Keith, why can't Bio follow Square Enix's example

[ZionHalcyon]

I believe this game is worth the investment. They have a solid foundation, it just needs love (and far more money).

 

We've been saying this since launch, Tux. At some point, we have to realize EA just isn't going to commit to the game, and sadly, take all the WRONG lessons out of it, which is something I only can surmise because every step of the way since launch, the rolling development teams seem to target all the things that people loved about the original game and spit on them/ignore them.

[Icykill_]

It doesn't even attempt to stress my CPU to be honest Icy, it isn't exactly a new CPU either, I'm still using my Sandy Bridge.

 

Depends on the system. But I'm talking a few years ago. In the last 18 months theyve started to put more of the load back onto the GPU.

Sandy Bridge works well with swtor. Which CPU are you using and have you OC'd it

[Icykill_]

I do wonder sometimes what Disney will do once ea and their SW game license runs out around 2023. Now thats a long ways off but I'm sure it will be here before we know it.

 

Will Disney let them continue with a new contract or will Disney take the reigns and do something differently?

 

I think this may already be happening because there is a newish iPad game called Star Wars Force Arena and it's made by Netmarble. I thought they must be a EA company but they aren't.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Icykill_

[fushnchips]

Look at this boss just how cool is it - this is amazing

[Andryah]

I think this may already be happening because there is a newish iPad game called Star Wars Force Arena and it's made by Netmarble. I thought they must be a EA company but they aren't.

 

While not a lot of details about the 10 year agreement between Disney and EA has been made public.... one thing that has is --->> Disney reserves the right of first refusal on any mobile game deployment, which clearly an iPad game would be. Disney has taken up that option in a few cases since the agreement was signed in 2013. If Disney however does not take the option (which they would outsource to a 3rd party mobile game developer, if they did) then sole rights default to EA.

 

It has been rumored though that while Disney may own/promote/market for mobile SW game(s) on a right of first refusal basis, I imagine there are undisclosed terms and conditions whereby EA has right of first refusal for the development work. Not sure EA would take that option though as EA is about selling games and services, not designing them for other companies to sell (unless there is an attractive royalty agreement to be had).

 

Since EA wants to expand big into mobile gaming over the coming years, I'm not sure EA was happy about Disney having the ability to call "dibs" on producing and selling a mobile game... but given Disney's clout..... I'm sure EA had to just suck it up if they wanted complete control over the PC and console market segments.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Andryah

[Deewe]

Actually it would pay for itself many times over with multiplatform game expansion.

We all know that but the EA execs, or at least all BioWare execs have been unable to drive the game correctly since launch to ever have the change to bring the required proof to EA.

[Andryah]

We all know that but the EA execs, or at least all BioWare execs have been unable to drive the game correctly since launch to ever have the change to bring the required proof to EA.

 

There is absolutely ZERO proof of his specious claims that it would pay for itself. In fact.. so many of his ideas are so over the top, and he refuses to listen to any other viewpoints.... that I just put him on ignore a while ago.

 

EA knows better then anyone what the ROI is on porting products across platforms. And in the MMO space, there is no real evidence of multi-platform being worth the effort and investment. It's two completely different demographics between those that chase after MMOs and those that chase after console games. There is clearly a reason that there are very few MMO ports past the standard PC platform.

 

Besides... this is a decision you make early in game design.. like FFXIV did.... NOT years after launch. FFXIV actually had a clear business reason to design for multi-platform from the start.

 

Tell you what.... when Blizzard (who has the resources) ports WoW to consoles... I'll concede the point on the idea. But I advise none of us hold our breath on this fantasy demand. http://segmentnext.com/2016/08/29/world-of-warcraft-console-release/ ** Oh... there are plenty of similar specious demands and allegations of it paying for itself to port to consoles in the WoW forums.....and it reads like an echo of the nonsense here.

 

** and in the same article I linked.. it also looks like Blizzard has decided to pull the plug on some types of Addons. Probably the ones that tell players specifically not to do stupid things like standing in fire, etc. Which pretty well demonstrates that not every player idea is a good idea.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Andryah

[IntegrationArch]

Quote: Originally Posted by IntegrationArch

Actually it would pay for itself many times over with multiplatform game expansion.

 

We all know that but the EA execs, or at least all BioWare execs have been unable to drive the game correctly since launch to ever have the change to bring the required proof to EA.

