Why Was Oricon Never Made Solo-Friendly?

[Ahbal]

What it should or should not be is entirely your opinion, obviously.

 

There's quite an amount of us who play exclusively for the solo content. If there's not enough people to do the ops, have you considered it may be because people actually prefer not to group?

 

What are you suggesting, to force them to group? If the mode has to die out, just because people choose something different, then that is darwinism mate, adapt or die. Players must have the right to CHOOSE what they want to do, period.

 

The problem is not solo content killing the game, that is ridiculous. Remove or stop pumping solo content (story content) and you'll see how long more this game stays alive. The problem is actually raiders who think they are the center of the galaxy, that the main focus should be group content and that everything which is not what they want, "it's killing the game".

 

Have you considered that maybe raider are more of a minority than you think? have you considered that solo players are currently the largest portion of the playerbase? No right, no. Just like most of riders, you think you are the select elite who deserves everything tailored for you. You get to see the solo content and the ops content, but a solo player doesnt get to see the ops content if he doesnt put up with people, otherwise he wont see that content ever.

 

If people choose, and they mostly prefer to do stuff solo, then deal with it. Ops are not the main focus of this game, assume it and move on, which considering you have unsubbed then you have moved on, hard to say if we take into account that you still can post here.

 

The raiders are the minority because they have left now. All that remain are players who grind dailies and warzones. You are not taking into account players who have already left. Next, I am not a raider, nice assumption though. I main PvP and have done some raids but I do not consider myself a raider at all. I am in this thread because, ironically, solo players want the game tailored to them (10-20% of the game is "tailored" to ops, I think its fair raiders ask for more) when it already has been for 2 years. Seriously. 2 years of solo content and they want to go back and have Oricon solo too? Do you not realise that the dread master story is in a whole series of operations, not just 2??

 

You also mention "darwinism" (ironically) yet you want group content to be dumbed down so a solo player who is afraid to group can do them on their own? lol. You dont have to "put up" with people. Its called making friends. If you cannot make friends in an mmo, "adapt or die, dawrinism mate". Guilds make this easy. Very easy. Some even have strict rules to ensure the Ops go smoothly without any problems within the group like in groud finder/Pugs. Funny how bring up darwinism but want the game dumbed down for people who are socially inept. Boohoo you cannot access 20% or so of the game because you are afraid of interacting with people who might "hurt" you (when that doesn't really happen much at all to begin with). Guess what, the real world is the same, get used to it.

[Ahbal]

It is a main story.

 

The Dread Master served as the main story after your class story's ending. Even Makeb's Hutt Cartel were manipulated by them.

 

This is a MMO, but MMO is not about YOU MUST GROUP but you have the option to group for better rewards.

 

I get what you mean, but it involves an entire set of operations. If you care so much about the story you would have found a guild by now who will take you through it. Like, me, I only wanted the story. So the guild I was in at the time (who did HM Ops for conquest and such) ran SM for the whole lineup for me and a few others who wanted the story (this was pre Shadow of revan). At the time I was a solo player due to not having a sub, so I bought an Ops pass off the gtn and went through the ops with them. It was fun of course.

 

Have you not thought that maybe doing it solo wont make sense or wont be as meaningful? I mean, the Ops itself involves killing the whole council of dread masters at once (fight all of them at the same time!)....It is awesome as a group of 8 or 16, but if it was solo it would not be the same.

 

Edit: Also, forgot to mention OPs mechanics. The op will have to be redesigned for them to work in solo mode.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Ahbal

[fushnchips]

the raiders are the minority because they have left now. All that remain are players who grind dailies and warzones. You are not taking into account players who have already left. Next, i am not a raider, nice assumption though. I main pvp and have done some raids but i do not consider myself a raider at all. I am in this thread because, ironically, solo players want the game tailored to them (10-20% of the game is "tailored" to ops, i think its fair raiders ask for more) when it already has been for 2 years. Seriously. 2 years of solo content and they want to go back and have oricon solo too? Do you not realise that the dread master story is in a whole series of operations, not just 2??

 

You also mention "darwinism" (ironically) yet you want group content to be dumbed down so a solo player who is afraid to group can do them on their own? Lol. You dont have to "put up" with people. Its called making friends. If you cannot make friends in an mmo, "adapt or die, dawrinism mate". Guilds make this easy. Very easy. Some even have strict rules to ensure the ops go smoothly without any problems within the group like in groud finder/pugs. Funny how bring up darwinism but want the game dumbed down for people who are socially inept. Boohoo you cannot access 20% or so of the game because you are afraid of interacting with people who might "hurt" you (when that doesn't really happen much at all to begin with). Guess what, the real world is the same, get used to it.

 

perfect

[Ahbal]

perfect

 

Thank you

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The raiders are the minority because they have left now. All that remain are players who grind dailies and warzones. You are not taking into account players who have already left. Next, I am not a raider, nice assumption though. I main PvP and have done some raids but I do not consider myself a raider at all. I am in this thread because, ironically, solo players want the game tailored to them (10-20% of the game is "tailored" to ops, I think its fair raiders ask for more) when it already has been for 2 years. Seriously. 2 years of solo content and they want to go back and have Oricon solo too? Do you not realise that the dread master story is in a whole series of operations, not just 2??

