Yavin PVP map - great map; ruined by cross faction

[Foambreaker]

Ironic that we are less that 4 weeks out on a server merge and pops on the pub side are already a concern?

[Jadescythe]

While I'm glad that we have another cross-faction map and am finding Yavin to be a lot of fun, the last thing I want is for all maps to be converted into cross-faction. The population isn't low enough yet that we need all PVP maps converted into cross-faction, and not all servers are Harbinger...oops I mean Satele Shan, where there is a severe faction imbalance and one faction nearly always crushes the other.

 

Having a population large enough to start a match quickly isn't the only concern with cross faction, just the first concern. If all warzones were cross faction, you may get to a population size large enough to do skill, role, and/or group size priority matchmaking. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to put a premade on each side instead of 2 premades against 8 solos? Souldn't it be nice to have 2 healers on each team instead of 4 on one side? Wouldn't it be nice to have a higher chance of your match being back and forth instead of a one-sided stomp that everyone leaves and continuously gets backfilled?

[Aeneas_Falco]

Having a population large enough to start a match quickly isn't the only concern with cross faction, just the first concern. If all warzones were cross faction, you may get to a population size large enough to do skill, role, and/or group size priority matchmaking. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to put a premade on each side instead of 2 premades against 8 solos? Souldn't it be nice to have 2 healers on each team instead of 4 on one side? Wouldn't it be nice to have a higher chance of your match being back and forth instead of a one-sided stomp that everyone leaves and continuously gets backfilled?

 

This game would need to have some rudimentary matchmaking first in order to that. Right now there doesn't appear to be any, since even in Imp vs Imp matches you'll get scenarios where one team has two healers and the other has none, and that isn't always due to premades. Cross faction wouldn't make anything more balanced without a matchmaking system.

[Kazz_Devlin]

Yes, I think most QQ is about number 2.

Which just means they like be able to smash the less capable players. I have no sympathy for people who fall into category 2.

I think cross faction is the best thing for this game now because the populations are much lower. It also stops one faction dominating another and stops people from faction jumping just so they can dominate lesser skilled players.

Like when reps are dominating and imps jump to reps so they don’t lose as much and then when Imps start winning again, they jump back to Imps. What this means is we will finally see who the people are who need to be carried because they can’t faction hop to get the better teams

Sadly, unless they make all WZs cross faction, this faction jumping will continue to happen and one faction will keep getting told how bad they are and people will rage quit this new map if too many of that faction are on their team. This happens to often in odessen (besides people leaving because of the map).

IMO, what we need is cross faction in all maps and I would like to see this implemented sooner rather than later. They could at least introduce it to maps like Hutt Ball, which isn’t really RP faction dominated because you never even know if they are the other faction until you engage. It is rotworms and frogdogs and not imp vs rep. They could even introduce it to civil war because it’s a “civil war” of houses.

I feel bad for the RPers who like the faction vs faction, but the health of pvp is more important IMO and that means we need cross faction for “all” WZs, but not necessarily arena. IMO, arena should stay faction vs faction and also have it’s own queue like Ranked does.

 

Edit- I’ve started a discussion the gen section about seperate queues for arena and objective pvp,

 

This would be a minor boost to pvp. You complain about factions dominating weaker players yet ignore the 800 pound gorilla sitting on your chest. Class balance is still a joke evident by the influx of Merc's n Snipers inundating most matches. It's painfully obvious that bioware can't grasp the trinity system by the simple fact if you bestow the ability to do the same DPS or greater plus have effectively 3 lives people with flock to it in droves! Then your left with lopsided queues that are a loss from the start. Don't even go there with the Don't attack when shield is up bs either. On a one on one match that might have relevance and apply. However, in a larger melee with all the visual effects from other classes ability's, plus factor in sever lag, graphic settings of players, camera zoom and lets no forget that You can pop responsive safe guards followed by energy shield which completely conceals that your responsive safe guards are even visible! Now yes if your watching the targets icon buffs/debuffs you might be able to see it, though seeing that in the middle of a fray, that icon bar is in a constant state of flux and rather hard to pin point! So that being said it's pretty much a heal to full 80% of time if not more. No DPS spec should have it if all don't have it! Biofail was counting on the merger to solve all their problems thinking with more peeps in queue it would balance things out a complete lack of foresight. A little common sense tells you that if the vast majority are queing as merc's and snipers before the merger it will only be exacerbated once the merger happens.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Kazz_Devlin

[Jadescythe]

This game would need to have some rudimentary matchmaking first in order to that. Right now there doesn't appear to be any, since even in Imp vs Imp matches you'll get scenarios where one team has two healers and the other has none, and that isn't always due to premades. Cross faction wouldn't make anything more balanced without a matchmaking system.

