Concentration/Fury on Parsely Leaderboards??

[Eloi_BG]

Did a bunch of testing, turns out that the gcd scaling is really weird. If you have a 1.31s gcd it will round to 1.4 seconds. It isn't until you get just below (or exactly) 1.3 seconds that you get the 1.3s gcd.

 

I'm just here wondering how no one spotted this before. You talking averages? (cause your average with force lightning didn't change in your earlier post)

[yellow_]

Is this for real? Like to they really round up to the closest 0.1s? I see the 3-4 APM difference you are talking about in the top fury parses on parsely (with people having the exact same rotation, higher APM generally has a bit less crit, but still parses a few hundred more). This would affect more than just Fury tho, unless I don't understand what you just said. Please elaborate.

 

(can someone also tell me what % 1850 is for cause I gotta math stuff)

Just by mousing over your abilities it suggests that any rounding going on is to the hundredth of a second at the least. Sure, if you're casting something like snipe it rounds to the tenth on the castbar but based on other information I see no reason to believe that isn't a purely visual thing to keep those mostly pointless hundredths of a second off the castbar in the UI.

 

I'm open to the possibility of this extra alacrity enhancement sweet spot existing, but I am very skeptical that any of the explanations for it (if it's real) in this thread are correct.

Edited September 28, 2017 by yellow_

[shyroman]

Just by mousing over your abilities it suggests that any rounding going on is to the hundredth of a second at the least. Sure, if you're casting something like snipe it rounds to the tenth on the castbar but based on other information I see no reason to believe that isn't a purely visual thing to keep those mostly pointless hundredths of a second off the castbar in the UI.

 

I'm open to the possibility of this extra alacrity enhancement sweet spot existing, but I am very skeptical that any of the explanations for it (if it's real) in this thread are correct.

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/318745

http://parsely.io/parser/view/318743

 

The first parse is with 1 less alacrity augment than the 2nd. My connection is stable and I sit at 15 ms. The second one was just above the alacrity threshold to reach 1.3 seconds on the gcd while the first one was slightly below. I've tried this for multiple classes (lightning sorc and marksman sniper) and found very similar results. I've also tried the same thing but with the threshold to reach 1.4 seconds and found the exact same thing for all of those specs. I've also had someone else test the same things and they've found similar results. The abilities that are cast/channeled that are longer than 1 gcd seem to round to the nearest .01 second which is unnoticeable but abilities that are instant or are exactly 1 gcd always act like it's rounding up.

[shyroman]

I'm just here wondering how no one spotted this before. You talking averages? (cause your average with force lightning didn't change in your earlier post)

 

Those averages were the same because I didn't use the right alacrity, both of those averages were in the same threshold of 1.3 seconds.

[Eloi_BG]

Those averages were the same because I didn't use the right alacrity, both of those averages were in the same threshold of 1.3 seconds.

 

Thanks that clears it up. Also from reading your answer to doc, seems like instant abilities are more affected (cause no casts). So a melee would get more benefit.

[yellow_]

http://parsely.io/parser/view/318745

http://parsely.io/parser/view/318743

 

The first parse is with 1 less alacrity augment than the 2nd. My connection is stable and I sit at 15 ms. The second one was just above the alacrity threshold to reach 1.3 seconds on the gcd while the first one was slightly below. I've tried this for multiple classes (lightning sorc and marksman sniper) and found very similar results. I've also tried the same thing but with the threshold to reach 1.4 seconds and found the exact same thing for all of those specs. I've also had someone else test the same things and they've found similar results. The abilities that are cast/channeled that are longer than 1 gcd seem to round to the nearest .01 second which is unnoticeable but abilities that are instant or are exactly 1 gcd always act like it's rounding up.

ho-lee **** i see what you mean in the parse

 

this one where the space between abilities keeps being about 1.4...what would you expect that value to be based on your alacrity? like I said earlier in the thread, I'm not much a pve player so I don't know the standard build off the top of my head

[shyroman]

ho-lee **** i see what you mean in the parse

 

this one where the space between abilities keeps being about 1.4...what would you expect that value to be based on your alacrity? like I said earlier in the thread, I'm not much a pve player so I don't know the standard build off the top of my head

 

1.31 seconds was what my force stasis channel time was which should've been where my gcd was.

[yellow_]

1.31 seconds was what my force stasis channel time was which should've been where my gcd was.

