Dear APAC Players

[Aiman_Dee]

Use a VPN like wtfast, problem solved.

[QuinlanSaathis]

You are woefully ignorant of how the internet works.

[Eli_Porter]

VPN's fix bad hops/lag spikes, not bad latency. Edited October 29, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Icykill_]

Use a VPN like wtfast, problem solved.

 

Doesn’t work.., problem not solved

[Icykill_]

You are woefully ignorant of how the internet works.

 

This ^^

 

Exactly this ^^

[Aiman_Dee]

Ping without VPN: 280

 

With: 240

 

7 hops, negligible packet loss

 

Game plays indentically to what is did before the server move.

 

Doesn't work or none of you are willing to try it?

[Zhedzaban]

Ping without VPN: 280

 

With: 240

 

7 hops, negligible packet loss

 

Game plays indentically to what is did before the server move.

 

Doesn't work or none of you are willing to try it?

 

*sigh*

I have it, always have had it, living in Perth it's a necessity when most games are in the US.

Without :350 with regular spikes over 500

With: 320 and fewer spikes.

 

On the west coast I have a steady 210ms. It's the tyranny of distance, nothing else.

[CrazyCT]

Communism works in theory, too.

[Aiman_Dee]

*sigh*

I have it, always have had it, living in Perth it's a necessity when most games are in the US.

Without :350 with regular spikes over 500

With: 320 and fewer spikes.

 

On the west coast I have a steady 210ms. It's the tyranny of distance, nothing else.

 

Then your configuration is wrong, it shouldnt be higher than 280

[Zhedzaban]

Then your configuration is wrong, it shouldnt be higher than 280

 

Even if you are right, 280 is still unacceptable when last week I was a steady 200-210. And when you are playing against people who have 20ms it's the definition of misery.

[OwenBrooks]

Even if you are right, 280 is still unacceptable when last week I was a steady 200-210. And when you are playing against people who have 20ms it's the definition of misery.

 

Best would be around 280ms for perth me thinks, 320ms is certainly within acceptable variance though not knowing the path and load levels along the way, quite easy to see a 40ms variance depending on ISP, if it was a 100ms + variance I would be looking further to why.

 

Router: AS4739 - Perth, AU

Command: traceroute ip 159.153.92.10

 

 

Tracing the route to 159.153.92.10

 

1 gi4-2.dr1.per4.on.ii.net (150.101.172.222) 84 msec 4 msec 4 msec

2 xe1-1-3.cr1.per1.on.ii.net (150.101.34.58) 4 msec 12 msec 4 msec

3 ae17.cr1.adl2.on.ii.net (150.101.33.18) 48 msec 48 msec 48 msec

4 ae16.br1.syd4.on.ii.net (150.101.33.188) 48 msec 48 msec 48 msec

5 be6.cr2.syd7.on.ii.net (150.101.41.125) 48 msec 48 msec 48 msec

6 be51.cr2.syd2.on.ii.net (150.101.40.243) 48 msec 48 msec 48 msec

7 syd-apt-ros-wgw1-be-40.tpgi.com.au (202.7.162.249) 48 msec 48 msec 48 msec

8 203.29.134-68.tpgi.com.au (203.29.134.68) 48 msec

203.29.134-4.tpgi.com.au (203.29.134.4) 48 msec

203.29.134-68.tpgi.com.au (203.29.134.68) 52 msec

9 ix-xe-0-3-0-0.tcore2.SQN-San-Jose.as6453.net (64.86.21.149) 228 msec 228 msec 228 msec

10 * * *

11 * * *

12 4.79.23.202 332 msec 328 msec 328 msec

13 159.153.92.10 288 msec 284 msec 280 msec

 

[Zhedzaban]

Best would be around 280ms for perth me thinks, 320ms is certainly within acceptable variance though not knowing the path and load levels along the way, quite easy to see a 40ms variance depending on ISP, if it was a 100ms + variance I would be looking further to why.

 

Router: AS4739 - Perth, AU

Command: traceroute ip 159.153.92.10

 

Depending on the time of day I have seen it come down to as low as 270, but more often than not it sits over 300 with 320 the most common number. I'm with Telstra on the NBN. I'm not home until next week so cant do a Tracert.

 

With my VPN server selection I've got it pointing to Washington, I assume that's the closest to the VA servers.

