Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Shockonator]

Its like people have no idea there are nodes in the game that give you close to the same amount of credits, and cost nothing to mine.

[Dorkfrey]

Why yes. I do appear to be. It's that darn light side star thing.

 

 

 

Though it is true it took many days of lively discussion with a co-worker for him to get me to see that Corporations NEVER pay tax, I still think you should try. If not for me then for all those who CAN see your *wisdom*.

 

 

 

More accurately I make the profit I am ok with. After all I was not forced and was not someones slave (special case of force). You (or crafter A) sells his/her product at a profit that he chooses to be ok with. The final customer helps all of us choose that profit.

 

 

 

Probably

 

 

 

Better go with the long version. "for they know not what the ECONOMY MASTERS..." didn't seem to complete the sentence. Oh and if credits are dear then their Demand has gone up. Thus the items that would be purchased with them are now in less demand and so the customer will give up fewer credits to the crafter who will have fewer credits and they will want to hold on to those. Thus they will have fewer credits for the gatherer. Supply/Demand. Affects everything. Including credits when they are on one side of the equation.

 

 

 

 

I can. This whole thread is about why they seem short. My buyers are still buying. Had to raise my prices last night to slow down their enthusiasm

 

 

 

looks like argument to ridicule. You've used it a lot in your posts.

 

 

 

Yes. You used it again. At least 3 times along with a few other logic fallacies.

 

(I still can't spell your name or remember it ) you might get a few subscribers. But at the end of the day, you're still wrong.

 

The global market has TANKED.

 

Maybe not for you. Maybe you hold the light that we all need to envisage. This global market where no one has the creds to buy what they'd like, but still can afford yours.

 

Reminds me a little too much of Nal Hutta for my tastes. I prefer personal freedom.

 

I like to own, and be my own, and those who buy off me, are their own MEN too.

 

Where they feel like they're their own people but able to improve their own lot. Not exactly the "Rupublican Way" but hell, I don't suspect your's was either (It was the hardcore version).

 

Let's not put it flowery then, since you seem to have a fine way of twisting words.

 

I make things.

 

In fact, I make things that make people's lives in the game easier.

 

I make things that hurt people. So far - in the GNT, there's not many who make better that I do.

 

In a game that's all about hurting people... when my gear isn't affordable, but they can't sell enough to buy my stuff at cost + 200c, the market has gone wrong.

 

Sure, you and your fluffy lying universe can say otherwise. But, at the end of the day, when Bioware actually looks at things, I'll still be right, and you'll still be some lying tramp on the forums who wanted to ruin other people's enjoyment of the game.

 

It's okay Satan. You're the king of deceit.

Edit: (this was wrong of me to write - this is a person trying to express their beliefs.) I genuinely do not believe that Satene's views are the right way forwards, however - I made a grave mistake in what I wrote here. I leave it here, because at the end of the day, I'm judged by what I say and do, and here I made a mistake in what I did and said, but I don't believe in hiding the truth, I screwed up people.

 

What I said was wrong, and was wrong to aim it personally at Satene. I am extremely frustrated with Bioware and the Developers of this game, and wish that they could communicate better with us.

 

My words are only heart felt, yours. well, they touch anyone who's needy enough.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Dorkfrey

[Tinfish]

400 Slicer Post nerf makes more cash then other gather skills STILL.

 

Missions... Rich missions break even with occasional crit for additional items

 

Augments- Market is focking FLOOOOOODED and they aint worth spit - I can't sell em and the missions for them are too exspensive.

 

Looting Nodes - while out and about is cash from looting nodes is GOOD - We still make more then other gathers. I am avging 1500 a box on correlia and I gather a lot of boxes. Other gather classes are not avging more then that. I would guess at best they might hit an avg AH value of 1000 Cr per resource node.

 

 

SO now missions aren't worth much except the rich break even with a shot at a recipe or class mission.

 

Its still more profitable in the field and u still dont have to Deal with AH or crafting.

 

1,100,000 cr @ level 47 Sorc

 

Darth Nox of the Busted class quest title victims association

Edited December 31, 2011 by Tinfish

[Shockonator]

 

Its still more profitable in the field...