 

There is absolutely ZERO proof of his specious claims that it would pay for itself. In fact.. so many of his ideas are so over the top, and he refuses to listen to any other viewpoints.... that I just put him on ignore a while ago. EA knows better then anyone what the ROI is on porting products across platforms. And in the MMO space, there is no real evidence of multi-platform being worth the effort and investment. It's two completely different demographics between those that chase after MMOs and those that chase after console games. There is clearly a reason that there are very few MMO ports past the standard PC platform. Besides... this is a decision you make early in game design.. like FFXIV did.... NOT years after launch. FFXIV actually had a clear business reason to design for multi-platform from the start. .........

 

EA'S BattleFront is in competition with BW'S SWTOR so that conflict is kabashing promotions. EA owns BW but perhaps thay had too to control the BW destiny along with 39 other game studios. Like when Dell purchased EMC and its caused long term market shifts. Same for HP purchase of Compaq

 

Here are some dated lists that conflict with that limited logic, the MMO distributors are removing the barriers for PC only or PS4 only and making them play anywhere.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_Live_games_on_Windows_10

 

https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/27/free-for-all-mmorpgs-for-your-new-console/

 

So if you actually have Win8.1 or Win10 OS you will notice the xbox subsystem is now all nicely build in. Microsoft wants a gaming player and his custom settings and accounts to work across *all* platforms, Sony PS4 too. For example you travel to the lodge in the winter and your snowbound or your in your cruise ship and you have an internet console, you can log in and play on your PC account games and your toons on a new system you have never been on before. The same interchangeability if you have home PC and then decide to use big screen xbone with same profile.

 

You will also notice that 'play anywhere' is a real thing that is happening on several MMO'S A 64bit console built today has very nice AMD multicore chip and GPU.

 

In the past we had land lines and VCR'S today we have MMO 'play anywhere', yes they are working the final kinks out for wireless console mouse and other controls but it's a real thing.

 

Also coming is Windows 10 S edition that is closer to xbox than old Windows 10, except it's for your PC. You go to the Windows store to flip it to Windows Pro if you want extra features or run other games like SWTOR.

 

MAC is also emerging more games over time but bootcamp or vine is needed for SWTOR.

Edited July 26, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[IntegrationArch]

We've been saying this since launch, Tux. At some point, we have to realize EA just isn't going to commit to the game, and sadly, take all the WRONG lessons out of it, which is something I only can surmise because every step of the way since launch, the rolling development teams seem to target all the things that people loved about the original game and spit on them/ignore them.

 

How can anyone get EA'S attention for course correction?

Edited July 26, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[AshlaBoga]

Look at this boss just how cool is it - this is amazing

 

Honestly, I don't like JRPG animation, but to each their own.

[fushnchips]

Honestly, I don't like JRPG animation, but to each their own.

 

Yeah I understand it but that boss was so amazing the mechanics alone scare me to even try it lol then again you need to get upto it passed the previous versions in savage mode.

[IntegrationArch]

that flash link has a virus so delete please

[Icykill_]

There is absolutely ZERO proof of his specious claims that it would pay for itself. In fact.. so many of his ideas are so over the top, and he refuses to listen to any other viewpoints.... that I just put him on ignore a while ago.

 

EA knows better then anyone what the ROI is on porting products across platforms. And in the MMO space, there is no real evidence of multi-platform being worth the effort and investment. It's two completely different demographics between those that chase after MMOs and those that chase after console games. There is clearly a reason that there are very few MMO ports past the standard PC platform.

 

Besides... this is a decision you make early in game design.. like FFXIV did.... NOT years after launch. FFXIV actually had a clear business reason to design for multi-platform from the start.

 

Tell you what.... when Blizzard (who has the resources) ports WoW to consoles... I'll concede the point on the idea. But I advise none of us hold our breath on this fantasy demand. http://segmentnext.com/2016/08/29/world-of-warcraft-console-release/ ** Oh... there are plenty of similar specious demands and allegations of it paying for itself to port to consoles in the WoW forums.....and it reads like an echo of the nonsense here.

 

** and in the same article I linked.. it also looks like Blizzard has decided to pull the plug on some types of Addons. Probably the ones that tell players specifically not to do stupid things like standing in fire, etc. Which pretty well demonstrates that not every player idea is a good idea.