 

You also mention "darwinism" (ironically) yet you want group content to be dumbed down so a solo player who is afraid to group can do them on their own? lol. You dont have to "put up" with people. Its called making friends. If you cannot make friends in an mmo, "adapt or die, dawrinism mate". Guilds make this easy. Very easy. Some even have strict rules to ensure the Ops go smoothly without any problems within the group like in groud finder/Pugs. Funny how bring up darwinism but want the game dumbed down for people who are socially inept. Boohoo you cannot access 20% or so of the game because you are afraid of interacting with people who might "hurt" you (when that doesn't really happen much at all to begin with). Guess what, the real world is the same, get used to it.

 

I always tended to agree that Oricon should have remained as operation only content solely because there was a large enough population to support it for at least a year after it launched. I almost always pugged (mostly due to a non US timezone and inability to keep a schedule due to life) and rarely ever had any problem what so ever getting a group and doing the content each and every week.

 

There was really no excuse to not be able to do the story other than a pure refusal to actually doing group content.

 

Now though things are a lot different as it's actually a lot more difficult to find a group to run through the content to the point it's nearly impossible for me to pug (I've tried making my own a few months back and that was when the game had more people playing, I assume looking at population trend it's worse now). What groups do tend to form are farming groups for the easier operations.

Now of course that doesn't concern me too much as I've been there and done that and a solo type mode would be nothing more than a passing interest for me to take my time and explore the operation fully but it does raise the point there is a lot of content gated off from people who will not/cannot get groups that could possibly be made more accessible to give a lot more game time play to them these days.

 

Personally I would prefer they focus on new content but if it wasn't a massive undertaking to achieve a solo type mode (or at least reduced group size) then it could certainly have big benefits.

 

I also feel it would have to be a solo mode of the operation itself, not a "here is this boss - beat him with your god mode and consider the story done" that we got with SoR that really ruined the entire thing imo.

That is it would need to be VERY difficult to solo and required BiS etc. plus many repeated attempts and then scale in difficulty depending on group size (getting easier as you had more people but not being an utter cakewalk where you cannot die even if you try as I did with Revan the other day ... damn being virtually invulnerable is a drag in this game now).

 

That is how I see a solo option working anyway for old group content. Make it very difficult (but not impossible of course) to encourage people to group but have it there to be done in any case.

 

One thing I personally really detest in gaming is the dumbing down of the gameplay itself to the point it's just too easy and coincidence in this game is it all happens to be solo content.

Kotfe was like this, kotet I could turn up the difficulty at least. Level sync should have fixed this for me but turned out to be an utter waste of time (to the point they should have made it optional and made a more harsh sync for those of us who wanted it on) as it's still just too easy.

Sure I can actively make the game more difficult myself by nerfing myself (more trouble than it's worth to be honest) but I honestly can't be bothered for content I've been there and done that for ... just sucks that a lot of the game has been made so easy now that it's lost it's charm and ability to actually feel like a game in some regards.

 

I don't blame solo play for this at all though ... but there is definitely an aspect of the community that get their knickers in a twist anytime anything gets slightly too difficult and expects everything to be god mode easy which to me seems stupid because it actually gets boring, reduces the longevity of the content and solely so they can grind it out numerous times a little faster?

This was demonstrated during the level sync discussions or companion nerf discussions and I'm sure a lot of those who were vehementy opposed to anything that made parts of the game a little more difficult have moved on because they got bored of the game (from being able to do it all so easily and quickly).

[Ahbal]

I always tended to agree that Oricon should have remained as operation only content solely because there was a large enough population to support it for at least a year after it launched. I almost always pugged (mostly due to a non US timezone and inability to keep a schedule due to life) and rarely ever had any problem what so ever getting a group and doing the content each and every week.

 

There was really no excuse to not be able to do the story other than a pure refusal to actually doing group content.

 

Now though things are a lot different as it's actually a lot more difficult to find a group to run through the content to the point it's nearly impossible for me to pug (I've tried making my own a few months back and that was when the game had more people playing, I assume looking at population trend it's worse now). What groups do tend to form are farming groups for the easier operations.

Now of course that doesn't concern me too much as I've been there and done that and a solo type mode would be nothing more than a passing interest for me to take my time and explore the operation fully but it does raise the point there is a lot of content gated off from people who will not/cannot get groups that could possibly be made more accessible to give a lot more game time play to them these days.

 

Personally I would prefer they focus on new content but if it wasn't a massive undertaking to achieve a solo type mode (or at least reduced group size) then it could certainly have big benefits.

 

I also feel it would have to be a solo mode of the operation itself, not a "here is this boss - beat him with your god mode and consider the story done" that we got with SoR that really ruined the entire thing imo.