 

As it should be.

 

/thread

[TheDarkerPhantom]

Absolutely not true. I have started slicing on the Sith Warrior I rolled yesterday afternoon. After 4* hours of running quests, I have found 21 open world lockboxes, for a profit of $2,016c free credits. Not bad for only level 13.

 

*This is my 3rd Sith Warrior, I rolled a Juggernaut & Marauder in Beta. Quests go alot faster when you know where everything is.

 

At level 15, a single skill training costs nearly that much, and your getting 2-3 skills per level up.

 

What about repair bills? My average repair bill at level 20 was 900 credits.

 

I can spend in theory 400 credits on a high yield rank lowest level slvg mission and get 12 Salvg Rank 1 items. Each one can be sold for about 50 credits. 200 profit, thats if I want to sell it at dirt cheap prices.

 

I can gather the same amount of gathering items in and make 5x that amount.

Edited December 31, 2011 by TheDarkerPhantom

[Dorkfrey]

400 Slicer Post nerf

 

Missions... Rich missions break even with occasional crit for additional items

 

Augments- Market is focking FLOOOOOODED and they aint worth spit - I can't sell em and the missions for them are too exspensive.

 

Looting Nodes = while out and about is GOOD - We still make more then other gathers. I am avging 1500 a box on correlia and I gather a lot of boxes. Other gather classes are not avging more then that. I would guess they might hit a 1000 Cr on raw materials sold on AH at best.

 

 

SO now missions aren't worth much except the rich break even with a shot at a recipe or class mission.

 

Its still more profitable in the field and u still dont have to Deal with AH or crafting.

 

1,100,000 cr @ level 47 Sorc

 

Darth Nox of the Busted class quest title victims association

 

I don't mean it badly - but you don't make more than anyone else.

 

Slicing is the One Eyed Man in the Land of the Blind.

 

While in the Land of the Blind, you might be KING, but everywhere else, you've a lack of depth perception. Slicing *WAS* at best, minimum Wage, as so many others have put it far more eloquently before me. Right now - all slicing is - is charity handouts at best.

 

As soon as you partake in ANY form of pretty much anything, you'll discover that Slicing wasn't what you thought it was, and in fact anything makes you more money. Including Pimping yourself out to those 40 year old fatboys, who thought Asoka was a good reason to view the CLONE WARS.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Dorkfrey

[Hidalgo]

so... they nerfed it AGAIN? really Bioware. i'm not gonna wast my 15k on testing this if pre-2nd nerf an 8 hour run yielded a grand 115 credits.

 

why would you nerf a second time if it was hardly profitable after the first nerf...

[Dorkfrey]

So many logical fallacies. So little time. Perhaps a remedial course in debate? Since I seem to be in so many of them I must have said something that really bothers him. Such power. Hmmmm.... I'm feeling the dark side calling... Must resist..... So hard........

 

You know, when I was growing up, and in my teens, I never had courses in Debate.

 

Sorry - it was all real life or nothing..

 

And so - when I speak I speak from the heart. Something I think you sadly miss.

While I might miss **** that others wil pick up, I won't ever hurt anyone to get my way, because the school I learned from taught me to be a decent person.

 

You might have learned debating techniques, but you're still missing what makes me human.

 

My apologies for being born two decades before you were. We were taught morals, not debating techniques.

 

We were taught what was right and wrong, not - how to pretend to be an innocent when trying to harm others.

 

We were taught how to behave like Jedi, albeit called (English), that you child, make a mockery of with every breath you take.

 

I do so hope you're Sith.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Dorkfrey

[TheDarkerPhantom]

The problem here, sadly, is that judging by the current state of affairs, crafting needs to be re-worked entirely.

 

We've still yet to see a lot of the EG patterns though. Then again, that would only make max level augments useful. Soo, I guess my argument is somewhat void there.

 

Here is the problem.

 

The game is live, it in every sense of the word "to late" to change the crew skills.

 

Let me tell you a little story.

 

I played Star Trek Online for an entire week before the game came out. During this time you could level ALL of your Captain skills. Literally hours before the launch they changed it, now instead of being able to level all your skills, you had to pick and about 30 choices and only got 10 max skills.

