Nerf marauder damage

[Evolixe]

Hey, if you want to scrap the lot and get them to start from scratch. I’d be for that if they changed their methods of testing and balance. But, if you want them to make sweeping changes to all classes, maybe start a thread about that and don’t jump on the nerf Mara band wagon. It’s not “fair” to demand changes to one class and say you support changes in general, but leave out what changes you think should happen for all classes. All I see is a lot of Mara bashing.

 

Just because there is a thread that says "nerf maras" doesn't mean the same people dont want other classes changed as well. This thread is about maras. The next one down is about Juggs and the one below that about Mercs. How dare people stay on topic?!

 

Dont be so fing thick please.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Evolixe

[countdemons]

I nerf am nerf all nerf for nerf nerfing nerf nerfs

[brishae]

This thread continues to be cancer even when grim was educated on what RA actually does, and still doesn’t get it.

 

I like how everyone on the other side of this discussion can all agree every other melee class in this game is trash in pvp but the thought of slightly nerfing mara which was given one of the most overpowered abilities in the game is triggering to people. You all need a reality check. Stop playing regs and go play ranked. Go play a game function where it’s about using all your dcds and killing fast and you’ll find that marauders are one of the best classes in the game. You won’t understand any of this because you all play verse casuals in regs.

 

Don’t come here talking about dcd balance when more than half the people don’t even know how to pop dcds in regs.

 

Never thought I'd agree with Hottie in my life but here it is.

 

Truth of the matter is PvP forums have been dead for 3years. 99% of people posting only do regs and have no idea what they're actually talking about. Imagine thinking Ruthless Aggressor is balanced. :rolleyes:

[memerobot]

Never thought I'd agree with Hottie in my life but here it is.

 

Truth of the matter is PvP forums have been dead for 3years. 99% of people posting only do regs and have no idea what they're actually talking about. Imagine thinking Ruthless Aggressor is balanced. :rolleyes:

 

And here it starts again.

If we go with that logic, put all defenses of marauder in 3 minute CD.

Why not? Marauder unfair and OP, totally top tier class and stuff. No skill necessary to use and yada yada.

Edited January 12, 2018 by memerobot

[brishae]

And here it starts again.

If we go with that logic, put all defenses of marauder in 3 minute CD.

Why not? Marauder unfair and OP, totally top tier class and stuff. No skill necessary to use and yada yada.

 

What part of Ruthless Aggressor is broken do you not understand? No one is complaining about any other defensive ability Marauders have (Least I'm not because I understand how this game works) I've said since the start of 5.0 how broken and insane that utility is. Like my earlier post said. 99% of PvP forums don't know what they're talking about. You are not the 1% honestly just quit posting or go to general discussion

Edited January 12, 2018 by brishae

[TrixxieTriss]

Just because there is a thread that says "nerf maras" doesn't mean the same people dont want other classes changed as well. This thread is about maras. The next one down is about Juggs and the one below that about Mercs. How dare people stay on topic?!

 

Dont be so fing thick please.

 

We have too much nerf overload all ready. We should just get Bioware to merge all the threads and call it “Nerf” these classes

[TrixxieTriss]

What part of Ruthless Aggressor is broken do you not understand? No one is complaining about any other defensive ability Marauders have (Least I'm not because I understand how this game works) I've said since the start of 5.0 how broken and insane that utility is. Like my earlier post said. 99% of PvP forums don't know what they're talking about. You are not the 1% honestly just quit posting or go to general discussion

 

Carthy, I respect both you and Hottie because 99.99% of the time you know exactly what you are talking about. I dont always agree, but I do know you mean the best. I’m not saying RA is perfect. But I dont think it’s broken. But let’s say for arguments sake it is. What would you change about it so it wasn’t broken?

 

I know you’re not asking for other nerfs to DCDs, but there are plenty in this thread that are, as well as nerfing the over all dps and burst. It’s hard for people not to get defensive when a thread starts off asking for dps nerfs across the board, then moves onto RA, then moves onto all DCDs being OP, then comes back to nerfing dps on certain abilities as well as nerfing DCDs and RA at the same time.

 

I get that RA is not 100%, but hardly any ability is, it’s why balance is so rubbish in this game. My concern is that people are asking for it to be nerfed and don’t understand what else it does and how it ties in with Obfuscate, ie viscous throw being used at any health level. We know Bioware “always” break something or worse when they try to nerf. They will either make it a completely useless utility or they will break how obfuscate works. If they were to remove or nerf Force and Tech resistance from RA, you would want them to keep the rest of what RA does for Obfuscate or it Nerfs two abilities and not just a utility. Honestly, I don’t really take RA for the 75% resistance, although it’s nice to have, I’m more interested in viscous throw.

