Punishing players for respecing!

[joscomi]

Here's the thing about that though. Nobody good enough to do well in PvP with a PvE spec (or vise versa) would choose to do so if they didn't have to.

 

 

Also, to the *****s going on about "making choices," what's good for leveling isn't always what's good for end-game. So you're basically saying people should be punished for not intentionally handicapping themselves.

 

Most people that end game, just lvl to end game. Request end game loot to have dps bonuses to fill in gaps, have healing bonuses to help with healing, have tanking bonuses for tanking.

 

Really no need for dual spec.

[CharagonIGN]

Whatever you think. Most of you people wanting dual specs or respecs, wouldn't make it past the first level of Etrian Odyssey. You can respec, sure. You just permanently lose 5 levels everytime you do it.

 

The whole idea of skill trees and stuff, is so your skills matter. If you just let the player change it at the drop of a hat, why not just throw the whole tree out? It's not serving the purpose.

 

The purpose of the skill trees is to set how you want to play your character. Not set how you want to play your character IN ALL SITUATIONS FOREVER.

 

 

I liked the use of grenades in Saboteur so that's what I picked for tree to level. I'll probably stick with it at end-game for DPS with some Sharpshooter mixed in.

 

However, that spec isn't going to do very well in PvP. To PvP, I'll need more talents out of Dirty Fighting. The Dirty Fighting tree will provide me with much better tools to do what I want in PvP.

 

 

 

Are you saying I should reroll, relevel, and regear my Smuggler just to be effective in PvP?

 

Do you have any idea how pants-on-head retarded that is?

[CharagonIGN]

A. They do as long as the group isn't full. Even if it is, you don't need to be ultra-awesome skill spec'd to do your job well. Just know what you're supposed to do.

 

B. I've never had any problem with my companions. they perform their task well. Better then most players I know in my MMO history.

 

So you are bad, and you play with people that are bad. Go off play Farmville or something and leave the real gaming to the real gamers.

[EvanSnowWolf]

What is the point in having three different trees of you are just gonna snap your fingers anytime you want and change it?

[Gamatic]

I just dont believe how many ppl are total ignorats. Because you dont need dual spec, nobody will have it? You dont enjoy pvp? Lets remove it. You dont enjoy pve? Lets remove it. There are others who play the game too, stop telling them how they are supose to play it. Yes, there are ppl who dont just run around without goal watching trees and buildings, there are ppl who enjoy game in every aspects, and they are punished for it.

 

(btw argument with companions made my day. Because this game is about your companions right? Can you heal this flash point? sorry dude cant i picked bad spec, but i can send you my companion to do that, right?)

[EvanSnowWolf]

You really like that word "punished."

 

You use dat word a lot. I do no think it means what you think it means.

 

 

 

Seriously, you just gonna use that "some people find it fun" argument for everything? I thought the Golden Gun that killed anyone in one hit in GoldenEye 64 was fun, can I have that?

[CharagonIGN]

What is the point in having three different trees of you are just gonna snap your fingers anytime you want and change it?

To let you enjoy ALL of the content of the game instead of limiting you to purely what you specced for.

[joscomi]

The purpose of the skill trees is to set how you want to play your character. Not set how you want to play your character IN ALL SITUATIONS FOREVER.

 

 

I liked the use of grenades in Saboteur so that's what I picked for tree to level. I'll probably stick with it at end-game for DPS with some Sharpshooter mixed in.

 

However, that spec isn't going to do very well in PvP. To PvP, I'll need more talents out of Dirty Fighting. The Dirty Fighting tree will provide me with much better tools to do what I want in PvP.

 

 

 

Are you saying I should reroll, relevel, and regear my Smuggler just to be effective in PvP?

 

Do you have any idea how pants-on-head retarded that is?

 

When I started my lvl 10 commando, I killed many lvl 50s. Was it because I had a pvp build? Of course not.

 

Am I going to spec him specifically for pvp? Of course not.

 

Am I successful in pvp with a healer's build? Of course.

 

What I am saying is, you do not need to be lvl 50 and have a pvp build to do well in warzones. It really comes down to skill, not skill trees.

 

I play a sentinel as my main, for PvE and probably going to raid with him. I made my commando healer to pvp.

[HoneyBoy]

I don't get the argument from the "your choice should matter" camp when dual/tri/quad/etc speccing would still be limited to 41 skill points per spec. How you choose those 41 talent points is the choice for each spec is what matters.

 

If you're still vehemently against multi-spec options in this game just don't use it! The people you play alongside or versus will still have the same 41 skill points you did!

[_Miranda_]

Respec is so you can change.

 

It is not so you can change rapidly multiple times a day.

 

Why not?

 

I could in Rift. I could in a lot of other games too.