 

If you didn't play the game, the way the characters were designed, allowed everyone to fill any role provided you learn those skills. I didn't play past 10 hours after launch.

 

I am afraid after spending $160 on this game....that changes like this will make it another STO, and Conan.

[entrz]

Really?

 

Make 7 characters to level X to get a companion, which you can do in a few days, and congratulations, you now have a rediculous amount of income for logging in and out.

 

Free money is bad.

 

 

So can we just agree that this is a problem affecting ALL crew skills, that rewards should not be claimable after a character has logged out?

 

This hardly seems like a problem specific to slicing and can be exploited by any crew skill, its just slicing was the most noticeable.

[TheDarkerPhantom]

The game has been out for 2 weeks... 2 weeks.... You expect a full thriving economy to be working in 2 weeks? Really?

 

Complete economies are not built overnight. People are still leveling, doing a little crafting etc. Give the game some time, and the economy will flourish... I'm actually more worried about vendors selling mods for commendations, that is a more direct impact to crafters.

 

Its been out for 10 days.....

[Pansophist]

Its been out for 10 days.....

 

The release was Dec. 20th. I've been playing since early access, Dec. 13th. Your point, however, is still not invalid. I just felt like pointing that out before someone tried to smash your post to bits

Edited December 31, 2011 by Pansophist

[Zakkana]

The release was Dec. 20th. I've been playing since early access, Dec. 13th.

 

And I am pretty sure some folks took note of it in beta too.

[roadrunner]

Guys, they decreased missions but increased nodes. My friend got +400k in just a day by collecting nodes on ilum. Try it out.

[Satene]

Satan, you might get a few subscribers. But at the end of the day, you're still wrong.

 

Well well well. The human knows my name. Now what was it Rumpelstiltskin did when that happened?

 

The global market has TANKED.

 

Maybe not for you. Maybe you hold the light that we all need to envisage. This global market where no one has the creds to buy what they'd like, but still can afford yours.

 

Credits are but the means to improve the efficiency of barter. I have all this aluminum. Anyone want to make a pistol out of it for me? Nah. More efficient to trade it for credits so I can give you some credits for pistols. (Assumes you craft pistols)

 

Reminds me a little too much of Nal Hutta for my tastes. I prefer personal freedom.

 

I like to own, and be my own, and those who buy off me, are their own MEN too.

 

Ok. Can I have all your souls now?

 

Where they feel like they're their own people but able to improve their own lot. Not exactly the "Rupublican Way" but hell, I don't suspect your's was either (It was the hardcore version).

 

Let's not put it flowery then, since you seem to have a fine way of twisting words.

 

Well go figure. The King of lies should have a fine way of twisting words.

 

I make things.

 

In fact, I make things that make people's lives in the game easier.

 

I make things that hurt people. So far - in the GNT, there's not many who make better that I do.

 

In a game that's all about hurting people... when my gear isn't affordable, but they can't sell enough to buy my stuff at cost + 200c, the market has gone wrong.

 

Or you need to lower your prices. After all your stuff cost could be time only. Go out and gather.

 

Sure, you and your fluffy lying universe can say otherwise. But, at the end of the day, when Bioware actually looks at things, I'll still be right, and you'll still be some lying tramp on the forums who wanted to ruin other people's enjoyment of the game.

 

Nice. A direct ad hominium attack. not veiled or anything.

 

 

It's okay Satan. You're the king of deceit.

 

I'm not really bad. I'm just written this way.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amusing story for the rest of you who have bothered to read our discussion. Years ago

when I decided to get into my first MMO I went looking for a name. I had decided on the name SA-10 from a science fiction story about a robot who came to earth and became the mythological source (in the story) for Satan. Well EQ did not allow a name with - or numbers in it so I modified my name to Satene. Have used it in several MMOs since. With storylines to explain her presence in places like SWG and SWTOR.

[Dorkfrey]

The release was Dec. 20th. I've been playing since early access, Dec. 13th. Your point, however, is still not invalid. I just felt like pointing that out before someone tried to smash your post to bits

 

The game hasn't been released for yet a month, where people would be going, "Oh Snap - 100k credits isn't what we thought it was when we were 12". Yet Bioware is changing things galore.