 

I couldn't see swtor going console even if they did reboot. MMO games like WoW and Swtor as an example would seem to be in a category that make it more difficult to have cross platform. I think this is mainly because of the combat systems and the amount of abilities for the classes. Console controllers wouldn't have enough button combinations to accomodate all the abilities currently in the games.

But that may change when Microsoft release their next console which is really only a PC in an Xbox case and Windows 10 makes porting the game to Xbox feasible, but Playstation would be completely different.

For Xbox all people would need is a feasible keyboard-mouse setup to play on the lounge, which is already available from Corsair.

 

It's good to see Blizzard are finally changing their direction on Addons. But It will require them to make a proper GUI. I would suggest they take a page out of Bio's playbook of copying WoW and Blizzard should copy swtors GUI customisation. It really is an excellent GUI.

 

Edit : after reading that article it would seem that Blizzard have stopped short of removing Addons because it is nearly 12 months on and Addons are still a major part of that game.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Icykill_

[IntegrationArch]

https://www.howtogeek.com/250624/how-to-connect-a-mouse-and-keyboard-to-your-playstation-4/

 

if the PS4/xbone sees the keyboard or programmable 8 button mouse then it can be used in a console game,

 

call of duty and battlefront have had mod-able wireless controllers from several companies for years with extra buttons and multi function paddles all around

Edited July 27, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[Soljin]

Sad state of affairs... So many people still around because it's Star Wars and EA has a choke hold on the IP for games...talk about the worst mistake ever...

[Icykill_]

How can anyone get EA'S attention for course correction?

 

It's a shame Disney haven't caught wind of how EA are mishandling their IP. Maybe they don't care or maybe killing of this game is part of their plan.

But you have to wonder if Disney know or not and if they'd care if they did.

I can imaging if they did care and found out it they might force EAs hand. But how do you bring it to the right peoples attention without knowing someone in the right department at Disney and them having the power to do something.

I guess you could do a public campaign on something like twitter and copy Disney in, but that could backfire.

There is always contacting Lucas Arts who are still sort of involved, but who knows how much.

But it could be for naught anyway if Disney already know and don't care,

I think the only way to get EAs attention is if Bioware push hard and make the case.

[Icykill_]

https://www.howtogeek.com/250624/how-to-connect-a-mouse-and-keyboard-to-your-playstation-4/

 

if the PS4/xbone sees the keyboard or programmable 8 button mouse then it can be used in a console game,

 

call of duty and battlefront have had mod-able wireless controllers from several companies for years with extra buttons and multi function paddles all around

 

I was thinking more along the lines of the Corsair Lapdog which should work fairly seemlessly with an Xbox Windows 10 platform. Most likely the new Xbox One X due out at the end of the year.

http://www.corsair.com/en-us/landing/lapdog

 

Edit : I've not been big into consoles since the Nintendo 64. I've had the original xBox and PS3, but I'm not a massive fan of sitting on the lounge to play games and I personally dislike console controllers.

I've been anticipating the Xbox one X and thinking I might get back into consoles with it, but after reading the press and reviews of it I'm now not so sure. It seems you can play xBox games on a Windows 10 PC these days so why would you buy something inferior to your PC. Why not build you own "console", ie a media centre in a small form factor case if it can play xBox games? Correct me if I'm wrong here because Im a little confused.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Icykill_

[BJWyler]

It's a shame Disney haven't caught wind of how EA are mishandling their IP. Maybe they don't care or maybe killing of this game is part of their plan.

But you have to wonder if Disney know or not and if they'd care if they did.

I can imaging if they did care and found out it they might force EAs hand. But how do you bring it to the right peoples attention without knowing someone in the right department at Disney and them having the power to do something.

I guess you could do a public campaign on something like twitter and copy Disney in, but that could backfire.

There is always contacting Lucas Arts who are still sort of involved, but who knows how much.

But it could be for naught anyway if Disney already know and don't care,

I think the only way to get EAs attention is if Bioware push hard and make the case.

 

Mishandling according to who? The problem here is perspective. We as players and gamers know what we want from each and every game we play - which of course is dictated by our own unique individual tastes and desires - which makes developing games a very tricky business to begin with.