[Ylliarus]

Even if you are right, 280 is still unacceptable when last week I was a steady 200-210. And when you are playing against people who have 20ms it's the definition of misery.

 

This is the core of the issue and it makes me so sad that people who are not facing the issue of unacceptably high ping just give throwaway solutions and write the APAC players having a genuine and valid issue with this off as whiners. They are not whining, just because you (talking to the players dismissing the APAC players not the quoted poster) don't face an issue it doesn't mean it's less of a problem or invalid to raise attention towards.

 

Imagine a scenario where Bioware suddenly out of the blue decide to move the new datacenter in Virginia to Ireland for better tax rates and thus lower costs. The east coast players should receive some extra lag yeah, but the west coast players? The distance between their connection sources and the servers becomes even bigger, which will cause them to face a situation the APAC players are now in. Imagine you are one of those players, having 250+ ping with spikes over 300, and you play against me who has currently 30ms by being based in Europe, how would you feel? You see and do everything with a delay while I have barely any at all, would you consider that to be fair towards yourself? And no, you can do very little about it yourself because you won't magically change the laws of physics by having the internet run faster with the existing internet infrastructure. Bioware, for all their promises, won't be able to do much for you either.

 

Take that scenario into consideration and put yourself into that position. Would you still consider the concerns and complaints of the APAC players as invalid?

Edited October 29, 2017 by Ylliarus

[OwenBrooks]

Depending on the time of day I have seen it come down to as low as 270, but more often than not it sits over 300 with 320 the most common number. I'm with Telstra on the NBN. I'm not home until next week so cant do a Tracert.

 

With my VPN server selection I've got it pointing to Washington, I assume that's the closest to the VA servers.

 

I do not see 320ms too far out of the expectation (not that it is great) for the destination from perth

 

The only thing you can try with wtfast is manually set a chained connection see this link

[Holanos]

Even if you are right, 280 is still unacceptable when last week I was a steady 200-210. And when you are playing against people who have 20ms it's the definition of misery.

 

One simple question.....

 

Not playing PVP if it is obviously not possible is out of discussion?

 

I know the answer : We pay for the whole game,we have the RIGHT to mimimimimi.....we had this discussion....

 

But the situation is like it is...so PLEASE....stop complaining and whining and play the parts of the game that are still possible until a solution is found....or leave in anger ...but all those threads regarding THE SAME THEME that are spamming the forum are simply annoying....

Edited October 29, 2017 by Holanos

[QuinlanSaathis]

One simple question.....

 

Not playing PVP if it is obviously not possible is out of discussion?

 

I know the answer : We pay for the whole game,we have the RIGHT to mimimimimi.....we had this discussion....

 

But the situation is like it is...so PLEASE....stop complaining and whining and play the parts of the game that are still possible until a solution is found....or leave in anger ...but all those threads regarding THE SAME THEME that are spamming the forum are simply annoying....

 

Oh I am so sorry our inability to play properly is inconveniencing YOU....

[Ylliarus]

One simple question.....

 

Not playing PVP if it is obviously not possible is out of discussion?

 

I know the answer : We pay for the whole game,we have the RIGHT to mimimimimi.....we had this discussion....

 

But the situation is like it is...so PLEASE....stop complaining and whining and play the parts of the game that are still possible until a solution is found....or leave in anger ...but all those threads regarding THE SAME THEME that are spamming the forum are simply annoying....

 

Then just ignore the forums, you're not obligated to look at them or respond in them. If you only care about yourself and the fact that you can play the game fully without restrictions, then why even bother coming to the forums and talk about the subject? Clearly it doesn't matter to you whether other paying customers can access the game like you can, so if you can play all the content you like, then why engage yourself in this discussion if you solely care about yourself and your ability to play the game you like?

 

Because you know how selfish, arrogant and egotistical it comes across that you say "you can't pvp anymore, tough luck, suck it up, but I can access all the content just fine so you are not allowed to complain"? You keep referencing the EULA as if it is a sacred text, all the while you endure absolutely no issues or problems with the game. Yeah, that's easy, when you face no problems the EULA is good and great, but I bet you that the moment you'd face the issues players in the Asian/Pacific region are facing now then you'd let go of the EULA very quickly.