That is it would need to be VERY difficult to solo and required BiS etc. plus many repeated attempts and then scale in difficulty depending on group size (getting easier as you had more people but not being an utter cakewalk where you cannot die even if you try as I did with Revan the other day ... damn being virtually invulnerable is a drag in this game now).

 

That is how I see a solo option working anyway for old group content. Make it very difficult (but not impossible of course) to encourage people to group but have it there to be done in any case.

 

One thing I personally really detest in gaming is the dumbing down of the gameplay itself to the point it's just too easy and coincidence in this game is it all happens to be solo content.

Kotfe was like this, kotet I could turn up the difficulty at least. Level sync should have fixed this for me but turned out to be an utter waste of time (to the point they should have made it optional and made a more harsh sync for those of us who wanted it on) as it's still just too easy.

Sure I can actively make the game more difficult myself by nerfing myself (more trouble than it's worth to be honest) but I honestly can't be bothered for content I've been there and done that for ... just sucks that a lot of the game has been made so easy now that it's lost it's charm and ability to actually feel like a game in some regards.

 

I don't blame solo play for this at all though ... but there is definitely an aspect of the community that get their knickers in a twist anytime anything gets slightly too difficult and expects everything to be god mode easy which to me seems stupid because it actually gets boring, reduces the longevity of the content and solely so they can grind it out numerous times a little faster?

This was demonstrated during the level sync discussions or companion nerf discussions and I'm sure a lot of those who were vehementy opposed to anything that made parts of the game a little more difficult have moved on because they got bored of the game (from being able to do it all so easily and quickly).

 

I entirely agree with you. I am also from a non U.S timezone (Australia) so ever since 4.0 its been a struggle to do group content. The main problem now is the lack of people running these Ops, which IMO is the best argument FOR the solo mode atm. Fact of the matter is, as youve shown, it is very difficult to get Ops together even when you really want to (depends on the sever, so higher pop ones should be fine?). Ironically, it is indeed due to the Solo focus of the last 2 years. Swtor has always been around 50% or more solo, then around 30% flashpoints, then the rest OPs (like 20% or so, all these percentages are in terms of story). Now though, it is 80% solo, 15% FP, then less than 5% OPs (how long as it been since we got a full OP?) Seriously...I find it crazy that solo players can dare say that raiders want everything catered to them...when they've had nothing for two years....

[Saurat]

I don't want to spend time to find 7 other ppl, waiting for them to all come, endure all the afk/drama and focus on the fighting instead of story.

 

Especially since SWTOR has strict trinity requirement.

 

main reason why i hesistate to do ops...1. i never been to them and would likely get kicked/harrassed for watching every cutscene instead of smashing spacebar, 2. i play Marksman Discipline Sniper...basically grinding out crates until i'm mostly 248 before i attempt them...

[SirUrza]

Why the jeff does it still say heroic 4 on it then......oh right, Biower. Guess I'll do it then.

 

Because you need a group to complete the bonus in there still I would guess.

[Euphrosyne]

Because you need a group to complete the bonus in there still I would guess.

Nope. That's soloable, too.

[Ylliarus]

You also mention "darwinism" (ironically) yet you want group content to be dumbed down so a solo player who is afraid to group can do them on their own? lol. You dont have to "put up" with people. Its called making friends. If you cannot make friends in an mmo, "adapt or die, dawrinism mate". Guilds make this easy. Very easy. Some even have strict rules to ensure the Ops go smoothly without any problems within the group like in groud finder/Pugs. Funny how bring up darwinism but want the game dumbed down for people who are socially inept. Boohoo you cannot access 20% or so of the game because you are afraid of interacting with people who might "hurt" you (when that doesn't really happen much at all to begin with). Guess what, the real world is the same, get used to it.

 

This is exactly the attitude that will keep us fighting. It's this poisonous way of thinking that will keep up the delusional barrier of "us vs them". Are you so blind and oblivious to the fact that should you support our requests for once we might support yours for more group content? Not all would really be interested in more group content but because you had fostered goodwill we'd stand with you because we know it's something you want. Instead you choose to turn us against you. Why are you so arrogant and persist in your faultive way of thinking that your group content-focus style of playing this game is superior to any other way of playing?

 

Also who the heck talked about content being dumbed down? Did anyone ask for that? Did anyone hint at that? A solo alternative was being asked, no more no less. Get off your high horse and read what is being said properly, because now you're simply spitting on other players who don't play the way you do and that is rather immature.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Euphrosyne]

I have to agree with the viewpoint - already expressed in this thread - that since the Dread Master story arc was primarily told through operations in the first place, it should remain as operations. If all you do is solo play, the Dread Master story doesn't make much sense. You see them on Belsavis, but only as an Imperial, and then you don't get wind of them until the middle of the Dread War with a ferocious battle on Oricon. If there's a payoff to the story, it's in following it through from the hints about Eternity Vault and Karagga's invasions through the war on Denova and the hypergate crisis up to killing Styrak on Darvannis. And that requires playing operations. All Oricon is, to the people who played solo, is a dailies area. There's a story there, but it doesn't really exist in reference to them.