Am I wrong in thinking that's a really huge deal? That's so much wasted stat if you stop right before the sweet spot. How is this not more known?

 

Would the alacrity %s for the 1.3 and 1.4 sweet spots be about 14% and 7%, respectively?

Edited September 29, 2017 by yellow_

[yellow_]

Tried it for myself, seems totally real.

 

One odd thing I've noticed is that I went carnage to put myself in what should put me below 1.3 for that sweet spot. And I do get a lot of GCDs having exactly 1.3s between them but I also have a fairly substantial number that round all the way up to 1.4. Wondering if I'm just shaving the alacrity too close or my ping is a factor (at least 70). Or some combination of the two.

[shyroman]

Am I wrong in thinking that's a really huge deal? That's so much wasted stat if you stop right before the sweet spot. How is this not more known?

 

Would the alacrity %s for the 1.3 and 1.4 sweet spots be about 14% and 7%, respectively?

 

It's a massive difference. And yes it's so much wasted stats. The exact values are 7.15% and 15.39% but it's probably good to be a bit over that.

[shyroman]

Tried it for myself, seems totally real.

 

One odd thing I've noticed is that I went carnage to put myself in what should put me below 1.3 for that sweet spot. And I do get a lot of GCDs having exactly 1.3s between them but I also have a fairly substantial number that round all the way up to 1.4. Wondering if I'm just shaving the alacrity too close or my ping is a factor (at least 70). Or some combination of the two.

 

Ability lag is a thing and will sometimes negate the benefit.

[yellow_]

It's a massive difference. And yes it's so much wasted stats. The exact values are 7.15% and 15.39% but it's probably good to be a bit over that.

Ok ataru form *barely* puts me the right value, so that probably explains all the 1.4s. But I'm guessing another alac augment or two would fix that. Edited September 29, 2017 by yellow_

[shyroman]

Ok ataru form *barely* puts me the right value, so that probably explains all the 1.4s. But I'm guessing another alac augment or two would fix that.

 

I always run 1850 alacrity in carnage which puts me a bit over 18% which lets me use a more streamlined rotation in pve, I think you need 1700 alacrity to be able to fit 4 abilities into ferocity reliably but some people don't really like that much in pvp.

[yellow_]

I always run 1850 alacrity in carnage which puts me a bit over 18% which lets me use a more streamlined rotation in pve, I think you need 1700 alacrity to be able to fit 4 abilities into ferocity reliably but some people don't really like that much in pvp.

Is dual saber throw's damage calculated sooner after activation than vicious throw's? Because I am quite sure that you can do the vicious throw 4-hit combo with much less alacrity than that, although it requires increasingly precise timing on the clipping as you use less. I wouldn't know about dual saber throw because I consider clipping it in pvp a very low priority for reasons that I don't really see any need to get into here (unless you care to know why I feel that way).

 

As a result of this thread though I am seriously considering dropping a crit enhancement or two just to consistently get that 1.3 second gcd.

[shyroman]

Is dual saber throw's damage calculated sooner after activation than vicious throw's? Because I am quite sure that you can do the vicious throw 4-hit combo with much less alacrity than that, although it requires increasingly precise timing on the clipping as you use less. I wouldn't know about dual saber throw because I consider clipping it in pvp a very low priority for reasons that I don't really see any need to get into here (unless you care to know why I feel that way).

 

As a result of this thread though I am seriously considering dropping a crit enhancement or two just to consistently get that 1.3 second gcd.

 

It's the same timer, I've found that to be consistent (even including ping) that 1700 alacrity works minimum for me (also so I don't have to focus super hard on the exact timing). I always run higher alacrity than that anyway so I don't remember the very minimum that it's possible but it's possible that it's even lower. For pvp I'd only suggest using another alacrity enhancement if you have really good uptime since if you don't then the extra alacrity won't really help much. Some of that can just be playstyle too, whenever I play mara I take as much of the movement enhancing abilities that I can (except reduced cd on mad dash because ruthless aggressor op) so I tend to have very high uptime but I know some that just like to take all the tankier utilities so they don't die as much but their uptime isn't as great.

[merovejec]

I guess I cant delete the thread now that the discussion is on

[Threjyan]

I guess I cant delete the thread now that the discussion is on

 

yep

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/318658/0

 

overperforming m3-r0 and its your fault!