Edited January 13, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[brishae]

75% resistance needs to go. Marauders have too much survivability for how well kitted they are. Saberward, Cloak of Pain, Undying Rage, Camo, Pacify, Predation. On top of that all 3 specs do incredibly well in PvP. If Marauders lost the 75% resistance from Ruthless Aggressor it would hardly even be noticed to them.

 

I play a Powertech the class most people say have the weakest defensives in game next to juggernauts. I don't even want defensive buffs to Powertech because it would make them overpowered. Sure regs can be rough with tons of focus and losing 30% damage reduction while stunned was meh but it honestly balanced the class in 4s since most people play a Powertech in 4s. Being able to stun a PT in 4s and deliver full damage to them is a good thing.

 

No class in this game needs defensive buffs it's the otherway around except maybe juggernauts. They could possibly use a cloak of pain type cd. Marauders, Snipers and Mercs needs to lose some of their defensives.

 

Merc Trauma Regulators should just be removed and kolto rebuffed to 70% and revert the damage nerfs both specs got for no reason zzzz bioware.

 

Marauder 75% resistance gone.

 

Sniper tbh I don't even know. Maybe lower Evasion back to 3 second duration not 5 and lower the damage reduction it gives. Or remove the 20% defence chance they get from being in cover. I'm sure someone else who actually plays a sniper can give more insight.

 

No class in swtor needs to be as defensively strong as Marauder is right now and while they have a 75% resistance on a 45 second cd they will be at that level.

Edited January 13, 2018 by brishae

[TrixxieTriss]

75% resistance needs to go. Marauders have too much survivability for how well kitted they are. Saberward, Cloak of Pain, Undying Rage, Camo, Pacify, Predation. On top of that all 3 specs do incredibly well in PvP. If Marauders lost the 75% resistance from Ruthless Aggressor it would hardly even be noticed to them.

 

So you would just totally remove the resistance from RA, but keep the rest of RA as is?

[brishae]

yup

 

/5char

[TrixxieTriss]

yup

 

/5char

 

I could probably live with that on Fury, especially if they adjusted snipers as well, which is where it’s the most useful to me.

I’m not sure how the other two specs would feel though. I can imagine Anni players would be mightily upset and some Carnage people will be opposed.

Would you consider a compromise and just reduce the affectiveness of resist to 35%.

Another option would be to change how it works with each invidual spec.

 

Obviously I don’t want to send Bioware on a nerf hunt. I don’t like nerfs to any classes because Bioware will always nerf the wrong thing. They rarely listen to what the issues are and nerf something completely unrelated. Often they will wreck a class because they nerf the wrong thing and then when they get around to nerfing the right thing, they never reverse the other nerf that wasn’t needed. I’ve seen them do this too many times and completely ruin a class or make it clunky and unenjoyable.

 

Remember back when they put Force Storm into the rotation for Sorc Lightning and also give it a snare. The biggest problem for 90% of people was the snare, which was fair enough because it wasn’t needed. But instead of nerfing that, they nerfed burst instead. Months later they finally realised what people had been saying and removed the snare, but also reduced FS cast length and removed it from the rotation. They never reversed the burst nerf or the instant proc they nerfed. They basically made Lighting Sorcs one of the worst specs in the game because it then hit like a wet rag and made the rotation clunky.

Good Sorcs still made them work to a certain degree, but the class has never been the same since and people respec’d straight to heals or Madness. Only a select few dedicated Lightning players stayed with the spec.

 

It’s for that reason I’m nearly always against nerfs, especially when there is usually a way to deal with classes through new tactics or strategy.

Edited January 13, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[memerobot]

I could probably live with that on Fury, especially if they adjusted snipers as well, which is where it’s the most useful to me.

I’m not sure how the other two specs would feel though. I can imagine Anni players would be mightily upset and some Carnage people will be opposed.

Would you consider a compromise and just reduce the affectiveness of resist to 35%.

Another option would be to change how it works with each invidual spec.

 

This is the most ideal option there is.

 

Obviously I don’t want to send Bioware on a nerf hunt. I don’t like nerfs to any classes because Bioware will always nerf the wrong thing. They rarely listen to what the issues are and nerf something completely unrelated. Often they will wreck a class because they nerf the wrong thing and then when they get around to nerfing the right thing, they never reverse the other nerf that wasn’t needed. I’ve seen them do this too many times and completely ruin a class or make it clunky and unenjoyable.

 

Remember back when they put Force Storm into the rotation for Sorc Lightning and also give it a snare. The biggest problem for 90% of people was the snare, which was fair enough because it wasn’t needed. But instead of nerfing that, they nerfed burst instead. Months later they finally realised what people had been saying and removed the snare, but also reduced FS cast length and removed it from the rotation. They never reversed the burst nerf or the instant proc they nerfed. They basically made Lighting Sorcs one of the worst specs in the game because it then hit like a wet rag and made the rotation clunky.