 

Wonder if they didn't go: "But Holy Hell WotC - Wizards are like weak as chips right now Batman", when they took on the BG License.

 

And for those of you who don't know the terms, you should shut the **** up.

 

This is experience talking over youth and enthusiasm.

 

Bioware made a pretty damned solid release, but for the lack of confidence in their own product they caved on Slicing in SWTor.

 

You know BioWare, I've adored you guys from the oft. In fact, I'd wager before some of these pre-pubescbents were able to speak. You made good games.

 

But when it comes down to it, you don't have faith in what you've created. Which is like building a house of cards and hoping it would stay up.

 

The fact that none of you have even broached this topic is abhorrent. I remember your predecessors talking about fun stuff till the cows came home.

 

Then again, this was me - when your priors were talking about NVN etc. Let's not go into Torment which I still think is one of your finest to date.

 

You guys created something amazing, something that could rule them all. One game to bind them, that level of ****.

 

And then, in a stroke, you threw it away. Not only did you not talk to us about it, you started doubting yourselves and hammering away at what you created. It's like the ultimate self harm. You make something of genius, and then because a few people poke flaws, you destroy it all. In this case now, you will never be the Gallileo of our times, because you as a whole could not stand by - and speak about what you created.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Dorkfrey

[LiqShadowS]

Yes. Slicing is trash now, just get rid of it and get one of the other skills.

 

Also look on the GTN for patterns and missions for your new skill, I have some on there.

[myrken]

something for thought these two sayings.

"The only constant in the universe is change"

 

Proof of this is how every mmo is always nerfed.

 

"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Proof of this is every mmo that nerfs too much stuff fails in the end.

 

a shame companies have yet to realize this as of yet.

Edited December 31, 2011 by myrken

[Dorkfrey]

Do you have any idea how silly you sound? lol (shakes head)

Not so much Satan as drama queen.

 

No, this person is not unintelligent and can learn. I believe. Just uninformed of the past..

 

I mocked the name, because it's a Friday night and I've been drinking after another week of "change". Stuff stressed me.

 

And you know, a week of change again, will do that. I want my games to have a sense of constant about them.

 

Hence my belief in why the market has tanked.

 

We need games developers to have that sense of "balls" to say, "You know what good sir, we've calculated more than you." and let things progress naturally.

 

Like the outcome, well hell, anyone playing could have predicted this if we were warned, we've lived though it (for some of us have at least).

 

What the world needs (of games design at least) is a strong conviction in what they do, at least enough to say - "Wait and see."

 

Which is not what we got with Slicing.

[myrken]

Wow I can honestly say I'm glad I'm not the guy Bioware has assigned to monitor this thread because id be having an aneurism by now lol.

[myrken]

We need to hear something from Bioware on this subject because the trolls have begun to march. As for the changes to slicing its the only capped income profession at 50 meaning any other profession at 50 has more potential for massive income than slicing, this is simply a matter of low level players freaking out Bioware trying to resolve this initial problem and moving in on it to fast without a proper judgement call. Simply put slicing needs to be put back to pre-nerf status and the economy in game needs time to mature. After 6 months when there are more lev 50 players slicing will be one of the least profitable professions in game due to it being capped income. where as all the other professions that produce items will have people raising prices in AH above anyone slicing's maximum mission returns.

 

1. The economy has yet to stabilize yet so in no way could a nerf of this sort be properly thought out.

 

2. later on when more people are 50 slicing will need a major buff to keep pace with market income made by other professions.

 

3.We need to hear something as to how Bioware is intending to handle this issue because just reading our posts tells us nothing and alienates the community who then decides well they don't care so why should I spend on their product?

 

4. This is something that with time and no nerf would have sorted itself out so really don't fix it if it isn't broke.

 

5. Oh and by not giving the market and player base a chance to settle Bioware just gave a prime example of what happens when you try to fix something that's not broken but you assume is yet don't really know to begin with therefore, "you'd be best off waiting to be sure before smacking your **** against a beehive"

 

Felt id bring back my older post on this subject as to see peoples opinions on the topic at hand.

