About the idea for 242 requirement for MM FP...

[ZionHalcyon]

I don't mind the gear requirement for master mode flashpoints. However I do suggest the following trade off then. Increase the decoration drop rates for master mode flashpoints. Think of it as an extra incentive for gearing up and doing Master mode flashpoints.

[VirtualMorrigan]

It's a blatant attempt to enforce the CXP grind. Nothing else. Even if they "listen to reason" the same way a venor in a bazaar would and lower it to Tier 2, the fact remains. Anything to keep people grinding.

[Thruine]

One thing that will help is to have ALL master modes available either in story or veteran mode so people can learn just the basics of the flashpoint. I did Lost Island (badly and incomplete) in Master Mode the first time because that was the only way I could use group finder. I suffered from a couple of things. Skill being the first but not knowing my way around or what sort of things the bosses could do worked against me. I had to watch a video from someone to just learn what the bosses were capable of and how to traverse the map. Should I really be doing that outside the game? Skill probably didn't improve but at least I won't be a total noob next time (if there is).

 

But having a set gear limitation does make sense to me. At least it tells someone who doesn't know that this is much tougher than what you may think.

[robertthebard]

If you don't have 242 gear then get good son.

 

If only having it translated to being good... Sadly, it doesn't. It just as easily signifies that one was carried by said guilds..

[Andryah]

People have been asking for a gear check on some of these flashpoints and this might be a reason they are doing this, but 242 is a bit too high especially if you don't play that much. Sure you can make some but there are still some 242 gear I haven't gotten on my crafters yet so it is very possible even crafting isn't going to help there.

 

I agree.. people have been screaming for a gear check mechanic in hard content through GF, and this is the classic way MMOs approach it. So I think this is a good approach by the studio and they are not retrofitting other FPs immediately, but rather launching a new one with the new mechanics and if it does not work out well I doubt they will extend it back into older FPs.

 

242 is by no means top end gear anymore, so it seems a reasonable point to gear check for the high end of the FP difficulty via GF. 246 crafted gear is available at prices similar to what crafted 240s used to early in 5.x... in other words, well within reach for most players, particularly if they are part of a guild that has a crafting process set up to bypass most of the gearing from GC.

 

Note: this does not appear to stop players from grouping for MM with under 242 gear, it's just that it will not allow you to do so through the Group Finder (you know.. where all the scrubs show up in empty shells and rely on bolster and better geared players to "carry them".)

 

I think it is a reasonable compromise approach from the studio. And FPs are NOT a primary pathway to gear, they are mean to be played for the sake of playing them. People working on gearing have multiple pathways to better gear in game now.

 

Personally, I am surprised people are not more upset about putting a new stronghold behind a wall of having to play the new FP multiple times to gain access to it.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

One thing that will help is to have ALL master modes available either in story or veteran mode so people can learn just the basics of the flashpoint.

 

I agree with this.

[Kyrra_T]

I agree with this.

 

Story modes dont have the same mechanics as master mode. Some veteren modes do but not all. And all flashpoints already have the 3 modes.

[casirabit]

Story modes dont have the same mechanics as master mode. Some veteren modes do but not all. And all flashpoints already have the 3 modes.

 

Not all. there are still some flashpoints that do not have a story mode.

 

These do not have any story mode: (as of today since I have been running story flashpoints today)

 

Hammer Station

Athiss

Mandalorian Raiders

Cademimu

Red Reaper

Kuat Drive Yards

Czerka Labs

Czerka Core Meltdown

Kaon Under Siege

Lost Island

[MacCleoud]

If they are going to implement a gear requirement, then RNG needs to go. MM also needs to reward the higher gear requirement with something somewhat substantial. I mean at this point, I am duoing MM's as two sneaks and two comps in 236-240 gear. (Yes we stealth trash, but that is a little beside the point of this).

 

We do our three MM's for the week and that is all we do. There are no big rewards for doing MM's after completing the weekly. We can run HMs at a speed that makes our CXP per hour faster through HMs. Add some UC's or something and make it worth running after the weekly.

[RikuvonDrake]

I think having more options that you could "tick in" when you sign up for Group Finder content, in particular, Master Mode, would be great. Apart from the gear requirement which in itself is a great idea Bioware should additionally consider adding an "achievement" requirement, meaning that you can only be matched with players who (just like you) have already cleared the specific flashpoint before.

 

Now, naturally that would be something optional to enable for people who prefer that, but I think that is a great way to develop and improve on the Group Finder feature as well as to ensure more capable player start using it instead of creating groups via fleet/guild/custom channels.

Edited July 23, 2017 by RikuvonDrake

[krfsm]

All that said, IMO the new MM FP requiring 242 might be a little high for the rest of the HM FPs. Although this might be a viable opportunity to re-implement "level requirements" on FPs in general.

 

One of the biggest complaints with the new bolstered FPs is that very low level characters can get into FPs that were originally designed for the level cap (of the time). Even VM Forged Alliances FPs can be challenging to a teens - 20s level character.