 

Because you can't do any type of matchmaking in the current system with such a small population with faction restrictions. No point in implementing matchmaking to a system that can't use it. If you move all instanced PvP to be cross faction, you can start looking at matchmaking options.

[Kurj]

I don't mind cross-faction and think it probably makes queue-synching more difficult, although that doesn't seem as necessary post-merge. My experience has been very different from what I've read on the boards. The current meta seems to be just as prone to lop-sided matches as before, but it hasn't been more lop-sided for one faction vs the other, at least not for me. It seems to just depend on who's playing that night.

[Seireeni]

Because you can't do any type of matchmaking in the current system with such a small population with faction restrictions. No point in implementing matchmaking to a system that can't use it. If you move all instanced PvP to be cross faction, you can start looking at matchmaking options.

 

This. No point in going "okay, let's try to get 1-2 healers to both sides" and then not have any matches because one side has 3 healers in queue and another has 0. Only way I can think of to have this type of matchmaking and keep the queue times same (or make them faster) is to make all warzones cross faction, take the first 16 players that queue and assign them in a way that the two teams are as balanced as possible.

[ulrichvonkost]

I loathe cross faction. It completely breaks the central tenant of Republic vs Empire that the game is built on. I preferred the game when you could not have character on both sides on the same server. I also wish there was still a PvP server... RP/PvP actually.

[teclado]

I used to be a Pub main, and pretty die-hard. Then the solo queue Pub experience started to feel like a one man castle assault, having to approach the castle via a quarter mile stretch of open field with a thousand enemy archers just waiting for me to get in range, without any siege equipment or even a ladder. At some point, you just give up. In the end, I pretty much went full darkside and came to despise those Pubs, and the best outlet for my anger was to simply queue imp side and crush them repeatedly. I'm not sure I could ever crush them enough to make up for all my rage. This is why I now hate cross faction. Plus, it seems like the only thing Pubs can do to have a chance is to bring lots of guarded Sage healers, which can make for some pretty stagnant gameplay. Adds to the rage.

 

Furthermore, I pretty much stopped playing any story elements in this game quite some time ago (still have not done kotfe), so any RP notions in my head of playing the "bad guys" are almost entirely gone. It's just team A vs team B now, except I hate team B.

 

In other news, I didn't get the new warzone last night. I only had time for four warzones, but it seems like I should have gotten it. Huttball, Voidstar, Arena, Voidstar. Try again another night, I suppose.

[Chiters]

Don't want, Don't need. Make it go away. Shoo Pubs.

[TrixxieTriss]

I'm amazed so many PvPers care about cross faction. Maybe you should organize your RP events or something.

 

X-faction is objectively better for balance in terms of both skill and comps. If your sensitivity is hurt by having to play alongside people who chose the other side () to the point where you'd rather have imbalanced teams, your priorities are skewed and you should set them straight.

 

Do you mean “.. so many RPers care about cross faction”

Edited December 14, 2017 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

I really hate that ceiling and not having it is an improvement as well as the stairs on the side.

 

I wonder if those stairs will in the long term make it too easy for the defending team to respond and result in a situation where the winner is essentially decided when the nodes are capped.

 

Mid is now essential because it’s easier to get back to it with the stairs. Whoever gets mid first will have an advantage if both teams are even in skill. Civil war is different because of the distance and you can stretch a teams limits to push for the win. Yavin seems to be a smaller map and with the stairs, it makes moving between mid and the side nodes, much faster. It also means people can’t block the respawn as easy to capture the sheep respawners. Now you just go to the side and run up the stairs as it’s the same distance to the node, teams who are too focused on trying to block the main artery to mid are in for some nasty surprises.