 

(I mean, if you can watch a YouTube clip of Moff Orlec explaining what went down on Darvannis, to learn the background behind the Dread War, you can presumably watch a YouTube clip of Maiya Vix and Lord Hargrev talking about what's to be done now that the Dread Masters are gone. And if you don't care enough about the story to do the former, why do you care about it enough to want to be able to get the latter in-game?)

 

It'd be kind of interesting if they had made a Revan-in-SoR sort of fight for the Dread Council on Oricon for solo players. I can see why they didn't, of course. It's some amount of dev resources toward something that is not really a priority; it's not a main storyline, and it pretty much would only exist to mitigate the salt from people who get annoyed about having an unfinished quest in their log. (This was also the source of much complaining about the Forex/Pierce Alliance Alerts in KotFE.) It's fine to claim that the game was designed to be solo-friendly and that it was billed as a sort of KotOR III, but it's a long way between acknowledging that and agreeing that the operations-heavy Oricon side story arc that only made a brief intersection with solo play needs to be restructured because of it. Class stories and the main RotHC-SoR-KotFE-KotET arc are one thing; Oricon is something else.

 

Also, the idea behind the Revan fight was nice, but the implementation has often been mocked. You can basically afk most of the fight while Marr, Satele, and the rest whittle Revan down. Meh. It's not quite the same as dodging aberrations, getting around Trail of Agony, or fighting off the droid adds.

 

I mean, I guess it's fine that people want this. I just don't see it ever happening, I don't particularly want it to happen (although I won't protest much if it does), and I think that the results would be very underwhelming if it ever did happen.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Euphrosyne

[Ahbal]

This is exactly the attitude that will keep us fighting. It's this poisonous way of thinking that will keep up the delusional barrier of "us vs them". Are you so blind and oblivious to the fact that should you support out requests for once we might support yours for more group content? Why are you so arrogant and persist in your faultive way of thinking that your group content-focus style of playing this game is superior to any other way of playing?

 

Wow another assumption! Get off your high horse. Youve had solo content for 2 years. Stop acting like you would support group content, that is a blatant lie. Solo players have been getting what they want for 2 years. If your premise was true, you would have been asking for a new OP by now. Next. how am I being arrogant? I am simply pointing out hypocrisy here, in that persons post. I made it clear in another post swtor had a great balance before between solo/FP/OP content. But now it is mostly solo with literally no OP in the last 2 years. If you think solo players still need "supporting" it is YOU that is arrogant. It is YOU that is toxic. I stuck by during these last few years of solo dominant content "supporting" what you wanted, hoping we would get group/social focused content. But no. As demonstrated by your post, solo players literally want the whole game to be solo. Going into old content, and wanting it CONVERTED for SOLO play, instead of sitting back thinking "hey we have had 2 years of solo content, what about the OPs players?". But no, clearly that is not your stance. Get out of here with your nonsense. Others may tolerate it, or may shy away from calling it out for fear of "offending" you, but I sure as hell wont.

 

Ive had many close friends I played this game with for 3 years, but they all left (literally the whole guild). Everyone I used to play with across many guilds, all gone. Not that you would care though. After all, I am the arrogant one right? All these people left either silently or were called haters or toxic- much like you are doing now- when they voiced their concerns about the solo heavy nature of the path Bioware started taking with and after Shadow of revan.

[Ylliarus]

I have to agree with the viewpoint - already expressed in this thread - that since the Dread Master story arc was primarily told through operations in the first place, it should remain as operations. If all you do is solo play, the Dread Master story doesn't make much sense. You see them on Belsavis, but only as an Imperial, and then you don't get wind of them until the middle of the Dread War with a ferocious battle on Oricon. If there's a payoff to the story, it's in following it through from the hints about Eternity Vault and Karagga's invasions through the war on Denova and the hypergate crisis up to killing Styrak on Darvannis. And that requires playing operations. All Oricon is, to the people who played solo, is a dailies area. There's a story there, but it doesn't really exist in reference to them.

 

(I mean, if you can watch a YouTube clip of Moff Orlec explaining what went down on Darvannis, to learn the background behind the Dread War, you can presumably watch a YouTube clip of Maiya Vix and Lord Hargrev talking about what's to be done now that the Dread Masters are gone. And if you don't care enough about the story to do the former, why do you care about it enough to want to be able to get the latter in-game?)

 

It'd be kind of interesting if they had made a Revan-in-SoR sort of fight for the Dread Council on Oricon for solo players. I can see why they didn't, of course. It's some amount of dev resources toward something that is not really a priority; it's not a main storyline, and it pretty much would only exist to mitigate the salt from people who get annoyed about having an unfinished quest in their log. (This was also the source of much complaining about the Forex/Pierce Alliance Alerts in KotFE.) It's fine to claim that the game was designed to be solo-friendly and that it was billed as a sort of KotOR III, but it's a long way between acknowledging that and agreeing that the operations-heavy Oricon side story arc that only made a brief intersection with solo play needs to be restructured because of it. Class stories and the main RotHC-SoR-KotFE-KotET arc are one thing; Oricon is something else.

