Legacy Credits: This Isn't the Functionality You're Looking For

[Seelvir]

Um ... was I alone in thinking that Legacy Credits would be a straightfoward thing? Like, credits exactly as they were before, but now all credits from all characters available at all times on all characters. Like, the same functionality as Command Tokens. Not the same functionality as the Guild Bank credits.

 

So, here's the big improvement. Now, instead of losing 5 credits to the mailbox when you move credits between characters, you can move credits between characters via Legacy Bank for FREE. That's it. Unless I'm missing something?

[ttyork]

Pretty sure you were alone in that interpretation.

[ShadowGovernator]

Another good idea very poorly implemented by BW.

[Andryah]

Um ... was I alone in thinking that Legacy Credits would be a straightfoward thing? Like, credits exactly as they were before, but now all credits from all characters available at all times on all characters. Like, the same functionality as Command Tokens. Not the same functionality as the Guild Bank credits.

 

So, here's the big improvement. Now, instead of losing 5 credits to the mailbox when you move credits between characters, you can move credits between characters via Legacy Bank for FREE. That's it. Unless I'm missing something?

I did not read or interpret it that way at all. Why? Because they used terms like "wallet" and indicated that players would control credits in and out of the new feature and that it would work essentially the way guild banks do.

 

I think you are a victim of your own desires here... wanting what you want and reading what they said with a bias.

 

The big improvement is actually a much higher credit limit on the new feature. I don't recall where they stated it... but they made the legacy credit limit something like around 100B. Not that many players need that much space.. but a good number of veterans have been bumping up against the 4.29B limit for individual characters for some time now.... and so it is nice for alleviating having to spread credits around your characters for no other reason then the charcter credit cap.

 

The only thing they need to add to the game is a portable Legacy Cargo that you can pop anywhere you need to grab credits... OR... make is so merchants give you the option to pull from character-or-legacy. IF you want that head to the suggestion forum and put in a coherent and detailed suggestion/request.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Andryah

[TUXs]

The only thing they need to add to the game is a portable Legacy Cargo that you can pop anywhere you need to grab credits...

There is one.

[Seelvir]

I think you are a victim of your own desires here... wanting what you want and reading what they said with a bias.

 

Okay, I'll grant that. But, wouldn't what I'm saying be infinitely better than what they implemented? If the other BIG thing aside from saving 5 credits on mail is a new limit of 100b ... then ... again ... wouldn't that be better if it worked like I wanted it to, just up the limit to 100b?

 

I'm sure someone could dazzle me with the techno-babble of why what I'm suggestion would be "hard to do."

 

Just saying that it would be superior, in literally every way, to what was introduced today.

 

Help me see how what we have is better than what my bias assumed it was going to be?

[xordevoreaux]

Okay, I'll grant that. But, wouldn't what I'm saying be infinitely better than what they implemented? If the other BIG thing aside from saving 5 credits on mail is a new limit of 100b ... then ... again ... wouldn't that be better if it worked like I wanted it to, just up the limit to 100b?

 

I'm sure someone could dazzle me with the techno-babble of why what I'm suggestion would be "hard to do."

 

Just saying that it would be superior, in literally every way, to what was introduced today.

 

Help me see how what we have is better than what my bias assumed it was going to be?

 

Were legacy credits to function the way you described, as a general pool of credits for all toons like a permanent, immediately accessible central bank, then whenever you transferred a toon, then either all the credits would go from the original server with that toon -- or -- you would not be able to establish how many credits you wanted to move with that toon because none ever would, they'd stay behind with the original legacy.

 

With the way it's been implemented, you can choose to either pool the credits together or leave them scattered around on your toons, which easily facilitates specifying exactly how much to transfer with a given toon to another server.

Edited November 28, 2017 by xordevoreaux

[Seelvir]

What happens to Command Tokens when you transfer a character? There is already a system in place that manages this. Utilize that with my biased idea of this Legacy Credits functionality. Or add a new option to the transfer system that allows you to select via that interface how many credits to transfer. Surely that singular use-case, transfers, shouldn't necessitate taking a great idea (mine) and turning it into this other idea (the one we got).