 

At the end of the day, in the corporate world, maximizing profit is the core focus of business. Could SWTOR be more profitable? Probably, but what kinds of costs would need to be incurred in order to make it more profitable and would that cost, and any additional ongoing increases in those costs be offset by any increase in profit that might be seen? We obviously have the advantage of being armchair quarterbacks with no real knowledge of what it takes to keep this game in operation. It could very well be that the number crunchers in the corporate offices have evaluated the costs and risks and just didn't see anything to justify making any further investments to the game.

 

What SqEn did was exceptional, but it is also an exception to the rule. Just because they were able to do it doesn't mean it would work for any other MMO out there; just like what happened with WoW most likely will never be repeated - even by Blizzard themselves. The right game, at the right place, at the right time. Easier said then done.

 

The one thing I would like to see happen in this industry is for MMOs to be developed with the sunset date in mind, and thus to allow players to be able to continue to play said game after the servers are taken offline as a single-player game. It would seem a logical thing to do considering how many MMOs are still going after 20-odd years with a dedicated playerbase, while others already gone still have large devoted followings. More money in the bank, right? Then why hasn't one single developer of an MMO made any attempt to do so? It's just not worth doing it in the end.

[Icykill_]

Mishandling according to who? The problem here is perspective. We as players and gamers know what we want from each and every game we play - which of course is dictated by our own unique individual tastes and desires - which makes developing games a very tricky business to begin with.

 

At the end of the day, in the corporate world, maximizing profit is the core focus of business. Could SWTOR be more profitable? Probably, but what kinds of costs would need to be incurred in order to make it more profitable and would that cost, and any additional ongoing increases in those costs be offset by any increase in profit that might be seen? We obviously have the advantage of being armchair quarterbacks with no real knowledge of what it takes to keep this game in operation. It could very well be that the number crunchers in the corporate offices have evaluated the costs and risks and just didn't see anything to justify making any further investments to the game.

 

What SqEn did was exceptional, but it is also an exception to the rule. Just because they were able to do it doesn't mean it would work for any other MMO out there; just like what happened with WoW most likely will never be repeated - even by Blizzard themselves. The right game, at the right place, at the right time. Easier said then done.

 

The one thing I would like to see happen in this industry is for MMOs to be developed with the sunset date in mind, and thus to allow players to be able to continue to play said game after the servers are taken offline as a single-player game. It would seem a logical thing to do considering how many MMOs are still going after 20-odd years with a dedicated playerbase, while others already gone still have large devoted followings. More money in the bank, right? Then why hasn't one single developer of an MMO made any attempt to do so? It's just not worth doing it in the end.

 

It's my opinion it's been mishandled... nothing more... but I know many agree.

[IntegrationArch]

I was thinking more along the lines of the Corsair Lapdog which should work fairly seemlessly with an Xbox Windows 10 platform. Most likely the new Xbox One X due out at the end of the year.

http://www.corsair.com/en-us/landing/lapdog Edit : I've not been big into consoles since the Nintendo 64. I've had the original xBox and PS3, but I'm not a massive fan of sitting on the lounge to play games and I personally dislike console controllers. I've been anticipating the Xbox one X and thinking I might get back into consoles with it, but after reading the press and reviews of it I'm now not so sure. It seems you can play xBox games on a Windows 10 PC these days so why would you buy something inferior to your PC. Why not build you own "console", ie a media centre in a small form factor case if it can play xBox games? Correct me if I'm wrong here because Im a little confused.

 

The idea here is that BW/EA could 4x to 10x the player base by expanding into XBONE X/S & PS4/5 and AOS game consoels reusing all the same video, story, actor wave files, mechanics, art ect way less costly and faster if they wanted too. The 64 bit platform would allow them to debug all the problems with Visual Studio debugging tools too.

 

they could leave older players on 32 bit and allow all the 64 bit consoles and PC'S to move up to DX.11.1 and progress to DX12 Dolby Vision 5K The need to upgrade the game launcher or just use the EA Origin 64 BIT one. Then the game could be ported to DX11 and have amazing frame rates in PVP /OPS because all CPU/GPU cores would be working finally.

Edited July 27, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[Icykill_]

The idea here is that BW/EA could 4x to 10x the player base by expanding into XBONE X/S & PS4/5 and AOS game consoels reusing all the same video, story, actor wave files, mechanics, art ect way less costly and faster if they wanted too. The 64 bit platform would allow them to debug all the problems with Visual Studio debugging tools too.

