't get the proper funding for new content and new features? 7 years and not much to say for it. Enjoyed most of the time I spent playing this mmo, but star wars is so over saturated right now and milked, the star wars theme is no longer keeping me here. I suggest people stop supporting this game through the cartel market and maybe they will have to add some content and do something, or let the game die. And you know, that's okay! Dying isn't a bad thing, it opens up a new door and leaves room for new life. Possibly a KOTOR 3, or new Star Wars MMO.

Although I can understand the general idea in your post, I really do hate it when people try to support their opinions with things that are grossly exaggerated or false.

 

The two things I marked in blue in this case. The game in 2011 as it came out in December of that year had all the original story content but released with one operation and not that many flash points. We've had quite a few of those added since then and a lot of other things have been adedd to the game that didn't exist back then like GSF and Strongholds.

 

Now I do agree that the content stream has become a lot less and I agree much bigger expansions are in order, but the game has grown quite a bit still since release, just not as much as we'd like or in a direction we'd ve liked. One of my major complaints is that the GC system has devaluated a lot of the content that is in the game and by making so many things so easy and not rewarding the harder content, it gets boring more quickly. So what they did add over the years they don't use properly.

 

That also brings me to the next point. The game was released just over 6 years ago. To say 7 years is a rather liberal interpretation that I don't feel is correct.

 

Beyond that I agree the game is stale for me as well and I've unsubbed now waiting for a reason to resub. Will the roadmap give me reason to resub? That'll be the question for me. But until I have a reason to resub all my expenditures on this game have come to a grinding halt again.

 

It seems that I can't play this game for more than 4-6 months anymore without taking an equally long break from it. I grow tired of that dynamic as well. I can't really call this my main game anymore if I don't play it half the year (which was the case already in 2017).

[Tsillah]

Please elaborate on this. I know there's some (at least one?) mobile SW games, some LEGO SW games, and BattleFront II that people shun like a pestilent leper. And then SWTOR. And yes, a bunch of painfully old Star Wars games, but those aren't "right now".

 

If I've missed other modern Star Wars games, please let me know so I can go check them out.

(No sarcasm, I really am interested!)

I think he means Star Wars in general, not Star Wars games as such.

[Izorii]

I agree with the original post. I want to like this game but with such limited species and limited content I just have no reason to stay and will cancel my sub. I hope they add some stuff to make me come back I really want to.

[translucentwolf]

You want me back?

 

Wow. Another one of these threads.

 

Just leave. Nobody cares.

[Tsillah]

Nobody cares.

Well that's your opinion but that's clearly something you cannot substantiate.

 

Considering that the game has just gone down to 5 servers of which only 2 are decently populated, I'd be careful about not caring about people leaving the game. SWTOR doesn't have a lot of room for error left anymore and I suppose I assume that you want this game to survive for a while yet.

[translucentwolf]

I'd be careful about not caring about people leaving the game.

 

Still not caring. The people who still *play* the game are playing it. The ones who want to complain and whine, and basically troll each other all day come here. And here we are.

 

Go play the game. Or don't.

 

I don't care.

 

Nobody else does either.

[DawnAskham]

WoW was the right MMO at the right time and was able to grow their sub base into a very large number well before the competition even got started, and has been able to leverage and reinvest the earnings from their early growth into large ongoing budgets for expansions and non-expansion patch content (as well as having a sticky product with a high network effect).

 

SWTOR came out at a time of high MMO competition, and thus had a much higher bar to reach in order to attract and retain a large audience, and sadly failed to do so in spite of having one of the best IPs on the planet (poor game performance at launch with limited and simple end game content didn't help). Decisions since launch have been a mixed bag, though it would be hard not to argue the last several years of decisions on content have been failures if judged by their lack of ability to grow or even stabilize the game's population.

 

ESO had similar challenges to SWTOR (poor launch, crowded field), but also expanded to other platforms (Xbox, PS4), which seemed to help stabilize the game a bit better than SWTOR, but it has some of the same hallmarks of SWTOR in that the initial expansions and DLCs were much more involved than the later ones, and they seem to have been forced into a similar high reliance of loot box gambling for revenue over maintaining subscriptions, so only time will tell if they can sustain the game and content at the same pace going forward.

