Shroud of Memory: Unfair?

[Suzsi]

No. The biggest middle finger to a playerbase in gaming was Star Wars Galaxies Publish 25 AKA "New Game Experience" November 15, 2005.

 

Thats entirely a matter of opinion.

 

SWG was actually really good after they waded through the first issues with the NGE. By the time the game shut down, overall the game play was the best it had ever been -- but too many refused to give it a chance and see where they were headed with it. So many who jump on the nge hate bandwagon didn't stay after the NGE dropped and are hating on the original release of it -- not what it became and how they always intended to take it afterwards.

[JattaGin]

Why is the end of a story you can already begin locked in a subscriber bonus? The Shroud story is one that I found quite compelling, and would've liked to see play out to the end. Not to mention, it's kind of a pain to go through all of that Macrobinocular stuff, only to find out you need a group to finish the quest line. Is it fair to new players, to have them go through all of this, only to find out that there is no conclusion, that there will never be a conclusion?

 

Being one of those who actually have access to the bonus chapter, I fully agree with you. It was one of my first thoughts when I finished the chapter. I like it quite much. It's really funny (the elevator scene is probably my favourite moment of the whole game; I laughed my buttocks off at the first time). But I really didn't understand why they wrapped up one of the game's best storylines in a chapter which many players will never be able to see in-game (unless [putting on tinfoil hat] they always intended to give it away at a later time?).

 

And it's true: It wasn't announced that the HK-chapter is actually about The Shroud. Honestly, if they would have announced that upfront, I'm sure that they would have gotten more remaining subs last year. Tinfoil hat again: I can imagine that they simply didn't know back then that the HK-chapter would be about The Shroud. They maybe just brainstormed that later when they wondered what to do with the chapter.

 

That said: It's not an overly convincing or satisfying conclusion to The Shroud's storyline. Your mental cinema probably has a better ending. Some even refuse to believe that this is the real ending.

 

As for the chapter in general: I would want BW to offer it to all players, BUT it has to be for a very substantial price. I paid 8 months of sub for it. And I had already unsubbed, but the bonus chapter was the reason why I re-subbed before my sub ran out. That means that I actually paid all these months for the HK-chapter. Make it available for 100 Euros or so. It's a ridiculous price, but it's the only way to not p!ss off the players who stayed subbed. I would be upset if they offer it for 20 Euros, to be honest.

 

They will probably make it available to all in around December.

 

What makes you write that? Did you read something on a site we don't talk about here? Wishful thinking? Guess?

 

I hate the white crystals anyway so you may keep those. Red-green I'd be all over. I like my force users to be ghettofabulous.

 

Red-green crystals... hmmm... gradient red-green? That sounds awesome.

Edited September 17, 2017 by JattaGin

[Malphicious]

Yeah I'm with those that say "Oh well" to any who don't have it. I don't care the reason. You accidentally let your sub lapse or you started after it. I made sure to keep mine up for all rewards. If they want to add the chapter so others can play it, they better leave Zoom and Jollo to only those who were subbed. You can have the story, but what was the point if the rewards can later be retrieved by anyone who simply waits it out. Might as well have a vendor on Fleet with every item drop, achievement reward , sub or event reward or solo access to all content you missed for whatever reason. They do that, then I'll maybe consider it being fair to give something away that I took special care to get. Edited September 17, 2017 by Malphicious

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Would it be fair to the people that met the requirements and supported the game during this promotion to now just give it to anyone for <reasons>?

 

As somebody who did meet the requirements and supported the game during that promotion, I don't see how it affects me. Somebody else getting it doesn't affect me at all and it doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the chapter whatsoever. That feeling of exclusivity just isn't there with this, in my opinion. The only thing that really gets it, kinda, is Zeeyo, and they could fix that right up by not including her as a permanent companion for players that didn't originally qualify for the reward.

 

The biggest problem with keeping it "exclusive" is that it's a waste. They spent time developing that content for what amounts to a one time sale. That's just another reason for why it's silly it is to lock single player story content behind a timed subscription gate like that, it's a huge waste of development time to create significant playable content that right out of the gate is limited a small subsection of the playerbase that will get smaller and smaller over time and never increase. Selling it gives them a chance to make more money off the content and get more support for the game. I'm all for that.

[TyonYlle]

Whilst I don't think they'll offer this particular reward again.