 

Next?

Edited November 28, 2017 by Seelvir

[BlueWanderer]

Don't spend those 5 credits all in one place!

[xordevoreaux]

What happens to Command Tokens when you transfer a character? There is already a system in place that manages this. Utilize that with my biased idea of this Legacy Credits functionality. Or add a new option to the transfer system that allows you to select via that interface how many credits to transfer. Surely that singular use-case, transfers, shouldn't necessitate taking a great idea (mine) and turning it into this other idea (the one we got).

 

Next?

 

My suggestion was to have a per-use on the vendor, like the Use Guild Funds function, where you can choose, at the time you're spending credits, to use what's in a character's personal wallet or Use Legacy Funds to pull from the legacy bank. So I prefer my suggestion over your suggestion, unsurprisingly.

 

Next?

Edited November 28, 2017 by xordevoreaux

[TUXs]

My suggestion was to have a per-use on the vendor, like the Use Guild Funds function, where you can choose, at the time you're spending credits, to use what's in a character's personal wallet or Use Legacy Funds to pull from the legacy bank. So I prefer my suggestion over your suggestion, unsurprisingly.

 

Next?

This is a good suggestion/solution!

[Seelvir]

But why bother with that? Ultimately, your characters are spending credits from your legacy one way or the other. Separating a stack of credits for use on your character from a stack you use through your legacy is a function that has no functional value whatsoever. What's a situation where that division of credits is useful? If it's only character transfers, then see my post above.

[xordevoreaux]

But why bother with that? Ultimately, your characters are spending credits from your legacy one way or the other. Separating a stack of credits for use on your character from a stack you use through your legacy is a function that has no functional value whatsoever. What's a situation where that division of credits is useful? If it's only character transfers, then see my post above.

 

Sometimes I like to start out new toons without giving them any "help" by taking any gear/supplies/what have you out my legacy bank. Just work from scratch and level the toon up from the boot straps. How, with your method, would I only spend only the credits I earned on that toon if they wind up in a general server-wide fund? Pencil and paper and green eye shades to keep a separate running tally?

 

No thanks. I prefer the choice of having either a general pool or an individual wallet, not being forced to use a pool 100% of the time.

Edited November 28, 2017 by xordevoreaux

[Seelvir]

lol

 

If that's the only use-case you can conceive where your idea is better than mine, this idiosyncratic desire to pseudo-start-from-scratch, then you would simply lose that ability with my idea, and that would be a situation where the lesser gives way to the greater. Simply. When you make changes, somethings are lost, and if what's lost has significantly less value than what's gained, then so be it.

 

Also ... since you can't turn off your global legacy perks ... you never "start from scratch with your bootstraps." Your extremely limited and contrived situation is already one that can never exist.

 

So ultimately, nothing is lost when your idea gives way to mine.

[xordevoreaux]

lol

 

If that's the only use-case you can conceive where your idea is better than mine, this idiosyncratic desire to pseudo-start-from-scratch, then you would simply lose that ability with my idea, and that would be a situation where the lesser gives way to the greater. Simply. When you make changes, somethings are lost, and if what's lost has significantly less value than what's gained, then so be it.

 

Also ... since you can't turn off your global legacy perks ... you never "start from scratch with your bootstraps." Your extremely limited and contrived situation is already one that can never exist.

 

So ultimately, nothing is lost when your idea gives way to mine.

 

Is what I suggest any more of an idiosyncratic desire than anything any role-player wants? You want to go down that road?

 

There's no qualitative judgment you can put on how another player wishes to play his or her toons that doesn't come across like you're trying to stuff YOUR WAY OF PLAYING down someone's windpipe.

[Andryah]

Is what I suggest any more of an idiosyncratic desire than anything any role-player wants? You want to go down that road?

