Biochem > all other crewkills

[Sky_walkerPL]

Armormech/Armstech/Synthweaving get various armor/barrels/mods that are equal in quality to the daily commendation or champion/columi gear..

 

At level 50 they aren't equal. They are worse than them.

 

You can make reusable items for each crafting profession, but only a small subset of min/maxers will bother taking those crew skills for these special reusable items. If you want to make the skills attractive to a wider playerbase, crafted items need to be better than anything you can find on vendors or from the most common BoE drops.

This, this this.

 

I'm surprised that Bioware didn't calculated how much effort it takes to craft good purple quality lvl50 gear, and how little effort it takes to go for a raid with your guild or play few matches in PvP to get better gear than whatever you can craft.

It's seriously disappointing approach from BioWare. I really hope they'll fix it, and they'll fix it SOON!

Edited December 29, 2011 by Sky_walkerPL

[Ayern]

That is not how MMO's work. Developers never buff the least useful stuff, they always nerf the most useful stuff. That is how they achieve balance.

 

 

Sadly this seems to be taken straight out of the "how to manage your MMO to failure" hand book. I should not say failure, this game is obviously not that, but they have some systems that are flawed beyond what they should be considering the enormous amount of testing that went in to this game.

 

The more I play this game, the more I want to cancel my subscription. Its essentially one long linear grind fest, that gives all the appearances of being poorly administered by people that think they are doing their clients a favor by making their product.

[Ayern]

100% agree here. I actually wanted to go Biochem before, but with reusable items being crafted I realised there was no money to get in Biochem. Mod crafting is where the money is in the long run I believe. But even those get beaten by dropped mods after a while.

 

Reusable medpacks and stims need to be removed to create an actual market in them on the GTN.

 

Also, all other professions need something to sell to others besides equal-par gear to what they can get from playing the game besides crafting.

 

Armstech, synthweaving and armortech should get something they can sell that adds 1 mod slot to an item. This way, when someone gets new gear, they need to go to those crafters to get the extra slots.

Cybertech and Artifice should get mods that are better than whatever can drop in-game. But the mats need to be rare and expensive. Either that, or to add in with the item creation crew skills change, they should get the mods that fill the slot created by those crew skills which are impossible to fill via non-crafting content.

 

Problem is.. Bioware considered PVP, PVE and Crafting 3 different things when it comes to getting gear. While they should compliment each other.

 

Well put, very well put. Crafting is broken...and with all that test time.

[Chasted]

And then you have to balance and keep a level playing field for those who do not wish to craft anything at all; just produce materials.

[_Izmir_]

Hey, i dont get it.

Reusable items from biochem available only for the crafter, you cant sell reusable items to any Joe. SO whats the problem? you can sell your stuff and everyone will need it, right?

[Skuldar]

That is not how MMO's work. Developers never buff the least useful stuff, they always nerf the most useful stuff. That is how they achieve balance.

 

Yes, and I'm getting sick of that. I've seen that same stupid tactic over and over in MMO after MMO. I'm about to give up on MMOs entirely because of it. Why can't games make you feel more powerful over time without feeling the need to keep whacking you down every few months? I don't get that punishment in single player games, and I see no need for it to happen in multiplayer games yet it does every time. I was hoping this one might be an exception and find a better logic, but alas no.

[iTempest]

My biggest daily expense ingame is on med packs and stims... should i cry hard untill this gets nerf'd ?

[RaZoor]

Biochem gets a personal reusable medpac that heals for 5050-6175 with a heal for 2245 over 15seconds, a reusable stim that lasts 2hrs and persists through death, and reusable adrenals for various stats.

 

Cybertech gets reusable grenades.

 

Artifice gets relics with no base stats.

 

Armormech/Armstech/Synthweaving get various armor/barrels/mods that are equal in quality to the daily commendation or champion/columi gear.

 

So unless they add bonuses to other crewskills or patterns that haven't been found give personal bonuses, everyone whose a min/maxer will end up biochem. Hardly seems balanced.