Honestly, I'd be willing to pay the full price of the several months subscription to get just the chapter (so, without getting any subscription time, or the other bonuses from having the subscription). Which is a bit absurd for, what, an hour or two of content? The game just doesn't feel complete without it, though.

I think you're the first person that has even suggested they would pay full price for this, I guess this thread puts you above the others, in that you're not just making it whine and hope you get it for free.

 

I have always said that sub rewards, whilst I don't really care for them bc I sub bc I enjoy the game, you shouldn't ever know, or expect to know when they'll come. I'm sure they will have other rewards, like this in the future, but maybe that's bc I give EA literally no credit.

 

With that said, I wouldn't care if they had it up on the CM (for the price of a multi-month sub, ofc) or even if they offered it as a new sub reward. It definitely shouldn't be free, though, like most of these threads are asking. If they put it on the CM, it should be no less than a hypercrate, maybe even a little more than a hypercrate?

[Jeweledleah]

as someone who actualy has the chapter. I hope they sell it directly at some point, the way section x is sold. bonus story should never have been an incentive. it sucks when single player games do it with bonus missions as preorder rewards and it sucks when MMO does it. it. plain. sucks.

 

let them sell it outright and just, I don't know... give us an outfit or bonus cartel coins or something as a replacement.

[Sith-Viscera]

First of all, don't get me wrong; I have no issue with subscriber bonuses not being given out to people who didn't meet the requirements. I don't have a problem with a story being a subscriber bonus. There is something that I do have an issue with, though:

 

Why is the end of a story you can already begin locked in a subscriber bonus? The Shroud story is one that I found quite compelling, and would've liked to see play out to the end. Not to mention, it's kind of a pain to go through all of that Macrobinocular stuff, only to find out you need a group to finish the quest line. Is it fair to new players, to have them go through all of this, only to find out that there is no conclusion, that there will never be a conclusion?

 

If it were just a standalone HK-55 story (as I'm pretty sure it was advertised, no?), I wouldn't really mind. But as it is, preventing people from finishing a story they can freely begin, it just seems a bit unfair.

 

I'm sure there could be a fair enough way to have it available. Perhaps another subscriber bonus, that gives you some token that you take to a vendor, along with a few of all those special vendor currencies (like the things you get from the Shadow of Revan Flashpoints, and the Rakghoul DNA Canisters, the Bounty Contracts, etc.). Something more tedious than getting HK-51. Perhaps something you have to pay for, as well. You know, something that makes those who were subscribed at the time say "I'm glad I don't have to do all that!". I'm sure there's a satisfactory way to do it.

 

Ah, I don't know. It's a shame, is all. I'm kind of torn between thinking it'd be a bit unfair to give it out, but that it'd be a bit unfair to not give it out.

 

"Macrobinocular stuff" I have to agree on this part. I was a little late to this side quest and when i finish it all solo and got to the end, now i need a group. SAY WHAT!? I do not do groups i havent since 6 months after launch. I got tired of waiting long periods of time and then finally getting into a group just to get hassled for stupid crap like? I did things in a different way then the leader and he/she gets pissed and group kicks me out. How did i know what way to do things in? I never did those Ops at that time nor have i ever played with those people, so how is that fair to kick me out? It could of been just as easy to stop and explain to me how they like to do things and i would of said, OK... But Nooo.

 

Any way, Macrobinocular stuff, i get there to the end and bam-o its a group thing now. after 2 months i just caught a couple of people looking to get a group just for that. GREAT! i thought i'll join, so i did. Get to the end of the quest and we killed the boss, every one got their rewards but ME, I didnt receive mine. I made a ticket on it and they said i didnt have the mission in my M-log, um wrong, i did and still do to this day. Also to this very day, I still cant get another group just for that.

 

Just last week i played that mission just my self and a companion. That companion was with the clone of Darth Marr, *yes i cheated and kidnapped him from the the KOTFE Hunt CH 1.* any how, we kept killing hordes after hordes of plague bearers for almost an hour. No matter how i did it, i just couldnt get to all them cells in time b4 the next batch of flesh eaters came out. Almost an hour, i just finally left the quest. Still incomplete.....

 

BW, Its time to make that a Solo FP Mission.