 

Also, the idea behind the Revan fight was nice, but the implementation has often been mocked. You can basically afk most of the fight while Marr, Satele, and the rest whittle Revan down. Meh. It's not quite the same as dodging aberrations, getting around Trail of Agony, or fighting off the droid adds.

 

I mean, I guess it's fine that people want this. I just don't see it ever happening, I don't particularly want it to happen (although I won't protest much if it does), and I think that the results would be very underwhelming if it ever did happen.

 

Sure, the dread war may be told through multiple storylines in the operations that came before it. All fine and good, but Oricon was presented as a main narrative, the fact it appears in the player's ship mission terminal being proof Bioware considers it such, and a narrative should have a beginning and an end. How messed up would it be if they suddenly decided to make Arcann at the end of KotFE and Valkorion at the end of KotET operations with no solo alternative. You played through all of KotFE and KotET not even thinking you'd have the operation wall be put in front of you and suddenly wham, no more story progression until you do the operation.

 

That is exactly what is happening on Oricon. That is exactly why we need a solo alternative for the Oricon story. It's a storyline that everyone should have access to from beginning to end, you can't begin a storyline have it happily progress and suddenly WHAM! operation wall. As wrong as it would be for in KotFE and KotET as wrong is it in Oricon.

 

And yes, Devs would go back and redo old content. They just saw with the CXP bug that if you reward players enough they'll happily do old content again. I can guarantee you they will be looking at boosting old content now more, especially the dailies. So if anything it would be the perfect opportunity to implement a solo alternative for in the Oricon narrative.

[Ahbal]

This is exactly the attitude that will keep us fighting. It's this poisonous way of thinking that will keep up the delusional barrier of "us vs them". Are you so blind and oblivious to the fact that should you support our requests for once we might support yours for more group content? Not all would really be interested in more group content but because you had fostered goodwill we'd stand with you because we know it's something you want. Instead you choose to turn us against you. Why are you so arrogant and persist in your faultive way of thinking that your group content-focus style of playing this game is superior to any other way of playing?

 

Also who the heck talked about content being dumbed down? Did anyone ask for that? Did anyone hint at that? A solo alternative was being asked, no more no less. Get off your high horse and read what is being said properly, because now you're simply spitting on other players who don't play the way you do and that is rather immature.

 

So you edited your post while I was posting a response to it Here is my response to the edit.

 

Solo alternatives are ALWAYS dumbed down. You ALWAYS get "god mode" where you are pretty much invincible with an invincible droid that can heal you up to full. That is the definition of dumbed down. To be able to solo such content, their unique mechanics need to be DUMBED DOWN to WORK with SOLO play as they were intended for GROUP play. Get it now? Not that you would as it seems you've never done group content with such mechanics.

 

It is you who should read what others are saying, not me. Dumbing down is not an insult. It literally is the process of making group content soloable.

[Ylliarus]

Wow another assumption! Get off your high horse. Youve had solo content for 2 years. Stop acting like you would support group content, that is a blatant lie. Solo players have been getting what they want for 2 years. If your premise was true, you would have been asking for a new OP by now. Next. how am I being arrogant? I am simply pointing out hypocrisy here, in that persons post. I made it clear in another post swtor had a great balance before between solo/FP/OP content. But now it is mostly solo with literally no OP in the last 2 years. If you think solo players still need "supporting" it is YOU that is arrogant. It is YOU that is toxic. I stuck by during these last few years of solo dominant content "supporting" what you wanted, hoping we would get group/social focused content. But no. As demonstrated by your post, solo players literally want the whole game to be solo. Going into old content, and wanting it CONVERTED for SOLO play, instead of sitting back thinking "hey we have had 2 years of solo content, what about the OPs players?". But no, clearly that is not your stance. Get out of here with your nonsense. Others may tolerate it, or may shy away from calling it out for fear of "offending" you, but I sure as hell wont.

 

Ive had many close friends I played this game with for 3 years, but they all left (literally the whole guild). Everyone I used to play with across many guilds, all gone. Not that you would care though. After all, I am the arrogant one right? All these people left either silently or were called haters or toxic- much like you are doing now- when they voiced their concerns about the solo heavy nature of the path Bioware started taking with and after Shadow of revan.

 

Then you don't read what I say. You (the raiders not you specifically) have been alienating those who like to play more solo for years now by ridiculing and spitting on them for not playing the game like you do. That is the reason why for example I would never support a notion for more group content, I get why they want it but why should I support someone who has been looking down on me for not playing like they do? Had the raiders been "hey, we got an operation with Oricon but what about a solo alternative for soloplayers?" then I would have gladly been making threads and writing messages to the devs "hey, I am happy you put a lot of time and effort into solo play, but you neglected the group content people and they are leaving". That is the way of thinking of many people and if you don't believe that would happen, yeah it never will now because you have alienated us through years of ridicule.

 

And is the game being converted to solo, truly? The operations are being removed? Solo modes are being put into operations? Raiding is not getting better rewards than solo play? The devs aren't putting time and effort into a new operation right now? They didn't apologise for the fact that they had wrongfully focused on story and neglected multiplayers? I see, how the game is turning solo...

