DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 To be clear I am not talking about fan created expansions like you see in single player offline games. I doubt anything like that could work for an MMORPG. There are a lot of creative people in the community (not that there are not at Bioware but sometimes an outside view is beneficial and taking some of the load off that team, especially if they are understaffed, might give them time to work on other SWTOR projects). I play a lot of pen and paper RPGs and one of the best fan inspired content sources was a magazine called Dungeon Magazine for the Dungeons and Dragons game. It was filled with gamer inspired adventures and materials. Some of it wasn't that great but a lot was fantastic and of a quality that rivaled some of the professional releases. Now not everyone is a skilled graphic designer or animation artist but there is a lot of re-usable material in the game. What about creating a "Design a Planet" contest where users submit their ideas (or even complete flowcharts - decision trees for story content) on story, raids, and pvp or lore and exploration achievements to fit into a new planet to be released as an expansion pack? The prize for content that made it into the final version could be something as simple as a title that displays in game (It would have to be clear from the start that there is no financial reward involved but rather the satisfaction of contributing to the game you love). Obviously there will be bad or biased ideas that will get presented but sifting through it shouldn't take too much staff and in a lot of ways would make people feel more invested in the game. The way Dungeon Magazine did it was to have the "author" present a brief synopsis of the content (a paragraph or two). If the editorial staff liked it they would ask for an expansion of the synopsis or even a first draft. Could something like this work, egos aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarSaenz Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 To be clear I am not talking about fan created expansions like you see in single player offline games. I doubt anything like that could work for an MMORPG. Um, actually, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen has or had this thing that if you contributed like a lot of money (in the thousands or tens of thousands) to their development funding, you could help design a dungeon or raid with their team. Granted Pantheon is not a finished game and has yet to release a beta, but still. There are a lot of creative people in the community (not that there are not at Bioware but sometimes an outside view is beneficial and taking some of the load off that team, especially if they are understaffed, might give them time to work on other SWTOR projects). I play a lot of pen and paper RPGs and one of the best fan inspired content sources was a magazine called Dungeon Magazine for the Dungeons and Dragons game. It was filled with gamer inspired adventures and materials. Some of it wasn't that great but a lot was fantastic and of a quality that rivaled some of the professional releases. Now not everyone is a skilled graphic designer or animation artist but there is a lot of re-usable material in the game. What about creating a "Design a Planet" contest where users submit their ideas (or even complete flowcharts - decision trees for story content) on story, raids, and pvp or lore and exploration achievements to fit into a new planet to be released as an expansion pack? The prize for content that made it into the final version could be something as simple as a title that displays in game (It would have to be clear from the start that there is no financial reward involved but rather the satisfaction of contributing to the game you love). Obviously there will be bad or biased ideas that will get presented but sifting through it shouldn't take too much staff and in a lot of ways would make people feel more invested in the game. The way Dungeon Magazine did it was to have the "author" present a brief synopsis of the content (a paragraph or two). If the editorial staff liked it they would ask for an expansion of the synopsis or even a first draft. Could something like this work, egos aside. I think this would be good in theory if the person chosen actually had good ideas and concept art/work/whatever. BW/EA though might be too proud to admit they needed outside help to make new content though, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Um, actually, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen has or had this thing that if you contributed like a lot of money (in the thousands or tens of thousands) to their development funding, you could help design a dungeon or raid with their team. Granted Pantheon is not a finished game and has yet to release a beta, but still. Yeah, Pathfinder Online did something similar in its "crowd funding" phase. Whether it worked or not is still up for debate. It was going to be a true sandbox game but there are some pretty big holes in it still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 I think this would be good in theory if the person chosen actually had good ideas and concept art/work/whatever. Absolutely true although it is possible to piece together good content from multiple sources to create a unified whole. Several people could coordinate for story and raids. PVP could be a pick the best one or two submissions, and lore and exploration could be wide open. It would take commitment from whoever got involved to do a good job and not necessarily gain fame and fortune but maybe for those up and coming "game designers" it would be a place to start (almost like an internship) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Someone asked