[Malphicious]

"Macrobinocular stuff" I have to agree on this part. I was a little late to this side quest and when i finish it all solo and got to the end, now i need a group. SAY WHAT!? I do not do groups i havent since 6 months after launch. I got tired of waiting long periods of time and then finally getting into a group just to get hassled for stupid crap like? I did things in a different way then the leader and he/she gets pissed and group kicks me out. How did i know what way to do things in? I never did those Ops at that time nor have i ever played with those people, so how is that fair to kick me out? It could of been just as easy to stop and explain to me how they like to do things and i would of said, OK... But Nooo.

 

Any way, Macrobinocular stuff, i get there to the end and bam-o its a group thing now. after 2 months i just caught a couple of people looking to get a group just for that. GREAT! i thought i'll join, so i did. Get to the end of the quest and we killed the boss, every one got their rewards but ME, I didnt receive mine. I made a ticket on it and they said i didnt have the mission in my M-log, um wrong, i did and still do to this day. Also to this very day, I still cant get another group just for that.

 

Just last week i played that mission just my self and a companion. That companion was with the clone of Darth Marr, *yes i cheated and kidnapped him from the the KOTFE Hunt CH 1.* any how, we kept killing hordes after hordes of plague bearers for almost an hour. No matter how i did it, i just couldnt get to all them cells in time b4 the next batch of flesh eaters came out. Almost an hour, i just finally left the quest. Still incomplete.....

 

BW, Its time to make that a Solo FP Mission.

 

OMG I wish I remembered what I did on this one. It was hard not gonna lie, but I did solo it. Something to do with being in the cell and staying out of LOS. Can't remember and it's killing me. I remember being on the left side inside cell, and running to the back of it then easing my way to spot just behind a generator or something to stay far enough away to not aggro while they roamed out front of cell. That was just before 4.0 while waiting on it to drop. Can be done. Just keep at it. You'll be shocked when you do get it done and find it went way easier than it had been before you figured it out. Totally wish I could remember exactly. It's one of those "Oooh, oooh, I know" moments but then you got nothing.

[Transcendent]

It was advertised as an exclusive perk to those who were subscribed for the specified periods.

 

The problem with that, is that is was advertised as a perk which involved HK-whatevernumberitis (the rubbish one). If they had actually advertised it as an extension of The Shroud storyline? Which is essentially what it was about, then we wouldn't be seeing any of these topics pop up about it.

 

Essentially it's BioWare being utterly atrocious at marketing something properly from the start. It certainly isn't something that can be pinned on players who simply were not impressed with the whole HK themed "rewards". I myself saw the rewards being based around HK and deliberately chose to unsubscribe because they were underwhelming (as was most of 4.0 to be honest). If it had been advertised as a chapter involving The Shroud storyline? I'd have kept my subscription running.

 

Plain and simple, bad marketing.

[CrazyCT]

The problem with that, is that is was advertised as a perk which involved HK-whatevernumberitis (the rubbish one). If they had actually advertised it as an extension of The Shroud storyline? Which is essentially what it was about, then we wouldn't be seeing any of these topics pop up about it.

 

Essentially it's BioWare being utterly atrocious at marketing something properly from the start. It certainly isn't something that can be pinned on players who simply were not impressed with the whole HK themed "rewards". I myself saw the rewards being based around HK and deliberately chose to unsubscribe because they were underwhelming (as was most of 4.0 to be honest). If it had been advertised as a chapter involving The Shroud storyline? I'd have kept my subscription running.

 

Plain and simple, bad marketing.

 

So...the rest of the game ISN'T worth the subscription, but a single ~20 minute quest is worth 7 months subscription? Interesting.

[jedip_enguin]

I've not even played through SoM yet, is it worth the time?

[Alssaran]

So...the rest of the game ISN'T worth the subscription, but a single ~20 minute quest is worth 7 months subscription? Interesting.

 

If you ask me, nothing in this game during the past eight months is worth of a subscription. Many people probably leave their subscription running just because.

 

There's a more important point though: At no point in any written aggrement or form is the HK chapter advertised as "subscriber exclusive." "But," I hear you say, but nope. Here's the KotFE website in a spoiler. It's quite a long point.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/chapters

 

The bonus chapter text reads this: "FREE TO ALL CONTINUOUS SUBSCRIBERS FROM JAN 11 – AUG 1**"

 

Appendix **: To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

 

At no point in either of those statements does it make an exclusivity clear or apparent. That is corporate America. The wording is specifically chosen to give the chapter as a free reward to subscribers, but at the same time leave the door open to release it in a future update and claim plausible deniability by establishing that the "qualification" they issued is only to receive the chapter for free, but did not establish an exclusivity to the chapter as a whole.