Good Sorcs still made them work to a certain degree, but the class has never been the same since and people respec’d straight to heals or Madness. Only a select few dedicated Lightning players stayed with the spec.

 

It’s for that reason I’m nearly always against nerfs, especially when there is usually a way to deal with classes through new tactics or strategy.

 

The only problem that I have is that if they do nerf RA, how much would they reduce the x%? Or if they swapped to some other ability, what would it be? I don't think removing it fully is that good. Fury isn't heavily affected but I do think the other 2 are.

[memerobot]

What part of Ruthless Aggressor is broken do you not understand? No one is complaining about any other defensive ability Marauders have (Least I'm not because I understand how this game works) I've said since the start of 5.0 how broken and insane that utility is. Like my earlier post said. 99% of PvP forums don't know what they're talking about. You are not the 1% honestly just quit posting or go to general discussion

 

Look, I already admitted that is broken but RA is the answer towards abilities that other classes have. That is the issue I have. Fury is actually pretty broken with RA. Annihilation and Carnage? They are, as well, but not to a massive degree, honestly.

 

And sorry, if you want to make game only for the 1%, why do we have the rest of the 99%? Please, don't come with that argument.

[Greezt]

Look, I already admitted that is broken but RA is the answer towards abilities that other classes have. That is the issue I have. Fury is actually pretty broken with RA. Annihilation and Carnage? They are, as well, but not to a massive degree, honestly.

 

And sorry, if you want to make game only for the 1%, why do we have the rest of the 99%? Please, don't come with that argument.

 

First of all, you keep saying that maras need RA because they need something to counter force/tech damage. Let's address that.

 

1. Apart for sins, no class has a hard yellow damage counter. Ops have a purge and snipers have a huge DR (note they're also on the "OP defensives" list) but that's it. Please don't count barrier or reflect (on mercs) as an equivalent, they're nothing alike.
   
2. Maras have plenty of ways to deal with yellow damage already -- saber ward (25% yellow damage absorbed), cloak of pain (-20% damage of all types taken for over 50% uptime potentially), mad dash (no damage from anything for 2s), force camo (-50% damage of all types taken for 4/6 seconds) and of course undying rage (1% damage of all types taken for 4/6 seconds). "They need something"? Lol.
   

 

Secondly, the game should be balanced around the best. If you want to balance around idiots, just allow macros for rotations. I mean, there are way more idiots than competent players, right? Let's just give each class an auto attack, 10 DCDs and make it so you don't even have to face your target to hit them. That should help your 99%!

[RACATW]

First of all, you keep saying that maras need RA because they need something to counter force/tech damage. Let's address that.

 

1. Apart for sins, no class has a hard yellow damage counter. Ops have a purge and snipers have a huge DR (note they're also on the "OP defensives" list) but that's it. Please don't count barrier or reflect (on mercs) as an equivalent, they're nothing alike.
   
2. Maras have plenty of ways to deal with yellow damage already -- saber ward (25% yellow damage absorbed), cloak of pain (-20% damage of all types taken for over 50% uptime potentially), mad dash (no damage from anything for 2s), force camo (-50% damage of all types taken for 4/6 seconds) and of course undying rage (1% damage of all types taken for 4/6 seconds). "They need something"? Lol.
   

 

Secondly, the game should be balanced around the best. If you want to balance around idiots, just allow macros for rotations. I mean, there are way more idiots than competent players, right? Let's just give each class an auto attack, 10 DCDs and make it so you don't even have to face your target to hit them. That should help your 99%!

 

There needs to be more yellow damage DCD's, so yes I also am very happy maras got access to the poor mans shroud, white damage simply sucks compared to yellow because there are so many frequent counters to white damage. And not all specs are equipped to deal with them (what are you going to do for 5 gcds against ops/snipers popping evasion 24/7? as a carnage mara)

 

Reflect on mercs (which is painfully OP due to the fact it reflects WHITE and yellow damage and heals them and lasts longer than juggs...) is in fact comparable to any other yellow dcd. You know you're impervious to yellow damage during that time.

 

The little brother reflect that jugg has (a paltry 3 second yellow only reflect of damage and no heal) is also worth noting if only to say that yes another class has a 'yellow' dcd from my point of view.