 

Allowing players to have multiple roles is a good thing, because it allows for diversity in play.

 

I also feel it helps make players better, since if a primary healer gets to play dps too, s/he may come to better understand dps players and how they work. This would certainly be a useful thing to learn for PvP, and probably for PvE as well.

[Sendrel]

What is the point in having three different trees of you are just gonna snap your fingers anytime you want and change it?

 

This particular argument (and its pretty common) just kind of shows an inability to follow a point to a logical conclusion. If there is a respec NPC, then not having dual spec just adds tedium. That's it. Essentially, for those who care to farm the credits and can be bothered to run back to the NPC every time they want to respec, they already can 'snap your fingers anytime you want and change it'.

 

Its tedium for tedium's sake, and that's not good game design.

 

You know what is good game design? Adding options that do nothing to diminish the gameplay of others. Options adds to replayability and keeps people sub's longer. Which is exactly the kind of option that dual spec provides.

[CharagonIGN]

When I started my lvl 10 commando, I killed many lvl 50s. Was it because I had a pvp build? Of course not.

 

Am I going to spec him specifically for pvp? Of course not.

 

Am I successful in pvp with a healer's build? Of course.

 

What I am saying is, you do not need to be lvl 50 and have a pvp build to do well in warzones. It really comes down to skill, not skill trees.

 

I play a sentinel as my main, for PvE and probably going to raid with him. I made my commando healer to pvp.

 

This will last for maybe another couple months. Then you will be crushed by people wearing PvP gear and using PvP specs.

[JSykes]

Dual spec is one of the best ideas World of Warcraft ever implemented. I can't even begin to relate how horribly frustrating it was having to grind for all my raid supplies every single week as a tanking warrior in vanilla (And there were a TON of consumables that you could only hold one of, etc.)

 

Tank specs are not soloing specs. Tanks don't want to be tanks when they're alone, it makes the game slow, boring and frustrating.

 

Healers don't want to be healers when they're alone, either.

 

As another example, say I want to go do some PVP. I am actively reducing the effectiveness of the team I'm on if my spec isn't optimized for PVP, and am contributing to a potential loss. I am the kind of player that doesn't want to do this. If I can't compete, I stay out.

 

Dual specs are totally needed.

Maybe for you... but as a Tank Spec Jugg and a Heal Spec Sage I can and normally do come in the top 3 of Dmg and Healing or Dmg and Protection with 30+ kills and at least 10 killing blows. Just got to learn to play the class in unison with other classes.

 

As far as the respec cost, good. Keeps my credits valuable if you're respeccing every 4 minutes. I don't want to go back to WoWs dual spec where once you got it you never really spent gold again on respecs till patch changed some stuff. If Dual Spec is ever added to TOR (which isn't close according to todays AMA with SR) it should be at least 1 million to unlock.

[krisslanza]

So you are bad, and you play with people that are bad. Go off play Farmville or something and leave the real gaming to the real gamers.

 

Real gamers? Don't make me laugh. A real gamer wouldn't need to respec every 5 minutes because they require MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY all the time. That's just for metagamers and elitists who think every little number matters to be "good" at anything.

[Gamatic]

Theres totaly no reason trying to have point, ppl just repeating themselfs without even thinking second over others opinions.

 

So tell me, why is there even respec? My respec cost is atm over 300k credits because i respeced few times to heal guildies. How do you call that? I call that punished.

 

Dual spec offers you options to play what is needed either for you (pvp) or for others (pve). But yeah, game does not have it at start, so you ppl will be defending bioware blindly for not adding feature that became standard. Yeah, its not standard in SWTOR, get use to it. I bet you have even some defending point why 5 of 6 hard flashpoints are bugged and not able to be completed. Guess its also standard in this game. Give me a break

[CharagonIGN]

One more thing, not that I expect most of the monkeys here to get this, but respeccing isn't even the primary barrier to performing different roles. Gear is.

 

 

I can be specced for tanking all I want but it's not going to matter if I don't have any HP.

[joscomi]

This particular argument (and its pretty common) just kind of shows an inability to follow a point to a logical conclusion. If there is a respec NPC, then not having dual spec just adds tedium. That's it. Essentially, for those who care to farm the credits and can be bothered to run back to the NPC every time they want to respec, they already can 'snap your fingers anytime you want and change it'.

 

Its tedium for tedium's sake, and that's not good game design.

 

You know what is good game design? Adding options that do nothing to diminish the gameplay of others. Options adds to replayability and keeps people sub's longer. Which is exactly the kind of option that dual spec provides.

 

But the logic most of the pro dual spec'ers miss, is the respec vendor is only there if you picked the wrong choices in your tree. It gives you a limited amount of chances before it costs so much and it forces you to take one role.