 

So if someone is hungry and starving, while you are fed and just ate, will you also say they can't feel hungry or aren't allowed to say they're starving because you had just eaten and you could access food without obstacles? Because that's exactly what you're saying now with the attitude you have towards the APAC players.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Ylliarus

[CrazyCT]

Because you know how selfish, arrogant and egotistical it comes across .....

 

Almost as selfish as demanding server merges and to hell with the people who RP?

[Ylliarus]

Almost as selfish as demanding server merges and to hell with the people who RP?

 

Did someone say "to hell with RP people"? No, several people in favour of server merges were rooting for a compromise but no one was willing to budge an inch on both sides. People like me however (former RP'ers or currently inactive RP'ers) even kept poking the developers time and time again to introduce measures to give the RP community assurances and guarantuees they will be able to play and roleplay to their heart's content everywhere. Do you want to see the PM's I sent to Keith? There are several of them suggesting things that could be done to make RP safe in public.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Ylliarus

[CrazyCT]

Does it really matter? Server merges are here, and now everyone will just have to "suck it up", because that's what the majority wanted. You can protest and campaign all you want now for the people who are going to suffer, but it won't matter one bit. It's too late, and the decision has already been made to please you in your desire for the merges. Whether people have to give up PvP because the latency difference is too great, or have to give up their peaceful gameplay, it looks like we all have to lose a part of our game to suit this 'majority'.

 

It's a damn shame the game is going to lose so many players because people couldn't see what merges meant, all they wanted was a few seconds shaved off their queue time. Ironic that the queue times for PvP will probably actually go up because so many people won't play it with the lag anymore.

 

Three cheers for the "winners".

Edited October 29, 2017 by CrazyCT

[Ylliarus]

Does it really matter? Server merges are here, and now everyone will just have to "suck it up", because that's what the majority wanted. You can protest and campaign all you want now for the people who are going to suffer, but it won't matter one bit. It's too late, and the decision has already been made to please you in your desire for the merges. Whether people have to give up PvP because the latency difference is too great, or have to give up their peaceful gameplay, it looks like we all have to lose a part of our game to suit this 'majority'.

 

It's a damn shame the game is going to lose so many players because people couldn't see what merges meant, all they wanted was a few seconds shaved off their queue time. Ironic that the queue times for PvP will probably actually go up because so many people won't play it with the lag anymore.

 

Three cheers for the "winners".

 

No one ever wanted this to be about winning or losing, that's what you made of it. Server merges were a logical step forward in having a united playerbase and not one divided over various servers, of which most were dead. The RP Community is getting measures to satisfy them, it may take Bioware a while to implement it but they are coming. So if RP'ers leave without even taking the time and decency to wait for these measures then the fault is with their unwillingness to try the changes out.

 

The same does not apply to the APAC players. RP'ers knew server merges were incoming, no one of the playerbase knew that the West Coast datacenter would be moved and dissapear. On top of that, ping times and high ping times that make the game unplayable for the APAC players is not something Bioware can do anything about unless they reveal they are a tower full of wizards who can change the laws of physics, whereas measures for the RP community can be taken as well as accomodations made for them and currently are being developed.

 

Besides, not all of the RP community is negative about the server merges. I have been engaging in discussions with roleplayers on the Progenitor RP enjin forums (which already have a banner saying Darth Malgus RP, such eagerness!) and people are very neutral about the issue with actually several being quite positive. The thing RP'ers worry about most is the divergence of lore and setting with the choices you can make on Iokath, server merges don't even seem to bother them anymore. So from what I have seen majority of the RP community (on the Progenitor that is) has just accepted server merges and worry about other, perhaps more important stuff.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Ylliarus

[omaan]

Does it really matter? Server merges are here, and now everyone will just have to "suck it up", because that's what the majority wanted. You can protest and campaign all you want now for the people who are going to suffer, but it won't matter one bit. It's too late, and the decision has already been made to please you in your desire for the merges. Whether people have to give up PvP because the latency difference is too great, or have to give up their peaceful gameplay, it looks like we all have to lose a part of our game to suit this 'majority'.

 

It's a damn shame the game is going to lose so many players because people couldn't see what merges meant, all they wanted was a few seconds shaved off their queue time. Ironic that the queue times for PvP will probably actually go up because so many people won't play it with the lag anymore.