Edited January 13, 2018 by RACATW

[supertimtaf]

There needs to be more yellow damage DCD's, so yes I also am very happy maras got access to the poor mans shroud, white damage simply sucks compared to yellow because there are so many frequent counters to white damage. And not all specs are equipped to deal with them (what are you going to do for 5 gcds against ops/snipers popping evasion 24/7? as a carnage mara)

 

Reflect on mercs (which is painfully OP due to the fact it reflects WHITE and yellow damage and heals them and lasts longer than juggs...) is in fact comparable to any other yellow dcd. You know you're impervious to yellow damage during that time.

 

The little brother reflect that jugg has (a paltry 3 second yellow only reflect of damage and no heal) is also worth noting if only to say that yes another class has a 'yellow' dcd from my point of view.

 

Merc's reflect does not work on all Yellow damage. Aoe will still get through, even white damage aoe.

The only part where you'll have an issue is when you play a spec that has damage proc on his aoe (Carnage Mara, every sin spec, Rage Jugg) because the proc (uncontrollable) will trigger the reflect anyway. This should be fixed imo, because it makes some spec/class really inefficient against this specific defensive (which is made in a way that normally allows a counter to it).

Jugg's reflect works for 4 seconds. While it doesn't work for Melee damage, it also works for ranged damage. Still, it's an even worse version of the Merc's reflect, because this one doesn't heal you. I agree on that part.

But Jugg shouldn't have a heal on their reflect anyway. Like Merc shouldn't have a 60% kolto heal. Like snipers shouldn't have a heal on the ballistic shield. Like... I think you understand

[Kirpputori]

(what are you going to do for 5 gcds against ops/snipers popping evasion 24/7? as a carnage mara)

lemme quote about 75% of the forums

 

"switch target"

[Evolixe]

lemme quote about 75% of the forums

 

"switch target"

 

:rolleyes:

[RACATW]

Merc's reflect does not work on all Yellow damage. Aoe will still get through, even white damage aoe.

The only part where you'll have an issue is when you play a spec that has damage proc on his aoe (Carnage Mara, every sin spec, Rage Jugg) because the proc (uncontrollable) will trigger the reflect anyway. This should be fixed imo, because it makes some spec/class really inefficient against this specific defensive (which is made in a way that normally allows a counter to it).

Jugg's reflect works for 4 seconds. While it doesn't work for Melee damage, it also works for ranged damage. Still, it's an even worse version of the Merc's reflect, because this one doesn't heal you. I agree on that part.

But Jugg shouldn't have a heal on their reflect anyway. Like Merc shouldn't have a 60% kolto heal. Like snipers shouldn't have a heal on the ballistic shield. Like... I think you understand

 

It works for 3 seconds, dunno what youre talking about.

AoE getting thru reflect is a given if you read the tooltip (works vs direct dmg).

 

edit:

just noticed you said doesnt work vs melee damage.

It works vs ops. I use it all the time, it also works vs mara db (melee range) so yes it technically works vs melee. So it depends a lot on what the game considers melee maybe, regardless they nerfed reflect from what I've seen vs MM sniper. So who knows what else is going on under the hood right now, especially as I play less nowdays.

 

 

edit2:

 

before you publicly chastise others for being wrong at least make sure your info is right...

Edited January 13, 2018 by RACATW

[RACATW]

lemme quote about 75% of the forums

 

"switch target"

 

Unfortunately they dont switch target on mara with a yellow dcd.

[Evolixe]

maras got access to the poor mans shroud

 

LMFAO

 

Poor mans Shroud? It's literally better.

I'd rather have what you have than what I got.

[RACATW]

LMFAO

 

Poor mans Shroud? It's literally better.

I'd rather have what you have than what I got.

 

We've already discussed this, a cleanse + 200% resistance is better than 75%-however much accuracy somebody has. It's not going to change my PoV

[Evolixe]

We've already discussed this, a cleanse + 200% resistance is better than 75%-however much accuracy somebody has. It's not going to change my PoV

 

It's not a PoV... it's a fact. I would take that "75%" over my cleanse any day of the week.

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

Who is talking about 1v1s?

 

This applies to group combat just as much if not more. Lol.

 

Besides.. you arent soloing good marauders on a jugg.

My marauder has gear, i'll happily let you try.

and wath you will play fury or a discipline whos not faceroll? understand this as you wish but far i recall when you were leveling marauder on game beginning you were playing fury on that time called rage, so unless you actually have experience outside fury evo you dont know nothing about marauder issues you just complain cause you hate simply when discharge and ball lightning fails:)

[Evolixe]

and wath you will play fury or a discipline whos not faceroll? understand this as you wish but far i recall when you were leveling marauder on game beginning you were playing fury on that time called rage, so unless you actually have experience outside fury evo you dont know nothing about marauder issues you just complain cause you hate simply when discharge and ball lightning fails:)

 

English please?

 

Anyways, you admit to fury being stupid? Good. Lets change it.

Afterwards we can worry about the other specs.