Charles this on twitter recently, and they can't accept work from people who are not employed by BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Someone asked Charles this on twitter recently, and they can't accept work from people who are not employed by BW. That's too bad. It would be a great source of material (and resources). Oh well, it was a nice idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 That's too bad. It would be a great source of material (and resources). Oh well, it was a nice idea. Probably to do with confusing legal stuff. Kinda sad as I've seen some nice ideas by players, like Yllia's PvP Warzone idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Probably to do with confusing legal stuff. Kinda sad as I've seen some nice ideas by players, like Yllia's PvP Warzone idea! It usually does. Maybe we can just create a "Design a Planet" thread and the developers can "steal" from it as they like since the forums are public domain (or everything on them belongs to EA/Bioware. I don't recall exactly how that works). Edited October 17, 2017 by DWho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 It usually does. Maybe we can just create a "Design a Planet" thread and the developers can "steal" from it as they like since the forums are public domain. Heh, you'd think that's what the suggestion box is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Heh, you'd think that's what the suggestion box is for. Yeah, but the suggestion box is usually just a bunch of random stuff with no coordinated theme. Very difficult to sort through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Yeah that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Yeah that's true. The only problem with using the forums is that it is an overwhelming den of negativity. I sometimes wonder if anyone who has anything positive to say about the game comes to the forums at all much less posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Someone asked Charles this on twitter recently, and they can't accept work from people who are not employed by BW. Bummer, and I was looking forward to creating and publishing a gay rave house on Nar Shadaa. Edited October 17, 2017 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm-Cutter Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Read through the forums, OP. - There have been scores, hundreds, maybe even thousands of suggestions for this game. - New WZ maps, GSF scenarios, all manner of operations, many different planets in the SW galaxy to visit, many types of PvE content, missions, events, NPCs, cartel market suggestions, armour types, gearing, progression, RP locations, races, classes, story arcs, villains, heroes, factions..... Pretty much none of them ever came to fruition. Ever. When was the last time we saw "inspired by community input' ? Edited October 17, 2017 by Storm-Cutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Read through the forums, OP. - There have been scores, hundreds, maybe even thousands of suggestions for this game. - New WZ maps, GSF scenarios, all manner of operations, many different planets in the SW galaxy to visit, many types of PvE content, missions, events, NPCs, cartel market suggestions, armour types, gearing, progression, RP locations, races, classes, story arcs, villains, heroes, factions..... Pretty much none of them ever came to fruition. Ever. When was the last time we saw "inspired by community input' ? Then its long past time for that to change. As a community we could do a much better job of presenting this kind of information. What usually happens is someone suggests something and then someone responds how dumb an idea it is (a lot of times just to be negative) and then the bickering goes back and forth until the the idea dies (some ideas are bad but there are good ones too). That is part of what I meant about the negativity of the forums and how it would be difficult to present any kind of game design ideas and why Bioware probably ignores a lot of those threads. Why not build on ideas instead of tearing them to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Then its long past time for that to change. As a community we could do a much better job of presenting this kind of information. What usually happens is someone suggests something and then someone responds how dumb an idea it is (a lot of times just to be negative) and then the bickering goes back and forth until the the idea dies (some ideas are bad but there are good ones too). That is part of what I meant about the negativity of the forums and how it would be difficult to present any kind of game design ideas and why Bioware probably ignores a lot of those threads. Why not build on ideas instead of tearing them to pieces. We also present ideas when we attend cantinas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarSaenz Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Then its long past time for that to change. As a community we could do a much better job of presenting this kind of information. What usually happens is someone suggests something and then someone responds how dumb an idea it is (a lot of times just to be negative) and then the bickering goes back and forth until the the idea dies (some ideas are bad but there are good ones too). That is part of what I meant about the negativity of the forums and how it would be difficult to present any kind of game design ideas and why Bioware probably ignores a lot of those threads. Why not build on ideas instead of tearing them to pieces. I think also alot of suggestions and ideas in the "Suggestion Box" sub forum don't materialize in game is because actually implementing said idea is out of the question and/or the studio just doesn't have the bandwidth to do. For example, I've