[TrixxieTriss]

I used to be a Pub main, and pretty die-hard. Then the solo queue Pub experience started to feel like a one man castle assault, having to approach the castle via a quarter mile stretch of open field with a thousand enemy archers just waiting for me to get in range, without any siege equipment or even a ladder. At some point, you just give up. In the end, I pretty much went full darkside and came to despise those Pubs, and the best outlet for my anger was to simply queue imp side and crush them repeatedly. I'm not sure I could ever crush them enough to make up for all my rage. This is why I now hate cross faction. Plus, it seems like the only thing Pubs can do to have a chance is to bring lots of guarded Sage healers, which can make for some pretty stagnant gameplay. Adds to the rage.

 

Furthermore, I pretty much stopped playing any story elements in this game quite some time ago (still have not done kotfe), so any RP notions in my head of playing the "bad guys" are almost entirely gone. It's just team A vs team B now, except I hate team B.

 

In other news, I didn't get the new warzone last night. I only had time for four warzones, but it seems like I should have gotten it. Huttball, Voidstar, Arena, Voidstar. Try again another night, I suppose.

 

That sounds like a big QQ because you like easy wins and need to be carried. Where’s the fun in that?

Edited December 14, 2017 by TrixxieTriss

[Turn-XGundam]

cross-faction is good because pubs are super under geared, you see 248s less on pub side then on imp at least on SS/SF servers. with this they can finally gear faster and hopefully start winning.

[omaan]

Actually population isn’t good for me outside of US prime time. It’s actually terrible and if we had cross faction in all maps, it might help the pops. Remember, not everyone who plays this game lives in the continental US or western EU.

So maybe before you try to insult someone or question their motives, how about you find out all the facts first. It saves apologising to me later

 

If even after merges population is low for you, and there is no servers for your country then maybe you should find another game? You must change to fit the game not game changes to fit you. Besides reading your threads - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=939634 iam sure that your real motive is related to bad players on your side. No for cross-faction, this would not be star wars anymore

[ALaggyGrunt]

Every arena PvP game worth mentioning these days tries to balance for skill. This one doesn't, so it becomes less and less worth mentioning.

 

The cross-faction teams are neither a problem nor a solution to the problem of skill balance. I've seen a lot of 3-cap farmfest matches on the new map because the teams were just that badly balanced.

[Greezt]

If even after merges population is low for you, and there is no servers for your country then maybe you should find another game? You must change to fit the game not game changes to fit you. Besides reading your threads - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=939634 iam sure that your real motive is related to bad players on your side. No for cross-faction, this would not be star wars anymore

 

Yes, who ever heard of sith coordinating with jedi in star wars (1,

)? If after X-faction you don't enjoy the game then maybe you should find another game? You must change to fit the game not game changes to fit you. Yes for cross-faction, this would not be star wars anymore. Edited December 15, 2017 by Greezt

[TrixxieTriss]

If even after merges population is low for you, and there is no servers for your country then maybe you should find another game? You must change to fit the game not game changes to fit you. Besides reading your threads - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=939634 iam sure that your real motive is related to bad players on your side. No for cross-faction, this would not be star wars anymore

 

Snarky, telling me to find another game. Seems like you have a problem with me for some reason. Care to tell me why?

I also have no alterior motives. I hear tin foil hats are cheap from http://www.conspiraciesRus.tinfoil.

[septru]

I really couldn't care if they made every map cross faction, or if they reskinned every map. But this map in particular I hate.

 

I don't know why it is but this map has horrible disconnect. Please tell me if you're experiencing it too, but for some reason every player in this map dsyncs. Typically dsync would be where a high movement ability such as roll or leap would be used to change elevation but in this map it doesn't matter. I have a sin sitting on me the whole game and I can't target him for 50% of it. I am literally kiting a ghost. Neither can I get any damage off because when I try to use deathfield on a group, it turns out that they weren't grouped where my screen showed them but in fact in a completely opposite location.

 

In addition my ms goes up a minimum of 30 whenever I'm in Yavin graffics.

 

Please tell me if you are having this problem or if I can fix it.

[funnypat]

Map is awesome cross faction is great, and anybody who takes pvp seriously will agree.

 

Those who do not, either need the boost for their self esteem because their life is too sad, or are people who are not pvping on a regular basis anyway.

 

As for the "RP factor" - Yavin is timeline Revan, and as far as I know it's reps + imps vs revanites who are also reps and imps. So dividing this map to imps vs reps would actually mess the story up not repairing it. Stop whining because you don't have the option "join the winning team" anymore.

