Death of a Game.

[IoNonSoEVero]

There are also people like me, who are solo players, who live for story and stuff like strongholds. I tend to spend 80% of my game time inside my houses, so yeah, I can see how we'd not make the list of 'what's left.'

 

I'm more or less in the same boat. My characters have their own stories, but I don't engage in RPing, and I run the game with all chat channels turned off, including /say and /whisper. I am there for the story and if I run things like solo flashpoints over and over, it's to either get the decos or get credits for decos, or because I like the scenery or environment. I did the flashpoints with great anxiety (and moral support from friends) to get Darth Hexid, and I do have a handful of friends I talk to and run stuff with from time to time, but for me this is a solo experience and that's how I prefer it. I'm sure that's not really counted because although I subscribe like everyone else, players who want to keep to themselves are considered anathema to a lot of the "IT'S AN MMO" types.

Edited January 6, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Lunafox]

I'm more or less in the same boat. My characters have their own stories, but I don't engage in RPing, and I run the game with all chat channels turned off, including /say and /whisper. I am there for the story and if I run things like solo flashpoints over and over, it's to either get the decos or get credits for decos, or because I like the scenery or environment. I did the flashpoints with great anxiety (and moral support from friends) to get Darth Hexid, and I do have a handful of friends I talk to and run stuff with from time to time, but for me this is a solo experience and that's how I prefer it. I'm sure that's not really counted because although I subscribe like everyone else, players who want to keep to themselves are considered anathema to a lot of the "IT'S AN MMO" types.

 

Yep, peas in a pod for sure. I got Hexid as well, but I went the other way on the anxiety spectrum, I did the pvp for her. I did find it fun, but that was never really the problem, it was the toxic people, but in the time that I was doing it I was lucky and didn't encounter many nasty people. So, I still do a bit of it from time to time and probably will so long as people stay nice, or at very least quiet with their opinions about what others do.

 

But yeah, 99% of the time I solo, it's what I enjoy most...I play my game, my way, MMO or not. The only thing I really need others for is for GTN business, aside from that, it's me, myself and I.

[spectreclees]

i don't listen to people who say this game is dying, if you think its dying leave the game and click delete and dont ever come back or stop your ************ and ****

 

Covering your ears and yelling at the top of your lungs doesn't change the fact that the game is in fact not doing well.

[DWho]

The only reason to continue creating posts that say "the game is dying" or "the game is dead" is to hasten its demise. There are apparently people on these forums that would like nothing less than for the game to close so they can say "I told you so". Continually posting the game is dying threads creates a negative image of the game (which it doesn't need help with right now) and causes people either to not try out the game or to leave it because of those posts (after all these are subscribers and veterans and they must know what they are talking about) thus hastening its demise. If you think the game is dying that's fine but stop trying to do damage to the game by driving away players.

[Eli_Porter]

The dude obviously hasn't played the game in a while. He's still upset over the closure of SWG and created this video out of spite, knowing full well the damage he can deal to the game by saying it's dead to a hundred thousand people.

 

He does raise a good point about the engine issues, and needing more sandbox elements in the game, but that's about it. The "watch the video i say the game isn't actually dead" is a cop-out, and it's him basically admitting to clickbait or even slander.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Eli_Porter

[Atim]

However the moderator had a biased view due to being a SWG fan.

 

I don't see why that should invalidate his, or anyone else's, opinion. I and many others were former SWG players, and while there are some things I would have preferred SWTOR mimic (space combat, more open PVP, crafting), I never expected this game to be the KOTOR expansion for SWG. In fact, having lived through the early days of the NGE mess, I hoped this game would be different and not make the same mistakes that were made with its predecessor.

 

There are no words for how excited I was to see a KOTOR MMO was being made several years ago. Especially after SWG went to hell with the NGE. I followed the development on this game more than any other. This was my go-to after CoH died. I want SWTOR to succeed and will sub till the servers go dark, but, man, it's hard to have a positive outlook these days. Especially when you see how much better other games in the genre are doing, and I'm not talking about the heavy-hitters like WoW and ESO. I mean the ones that manage to quietly chug along without major press, like DCUO, BSGO, and STO.

 

Here's to hoping someone at Disney or EAware comes along and sees the potential here and puts forth the effort to revive this game and make it into the game it should have been.

[Costello]

The guy seems to have done some homework on the state of the game and how it got to this point. Far more than just saying an opinion and it must be true cause I want it to be.

 

Looking at the state of the game now, I doubt anyone thinks shutting down the West Coast Server was because the game is doing well, you don't risk driving off APAC and West Coast Players unless you really have to. Then look at the yellow posts on the forums, the few that there are, mainly deal with maintenance issues. I would hope dealing with queues and server issues would still be addressed even if the game was in maintenance mode so it is on a pretty low level of communication at the moment.