 

Three cheers for the "winners".

 

People wanted server merges, we got it. THATS ALL. The fact that biofail decided to move west coast to east cost along with server merges is absolutely another problem, which occured in paralel with server merges. It is like you asked your supermarket to make a day of sales with discounts, they made such day, and tonnes of people came to buy things but because of the fact this special day drawed so many people into the supermarket some thieves used the situation and stolen some of the product. So will you accuse people who asked for this special discount-day for stolen products or thieves who used the situation and actually did it? It's biofail's stupid decision, and their fault, and merges has nothing to do with it

[Tsillah]

Almost as selfish as demanding server merges and to hell with the people who RP?

What Bioware cannot say out loud but I will here, is that it is entirely possible that the server merges and the strong inconvience it causes for APAC players and RP'ers are part of a strategy to keep the game alive and viable.

 

If you think that keeping servers open for a small group of players doesn't cost anything then you are sorely mistaken. I truly am sorry for APAC players (except Icykill) and RP'ers but if this is what it takes to keep the game from falling apart as a whole then rotten as it is, it's what Bioware has to do.

 

Don't mistake that for me being happy about the situation though. I'd rather it had never come to this point, but I fear 5.0 did entirely too much damage to a game that needed a turnaround and not another exodus of players.

[IoNonSoEVero]

No one ever wanted this to be about winning or losing, that's what you made of it. Server merges were a logical step forward in having a united playerbase and not one divided over various servers, of which most were dead. The RP Community is getting measures to satisfy them, it may take Bioware a while to implement it but they are coming. So if RP'ers leave without even taking the time and decency to wait for these measures then the fault is with their unwillingness to try the changes out.

 

The same does not apply to the APAC players. RP'ers knew server merges were incoming, no one of the playerbase knew that the West Coast datacenter would be moved and dissapear. On top of that, ping times and high ping times that make the game unplayable for the APAC players is not something Bioware can do anything about unless they reveal they are a tower full of wizards who can change the laws of physics, whereas measures for the RP community can be taken as well as accomodations made for them and currently are being developed.

 

Besides, not all of the RP community is negative about the server merges. I have been engaging in discussions with roleplayers on the Progenitor RP enjin forums (which already have a banner saying Darth Malgus RP, such eagerness!) and people are very neutral about the issue with actually several being quite positive. The thing RP'ers worry about most is the divergence of lore and setting with the choices you can make on Iokath, server merges don't even seem to bother them anymore. So from what I have seen majority of the RP community (on the Progenitor that is) has just accepted server merges and worry about other, perhaps more important stuff.

 

Part of the issue is that many APAC players are taking the stance that the data center should be moved to the WC, and to h**l with the larger player base on the EC that will harm. That doesn't inspire much empathy.

 

No game QoL measures for players who don't want to be harassed have actually been announced, but players are being told to sit tight and wait it out, even if their game is unplayable in the interim. Meanwhile the APACs aren't even willing to give BW the two weeks they asked for to try to resolve some of the latency issues.

 

For all we know, if there are enough complaints, dropped subs or negative reports, the SWTOR devs can make a case with EA to reinstate the other data center, or contract with a new one on the WC, but there's already this assumption that nothing can be done at all. The game's going to be down for quite some time on November 8 so there is certainly enough time for them to take some actions, such as migrating all the formerly WC servers to a new location.

 

And if not- those of us who were upset about mergers because of the potential for more harassment, lost names, more open area ninjas, overall server toxicity and other QoL issues - many of which have NOT been addressed and are not part of the RP community's concerns - were told that the mergers were in the majority's best interest, even if it hurts us personally. The EC data servers are also in the majority's best interest, so the same argument applies.

[Ylliarus]

No game QoL measures for players who don't want to be harassed have actually been announced, but players are being told to sit tight and wait it out, even if their game is unplayable in the interim. Meanwhile the APACs aren't even willing to give BW the two weeks they asked for to try to resolve some of the latency issues.

 

No specifics have been given yes, but Charles Boyd and Eric Musco have stated in multiple interviews and streams since the announcement of server merges that they are working on finding a solution to this, but they can't give specifics yet as the measures they had in mind weren't as easy to implement as initially thought. This has been stated in the Bad Feeling Podcast Buvette #2 recently amongst others.