 

Also consider this, this is a game - most people play both sides. There are no "bad and good" guys just people, if you fail to see that you might want to see a shrink.

[Ibokagain]

Make all warzones cross faction that way the devs can actually program the game to balance out healers, and tanks.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Actually population isn’t good for me outside of US prime time. It’s actually terrible and if we had cross faction in all maps, it might help the pops. Remember, not everyone who plays this game lives in the continental US or western EU.

So maybe before you try to insult someone or question their motives, how about you find out all the facts first. It saves apologising to me later

 

I can certainly see how living on the otherside of the planet could have an effect on time zones! That makes perfect sense. My observations on SF however, even if I sign on at 4 am or 5 am, while the pops aren't quite as fast as at 10 PM, I'm still getting pops rather quickly, 3 minutes maybe 5 sometimes. There is definitely less people on compared to evening hours of course, but still more than enough to keep the pops for PVP going steady.

 

Maybe you should consider making a different character to play on SF so that your time differences won't effect your pops as much, I would have thought that SS would have had good pop times around the clock too, but, I guess that's where you can see the difference in populations, which really kinda makes sense I guess considering how many servers got rolled into SF, even if some were not as populated as others. I don't know what the time zone differentials are off hand honestly, maybe one of the Eurpeon servers might lesson the extreme prime- time differences you find on North American servers?

 

I'm not a fan of cross-faction, I never was, it kills the Star Wars feel for me, but that's a personal preference. I could understand why so many people were advocating it prior to the server merges, but now, I really don't see any need for cross-faction WZs given that pops times are no longer an issue.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

cross-faction is good because pubs are super under geared, you see 248s less on pub side then on imp at least on SS/SF servers. with this they can finally gear faster and hopefully start winning.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't things that are legacy bound able to be sent back and forth between character's in either faction? Also, now that you don't even need to ever step foot into a WZ or an Operation to earn UCs, how could pubs have a harder time gearing than Imps when you can gear without having to ever encounter anyone from another faction?

 

I don't mean to be an *** here, but this line of excuse that's Pubs have a harder time gearing than IMPs has never held water since 5.3. It couldn't possibly be any easier to gear in BIS gear. It was harder to gear in 4.0 than it is now. Even if you give credense to those sorts of reasons, Pubs have been double-premading for a long time now, and while I'm sure it has happened on IMPside on occassion, it's virtually non-exsistant. I have literally never once seen a IMP Double-premade. I've seen people mention it on the forums once or twice, but I've never seen it on my former server and certainly not on SF. That's a very pub dominated style of play. Even wherein you find imps in premades [which you do, single premades], it's not organized. It's usually 2 or 3 people who play together a lot /friends and they aren't hand picking the classes/specs for Uber strategy and very rarely are they using VC like pub premades/double-premades do. [:::waves to RBL and clone guilds:::]If anything, Pubs tend to have the out of gate advantage because most Imp groups are pug groups, generally speaking.

 

Same classes, same specs, same rotations, same opportunity to learn how to play a spec optimally. I can see the argument that if pubs got less pops that made it so they weren't able to earn as many UCs as Imps. The problem I have with that thoery is that all pub side ever needed to get a pop was 8 players because even if there wasn't any other Pub teams to go against they would go against IMP teams who everyone is saying is so plentiful and played more, so why didn't pubside get pops against Imp teams than?

 

I've been full BIS for well over 6 months, there is no way that it should take pubs that long to catch up especially since 5.2/5.3.

[TrixxieTriss]

I can certainly see how living on the otherside of the planet could have an effect on time zones! That makes perfect sense. My observations on SF however, even if I sign on at 4 am or 5 am, while the pops aren't quite as fast as at 10 PM, I'm still getting pops rather quickly, 3 minutes maybe 5 sometimes. There is definitely less people on compared to evening hours of course, but still more than enough to keep the pops for PVP going steady.

 

Maybe you should consider making a different character to play on SF so that your time differences won't effect your pops as much, I would have thought that SS would have had good pop times around the clock too, but, I guess that's where you can see the difference in populations, which really kinda makes sense I guess considering how many servers got rolled into SF, even if some were not as populated as others. I don't know what the time zone differentials are off hand honestly, maybe one of the Eurpeon servers might lesson the extreme prime- time differences you find on North American servers?