 

AH yes, another uninformed post. the reusable medpack takes a raid crafting drop to craft. As such the other crafting professions get the same raid crafting drops and can craft their raid quality loot, while the Biochemists have to actually wait for a drop they can wear. Seems perfectly balanced to me.

[kikleon]

AH yes, another uninformed post. the reusable medpack takes a raid crafting drop to craft. As such the other crafting professions get the same raid crafting drops and can craft their raid quality loot, while the Biochemists have to actually wait for a drop they can wear. Seems perfectly balanced to me.

 

http://www.torhead.com/item/6p28aGG#component-for;sort:crewskill,difficulty

 

Those gear are BoP and are thus limited to the crafters. If anything perhaps it is 'too easy' to get 'comparable' gear, perhaps from the PvP vendors but for OPs the crafting may be an easier way to gear up.

[RaZoor]

http://www.torhead.com/item/6p28aGG#component-for;sort:crewskill,difficulty

 

Those gear are BoP and are thus limited to the crafters. If anything perhaps it is 'too easy' to get 'comparable' gear, perhaps from the PvP vendors but for OPs the crafting may be an easier way to gear up.

 

The purple med packs and stims he is speaking of are BOP too. And no, its not. There is no gear "comparable" to t3 raid gear, check the vendors yourself in the FLEET area

Edited December 29, 2011 by RaZoor

[Wesu]

It's not fair that Biochem gets the best BoP crafts. Nerf it plz Bioware.

[Nessirin]

Biochem gets a personal reusable medpac that heals for 5050-6175 with a heal for 2245 over 15seconds, a reusable stim that lasts 2hrs and persists through death, and reusable adrenals for various stats.

 

Cybertech gets reusable grenades.

 

Artifice gets relics with no base stats.

 

Armormech/Armstech/Synthweaving get various armor/barrels/mods that are equal in quality to the daily commendation or champion/columi gear.

 

So unless they add bonuses to other crewskills or patterns that haven't been found give personal bonuses, everyone whose a min/maxer will end up biochem. Hardly seems balanced.

 

********. The only thing that saves is money for the biochemist. I'm a biochem. The blue quality TRADEABLE consumables persist through death (stims and adrenals) and medpacs heal the same amount (hell,usually blue medpacks heal for MORE than the purple ones, because they're not reusable).

 

So yeah, while it saves money, there is no min/max advantage stat-wise on biochem.

[Deslan]

It's not fair that Biochem gets the best BoP crafts. Nerf it plz Bioware.

 

There will always be one craft that is "best" for some people, depending on your play style.

 

I've leveled to 30 and barely used a medpack so far. I was leveling slicing, but it gives the same missions over and over so I have 3-4 copies of the same mission, rather fix that instead. I dropped slicing because of the annoying duplicate missions (not because they nerfed the income).

[RaZoor]

Two days Ago I was a Biochemist Slicer with dreams of taking over the world!!

[smcn]

How could they have POSSIBLY believed that the crafting skills were balanced in their current state?

 

They simply didn't realize that the BoP/reusable Alchemy recipes in WoW are actually less powerful than their BoE counterparts. Don't worry, this will be remedied in the future, and everyone who respecced Biochem for such an obviously ridiculous and unintended advantage will be absolutely SHOCKED!

[RaZoor]

Are you clowns really going to whine to get Biochem nerfed too.. jesus christ S T F U and go play the game to 50 first. You have no idea W T F your talking about, you cannot possibly ascertain the balances or imbalances in the game as I am positive NONE of you have even got to endgame. put down the Ritalin take a DEEP breath and keep saying "It will be ok." I promise you will feel better, however if that doesnt work, go to your local yellow pages and look up P for Psychologist, they are expecting you....

 

BIOWARE I KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO READ THIS BECAUSE I AM GOING TO GET WARNED FOR SAYING THAT^^^^. IF YOU NERF BIOCHEM BECAUSE OF THESE TOOLS WHINING YOU ARE DESTINED TO ENTER THE SAME SAD GRAVE AS SWG AND I WILL BE FIRST TO START DIGGING IT!