 

Also it is clear to me that you simply can't handle me disagreeing with you and making some sense. Don't worry about offending me because you won't, naming me a "dumb solo player" won't do much because I know it's not true. But it's sad that you feel this way with someone disagreeing with you, but then again since you don't care about others why should I care about that?

[Ylliarus]

So you edited your post while I was posting a response to it Here is my response to the edit.

 

Solo alternatives are ALWAYS dumbed down. You ALWAYS get "god mode" where you are pretty much invincible with an invincible droid that can heal you up to full. That is the definition of dumbed down. To be able to solo such content, their unique mechanics need to be DUMBED DOWN to WORK with SOLO play as they were intended for GROUP play. Get it now? Not that you would as it seems you've never done group content with such mechanics.

 

It is you who should read what others are saying, not me. Dumbing down is not an insult. It literally is the process of making group content soloable.

 

Oh are we turning this into a personal fight?

 

Am I not allowed to make edits if I have an afterthought? Sorry I don't have magical powers to foresee when you are responding to something or writing something new. I wish I had such powers it would make life a lot easier...

 

And what an idiotic assumption. Oh just because I ask for a solo alternative, NOT MODE, solo alterntive to the operation I must not know how the game mechanics work because I never play with others. Had you really read my posts you would have discovered that I in fact PvP daily and do Uprisings and Flashpoints regularly. But no, you'd rather stick to your views of how solo players are after all, because otherwise you'd have to change yours views! And that would be a catastrophe now wouldn't it...

 

I ask for a solo alternative like we have in Shadow of Revan, you do the story, get the choice to do the operation or do dailies instead, done. Easy solution, raiders see their operation untouched but solo-focus players get an alternative. Everyone happy, surely that is not so difficult to comprehend.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Ahbal]

Then you don't read what I say. You (the raiders not you specifically) have been alienating those who like to play more solo for years now by ridiculing and spitting on them for not playing the game like you do. That is the reason why for example I would never support a notion for more group content, I get why they want it but why should I support someone who has been looking down on me for not playing like they do? Had the raiders been "hey, we got an operation with Oricon but what about a solo alternative for soloplayers?" then I would have gladly been making threads and writing messages to the devs "hey, I am happy you put a lot of time and effort into solo play, but you neglected the group content people and they are leaving". That is the way of thinking of many people and if you don't believe that would happen, yeah it never will now because you have alienated us through years of ridicule.

 

And is the game being converted to solo, truly? The operations are being removed? Solo modes are being put into operations? Raiding is not getting better rewards than solo play? The devs aren't putting time and effort into a new operation right now? They didn't apologise for the fact that they had wrongfully focused on story and neglected multiplayers? I see, how the game is turning solo...

 

Also it is clear to me that you simply can't handle me disagreeing with you and making some sense. Don't worry about offending me because you won't, naming me a "dumb solo player" won't do much because I know it's not true. But it's sad that you feel this way with someone disagreeing with you, but then again since you don't care about others why should I care about that?

 

Oooh more hypocrisy, you are making this easy for me. First, you were talking about coming together and both sides supporting each other, but now you put all raiders in one basket because of some who "spit on solo players"? So? What about the rest who you dont communicate with? You want them to be punished? How tolerant of you.

 

Next, I never once said the whole game is being converted to solo play. I said that is what solo players WANT not what is HAPPENING. See, this is why I tend to use caps on key words...Further, it is of no significance to me if you disagree with me or not, as I am pointing out facts (like stating no ops content in 2 years). Most of my post was highlighting your hyposcrisy and assumptions of my character stated by you or the other poster, which you are still doing. Notice how not once have I made an assumption about you? Not once have I been hypocritical. You also said you dont like the "us vs them" mentality yet you have very clearly shown it here. I am in the middle, I want the old balance of swtor to return, again as I outlined in my other posts on the same page as the one you responded to.

[Ahbal]

Oh are we turning this into a personal fight?

 

Am I not allowed to make edits if I have an afterthought? Sorry I don't have magical powers to foresee when you are responding to something or writing something new. I wish I had such powers it would make life a lot easier...

 

And what an idiotic assumption. Oh just because I ask for a solo alternative, NOT MODE, solo alterntive to the operation I must not know how the game mechanics work because I never play with others. Had you really read my posts you would have discovered that I in fact PvP daily and do Uprisings and Flashpoints regularly. But no, you'd rather stick to your views of how solo players are after all, because otherwise you'd have to change yours views! And that would be a catastrophe now wouldn't it...

 

I ask for a solo alternative like we have in Shadow of Revan, you do the story, get the choice to do the operation or do dailies instead, done. Easy solution, raiders see their operation untouched but solo-focus players get an alternative. Everyone happy, surely that is not so difficult to comprehend.

 

What? I stated you made an edit I missed and I made an extra post to respond to it.....you are losing your mind...