 

While the twitter account sends me an e-mail every few days telling me what is on sale in the CM while offering little news. I don't know if there is any other MMO that is so focused on their cash shop at least not one that requires a subscription to play the end game, though much of the end game is GC grind.

 

Other than a deep desire for the game to be doing well, there seems little evidence that it is. It would be nice to know what the subscriber levels are or how much is being invested in the game. Unlikely to happen, so instead we see posts defending the game which assume that any short comings is on a lack of staff. Which means that even the defense of the game is saying its in a bad way. Does anyone think there are 30 or 40 people working on the game building new areas and operations and PvP maps. Or is it felt that there are closer to 5 developers.

 

On a side note, how different is TOR combat from what was delivered in the NGE. Like many SWG players from the pre CU days, I can recall the freedom of class progression, the stacking of combat abilities, mind, stamina and Health Pools etc. But by the end this was all streamlined. If anything TOR combat has become the natural progression to the NGE, with more liner class progression with tab targeting combat. Sure space combat in SWGs was far better, crafting likewise was good and the open world feel was impressive. But at its core gameplay mechanics and factoring in age TOR built on what the NGE brought in and then added an amazing story system. So liking the two doesn't seem mutually exclusive.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Costello

[spectreclees]

The dude obviously hasn't played the game in a while. He's still upset over the closure of SWG and created this video out of spite, knowing full well the damage he can deal to the game by saying it's dead to a hundred thousand people.

 

He does raise a good point about the engine issues, and needing more sandbox elements in the game, but that's about it. The "watch the video i say the game isn't actually dead" is a cop-out, and it's him basically admitting to clickbait or even slander.

 

I don't think he even expresses any bad blood towards the closing of SWG because he makes a video why SWG died as well and makes excellent points there. You are basically doing exactly what he said you would do though and picking apart what he said because you don't want to read the fine print.

[DWho]

I don't think he even expresses any bad blood towards the closing of SWG because he makes a video why SWG died as well and makes excellent points there. You are basically doing exactly what he said you would do though and picking apart what he said because you don't want to read the fine print.

 

And the "game is dead" people are all in because he is saying what they want to hear. Is the game population decreasing, yes, and "the game is dead" posts contribute to that by driving players away or keeping them from trying out the game in the first place. Is the game "dead" no. He has a very specific definition of dead which amounts to "its not the game I want it to be anymore so its dead".

 

It seems there are a lot of people who disagree with his assessment

 

See:

https://www.saucygamer.com/best-2017-mmorpg-games-ranked3

https://www.techspot.com/article/1434-the-best-mmos/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/10-best-pc-mmos

http://www.gamesradar.com/best-mmorpg/

 

All posted in 2017

 

Here's one where the poster says SWTOR is "far from a dead MMO" (The discussion of SWTOR is near the end of the clip as it covers several MMOs)

Edited January 6, 2018 by DWho

[Eli_Porter]

I don't think he even expresses any bad blood towards the closing of SWG because he makes a video why SWG died as well and makes excellent points there. You are basically doing exactly what he said you would do though and picking apart what he said because you don't want to read the fine print.

 

The fine print doesn't matter, what matters is the video title. If he named the video "The troubles of SWTOR" or even "SWTOR is dying" I wouldn't mind it.

[spectreclees]

The fine print doesn't matter, what matters is the video title. If he named the video "The troubles of SWTOR" or even "SWTOR is dying" I wouldn't mind it.

It's a series... he's not going to change the title to make you feel better. He's done videos on actual dead games more than this.

 

And the "game is dead" people are all in because he is saying what they want to hear. Is the game population decreasing, yes, and "the game is dead" posts contribute to that by driving players away or keeping them from trying out the game in the first place. Is the game "dead" no. He has a very specific definition of dead which amounts to "its not the game I want it to be anymore so its dead".

 

It seems there are a lot of people who disagree with his assessment

 

See:

https://www.saucygamer.com/best-2017-mmorpg-games-ranked3

https://www.techspot.com/article/1434-the-best-mmos/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/10-best-pc-mmos

http://www.gamesradar.com/best-mmorpg/

 

All posted in 2017

 

Here's one where the poster says SWTOR is "far from a dead MMO" (The discussion of SWTOR is near the end of the clip as it covers several MMOs)

 

Read my posts in this thread. I never claimed it was dead personally. I think it's doing 'okay' but it's definitely not doing well either. This video highlighted why the person thought it 'failed' and why it's continuing to go into a downward trend. People seem to be upset that the title of the video is "Death of a Game" when I believe he even states the game is not technically dead. He lists the failings of the game and why it has continued to fade into obscurity. He highlights what it did right in the same video to make people understand where he was coming from.