 

Interestingly enough, the Kakkran Daggerstar was the same. The mount was first made accessible as a subscriber reward between the release of Ziost and KotFE. Essentially, I paid money for this mount during a time with no content releases to receive a mount. Later on, they made it accessible as part of the SWTOR deluxe bundle for 29.99€ on Origin.

 

The funny thing is that this pack's price to rewards ratio is even better than subscribing individually for the mount. Back then I received 500 CC (roughly 4€) and the mount for it. Right now, I'd get the mount, a thousand bonus CC (9€), a thousand subscription CC (9€), and two months of subscription for 29.99€. The two subscriptions and subscription CC alone would be 27.98€ under normal circumstances, so I'd get a thousand bonus CC for 2.02€. They usually cost around 9€. The price to rewards ratio for the Deluxe Pack is even better than normal subscription, even if just slightly.

 

Where's the outcry? Where's the angry unsubscriptions that they made an exclusive subscriber reward available for spending real money on it, and at such a good price to reward ratio?

 

https://torf.mmo-fashion.com/kakkran-daggerstar/

 

Where are all the people who shouted "that they will never subscribe for a reward again if they ever do this?"

 

 

The second point is that the advertisement for the chapter was, seriously, quite horrible. They always advertised it as a HK bonus chapter. They never mentioned The Shroud, an exclusive companion, or anything of the sort until it was way too late to subscribe for the entire period.

 

Not to mention that the idea of gating the conclusion of an ongoing story behind a limited subscriber reward is a horrible idea. If this was just HK doing some crazy **** for twenty minutes, I doubt many people would care. Z0 isn't all that great compared to some other companions, and a big appeal of the chapter is The Shroud's involvement. But gating the conclusion of a story that has been going on since long before subscriber rewards were even a thing behind a limited time subscription is complete bollocks.

 

I mean, where's the logic in it? The story began in RotHC, and it had some hints during SoR and early SF content. Someone who left during late SoR, but might still be familiar with that story can never finish it now. It's complete nonsense.

 

If this chapter was indeed only HK-55 doing some shenanigans, fewer people would mind, but gating the conclusion of a long-going story behind a limited subscriber reward long after that expansion, and without mentioning said character is even involved in the chapter before the time limit is over to subscribe? That's bad marketing. Remember that you had to be subscribed continuously from January to August. We didn't even know there was a companion and the Shroud in that chapter until April or May of said year. That meant the deadline to subscribe for the Shroud was already over.

 

It's bad marketing.

[CrazyCT]

I didn't find that it was bad marketing at all. I saw they were giving an extra bonus chapter, so I stayed subscribed. You didn't think it was worth it, and unsubscribed and saved yourself some money. Now, you think it's unfair that I paid and you didn't? We both knew what the prize was, but you didn't want it. Now you know you can't have it, it's causing you grief.

 

If you knew that sticking in at school would have given you a better job, and you decide to slack off and have fun instead, are you allowed to pay some money and go back in time to start over?

 

Oh, and as for this "exclusive" thing people keep bringing up -

 

To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016.

 

MUST not SHOULD, if you are unclear.

Edited September 17, 2017 by CrazyCT

[SolarSaenz]

First of all, don't get me wrong; I have no issue with subscriber bonuses not being given out to people who didn't meet the requirements. I don't have a problem with a story being a subscriber bonus. There is something that I do have an issue with, though:

 

Why is the end of a story you can already begin locked in a subscriber bonus? The Shroud story is one that I found quite compelling, and would've liked to see play out to the end. Not to mention, it's kind of a pain to go through all of that Macrobinocular stuff, only to find out you need a group to finish the quest line. Is it fair to new players, to have them go through all of this, only to find out that there is no conclusion, that there will never be a conclusion?

 

If it were just a standalone HK-55 story (as I'm pretty sure it was advertised, no?), I wouldn't really mind. But as it is, preventing people from finishing a story they can freely begin, it just seems a bit unfair.