 

Uprisings and Flashpoints? Thats not what I was taling about. Again, you are making assumptions as usual. Not once have I said solo players never do Fps or uprisings....not that it matters as OPs are different....OPs often have their own unique mechanics that must be removed/dumbed down in order for them to work in solo play. Making the alternative you want will be like adding completely new content,( as it will be seperate) and looking at the size of the dev team, that is not possible at the moment. They can barely make one new OP, let alone redo 2 old ones in solo mode.

[nyrkverse]

main reason why i hesistate to do ops...1. i never been to them and would likely get kicked/harrassed for watching every cutscene instead of smashing spacebar, 2. i play Marksman Discipline Sniper...basically grinding out crates until i'm mostly 248 before i attempt them...

 

1) There are very few cutscenes in Operations. DF and DP only have one before the final boss, they're very short, there are no dialogue options to choose and the time it takes to watch them can match the time it takes to load in for slower computers. Also, there's always a little bit of organizing before a boss and at least a ready check so you will have time to watch them with none the wiser if that's a concern

(if you're on the story questline you can watch the intro and epilogue scenes by yourself. The only exceptions to this are Karagga's Palace and Explosive Conflict that for inexpicable reasons have the npc for the intro and outro inside the instances. Luckily you just need one more person to make a fake operation group to get in there and watch those cutscenes which are actually quite nice)

 

2) You really don't need high end gear for storymode operations, there's bolster and they are now easier than ever. And you most definitely don't need to worry your preferred discipline is not "viable". Just say you're new before you join a group, if you're very unlucky and they're jerks you'll know right away and you can look for another, otherwise (which is 99 % of the times in my experience) they'll give you the few pointers you need to know along the way and that will be it.

Edited September 5, 2017 by nyrkverse

[VegasTheLost]

Replying to the latest forum PVP.

 

Not trying to be offensive here, but seems that mosty US servers have problem with the raiders' attitude, since I never really encountered it on the TRE. I don't know what is happening on the US servers but in EU it is not an issue that a new-to-the-ops guy gets bullied and such. We quite welcome new blood and happy to help them. Of course if someone stays quiet and doesn't say that some help or general tactics rundown is required, than how could we help? So here's some advice to those who think stepping to an SM OPS is like US Army day 1: it's not, just state that you new and need help and it will be given to you.

 

As for topic, come to TRE I might can arrange you a ride, more info in my signiture.

[Ylliarus]

Oooh more hypocrisy, you are making this easy for me. First, you were talking about coming together and both sides supporting each other, but now you put all raiders in one basket because of some who "spit on solo players"? So? What about the rest who you dont communicate with? You want them to be punished? How tolerant of you.

 

Next, I never once said the whole game is being converted to solo play. I said that is what solo players WANT not what is HAPPENING. See, this is why I tend to use caps on key words...Further, it is of no significance to me if you disagree with me or not, as I am pointing out facts (like stating no ops content in 2 years). Most of my post was highlighting your hyposcrisy and assumptions of my character stated by you or the other poster, which you are still doing. Notice how not once have I made an assumption about you? Not once have I been hypocritical. You also said you dont like the "us vs them" mentality yet you have very clearly shown it here. I am in the middle, I want the old balance of swtor to return, again as I outlined in my other posts on the same page as the one you responded to.

 

What we're doing now is detrimental to this debate so I will indulge you with a response one more time.

 

Yes, I'd love it if we'd all come together. It's what I want, truly what I want. Will it ever happen? No, because group content focused people will continue to laugh at and spit on every single player that doesn't play their way, I can quote dozens of examples for you from this thread alone as to how react on soloplayers. What do you expect happens in return? Soloplayers licking the boots of those who look down on them for playing the game a different way? No, they view them as toxic people who only think of themselves. If you don't believe me then I suggest you read on how human nature works.

 

And you are putting words into my mouth I didn't say. How very strawman of you, as it seems your arguments are really headed that way. Where did I say I want to see people punished? Did I ever say I want the operation to be touched? To be removed from Oricon? I never said such a thing, I keep repeating that I don't want the operations on Oricon to be even looked at by the devs when they implement a solo alternative, I merely as for a solo route to be added. If you consider that as punishment then you truly have a peculiar view of the world.

 

And you say you don't make assumptions well, saying "solo players want to see this game turned solo" is a rather gigantic assumption. Everyone understands this game is solo as well as multiplayer, I certainly don't want to see either side removed, I merely want both sides to have equal access to the main content, in this case story, specifically the story on Oricon. So don't talk about hypocrisy to me because you excell at it at this moment.

[fushnchips]

Oh are we turning this into a personal fight?

 

Am I not allowed to make edits if I have an afterthought? Sorry I don't have magical powers to foresee when you are responding to something or writing something new. I wish I had such powers it would make life a lot easier...

 

And what an idiotic assumption. Oh just because I ask for a solo alternative, NOT MODE, solo alterntive to the operation I must not know how the game mechanics work because I never play with others. Had you really read my posts you would have discovered that I in fact PvP daily and do Uprisings and Flashpoints regularly. But no, you'd rather stick to your views of how solo players are after all, because otherwise you'd have to change yours views! And that would be a catastrophe now wouldn't it...