 

I'm not a fan of cross-faction, I never was, it kills the Star Wars feel for me, but that's a personal preference. I could understand why so many people were advocating it prior to the server merges, but now, I really don't see any need for cross-faction WZs given that pops times are no longer an issue.

 

I’m already playing lvl 70 on SF and lvling 6 Alts as well.

 

I can’t play on EU servers, it’s another 130ms higher than SS or SF.

 

The last few days there have been pretty good with pops for Yavin at all hours. I think it’s because of the movie release, all the fans are jacked up and want some SW action.

But if you wait for a map that isn’t crossfaction, the pops slow right down. I actually think crossfaction is what’s keeping the pops fast for rep characters.

 

You can hardly tell the difference as a mixed team. The other guys are red, your guys are green and the only thing that alludes to it not being 100% rep v imp is the prematch announcement of saying the “enemy”

Honestly, I can’t tell the difference. I actually think it’s improving game play because people are being thrown together with everyone.

 

Maybe if the whole of pvp was story based and RP, it wouldn’t make sense to have cross faction. But it’s not, the majority of pvpers just want to fight a human opponent, it’s one of the main reasons RPvP servers died first.

These days we have every colour light sabre and people fighting in every type of colour and outfit (which I like). The problem with that is, how do you know who is Sith or Jedi when you are fighting another Sabre wielding class.

Basically you can’t if you were just looking visually. So that throws most Star Wars RP out the window right there.

 

Cross faction is good IMO. It is the best thing that has happened to pvp in this game for 4 years. They need to impliment it in all other objective based WZs. Then they could actually put some basic match making in place that doesn’t put 4 healers on one team and none on the other,

Edited December 17, 2017 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't things that are legacy bound able to be sent back and forth between character's in either faction? Also, now that you don't even need to ever step foot into a WZ or an Operation to earn UCs, how could pubs have a harder time gearing than Imps when you can gear without having to ever encounter anyone from another faction?

 

I don't mean to be an *** here, but this line of excuse that's Pubs have a harder time gearing than IMPs has never held water since 5.3. It couldn't possibly be any easier to gear in BIS gear. It was harder to gear in 4.0 than it is now. Even if you give credense to those sorts of reasons, Pubs have been double-premading for a long time now, and while I'm sure it has happened on IMPside on occassion, it's virtually non-exsistant. I have literally never once seen a IMP Double-premade. I've seen people mention it on the forums once or twice, but I've never seen it on my former server and certainly not on SF. That's a very pub dominated style of play. Even wherein you find imps in premades [which you do, single premades], it's not organized. It's usually 2 or 3 people who play together a lot /friends and they aren't hand picking the classes/specs for Uber strategy and very rarely are they using VC like pub premades/double-premades do. [:::waves to RBL and clone guilds:::]If anything, Pubs tend to have the out of gate advantage because most Imp groups are pug groups, generally speaking.

 

Same classes, same specs, same rotations, same opportunity to learn how to play a spec optimally. I can see the argument that if pubs got less pops that made it so they weren't able to earn as many UCs as Imps. The problem I have with that thoery is that all pub side ever needed to get a pop was 8 players because even if there wasn't any other Pub teams to go against they would go against IMP teams who everyone is saying is so plentiful and played more, so why didn't pubside get pops against Imp teams than?

 

I've been full BIS for well over 6 months, there is no way that it should take pubs that long to catch up especially since 5.2/5.3.

 

I also think that person’s argument is rubbish for many reasons. But here is the one that really stands out,

 

People have started to play their rep toons again in pvp because they “dont” have to play imp toons anymore to be able to get pops or not have one sided matches.

It’s why there are more undergeared reps about at the moment because they are gearing them with accelerated CXP. You don’t need to move things within legacies when you have an event on. Yesterday I took my new Sent from CXP 1 to CXP 50 in about 5 hours of pvp. I expect to have her to 200 in a few more days and 300 before the end of next week.

 

Now you can just play your preferred character and it doesn’t mattter if it’s imp or rep. This is one of the major benefits to crossfaction. You don’t have to worry about people faction jumping when they need to be carried and then creating a massive skill imbalance in matches.

When everyone is in the same mixing pot, those imbalances disappear and people who need to be carried, can’t hide. It also seems to have reduced a lot of trolling (just my observation) and I hope it stays like that.