 

There's no qualitative judgment you can put on how another player wishes to play his or her toons that doesn't come across like you're trying to stuff YOUR WAY OF PLAYING down someone's windpipe.

 

^^ Very much agree.

 

I'm sure the way they set this up was somewhat deliberate..... to avoid any possibility of a character transfer created exploit with a brand new feature added to the game. I'm sure the OP will try to tell me that's silly... but we have seen unintended exploits along these lines before with fairly big ramifications to the player economy... so sorry OP.. not buying it. Better to not let an exploit happen in the first place, rather then have to try to find and claw back every credit resulting from it (which is probably impossible). And sometimes the best way to approach this is to keep implementation simple and basic, and make changes and additions later on.

 

Can you imagine if there was some exploit uncovered by the ever clever player base and billions of duplicate credits across thousands of accounts suddenly happened? We don't need another dupe exploit.... and if this is the price we pay for that safeguard.. I'm fine with it.

 

Your suggestion to put a tab on every vendor to allow you to pay directly from Legacy is good, and I encourage you to put it in the suggestion forum. Though note that currently the guild bank button on vendors is only for repair fees... right? So I'm sure there is real precedent here.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Andryah

[xordevoreaux]

^^ Very much agree.

 

I'm sure the way they set this up was somewhat deliberate..... to avoid any possibility of a character transfer created exploit with a brand new feature added to the game. I'm sure the OP will try to tell me that's silly... but we have seen unintended exploits along these lines before with fairly big ramifications to the player economy... so sorry OP.. not buying it. Better to not let an exploit happen in the first place, rather then have to try to find and claw back every credit resulting from it (which is probably impossible).

 

Can you imagine if there was some exploit uncovered by the every clever player base and billions of duplicate credits across thousands of accounts suddenly happened? We don't need another dupe exploit.... and if this is the price we pay for that safeguard.. I'm fine with it.

 

Your suggestion to put a tab on every vendor to allow you to pay directly from Legacy is good, and I encourage you to put it in the suggestion forum. Though note that currently the guild bank button on vendors is only for repair fees... right? So I'm sure there is real precedent here.

 

I was thinking of the checkbox for the option to use legacy funds would reside beside or under the first one at the bottom of the vendor window that's currently there for guild fund usage.

[Seelvir]

Is what I suggest any more of an idiosyncratic desire than anything any role-player wants? You want to go down that road?

 

There's no qualitative judgment you can put on how another player wishes to play his or her toons that doesn't come across like you're trying to stuff YOUR WAY OF PLAYING down someone's windpipe.

 

False equivalency and overwrought rage. Nothing of value here. Moving on.

 

I'm sure the way they set this up was to avoid any possibility of a character transfer created exploit. I'm sure the OP will try to tell me that's silly...

 

Indeed I shall. If the transfer system is robust enough to include a new option like this:

 

- You have XYZ Credits available to transfer. Please input amount to transfer here. [input field]

 

Then problem solved.

 

Your idea of replacing an unwieldy system (move credits through mail) with another unwieldy system (the one added today) instead of putting in place a system that solves all problems and benefits the entire community JUST to play defense against an exploit is ... not at all how anything in design is done, if it is done well. If you don't want exploits, don't build a buggy system. Dupe exploits could happen with the system they implemented today if it was not built proficiently.

[xordevoreaux]

this idiosyncratic desire to pseudo-start-from-scratch

is indeed roleplaying. There is no false equivocation. Your criticism of calling it idiosyncratic directly belittles how another player desires to play in a bid he conforms to your standard. Anyone should be outraged by that.

[GoldenHornet]

I'm sure the way they set this up was somewhat deliberate..... to avoid any possibility of a character transfer created exploit with a brand new feature added to the game. I'm sure the OP will try to tell me that's silly... but we have seen unintended exploits along these lines before with fairly big ramifications to the player economy... so sorry OP.. not buying it. Better to not let an exploit happen in the first place, rather then have to try to find and claw back every credit resulting from it (which is probably impossible). And sometimes the best way to approach this is to keep implementation simple and basic, and make changes and additions later on.