 

I'm sure there could be a fair enough way to have it available. Perhaps another subscriber bonus, that gives you some token that you take to a vendor, along with a few of all those special vendor currencies (like the things you get from the Shadow of Revan Flashpoints, and the Rakghoul DNA Canisters, the Bounty Contracts, etc.). Something more tedious than getting HK-51. Perhaps something you have to pay for, as well. You know, something that makes those who were subscribed at the time say "I'm glad I don't have to do all that!". I'm sure there's a satisfactory way to do it.

 

Ah, I don't know. It's a shame, is all. I'm kind of torn between thinking it'd be a bit unfair to give it out, but that it'd be a bit unfair to not give it out.

 

You are right with respect to the fact that a continuation of a story should not be locked behind a time sensitive subscriber reward. Maybe, a stand alone, self contained story can be locked behind a time sensitive subscriber reward, maybe, but I still don't really like that.

 

They could have and should have gone a different route. Either, the hk-55 story should have been a stand alone, self contained story. In the beginning, I thought it was going to be about hk-55 going on a mission impossible-esq quest related to the GEMINI droids and/or Eternal Fleet ships or something along those lines.

 

They took a really cool villain, the Shroud, and

made him into a joke, Iron Man 3 style, which to be honest was kinda humorous. But, I don't know if I like the idea of the Shroud being "rectonned" into something goofy.

 

 

I am in favor of a FF14 style of subscriber rewards. So, if they wanted to lock story behind subscriber rewards, do something like "stay subscribed for 6 consecutive months, and you will unlock this extra, side story, not critical for the main story".

 

But, I personally am opposed to giving people another chance to get the hk55 bonus chapter. The deal was "be subscribed from x date to y date, and you get the hk55 bonus chapter." I feel this way because, if they don't stick with those terms, it will make BW even less credible than they already are. It's not about those who qualified for the hk55 bonus chapter feeling special. It's about BW honoring their agreement. Even if there was some asterisk (*) in the terms that said something along the lines of "we reserve the right to offer this again if we feel like it", it would still be a mark against BW to pull a "read the fine print" act.

 

But, past subscriber rewards SHOULD have been done ff14 style, and future subscriber rewards should be done that way too......except there haven't been any subscriber rewards since 5.0's release. I guess they ran out of ideas for rewards.

[Transcendent]

So...the rest of the game ISN'T worth the subscription, but a single ~20 minute quest is worth 7 months subscription? Interesting.

 

To be fair, that puts it slightly out of context Crazy. 4.0 was simply story chapters furthering KotFE, I made my decision based on the following;

 

- KotFE was primarily written for force user classes (I main a bounty hunter), and it wasn't really that good due to that.

- There was no substantial group content being released during 4.0 (Operations etc etc.)

- Objections to Level Sync / dumbing down the game / undoing some great work by the original developers of the game among other reasons....

- Strong dislike of HK-55 (so why would I retain my subscription for more unspecified things based on HK-55???)

 

However if they had advertised the story chapter as being focused on The Shroud? Yeah, I probably would have kept my subscription running, regardless of whether I was playing at that time. They didn't let players even know what the rewards were going to be in advance, knowing BioWare's track record here.....

 

It really is simply a case of bad marketing.

[Jeweledleah]

also... some perspective and a reminder. Nar Shadaa stronghold. was a subscriber reward and it was advertized much like the HK chapter. stay subscribed and get certain number of rooms for free.

 

but its not exclusive. people can still buy it. they just have to... buy it. subscribers during the reward period get 3 (or 5 depending on when you first subscribed) rooms unlocked free of additional charge.

 

Shroud of memory should work the same way. if you were a subscriber back then? its unlocked automatically, once you reach that part of the story. and if you are not? you can STILL BUY IT. directly.

 

story. should NOT. be a timed exclusive. EVER.

[Tsillah]

People were asking BW for veteran awards to show appreciation to those who actually had been paying for the game.

 

Instead they came out with rewards for people who stayed subs. So no appreciation for veterans at all. A prime example of how BW doesn't get what people ask for.

 

When it became clear that there was going to be a bit of story as a sub exclusive at that time, a lot of people already indicated that this was probably a bad idea. Didn't stop em.

 

But then it didn't stop them with Galactic Command either and really I could go on.