 

Anyways, SWTOR had a chance at launch and blew it - and has had a couple of opportunities to at least stabilize the game over the years, but the combination of (most likely) a very poor game engine / back-end systems, too much reliance on loot box gambling revenue, low quality (persistent bugs, annoyances, exploits), and bad decision making coupled with EA's lack of investment mean the likelihood of seeing major content returning to the game is very, very low.

 

The original content is still highly enjoyable, and for anyone who has never played the game, there are a lot of content to explore and enjoy - but for anyone who has spent significant time playing the game, there is very little in the way of new content to maintain ongoing engagement.

 

I still enjoy the time I spend when I play - which is about once a year, though sadly it doesn't take more than a couple of hours to complete all the content released in the past year, and while the old content is still enjoyable, at least to me it isn't enough to keep me entertained anymore.

Edited January 21, 2018 by DawnAskham

[Tsillah]

I don't care.

 

Nobody else does either.

That you don't care is clear and fair enough. To say nobody cares is just you overestimating your personal opinion.

 

OF course you do care enough to whine about whiners.

[Eshvara]

Well, I care!

 

*Not that anyone cares what I care about* But still!

 

I rather see people coming in/staying than leaving. All subs matter!

Edited January 21, 2018 by Eshvara

[ShieldProtection]

If you REALLY compare this game to WoW, then its safe to assume you have health problems.

 

1. Blizzard develops and publishes their own games.

2. Blizzard have their own total control on their own games.

3. Activision does not mess with Blizzard's developing policies, as Activision already making billions with Call of Duty FPS series, separate developer.

4. BioWare is a slave of EA, BioWare does not have control on their own games, a single word from EA's HQ can end BioWare's life.

5. EA does not provide enough resources and manpower to BioWare to do content. Thats %100 obvious.

 

I suggest you check your facts.

 

Also remember other minor developers under EA's control gets %100 income for their own projects, DICE gets income like crazy to do Battlefield games every two year or so. Even Need For Speed dev gets fair amount of resources. Remember Maxis? Original developer of Sims/Simcity series, now in its grave long gone.

 

Its all about money now, passion is gone. We will never get games like Sims 1, Red Alert again.

 

Titanfall 2 also already abandoned thanks to EA's marketing decisions.

 

If any of my words is incorrect, feel free to correct me, I'm not an expert. Just a simple gamer.

Edited January 21, 2018 by ShieldProtection

[LunaticFringer]

It does feel like EA/Bioware is far more interested in gambling on Anthem and the FPS crowd over this particular game right now. I guess I do get it... but, yeah, many of us have been through this mmorpg rodeo before and to arbitrarily say nobody cares would be projecting as much as those that state that everyone is leaving the game.

 

Clearly both are false. As with other games, yes... even SWG, people stayed long after it was declared dead because there were players that still liked it. But it takes no small amount of ego to declare that the people leaving don't matter.

 

Those were the same subs that supported the game to try and get it to a better place before finally giving up on things getting better. You know, so the players still here could enjoy it. Not saying we've got to agree on each other's opinions on any particular item with the game. Just that it matters if players stop playing.

 

This is not a trap.

 

As far as comparing it to other mmorpgs? I think this is one comparison that is ok to make. When the amount or quality of content isn't on par with the competition... it makes sense to point it out. Now to directly compare game mechanics is the slippery slope... that's where apples and oranges come in.

 

Though, the OP was off on some elements to be sure. But someone already clarified those.

 

I myself am giving it the rest of my 90 days via that Amazon package deal before I make my final decision about SWTOR... but it already isn't looking good.

[ShieldProtection]

It does feel like EA/Bioware is far more interested in gambling on Anthem and the FPS crowd over this particular game right now. I guess I do get it... but, yeah, many of us have been through this mmorpg rodeo before and to arbitrarily say nobody cares would be projecting as much as those that state that everyone is leaving the game.

 

Clearly both are false. As with other games, yes... even SWG, people stayed long after it was declared dead because there were players that still liked it. But it takes no small amount of ego to declare that the people leaving don't matter.