 

Can you imagine if there was some exploit uncovered by the ever clever player base and billions of duplicate credits across thousands of accounts suddenly happened? We don't need another dupe exploit.... and if this is the price we pay for that safeguard.. I'm fine with it.

 

Your suggestion to put a tab on every vendor to allow you to pay directly from Legacy is good, and I encourage you to put it in the suggestion forum. Though note that currently the guild bank button on vendors is only for repair fees... right? So I'm sure there is real precedent here.

 

You're really saying we should take poor functionality because they might **** it up? Not a very positive approach.

 

I'm thoroughly disappointed I can't spend my credits from the consolidated pool, makes it close to useless. As the OP notes, it's barely a step above the existing mailing credits to alts.

[Verain]

If you implemented legacy credits, you'd need some item that costs a one hundred thousand credits and vendors for an identical amount, for when you transfer servers. Legacy currencies and contents aren't transferred when you transfer.

[Mubrak]

I'm sure someone could dazzle me with the techno-babble of why what I'm suggestion would be "hard to do."

 

A 32 bit binary number simply can't be higher than 2^32-1 = 4,294,967,295 similar to how a 3-digit decimal number can't be higher than 10^3-1 = 999. If you add 1 you're suddenly down to 0 because the leading "1" is lost.

 

There are ways around that that have their own problems (carry/borrow systems, or different variable types). It basically comes down to rewriting every instance of code where the credits are accessed. One oversight could have fatal consequences, from crashing the game to gaining or losing billions of credits.

 

Thus the easiest and safest solution was to add one completely new variable with a high limit but also very limited ways of access, that could be extended one step at a time.

 

Dazzled enough?

Edited November 29, 2017 by Mubrak

[LordFell]

Quality of Life enhancement is Quality of Life enhancement.

 

...I have a "bank character" that holds the big bucks, and pays for the big things. If one of my other characters is out of cash, now I no longer need to log out, mail myself money, and log back in. Saves me about 5 minutes of foolishness, or more if my banker happens to be off doing something and hitting a mailbox isn't something I can conveniently do (the fact I have a Mail Bot not-withstanding).

[Andryah]

You're really saying we should take poor functionality because they might **** it up? Not a very positive approach.

 

I'm thoroughly disappointed I can't spend my credits from the consolidated pool, makes it close to useless. As the OP notes, it's barely a step above the existing mailing credits to alts.

 

That is not what I am saying.

 

I am simply speculating as to why they would do it this way. They have been more conservative and hesitant since the great Dupe-Caper of 3.0. So I don't blame them for being cautious, nor does my speculation in any way indicate I agree with what they chose to do. I would prefer the same thing you do.. but I AM a realist and their history of letting exploits escape to the live servers on new features suggest more caution on their part is actually better for everyone.

 

You want it changed, go to the suggestion forum and suggest a change rather then resorting to sarcastic ad hominems and complaining.

 

To actually prodcutively add to the ongoing discussion about value of the new feature...... I have already found the new feature to be very helpful for my GTN-alts as when I see unexpected bargains on the GTN.. I do not need to relog to my credit holding character to transfer credits and then relog and hope to buy the bargains before they are gone. A one minute exercise has been reduced to 5 seconds.. which is great.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Quality of Life enhancement is Quality of Life enhancement.

 

...I have a "bank character" that holds the big bucks, and pays for the big things. If one of my other characters is out of cash, now I no longer need to log out, mail myself money, and log back in. Saves me about 5 minutes of foolishness, or more if my banker happens to be off doing something and hitting a mailbox isn't something I can conveniently do (the fact I have a Mail Bot not-withstanding).

 

Yeah.. this pretty well replaces the need for a bank character.. which is a nice layer to be able to remove in the name of QoL. Though.... being every cautious.. I plan to keep at least a billion or two on a standby bank character still.. you know... in case the legacy bank ever gets bugged from a patch. That way I still have access to funds while they fix whatever they broke.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Andryah