 

What can I say? It was a bad idea to do it like that. On the other hand, the conclusion of it was a real letdown so maybe you're better off for it.

[TikkyLightmaker]

On the other hand, the conclusion of it was a real letdown so maybe you're better off for it.

 

When i figured out that this thread was mostly about missing out on the end of the Shroud story, i kinda felt the same as you. For all the intrigue and mystery of the Shroud, it all ends in a rather wimsey way.

 

It's almost like having ....

oh, i dunno...

Lord Of the Rings end with a post-script of Sauron being defeated because he slurped a slushie too fast, got brain freeze and wrecked his mind.

[Transcendent]

A prime example of how BW doesn't get what people ask for.

 

Standard BioWare practice it seems. I really hope they get out of their mindset of "they asked for this, let's improve upon that and give them this instead", when the reality ends up being nothing like what is being asked for.

[Alssaran]

I didn't find that it was bad marketing at all. I saw they were giving an extra bonus chapter, so I stayed subscribed.

 

It was bad marketing in context of what was in the chapter and the actual rewards themselves for a number of reasons.

 

First of all, they never really articulated what was in the chapter. The chapter was always marketed as a "HK bonus chapter." The January 11 cut-off date went by. February and March went by. Only in April to May did we find out that the chapter would contain an exclusive companion. And only a few weeks before release did we find out it was a soft conclusion to The Shroud's storyline. Here's the thing: The Shroud's storyline was started way before KotFE in RotHC. It was an ongoing story, and it was one of the more favourable stories of post-vanilla.

 

Had they communicated this fact before the cut-off date, no matter how unreasonable gating the conclusion of an unrelated story in a mandatory subscriber DLC might be, more people might have taken favourably to subscribing for the entire period. They only communicated the fact that it contained the Shroud long after the initial period for subscription started, and thus locked people out of experiencing the conclusion of an ongoing story.

 

Secondly, people wanted veteran rewards like FFXIV and SWG has/had them. Most other MMORPGs handle veteran/subscriber rewards like this: You have to be subscribed for a number of days to unlock more rewards. If I subscribe a total of sixty days across my entire "career", I might receive a pet. 120 days and I get a mount. An entire year and I receive a costume. That is the kind of subscriber rewards people wanted. Instead, Bioware opted to make their subscriber reward program a "forced subscriber retention" thing. They always tied their offers to periods of no content development/release or when the release of content was so "thin" that they were afraid people wouldn't swallow it. They offered the first program during the summer months of 2015. Ziost released in April, and KotFE came in October. The subscriber retention program ran from July to August to substitute the summer months.

 

The second retention program started with KotFE. We pointed out a flaw with their "subscribe once and get all chapters" plan in combination with no MMO content from the get go: If there is no content to warrant the additional 95€, people would just subscribe once in August to get the entire story and be done. In a last ditch attempt to negate this issue, Bioware hastily created subscriber rewards to try and catch the fallout of their plan.

 

Third of all, people were completely tired of HK after a few months. HK was an awesome character in KOTOR, and his subsequent incarnation in SWTOR (HK-51) was well received. Then they introduced HK-55 and it became somewhat of a meme. Tons of rewards with HK themes that nobody asked for or wanted. From oversized weapons, to jetpacks, to masks, to ship-droid paintjobs and posters. We basically became HK fanboys by the end of the marketing campaign. People were simply not enticed by another HK themed reward at the end of it. HK was a "meme" character with comedy punchlines at that point.

 

I might have gone into too much detail there, but I hope you get the point. The entire thing was just poorly handled, including the HK chapter.

 

Story should never have been gated inaccessibly behind such a retention program in a story focused game that desperately needed more story to live up to the name. The fact that they gated a fan-favourite storyline's conclusion behind this paywall without telling us in time was even worse.

 

And the worst part is that some people want to hug that conclusion now, despite many other people starting the storyline years ago. The end of a storyline that was started by everyone years ago should be accessible to everyone down the road. Imagine they started the Revan story in SoR and didn't finish it, but then made the "final" final fight against him and the last conversation part of a subscriber reward, and they don't tell you about it in time for you to qualify, even if you decide to pursue the reward to finish the Revan story.