 

I ask for a solo alternative like we have in Shadow of Revan, you do the story, get the choice to do the operation or do dailies instead, done. Easy solution, raiders see their operation untouched but solo-focus players get an alternative. Everyone happy, surely that is not so difficult to comprehend.

 

You don't deserve a solo mode the story line wasn't designed to have this so why should bioware get down on there hands and knees to please some guy/girl who can't get 7 other friends together to complete what they designed so give up on this quest it's not going to happen.

[Ylliarus]

What? I stated you made an edit I missed and I made an extra post to respond to it.....you are losing your mind...

 

Uprisings and Flashpoints? Thats not what I was taling about. Again, you are making assumptions as usual. Not once have I said solo players never do Fps or uprisings....not that it matters as OPs are different....OPs often have their own unique mechanics that must be removed/dumbed down in order for them to work in solo play. Making the alternative you want will be like adding completely new content,( as it will be seperate) and looking at the size of the dev team, that is not possible at the moment. They can barely make one new OP, let alone redo 2 old ones in solo mode.

 

Then your tone in your writing comes over as very hostile, because I am more than capable of continuing a discussion in a sensible and rational way, but if I start losing my temper there is a reason for that. So I suggest you rethink your tone instead of stating I am losing my mind, because I am rather very calm (again an assumption about me from your side).

 

It will not be like adding entirely new content, I am not asking for a solo mode in the operation. I am asking for a way to bypass the operations instead so that those can remain untouched, how many times do I have to repeat myself? It will be adding a few tweaks as only 1 little dialogue option would be added as a bypass to the operations, that is the suggestion I am making nothing else. If the devs added entire new cutscenes to the start of this game, then surely this must be a walk in the park.

Adding to this, the devs started seeing that when people are properly rewarded for content they will go back and redo it. You can expect the devs will be looking at the dailies now as to how to improve on them because of the CXP bug. The devs saw there is an interest in older content that way, so it would be the perfect opportunity to add in a solo alternative for Oricon.

[Ahbal]

What we're doing now is detrimental to this debate so I will indulge you with a response one more time.

 

Yes, I'd love it if we'd all come together. It's what I want, truly what I want. Will it ever happen? No, because group content focused people will continue to laugh at and spit on every single player that doesn't play their way, I can quote dozens of examples for you from this thread alone as to how react on soloplayers. What do you expect happens in return? Soloplayers licking the boots of those who look down on them for playing the game a different way? No, they view them as toxic people who only think of themselves. If you don't believe me then I suggest you read on how human nature works.

 

And you are putting words into my mouth I didn't say. How very strawman of you, as it seems your arguments are really headed that way. Where did I say I want to see people punished? Did I ever say I want the operation to be touched? To be removed from Oricon? I never said such a thing, I keep repeating that I don't want the operations on Oricon to be even looked at by the devs when they implement a solo alternative, I merely as for a solo route to be added. If you consider that as punishment then you truly have a peculiar view of the world.

 

And you say you don't make assumptions well, saying "solo players want to see this game turned solo" is a rather gigantic assumption. Everyone understands this game is solo as well as multiplayer, I certainly don't want to see either side removed, I merely want both sides to have equal access to the main content, in this case story, specifically the story on Oricon. So don't talk about hypocrisy to me because you excell at it at this moment.

 

Ah more of the same then. My reference to "punish" was that those players will not receive the "support" you were talking about earlier due to the behaviour of the "toxic" ones to solo players. See the problem here? You are taking a very defensive stance seeking offence from everything Im saying, when thats not my intention. Second, yes, solo players are demonstrating they want the game turned solo over the last 2 years. Not like what you want with the alternatives, but only solo content. Hence, why I was saying "last 2 years" (i.e the whole set of new content of last 2 years being soloable). I have no problem with things like the revan fight-once again I stated I want the same balance as swtor had before...which is also what you want...Next...I never said you specifically "want" group stuff removed. I dont think I ever stated ANYONE wanted it removed...

 

Further did you even address my point about the dev team not being big enough to be able to make these alternatives you want to the Old ops? I clearly agreed with you on that point. But again, you cherry pick. Trying to act like I am putting words in your mouth when really you are misinterpreting almost every word.

[nyrkverse]

Replying to the latest forum PVP.

 

Not trying to be offensive here, but seems that mosty US servers have problem with the raiders' attitude, since I never really encountered it on the TRE. I don't know what is happening on the US servers but in EU it is not an issue that a new-to-the-ops guy gets bullied and such. We quite welcome new blood and happy to help them. Of course if someone stays quiet and doesn't say that some help or general tactics rundown is required, than how could we help? So here's some advice to those who think stepping to an SM OPS is like US Army day 1: it's not, just state that you new and need help and it will be given to you.

 

As for topic, come to TRE I might can arrange you a ride, more info in my signiture.

 

I'm from TRE as well and I'm always baffled by this fear of operations and raiders. Maybe it is a server thing, as you say. I never had a problem when I was new.