[Kryptorchid]

Are you clowns really going to whine to get Biochem nerfed too.. jesus christ S T F U and go play the game to 50 first. You have no idea W T F your talking about, you cannot possibly ascertain the balances or imbalances in the game as I am positive NONE of you have even got to endgame. put down the Ritalin take a DEEP breath and keep saying "It will be ok." I promise you will feel better, however if that doesnt work, go to your local yellow pages and look up P for Psychologist, they are expecting you....

 

BIOWARE I KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO READ THIS BECAUSE I AM GOING TO GET WARNED FOR SAYING THAT^^^^. IF YOU NERF BIOCHEM BECAUSE OF THESE TOOLS WHINING YOU ARE DESTINED TO ENTER THE SAME SAD GRAVE AS SWG AND I WILL BE FIRST TO START DIGGING IT!

 

I guess you didn't understand the responses calling for Biochem nerfs were "tongue-in-cheek." No one wants to nerf a profession. As it stands, Biochem is the "best" from a supply/demand standpoint because they are the only craft that makes the best available stims/medpacks/adrenals. All the other professions craft items that are sometimes marginally better, most of the time worse, than easily obtainable vendor gear. <---- That is where the "buffing" of other professions needs to take place first.

[RaZoor]

No I understand perfectly, hence my post about taking over the world.

 

However some of these posts are not drowned in sarcasm, and I have my doubts about everyone's lucidity.

[RaZoor]

I guess you didn't understand the responses calling for Biochem nerfs were "tongue-in-cheek." No one wants to nerf a profession. As it stands, Biochem is the "best" from a supply/demand standpoint because they are the only craft that makes the best available stims/medpacks/adrenals. All the other professions craft items that are sometimes marginally better, most of the time worse, than easily obtainable vendor gear. <---- That is where the "buffing" of other professions needs to take place first.

 

What you should understand is that your opinion is irrelevent and you are capable of choosing any profession you'd like. Expecting one thing to be changed because of another when you could have either is ASSENINE.

[Axemaxor]

Reusable biochem stuff should not be reusable. It should last as long as its blue-quality analog, but cost more raw materials to make. Because it is purple.

 

Also, it should require biochem trained to use. We biochemists dont want simple mortals run around happily using our purple shinies.

 

p.s. Slicing is still overpowered, but biochem usefullness IS JUST OUT OF HAND.

[RaZoor]

Also, it should require biochem trained to use. .

 

It does require Biochem trained to use, just only need level 1.

 

Hence the big secret about how you could make the purple grenades and then the purple stims and just jump back and forth between the skills whenever you wanted to use one or the other.

 

Regardless, your post is unclear it IS REQUIRED to be trained in order to use the Rakata Purples

[Kryptorchid]

Reusable biochem stuff should not be reusable. It should last as long as its blue-quality analog, but cost more raw materials to make. Because it is purple.

 

Also, it should require biochem trained to use. We biochemists dont want simple mortals run around happily using our purple shinies.

 

p.s. Slicing is still overpowered, but biochem usefullness IS JUST OUT OF HAND.

 

As a Biochemist, I agree that Biochem stuff should not be reusable, but I disagree that it should require the biochem skill to use them. I want to make money crafting. The only way I can do that is if people can use my items and if they want to use them (considering Biochems make the best-in-game stims/medpacks/adrenals this is a given).

 

In lieu of having reusable Biochem items, I would like to see Biochemist getting extra charges on their items (which I think would be a good crit bonus on crafted goods too).

 

1 Biochem = 10% more charges on items you use

100 Biochem = 20% more charges

200 Biochem = 30% more charges

300 Biochem = 40% more charges

400 Biochem = 50% more charges

Edited December 29, 2011 by Kryptorchid

[Parrothead]

I'm sick of MMO crafting. Its either easy and useless, difficult and useless (this game), or difficult and mandatory (EVE).

 

Why cant it be like Skyrim? Easy and extremely useful? No, I guess that gives players too much power right?

 

Biochem is the only useful crew skill, period.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Parrothead

[Axemaxor]

Reusable biochem stuff should not be reusable. It should last as long as its blue-quality analog, but cost more raw materials to make. Because it is purple.