 

The Austin under Ben had this weird habit of reading what people wanted and then trying to improve it, but making it worse in the process. We told them (Ben) it was a bad idea to handle it like this. He/they didn't listen, and now we're still dealing with these discussions. We told him GC as it was introduced in November was a bad idea. He still went through with it. Yes, they are trying to fix it, and he made a good point about why change wasn't possible that late, but a proper beta test would've taken care of the issue.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Alssaran

[Andryah]

Third of all, people were completely tired of HK after a few months. HK was an awesome character in KOTOR, and his subsequent incarnation in SWTOR (HK-51) was well received. Then they introduced HK-55 and it became somewhat of a meme. Tons of rewards with HK themes that nobody asked for or wanted. From oversized weapons, to jetpacks, to masks, to ship-droid paintjobs and posters. We basically became HK fanboys by the end of the marketing campaign. People were simply not enticed by another HK themed reward at the end of it. HK was a "meme" character with comedy punchlines at that point.

 

I might have gone into too much detail there, but I hope you get the point. The entire thing was just poorly handled, including the HK chapter.

 

Story should never have been gated inaccessibly behind such a retention program in a story focused game that desperately needed more story to live up to the name. The fact that they gated a fan-favourite storyline's conclusion behind this paywall without telling us in time was even worse.

 

Not an HK fan and never have been. It was not what motivated me to continue to sub. I simply do not fall for perks like this. I either enjoy an MMO and continue to subscribe, or I go do or play something else.

 

That said.. I am really glad I did not drop sub during the promotion window as I love Z0-0M as a companion.

 

As for story... disappointing, acceptable, etc..... meh... I've seen good story and not so good story in SWTOR. Since I have absolutely no control over story production, nor have they asked me for input.. If I like a story a play it through carefully and completely so I don't miss anything. If I don't like the story... Mr_Spacebar can be applied at any time for as long as needed. Sorry.. but there is nothing sacred about story in my view, even in SWTOR from Bioware.

 

I honestly feel you are reacting way too strongly here about what is a disconnected and inconsequential piece of story that does not tie into any of the more persistent story arcs in game.. precisely because it was constructed and released as part of a subscription retention promotion.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Andryah

[IoNonSoEVero]

Without getting into the debate again over whether it should be made available, IMHO Bioware really boxed themselves into a corner with it. Because the chapter is available to only some players, HK-55 has to *officially* stay dead and cannot be incorporated back into the larger story. If they'd made the Shroud of Memory another story chapter for everyone it could have filled the space between KOTFE and KOTET and HK-55 could have returned for all.

 

I mean...can you imagine HK-55's reaction to Iokath? That would have been a trip to see.

 

IMHO story chapters should never be released as a subscriber perk. Ever. Give people mounts, crystals, non-story companions, pets, decos, rare armor, a free Stronghold - but not something that can actually affect the story or one of the story's central companions.

[Sareeph]

Without getting into the debate again over whether it should be made available, IMHO Bioware really boxed themselves into a corner with it. Because the chapter is available to only some players, HK-55 has to *officially* stay dead and cannot be incorporated back into the larger story. If they'd made the Shroud of Memory another story chapter for everyone it could have filled the space between KOTFE and KOTET and HK-55 could have returned for all.

 

I mean...can you imagine HK-55's reaction to Iokath? That would have been a trip to see.

 

IMHO story chapters should never be released as a subscriber perk. Ever. Give people mounts, crystals, non-story companions, pets, decos, rare armor, a free Stronghold - but not something that can actually affect the story or one of the story's central companions.

 

55 came back for all via another quest not related to the Bonus chapter in any way. Not sure why you think he has to "Stay" dead because people didn't get the bonus HK mission.

[YlliyaXor]

55 came back for all via another quest not related to the Bonus chapter in any way. Not sure why you think he has to "Stay" dead because people didn't get the bonus HK mission.

 

Not for all, only for those subbed in January 2016, if you subbed in any other month you obviously don't deserve to have HK55.

[Jeweledleah]

55 came back for all via another quest not related to the Bonus chapter in any way. Not sure why you think he has to "Stay" dead because people didn't get the bonus HK mission.

 

uh.. did he now? becasue I'm pretty sure HK 55 is ALSO a subscription bonus reward. you cannot get him if you weren't a player or subscriber at the time when he was offered as a bonus. I'm having a Nico Okar dejavu here with people insisting that everyone could get him, when it was patently false.

 

edited.. and the reply above me confirms it.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Jeweledleah