 

The two posts I quoted continue to support his idea that people cannot have anyone talk bad about anything they enjoy. They just have to defend it.

Edited January 6, 2018 by spectreclees

[Kyrra_T]

It's a series... he's not going to change the title to make you feel better. He's done videos on actual dead games more than this.

......

The two posts I quoted continue to support his idea that people cannot have anyone talk bad about anything they enjoy. They just have to defend it.

 

It's called a 'discussion'. The civil (or not so civil, depending on the poster) exchange of ideas based on that person's point of view. There is nothing wrong with having said discussion.

[DWho]

The two posts I quoted continue to support his idea that people cannot have anyone talk bad about anything they enjoy. They just have to defend it.

 

One could say the same thing about any positive post about the game. They just have to tear it down.

 

The premise of the original post was "The Game is Dead" what do you think. I think that the game is doing alright, not spectacular, but all right. I posted links to support my position. So how exactly is that "They have to defend it". It looks to me to be an opposing point of view that a couple of people take offense to.

Edited January 6, 2018 by DWho

[Valceanu]

Something tells me that this year will be better for swtor then the last couple have been. The reality of the situation is that ofc the game had lost players and that has lead to server merges... But the fact that they have performed the merges while at the same time investing consistently in hardware for the remaining severe tells me that they have observed a relatively constant player base over the last couple of years. If you look at it from a certain point of view the merges (coupled with the investment in hardware) are actually a good thing. Why? Because it suggests EA/Bioware have finally come to the realization that this (what we have now) is the by and large as big as the game is ever going to get. Why is that good? Well because it means that enough time has passed and enough data gathered (with regard to the player base) that EA/Bioware can now fairly accurately predict future earnings. Which might make them less apprehensive about putting money into the game. It may be that they have been fairly reticent to make any significant investment simply due to the concern that it will not yield good return (because of the relatively big fluctuations in player numbers -mostly in a downward direction I would assume). Now that they have a fairly accurate picture it may be that we will see slightly more investment coming TORs way. Will it be huge? Probably not... But more then in previous years? I think it's a distinct possibility.

 

I realize the point I'm trying to make is a bit convoluted but hopefully it makes sense for the most part... lol

Edited January 7, 2018 by Valceanu

[Eli_Porter]

It's a series... he's not going to change the title to make you feel better. He's done videos on actual dead games more than this.

 

That's part of the point. This is a series talking about dead games, so including a living game in it is false advertising and clickbait.

 

I've been watching this series for about a year to relive old memories and learn about the mistakes of dead games, not watch as he uses his viewership power to spite games he doesn't like.

[Theeko]

The fine print doesn't matter, what matters is the video title. If he named the video "The troubles of SWTOR" or even "SWTOR is dying" I wouldn't mind it.

 

or Swtor is dead

[spectreclees]

One could say the same thing about any positive post about the game. They just have to tear it down.

 

The premise of the original post was "The Game is Dead" what do you think. I think that the game is doing alright, not spectacular, but all right. I posted links to support my position. So how exactly is that "They have to defend it". It looks to me to be an opposing point of view that a couple of people take offense to.

 

I don't have a problem if people acknowledge the points he made and disagree with some. I'm just saying the people blatantly calling him out saying we don't need this negativity. He's wrong! LALALALA cover my ears or take offense to the title of a series are the problems I have with the discussion.

[merovejec]

I don't see why that should invalidate his, or anyone else's, opinion.

 

Ok its not "invalidating" his opinion, its just that he is considering the game from a different perspective and he wanted to make the video NOT in the way that he is a SWG fan and wanted SWG 2 now, but still he went that road.

 

But its OK, I mean he had really great facts, which I have been trying to amass for years. I was constantly saying swtor has like 50k-150k subs etc and he even got to same numbers. The video was good but still it was not a neutral point of view. Like in my case swtor was the first MMO in general and I only play it and will keep on playing it since its Star Wars and the only SW game of its kind out now! I have no interest in a first person shooter which is Battlefront 2, constantly shooting, dying, respawn etc. There is no point in that, SW needs an MMO like swtor, but it failed in many ways, which is sad

[Lunablade]

The name of the video is kinda misleading , it would be better to be called the reasons why SWTOR is going downhill or why SWTOR didn't meet expectations of many players and is losing many still, but I watched it and I agree with the arguments which were brought in it 100 %.