 

Those were the same subs that supported the game to try and get it to a better place before finally giving up on things getting better. You know, so the players still here could enjoy it. Not saying we've got to agree on each other's opinions on any particular item with the game. Just that it matters if players stop playing.

 

This is not a trap.

 

As far as comparing it to other mmorpgs? I think this is one comparison that is ok to make. When the amount or quality of content isn't on par with the competition... it makes sense to point it out. Now to directly compare game mechanics is the slippery slope... that's where apples and oranges come in.

 

Though, the OP was off on some elements to be sure. But someone already clarified those.

 

I myself am giving it the rest of my 90 days via that Amazon package deal before I make my final decision about SWTOR... but it already isn't looking good.

 

well honestly I do love SWTOR , I do love story based games, especially the ones gives me an companion and "look you have a companion go explore the world" call me stupid if u want but I do like this type of games. Without a story there are no games worth to play in my opinion.

 

If BioWare/EA going to kill off this game, then I'm pretty much done with their games. I liked Mass Effect/Dragon Age games but SWTOR is more important to me. I prefer spend my cash on other games if thats the case anytime soon,

 

As for the Anthem, its just a copy of Destiny crap, I can call that even without seeing any gameplay videos.

 

its sad and painful to see what BioWare come to, they probably going to shut down them as well just like EA did on other devs in past. EA uses developers and then throw them away like a toilet paper.

[Yorioko]

The game is not the problem the players are.

 

If we go into the game and the game alone, removing the players for a bit.

then what we have is a 8 class ( main classes not specs) main story line,this is not in every mmo, and I doubt it is in wow, but haven't really played it.

Second is when we look at the content, then this is tailored around the 8 stories, with added features like raids and other group content and pvp content, THAT is it.

 

However it seems players "want" the game be something else, the players want something the was not and perhaps was never meant to be.

It was never meant to be a pvp game for one, it has pvp content, it has players that has never progressed in non pvp content outside getting level 10 on the start planet and leveled up through pvp alone.

 

There are those that "only" do raids

 

Yet the game is NOT meant for ny of that, it is meant to be a somewhat interactive story focused mostly on the content of the 8 stories told.

 

So to compare it to MMOs that have a totally different design is perhaps wrong, when it should be rather understanding what the game actually is, and not what we want it to be or imagine it is.

[Bakgrind]

The game is not the problem the players are.

 

If we go into the game and the game alone, removing the players for a bit.

then what we have is a 8 class ( main classes not specs) main story line,this is not in every mmo, and I doubt it is in wow, but haven't really played it.

Second is when we look at the content, then this is tailored around the 8 stories, with added features like raids and other group content and pvp content, THAT is it.

 

However it seems players "want" the game be something else, the players want something the was not and perhaps was never meant to be.

It was never meant to be a pvp game for one, it has pvp content, it has players that has never progressed in non pvp content outside getting level 10 on the start planet and leveled up through pvp alone.

 

There are those that "only" do raids

 

Yet the game is NOT meant for ny of that, it is meant to be a somewhat interactive story focused mostly on the content of the 8 stories told.

 

So to compare it to MMOs that have a totally different design is perhaps wrong, when it should be rather understanding what the game actually is, and not what we want it to be or imagine it is.

 

So how is any of what you just listed the fault of the player base? Because clearly it is the fault of the developers for not knowing whom their targeted audience was or what kind of content should be put into mmorpg.

[Yorioko]

So how is any of what you just listed the fault of the player base? Because clearly it is the fault of the developers for not knowing whom their targeted audience was or what kind of content should be put into mmorpg.

 

Not really.

 

Suppose you make a normal ford. not a race car in any way.

then you have a bodyshop to add spoilers and stripes......but still do not have a race car.

so you then drive though 99% of the city in a car that serves its purpose, but you want to drive fast and reckless like a race car, so you do

then you complain that the there is something wrong in the game design, or the target group?

 

How can this be...the target group was NEVER intended to be the race car drivers, but those driving a "blinged" out car.

 

With this I mean......I make a game, add a FEATURE to this game to reach "more" players, the bulk of my players however do not depend on ONE feature of the game, but the game as a whole.

 

If we then look at WHAT players do, and WHAT the game is designed around we see a conflict.