[DarthTHC]

Seems like a lot of overreaction and too little analysis.

 

Slicing is still profitable, based on my tests. After 353 missions, here's how it breaks down:

 

 

• Rank 1: 6 missions for an average loss of 99 credits per mission. This is the only rank that loses money. Get over it.
  
• Rank 2: 41 missions for an average profit of 5 credits per mission. Not stellar? It's rank 2. Get over it.
  
• Rank 3: 61 missions for an average profit of 109 credits per mission. Getting better...
  
• Rank 4: 88 missions for an average profit of 288 credits per mission.
  
• Rank 5: 101 missions for an average profit of 335 credits per mission.
  
• Rank 6: 56 missions for an average profit of 216 credits per mission.
  

 

Notice how Rank 1 starts you off with an average loss of about 100 credits per mission and then your average profit per mission increases by something around 100 credits per rank after that?

 

The "sweet spot" seems to be Rank 5 Rich and Bountiful missions. Once you max out and run only those, you might average over 500 credits profit per mission.

 

Slicing is profitable. You just have to know how to do it and get through the lower levels.

 

If you do the math on the above, you'll see that I've made just over 71,000 credits of profit on slicing missions (ONLY missions; I'm not tracking nodes I find while adventuring) since the "nerf".

[aceospadez]

I agree. I've found the exact same results when comparing numbers with friends. it is completely screwed into the ground now.... thanks

[Dorkfrey]

[*]Rank 5: 101 missions for an average profit of 335 credits per mission.

 

The "sweet spot" seems to be Rank 5 Rich and Bountiful missions. Once you max out and run only those, you might average over 500 credits profit per mission.

 

Slicing is profitable. You just have to know how to do it and get through the lower levels.

 

If you do the math on the above, you'll see that I've made just over 71,000 credits of profit on slicing missions (ONLY missions; I'm not tracking nodes I find while adventuring) since the "nerf".

 

Yeah, we're all well aware of the "sweet" spot, just, 10 credits per minute profit isn't exactly worth JACK now is it? I think the spreadsheet had it at 33 credits per minute, however - my Level 10 TH can make more than that selling on the GTN.

 

Sorry - I forgot, some troll would say slice a node, except all those are gone bar the low level ones aren't they.

[DarthTHC]

Yeah, we're all well aware of the "sweet" spot, just, 10 credits per minute profit isn't exactly worth JACK now is it? I think the spreadsheet had it at 33 credits per minute, however - my Level 10 TH can make more than that selling on the GTN.

 

Sorry - I forgot, some troll would say slice a node, except all those are gone bar the low level ones aren't they.

 

Slice a node. I'm not a troll. I've been slicing nodes all day. They're not all gone. Oh, by the way, the server I play on is consistently FULL starting well before "prime time".

 

Advantages to slicing other than mission profit:

 

• You frequently get missions you can sell or run yourself. These are extra money.
  
• You can slice nodes "in the field" for even more profit.
  
• It's profitable without having to manage as many GTN sales as other mission skills.
  

 

BioWare has built comprehensive metrics reporting into the game. Georg Zoeller calls it "telemetry". They can look at how much profit the slicing missions are giving out and break it down to a great degree of detail.

 

They are constantly monitoring all aspects of the game, not just slicing. But since we're talking about slicing, they're monitoring that, too. They use these metrics, and not so much player feedback (especially for slicing) to decide what to do.

 

BioWare didn't adjust slicing because people with other skills complained.

 

They adjusted slicing because the telemetry data they saw was not what they expected to see and not what they desired. They will continue to do this until the data shows what they want it to show.

 

EDIT: Oh, and what's with the credits per minute measurement? This only matters if you're out adventuring but you have 100% of your companions out slicing. Only then do you feel any sort of "loss" for running slicing missions. Credits per minute is an irrelevant measurement. However, if that's how you want to play - maximize your profit per minute - I'm sure you're intelligent and resourceful enough to figure out the crafting skill or skills that will enable you to do that. It's probably not slicing because slicing is "easy money" so the developers aren't going to make it "big money" too.

Edited December 31, 2011 by DarthTHC