 

they could leave older players on 32 bit and allow all the 64 bit consoles and PC'S to move up to DX.11.1 and progress to DX12 Dolby Vision 5K The need to upgrade the game launcher or just use the EA Origin 64 BIT one. Then the game could be ported to DX11 and have amazing frame rates in PVP /OPS because all CPU/GPU cores would be working finally.

 

Don't get me wrong, I can see the business case to be made for it.

[Tsillah]

It's my opinion it's been mishandled... nothing more... but I know many agree.

 

Since they've worked closely with Lucasarts from the getgo, I am not convinced the business guys think it's been mishandled. I suspect that as long as it made them money, they'll be happy enough.

 

There really can be a big difference between what a customer finds successful and what a company finds successful.

[Nebdar]

So i was thinking.....

The community 'knows' what to do to make the game better

The community 'knows' what to is the reasons why Bioware can't deliver all the things that will make SWTOR great again

The community 'knows' that almost sole reason of all of this 'bad management/development' is the EA's policy(s)

So...

Why not gather our strength (money) in some kind of starter program and buy as much shares of EA as possible so as partial owners/shareholders/investors we may have an say or greater insight in EA/BW budget/policy:rak_02:

 

It would be also an good test of how strong or weak is the community and its will to really invest something into this game( not just consuming this game )

 

I know that one of our community member is an shareholder in BW, maybe he or she could give more insight in this matter...

 

one of my... wall of crazy ideas... inspired by this thread.. because

If you can't change them (EA), if you can't force them (EA) maybe it is time to join them..... and make an difference form inside?

Edited July 27, 2017 by Nebdar

[Andryah]

So i was thinking.....

The community 'knows' what to do to make the game better

The community 'knows' what to is the reasons why Bioware can't deliver all the things that will make SWTOR great again

The community 'knows' that almost sole reason of all of this 'bad management/development' is the EA's policy(s)

So...

Why not gather our strength (money) in some kind of starter program and buy as much shares of EA as possible so as partial owners/shareholders/investors we may have an say or greater insight in EA/BW budget/policy:rak_02:

 

It would be also an good test of how strong or weak is the community and its will to really invest something into this game( not just consuming this game )

 

I know that one of our community member is an shareholder in BW, maybe he or she could give more insight in this matter...

 

one of my... wall of crazy ideas... inspired by this thread.. because

If you can't change them (EA), if you can't force them (EA) maybe it is time to join them..... and make an difference form inside?

 

OK... well you went off topic.... but....

 

LOL..... but credit for a new twist on the pitchforks & torches role play.

 

As of June, 2017... EA had ~310 million shares outstanding, at a current average trade value of $115+ per share https://ycharts.com/companies/EA/shares_outstanding https://ycharts.com/companies/EA

 

That is a market capitalization of $36 Billion.

 

The vast majority of outstanding shares are held by institutional traders... who can and will vote their financial interests, NOT specifically pet player interests. http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ea/institutional-holdings Besides... EA has a wide portfolio of products and services, and SWTOR is only one smaller facet of the total book of business.

 

No grass roots effort can put any notable dent into share ownership (leverage), and as such is a waste of time. So you need a better role play.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

It's a shame Disney haven't caught wind of how EA are mishandling their IP. Maybe they don't care or maybe killing of this game is part of their plan.

But you have to wonder if Disney know or not and if they'd care if they did.

I can imaging if they did care and found out it they might force EAs hand. But how do you bring it to the right peoples attention without knowing someone in the right department at Disney and them having the power to do something.

I guess you could do a public campaign on something like twitter and copy Disney in, but that could backfire.

There is always contacting Lucas Arts who are still sort of involved, but who knows how much.

But it could be for naught anyway if Disney already know and don't care,

I think the only way to get EAs attention is if Bioware push hard and make the case.

 

SWTOR is NOT a notable part of the total use of the IP by EA though. It's just that you have an overly large sense of power to persuade Disney or EA or even Bioware Studios to do things your way.

 

You can bet that Disney and EA sit down together each quarter and report-out and review business performance for the Star Wars IP as product and services. So I'm sure if Disney has any issues with the size of their royalty payments (which for a service like the SWTOR component of their business is I'm sure revenue based) they can and will put pressure on EA accordingly. Clearly, if that is the case... the two companies are working together to address any business issues (which of course is at a higher level of business interaction... not down into the details about any one particular use of the IP).

Edited July 27, 2017 by Andryah