 

Group Finder, as it is stated in the "advertising load screen texts" are all about pulling PUGs for (heroic), flashpoint and operations as well as PVP.

The load screen says roughly quoted that if you don't have a friend on line or a guild mate etc, then you can use the GF to find a group and go for it.

 

However people use GF to "tailor" groups and then complain they can't find the right ones etc etc.

 

Same goes for the overall content of the game. We all favor certain aspects, be it PVP or GSF all are features we are introduced to, and by the game ( not the players that are AIDS in pvp especially) encouraged to try out.

 

However, some people found out that some of the PVP content ( ranked ) was to them , and to them alone lacing in content, this made them migrate to the unranked WZs that regardless of how people use them, were NOT intended for anything "serious" like that of ranked PVP, but as an introduction to new players.

 

I have been to the wzs, not very much, and less than I would want to...this has nothing to with the game or the design, but only the players who do not understand that the unranked are for all and the raned is for the "elite", this is after all why there is a qualify for the ranked yes.....

 

I would welcome a discussion about adding more ranked and unranked PVP content, but the fact that one is not appealing and boring does not make it a right for others to "occupy" another part of the feature that was NOT meant for it.

 

Again this a MMO issue, players usually want more or different than what the game is and meant to be.

 

SWTOR was never ever meant to be a pvp/raid MMO, it was meant be and IS, a class storyline MMO with added features.

 

So to compare with a game where raid or pvp or anything else has a different purpose can not be done

[Lunablade]

Yet the game is NOT meant for ny of that, it is meant to be a somewhat interactive story focused mostly on the content of the 8 stories told.

 

So to compare it to MMOs that have a totally different design is perhaps wrong, when it should be rather understanding what the game actually is, and not what we want it to be or imagine it is.

 

If it would be designed as what you're just saying I don't think how it would : include raids,warzones and Illum content as an area in which massive pvp battles would take place from the start in the first place, be advertised as an subscription based MMO with all the bells and whistles which all usual MMO-s have included with the trailers like Deceived for example after which many players which saw it did thought how it would support large scale open world pvp fights

, and have classes which are copies of one of another with different animations on both sides for balance purposes but instead as an single player game with maybe co-op option. Edited January 21, 2018 by Lunablade

[Valceanu]

There are two types of players in mmorpg's. There is the mmo people and then there is the RPG people. Personally I am firmly in the latter. I care more about story, character development, interaction with story characters (NPCs), the game being fully voiced and all that jazz then I do about the mmo side of the game. Now, I am a very sociable person so I do tend to like having a laugh in guild chat, doing PvP and PvE group content and I agree that we do need more content at a quicker rate. However, if it comes at the cost of the RPG elements then that is when the game loses me for good. I player WoW from launch to WotLK but I would struggle to go back to it now having gone through the fully voiced story experience that is SWTOR irrespective of the amount of content they put out. I've been around SWTOR on and off since launch and really no other MMORPG has managed to capture my interest in the meantime. And to top it off none of the other mmorpg's on the market have the SW IP which I personally love. Is TOR the best MMOrpg on the market? Probably not. But it is the best mmoRPG on the market. See what I did there?! lol.

 

At least for me that is the case... And it will likely continue to be so until either we get another SW mmorpg or a truly phenomenal game captures my interest. Like I've said, none of the other mmorpg's on the market have managed to do so thus far...

Edited January 21, 2018 by Valceanu

[Yorioko]

If it would be designed as what you're just saying I don't think how it would include raids,warzones and Illum content as an area in which massive pvp battles would take place from the start in the first place, advertised as an subscription based MMO with all the bells and whistles which all usual MMO-s have included, with the trailers like Deceived for example after which many players which saw it did thought how it would support large scale open world pvp fights

but instead as an single player game with maybe co-op option.

 

 

 

Gree event!

Large sacle pvp on liium, it happens and has happened.

 

However even this was ADDED FEATURES, and only this....again to draw in more players who like that type of play.

Does it lack in these aspects, maybe and maybe not.

 

It is the players fault if he begins to RP in battlefron and don't find the RP environment he wants, becuse the game was never designed with that in mind.