 

time to swap some stats as of today and change spec - something i only used for pvp, now seems pretty viable on pve

[ottffsse]

yep

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/318658/0

 

overperforming m3-r0 and its your fault!

 

time to swap some stats as of today and change spec - something i only used for pvp, now seems pretty viable on pve

 

Yeah and after anni adjustment in a week well ... there's one Mara/Sent to end them all now.

[Eloi_BG]

What is nice about this is they can't really take it away from us. Like, if they fix it to round it up better, it will be be better for everyone. I was also testing right now and looks like the cast time written when channeling an ability is a lie also. Like around 5% and around 8%, both tell me 1.4 sec tho 5% is really 1.5s and the other 1.4s.

 

Also you mind explaining the threshold, I think I just don't know how alacrity works (cause its obviously not 1.5s *(100%-alacrity), since this would make much smaller values to be the threshold).

[shyroman]

What is nice about this is they can't really take it away from us. Like, if they fix it to round it up better, it will be be better for everyone. I was also testing right now and looks like the cast time written when channeling an ability is a lie also. Like around 5% and around 8%, both tell me 1.4 sec tho 5% is really 1.5s and the other 1.4s.

 

Also you mind explaining the threshold, I think I just don't know how alacrity works (cause its obviously not 1.5s *(100%-alacrity), since this would make much smaller values to be the threshold).

 

The equation is 1.5/(1+alacrity%) for the gcd. So if you got to 100% alacrity, it would be twice as fast. The thresholds are when the alacrity % would give the end result to be 1.3 or 1.4.

 

The castbar does in fact round like normal to the nearest tenth so there are spots where the castbar time and the actual time are not the same.

Edited September 29, 2017 by shyroman

[DavidAtkinson]

I heard people saying that alacirty has a cap at 1500 and that anything above that is just a waste...

 

I can also confirm that running a marauder with high alacrity does wonders for your damage and rotation.

[Equeliber]

I heard people saying that alacirty has a cap at 1500 and that anything above that is just a waste...

 

I can also confirm that running a marauder with high alacrity does wonders for your damage and rotation.

 

 

It definitely doesn't have such a cap, that's some completely wrong info.

[Hoppinswtor]

Not too surprised that higher alacrity yields better numbers with Fury due to all the built-in Surge and Autocrits.

[Eloi_BG]

A guildie of mine just got 1st spot in pyro with this after only 5 parses with 16% alac (and he's not using HO, why his APM isn't that high). Top 2 (high alac builds) are a good 2 seconds better than lower alac.

 

I tested IO. Not too sure how much it helps cause my I didn't really parse since 5.3, and barely getting higher APM than top parses (43.2 like, but might be a me issue). This is probably due to the fact 20% of the rotation - unload - was already correctly calculated. Still I think it's good.

 

I still invite everyone interested in the issue to file a bug report. The round-up is not how it should work. Them fixing it to rounding to the closest 0.01s or 0.001s would help everyone's DPS/HPS and allow models like Bant's to be more accurate. In this state there are lots of wasted stats.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Eloi_BG

[ottffsse]

A guildie of mine just got 1st spot in pyro with this after only 5 parses with 16% alac (and he's not using HO, why his APM isn't that high). Top 2 (high alac builds) are a good 2 seconds better than lower alac.

 

I tested IO. Not too sure how much it helps cause my I didn't really parse since 5.3, and barely getting higher APM than top parses (43.2 like, but might be a me issue). This is probably due to the fact 20% of the rotation - unload - was already correctly calculated. Still I think it's good.

 

I still invite everyone interested in the issue to file a bug report. The round-up is not how it should work. Them fixing it to rounding to the closest 0.01s or 0.001s would help everyone's DPS/HPS and allow models like Bant's to be more accurate. In this state there are lots of wasted stats.

 

A quick look at the new top 2.5mil concealment parse at 9,9K looks also like it used the high alac setup but no one confirms, but the apm would suggest it...and it would lend itself to that spec well.

 

However I must note: these are dummy parses. The most difficult PvE boss fights are not ones where you can just camp at boss and pewpew. For those any setup would do really as long as you are geared and keep up apm. The most diffucult PvE boss have a lot of start/stop interruptions hence these high apm setups will probably not outperform traditional crit setups.

Edited September 30, 2017 by ottffsse