 

I only hope that higher-ups at EA and BW will see it and turn the sinking ship around before it doesn't get to late for that to happen because the only SW MMO on the market could be so much more just if it would be managed better than it is.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Lunablade

[merovejec]

Overall we can agree on a few things.

 

1. Most of the players in the game are SOLO players who want to enjoy story, RP, solo stuff

2. The game is not dead now, but is going downhill

3. There is still profit from the game eventhough the sub number may be around 100k-150k, coming mainly from microtransactions

 

So from this its pretty obvious that Bioware is "forced" into making simple soloable story content to please the majority of the game population that is actually making the game profitable. This means the PVP and raiding PVE population can basically leave the game as they wont be getting much attention. Of course they will get stuff from time to time as they are the loudest part of the game, but still, nothing fancy.

[grania]

I watched it and I don't really have anything to argue against it. But it was boring. It barely touched on any concerns I have or people I know have about the game.

 

I mean, this is a given:

 

1. Most of the players in the game are SOLO players who want to enjoy story, RP, solo stuff

 

It took a long time for him to come to this conclusion. It's what comes after this conclusion that interests me. The story is the only thing I've ever cared about in swtor and right now it's dragging itself along leaving a trail of blood ever since kotfe. Heck maybe ever since the end of the class stories.

 

(And just out of curiosity, how do all of you pronounce "swtor"? His pronunciation was a new one for me >.> Is that how everyone but me says it?)

[Costello]

I am sure from EA's point of view the game is incredibly profitable.

 

It seems to most people, that there aren't many people left working on the game. Right or Wrong, most consistent views are the lack of content, the lack of class balance, that only 3 op bosses have been released all year, the lack of an expansion or even news about one is down to team size and or funding.

 

But there is a massive focus on Cartel Sales, be they direct sales, traditional jedi robes or reskinned old rewards. We even had one of the few posts asking about player opinion about what previous items we wanted to be resold via the cartel market. Not about companions or story or PvP or Ops but what items we would like back.

 

Now if the game is healthy with minimal content and a focus on CM sales, from a business point of view why change it. EA are a business, they can reduce funding on the game, put out minimal content, shut down the west coast data center and focus on selling cosmetic items and turn a profit, what intensive do they have to offer more chapters or a full raid in a year or return companions all of which costs money.

 

If the game is great and anyone saying its dying is just wrong, then continued focus on the CM market is what is best for the game and they should keep doing it and best of all none of the money made from the market sales need to be invested into the game cause its doing fine.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Costello

[Jesseriah]

 

But there is a massive focus on Cartel Sales, be they direct sales, traditional jedi robes or reskinned old rewards. We even had one of the few posts asking about player opinion about what previous items we wanted to be resold via the cartel market. Not about companions or story or PvP or Ops but what items we would like back.

 

Now if the game is healthy with minimal content and a focus on CM sales, from a business point of view why change it. EA are a business, they can reduce funding on the game, put out minimal content, shut down the west coast data center and focus on selling cosmetic items and turn a profit, what intensive do they have to offer more chapters or a full raid in a year or return companions all of which costs money.

 

 

Thats the sad thing about it. In my eyes, its the best prove that the Developers (or EA, whatever) dont care anymore about the game itself. Cause CM-updates are the only real updates this game gets anymore.

 

I left swtor 1 1/2 years ago and started playing it again recently cause i tought to myself: "Okay, you know whats wrong with the game, but you love the theme. So lets give it a last shot". But if there will be another 2017 this year then im definitely out, as much as i love SW.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Jesseriah

[Mubrak]

Personally I wouldn't mind a year with less content if 5.7 - 5.10 would actually be quality patches, bugfixes and tidying up stuff like the DVL meter looking completely out of place in the new galaxy map, maybe even some quality revisions for CM items (various clipping issues, weird sound-selections like metal clanking for leather jackets)

 

Heck, want to add low-cost content? Return the missing flashpoint messengers, turn-in convos for heroics, Ilum and Belsavis dailies, the pub Black Hole quest and imp Section X intro, and sell it as "improved exploration experience."

Edited January 8, 2018 by Mubrak

[DarthDeekon]

What's killing this game for me, really, is the entire KoT** content (with the exception of star fortresses) I *never* get to play with my wife. The whole reason I play this game is to play with her through the game.

 

Its become a thing where we play all the way up to KoT** content and stop on other alts, playing in different ways with planet quests or even different class stories as we could at least enter those pre-KoT** content.

 

there is almost no communal play in this game for what seems like forever. I dont want just new flash points. I would love new planet missions. New story arcs we can play together.

Edited January 8, 2018 by DarthDeekon