 

SWTOR is and was designed and conceptualized as a story driven MMO, with the "normal" MMO features like raids, pvp and GSF , but playing second fiddle in the priority which is the story driven narrative.

 

To give players things to do, pvp, raids etc was introduced.

PVP and much more opens up at level 10, this does not make the game PVP game after lvl 10, but a game that offer a limited PVP options for those that seek it.......

 

Now a player that lets say decided to stop his story at lvl 10 and go only pvp and raids from then on, has a place in the game, but will never have a prioritized place as that was never in any way the intention of the game.

 

So most other than bug is actually ONLY on the players and not the game itself.

 

Again I design a car that can be fitted with a spoiler and racing paint, but is never a race car, and it is the one thinking it is race that is wrong, not me who never made a car tht was intended as a race car, but a car that could be "blinged" up.

And that is what SWTOR is, a ailry limited story driven narrative storybased MMO with ADDED featues only, features that will and should in the game concept play second fiddle

[Lunablade]

SWTOR is and was designed and conceptualized as a story driven MMO, with the "normal" MMO features like raids, pvp and GSF , but playing second fiddle in the priority which is the story driven narrative.

 

 

Yes the game was advertised as an story driven MMO and sure most people did know that story will be important feature of this game from the start and how that will be one of the qualities which will differ it from other MMOS but nowhere was said that MMO activities will come just only as an afterthought for the game. Term MMO on itself describes the games which are based around massively multiplayer content and which support that kind of content as their base game and because of that I just don't think how this game was designed to be based around 70 % lets say single player story content and 30 % of everything else or even less because if that would be the case than it would never be advertised as an MMO but as an ORPG ( online rpg ) with multiplayer options added as an addition to it, and I don't think how it would be released as an subscription based game either.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Lunablade

[Yorioko]

Yes the game was advertised as an story driven MMO and sure most people did know that story will be important feature of this game from the start and how that will be one of the qualities which will differ it from other MMOS but nowhere was said that MMO activities will come just only as an afterthought for the game. Term MMO on itself describes the games which are based around massively multiplayer content and which support that kind of content as their base game and because of that I just don't think how this game was designed to be based around 70 % lets say single player story content and 30 % of everything else or even less because if that would be the case than it would never be advertised as an MMO but as an ORPG ( online rpg ) with multiplayer options added as an addition to it, and I don't think how it would be released as an subscription based game either.

 

Yes and no.

ORPG is not fitting to star wars, not because of the MMO features like GSF or Raids, but because it had zero RPG options.

Simply having a "class" following a story is no longer considered RP, and the elements that is needed for RP was never implemented to an RP standard in SWTOR, so it si a story driven MMO.

 

MMO as it is multiple players doing the game at the same time, with even most of the areas in the game world being open and roamable.

SWTOR never offered any of the features that is in an ORPG, and such is is a hybrid if you will, but leaning much more to the MMO side.

 

If we look to emotes we have really nothing, we can't freely sit on "any" chair or table for that matter like in a ORPG where the world is much more interactive.

 

so SWTOR is Story driven MMO with features of pvp and raiding content, though we could argue if the latter is "much" enough ot if more is needed

[DanNV]

4. BioWare is a slave of EA, BioWare does not have control on their own games, a single word from EA's HQ can end BioWare's life.

 

For facts that need checking... BW does not exist in aything but name. It is a brand name owned by EA and applied to a department within EA. But, the entire company is EA. There is no separate entity called BW.

 

If Anthem flops or SWTOR finishes dying, expect to see the BW name retired. They'll assign the employees they want to keep to other departments and move on. EA and it's share holders won't care.

 

Personally, I am waiting for the loot box thing to come to a crashing halt when enough legislative bodies declare them gambling. Then EA will be in real trouble since that's their primary money making enterprise, not the half baked games they've been putting out.

[ravedark]

I've played many MMOs and I can't say I've played many with full voice acting, an interesting story, and 8 different stories. I'm pretty flexible as well, I don't mind playing multiple MMOs (currently playing XAOC online, Black Desert, Vindictus, Asta, Runescape, etc..) and there's no point in comparing them because they're all unique in their own ways.

 

This thread seems a bit silly...