 

That respec vendor isnt designed in the game to allow for unlimited spec changes, to swith role to role. It is only there for mistakes.

 

The cost is a balancing agent for a spec change in a game designed to keep characters in one role.

 

Follow the logic?

[Jeweledleah]

I don't get the argument from the "your choice should matter" camp when dual/tri/quad/etc speccing would still be limited to 41 skill points per spec. How you choose those 41 talent points is the choice for each spec is what matters.

 

If you're still vehemently against multi-spec options in this game just don't use it! The people you play alongside or versus will still have the same 41 skill points you did!

 

except the moment the feature like that is introduced? you are EXPECTED to have both specs set up and ready.

 

the argument of "don't want to, don't do it" works only on solo features... like space combat for instance. the moment a feature affects multiplayer gameplay? it becomes an expectation.

 

yes, your choice should matter. in a story based game, how you chose to specialize your character should be an important decision, not something you can just switch around whenever you feel like without any consequences.

 

now, if it was significantly more difficult to say.. solo as a healer in this game and you really need to be dps to level? I could see the whole dual spec thing. but that's what you get companions for. and your leveling experience is balanced, regardless of which spec you play.

 

for people who think that dual spec will encourage more people to tank/heal? you are mistaken. people who don't want to be healing? will not be healing. they will use their second spec for something else.

[Almar]

Main question is why are you worried about raid dps at this point in time

[joscomi]

This will last for maybe another couple months. Then you will be crushed by people wearing PvP gear and using PvP specs.

 

We shall see, but I can gaurantee those lvl 50s had sweet armor compared to my lvl 10 basic armor.

 

I schooled the fools never the less.

[CharagonIGN]

Main question is why are you worried about raid dps at this point in time

 

Same reason I call ahead when I order take out. So it's ready when I get there.

[KrelosDarksky]

Why ... why is it a standard not to play as you wish ?

 

Pls give me the negative from playing a game the way you want ?

 

Does changing specs alot hurt anyone ?

 

I simply wish to level for a few then pvp for a few ... is that so wrong?

 

It isn't the standard.

 

You can change as often as you want.

 

You just have to be willing at accept the consequences. If those consequences are too much for you to bare then you need to rethink what you are doing and why. It is for YOU to change .. not the mechanic.

 

You can follow the logic that you are allowed to do anything you want as often as you want as long as you are willing to accept the consequences of your actions.

 

Just like RL.

[Sendrel]

But the logic most of the pro dual spec'ers miss, is the respec vendor is only there if you picked the wrong choices in your tree. It gives you a limited amount of chances before it costs so much and it forces you to take one role.

 

That respec vendor isnt designed in the game to allow for unlimited spec changes, to swith role to role. It is only there for mistakes.

 

The cost is a balancing agent for a spec change in a game designed to keep characters in one role.

 

Follow the logic?

 

If the intent was to keep characters in one role, they wouldn't have included a respec NPC at all. If the respec agent wasn't designed for unlimited spec changes, there would be a hard limit (not soft, i.e. monetary). The point you're missing is that having the respec agent at all, kind of negates your whole argument unless there are hard limits. Which there aren't.

 

Again, farming the credits and running back to the NPC is tedium for no appreciable purpose other than tedium. It may stop some people from respec'ing often, but not others. So its really a tax on those who like to diversify.

 

And, I'll add this again, for no good reason. It doesn't negatively impact your gameplay at all. Not even a little bit.

[Warec]

Theres totaly no reason trying to have point, ppl just repeating themselfs without even thinking second over others opinions.

 

So tell me, why is there even respec? My respec cost is atm over 300k credits because i respeced few times to heal guildies. How do you call that? I call that punished.

 

Dual spec offers you options to play what is needed either for you (pvp) or for others (pve). But yeah, game does not have it at start, so you ppl will be defending bioware blindly for not adding feature that became standard. Yeah, its not standard in SWTOR, get use to it. I bet you have even some defending point why 5 of 6 hard flashpoints are bugged and not able to be completed. Guess its also standard in this game. Give me a break

 

300K??? Are you serious? That is ridiculously stupid. In lieu of having a dual spec for the time being, they NEED to put a reasonable cap on respec costs. Something like 50K is where it should cap and that should be after many respecs.

 

I agree. There are certain features from other games, that have become an accepted standard these days. Dual speccing is one of them.

[Leo_Hyborian]

Games should have choices.

 

Choices that have impact.

 

ITs one of the reasons im extremely thankful for my AC respec, and why talent respecs NEED a price.

 

You want to level then pvp, do it as the same spec, or do it less often, or suck it up, and pay for it.

 

its the vocal minority like this that meant in this game i wont be tanking. GL finding healers and tanks with this sort of attitude in the game. BTW, tanks i seen so far in 2 weeks of gaming are utter ****.