 

Also, it should require biochem trained to use. We biochemists dont want simple mortals run around happily using our purple shinies.

 

p.s. Slicing is still overpowered, but biochem usefullness IS JUST OUT OF HAND.

 

Ok, to be clear - this previous post of mine is full of troll.

 

I have biochem trained and im happy with it. As it is. Also i have 2 more chars that have armormech and armstech trained to 200ish area. Both very useful providing blues for me and my wife playing. She also has 3 chars doing Jedi-tradeskilling. And slicing in its current form. Guess what, very useful.

 

With all that heap of time and money-sinking we geared ourselves to breeze through 4 first flashpoints wiping only once due to having hard time controlling our companions on some tricky boss.

 

 

All of tradeskills are fine as long as you invest in all of them. But instead people prefer to whine "X is better than Y OMG NERF"

[Tilure]

I'm sick of MMO crafting. Its either easy and useless, difficult and useless (this game), or difficult and mandatory (EVE).

 

Why cant it be like Skyrim? Easy and extremely useful? No, I guess that gives players too much power right?

 

Biochem is the only useful crew skill, period.

 

It isn't about player empowerment. Its about the basica differences in the MMO type.

 

EvE is a sandbox. Thus, practically everything of value in the game is manufactured by the players because that is the only way to provide a universe in which to build my sand castle such that it is meaningful.

 

swtor is a theme park. If the crafters could craft and sell the best gear in the game, then there would be no meaningful reward to riding the rides.

 

square peg meet round hole.

 

The best solution is non-mandatory consumables (which inevitable become mandatory for hard core players )

 

swtor has actually positioned themselves better then any previous mmo for creating non-mandatory consumables from each crafter class because they have created time based missions. This means they can more accurately control the supply and cost of materials.

 

In this way they can more easily control the price.

 

Unfortunately, they have also made mistakes. There is no reason to make this random or give on crit. This type of systems makes pricing unpredictable and in the end makes an economy even more difficult to manage. This , imo, is the failing in all theme park mmo crafting systems.

 

In a real world economy limitations on supply are enforced by numerous and incalculable factors. Equating this to a random # roll, imo is just making the economic control of the development team more difficult.

 

Instead they should simple make access to resources fixed based on fixed time and costs.

 

You should always have a mission that allows you to gather all level of materials for all types of materials in your gathering and mission (ie what you gather should also NOT be random, the idea that I can't choose what to gather adds more random that is completely unnecessary and ultimately pointless in the long run). Missions should not ever fail.

 

for example

white materials of rank 1 would take 2 mins to gather a stack of 10 and cost 95 credits. The affection rate and base skill in the field may be used to effect the mission time if that is desired, though due to the apparent random choice of the + abilities of the companions that seems silly. Crits can still be used to modify the # of resources return.

 

green materials of rank 1 would take 4 mins to gather a stack of 5 and cost 150 credits.

blue materials of rank 1 would take 8 mins to gather a stack of 4 and cost 300 credits.

purple materials of rank 1 would take 16 mins to gather a stack of 2 and cost 450 credts.

 

I just made the above numbers up, and they could be changed, it doesn't really matter. What matters is no random.

 

The vendor sale value of each of these items should then be fixed at a price that creates a minor loss to the gatherer, creating a credit sink if the crafter doesn't do any research on what he can sell for a profit on the gtn.

 

Demand is driven by the players , but is created by the developers when they decide how desirable the item will be. For an item to be desirable it should give a noticeable advantage. Provided that there is no random the cost to produce can be easily calculated. At which point the crafters will begin selling at a price that is higher then the cost to produce and provides to them an acceptable margin for the investment of time. This number is different for everyone.

 

Eventually an equilibrium in supply and demand will be reached because sellers who are unwilling to lower their prices to sell will drop out of the sales race. The price is likely to fluctuate continually within a small range as new suppliers get into the market and old suppliers drop out.

 

 

Economics is complex enough, there is no reason to introduce randomness into that equation. Uniform simplicity should be the theme park solution with desirable consumables and better then random/commendation but worse then flashpoint/raid/pvp gear.

 

simple.