seen multiple threads about adding a Republic SIS agent and Imperial Trooper class and even a Zakuul Knight. I remember at least one of these posts going into great detail regarding the skill progression and story arc. These 3 classes sound fantastic just reading about them. However, I think BW/EA confirmed that there will be no new (base) classes and that they won't really touch 1-50 content. Such an endeavor would be too expensive with not enough return on investment. A lot of us (me included) have asked for a continuation of class stories. Again, I think that in real life it would get too expensive, and again the return on investment wouldn't be worth it. A lot of us (me included) have proposed amazing ideas for expansions. -Defections (imagine a SW running around the Republic fleet grouping with Smugglers and JCs) -New big planets like Voss and Tatooine -More strongholds -More FULL ops, FPs, WZs -New Events that includes new content and new stuff to do -Swoop bike racing -Pazaak -Sabaac -Flying mounts -New abilities. All of these are great ideas and if implemented and done right would be greatly appreciated by the players. However, keep in mind that EA is a business. And, knowing the player base is shrinking probably doesn't give EA much reason to invest the money into BW studio Austin to hire new talent and invest the money needed to make such wild ideas reality. Given the game's history such an investment would be very risky and probably too risky given that the success of said expansion is not a sure or even probable thing. EA understandably doesn't want to gamble big on an RNG box and not even get green loot . Then, there's some ideas that just won't fit well with SWTOR. I am mainly thinking about new playable species. I've seen some people want to play as wookies, trandoshans, Ithorians , hutts, Jawas. Those ideas while maybe a fun thought experiment really don't mesh well with the guidelines given for a PC in this game. So, there's some valid reasons why our suggestions are just seemingly thrown into the death star trash compactor. but, then sometimes, every once in a blue moon, an idea gets picked up. the most recent example I can think of is an Arcann romance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 All of these are great ideas and if implemented and done right would be greatly appreciated by the players. However, keep in mind that EA is a business. And, knowing the player base is shrinking probably doesn't give EA much reason to invest the money into BW studio Austin to hire new talent and invest the money needed to make such wild ideas reality. Given the game's history such an investment would be very risky and probably too risky given that the success of said expansion is not a sure or even probable thing. EA understandably doesn't want to gamble big on an RNG box and not even get green loot . Yes, that was why I was hopeful the community could play some role in developing the content rather than just suggest it. That was, from a legal standpoint, I suppose a vain hope in the Gaming Industry climate of today. Things were a lot different in the past where fan based material was considered a sign of the game's following. As I said there are a lot of talented people that could make it work outside the gaming industry. It's just too difficult to incorporate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilkat Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I'd still love to see an arc that features the Vong, but I know that probably won't happen. Even though this game and the expanded universe stuff have both been relegated to the "legends" vault by Disney. A waste for them, but it could be a potential gold mine for the designers of this game if they wanted to find some new ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarSaenz Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Yes, that was why I was hopeful the community could play some role in developing the content rather than just suggest it. That was, from a legal standpoint, I suppose a vain hope in the Gaming Industry climate of today. Things were a lot different in the past where fan based material was considered a sign of the game's following. As I said there are a lot of talented people that could make it work outside the gaming industry. It's just too difficult to incorporate them. Yeah. I think about it like this. Let's say I did the high level design of a new, big planet. I drew concept art (I have no drawing artistic abilities in real life by the way) of what each sub section of the planet would look like. I designed not just the look of mobs and a world boss, I documented their behavior in a fight and stats, etc. All taht stuff that if I tried to exhaustively list, I'd still miss stuff. Let's say I did all that and handed it over to BW free of charge. I could potentially be seen as working for free if I wasn't paid. Even if I signed some release form, someone in the legal dept probably still has to type up the forms. And even then, if I went through all that trouble (and it would be a lot of trouble if it isn't apparent), I don't think I'd want to do it for free. And, if BW/Ea has to pay for designs of a new planet, then why not get a professional? Sigh. Oh, well. The game is good and could be a lot better. The studio just doesn't have the needed funding and might never get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holanos Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 just to let it end like axxanar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 just to let it end like axxanar? Boy, that makes me want to dig out my old Starfleet Command games and play them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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