 

So with a new rating requirement system they can implement a limitation on what FPs a given character can queue for without going back in time to an actual level requirement. For example a teens level character used to be able to do ess/bt, Hammer Station and Athiss; the best gear a teens character can have is rating 72 (plucking a number from the air so don't yell at me for getting this wrong). So going forward maybe a character with an average rating 68 gear set cannot queue for anything but ess/bt, HS, and Athiss. And as the average gear improves they can queue for additional FPs.

 

Why make it so darn hard? If they haven't changed it lately bolster in HMFPs put you at about 220 item level. It's probably a one row code change to change bolster to something a bit more compelling - 242 sounds over the top, but maybe somewhere around 230-236. That takes care of most gear related problems for level 70s. (Possibly they should give people augment bolster in FPs as they do in warzones. That would make a bit of impact as well.)

 

The second problem is lower levels, both in HM and VM (and, incidentally PVP). This is due to bolster doing exactly what it says on the tin - giving everybody roughly the stats of 220 gear. Unfortunately for lower levels it doesn't compensate for missing skills.

 

Let's have a look at what a level 50 is missing. We'll use vengeance juggernaut as an example:

• Savagery - no autocrit on force scream. That's in the ball park of 40% less damage on that ability every 6 gcds.
  
• Deafening defense - major increase of survivability.
  
• Vengeful slam - considerable damage boost over smash. Maybe 25-30% extra on this every 6 gcds.
  
• Destroyer - free Hew. I don't even know what I would put in here instead, but it's good damage and refunds rage.
  
• Gushing veins - 5% crit chance extra on about 40% of you damage.
  
• Bloodmaster - extra damage on bleeds. Probably about 5% extra damage on those, and they are about 20% of the damage.
  
• Three less utility points, including Piercing Chill which is important for max damage, especially for AoE.
  

 

Maybe someone should retune bolster so a level 50 didn't just get the same 220 stats as a level 70, but actually got compensated for that considerable loss of damage. I can't say for sure, and it's a ***** to test this, but my guess the stuff above leads to about 15-20% less damage. Thus, make sure the level 50 gets extra stats causing about 15-20% extra damage on top of current bolster.

 

This also balances lowbie and midbie warzones, as an added bonus.

 

While they're at it, they can go ahead and give people armor bolster in SM ops if they haven't already. It's there in FPs, so how hard can it be to do the same in ops?

[RikuvonDrake]

Lots of text.

 

Bolster is at 238 not 220, apart from that your post makes perfect sense, lack of endgame gear isn't the key issue, lack of endgame abilities is a big factor and additionally why kicking lowbies in Hardmode Flashpoints assembled via Group Finder mostly makes the run much smoother.

Edited July 23, 2017 by RikuvonDrake

[JediTahiri]

lol yeah take out the undergeared players as well. Great that will make the queue times even longer. I sit in GF for Veteran and Master Uprisings for 40 mins, flashpoints are no different and I am a TANK!. It's becoming pointless to even play. I don't PVP so It's not fun just sitting in a queue all day.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

You're kidding, right?

 

well. it took me about ..... 10 minutes to gear up my sniper & operative... & jug. they now all have 246-248 mods / enhancements / hits / barrels / ear / implants / relics and 6 230 armorings for set bonus. sooo nope, i don't think he's kidding lol.:D

[krfsm]

Bolster is at 238 not 220, apart from that your post makes perfect sense, lack of endgame gear isn't the key issue, lack of endgame abilities is a big factor and additionally why kicking lowbies in Hardmode Flashpoints assembled via Group Finder mostly makes the run much smoother.

 

Are you sure you're talking about HMFP bolster and not warzone bolster, because traditionally they've not been to the same item level and haven't given the same stats?

[Tsillah]

lol yeah take out the undergeared players as well. Great that will make the queue times even longer. I sit in GF for Veteran and Master Uprisings for 40 mins, flashpoints are no different and I am a TANK!. It's becoming pointless to even play. I don't PVP so It's not fun just sitting in a queue all day.

 

At the same time, it might encourage other players to queue again that don't now because they are tired of ill geared idiots dominating the pugs.

[Eli_Porter]

At the same time, it might encourage other players to queue again that don't now because they are tired of ill geared idiots dominating the pugs.

 

Problem is that said idiots don't have problems reaching 242 thanks to GC.

 

You wanna filter idiots, check for fully augmented 228+ gear.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Problem is that said idiots don't have problems reaching 242 thanks to GC.

 

You wanna filter idiots, check for fully augmented 228+ gear.

 

nah that might not help either

cause augments are easy, if a bit expensive u need to augment more than 1 toon lol. it's the ability to not stand in **** that really matters and not spamming button #1 over and over lol. and i dunno how to make that happen lol:D:D

[robertthebard]

At the same time, it might encourage other players to queue again that don't now because they are tired of ill geared idiots dominating the pugs.

 

Doubtful. What the idiots did for our guild, back in the day, was made us make premades to run GF queues. Those idiots ranged from under geared and under skilled to properly geared and under skilled. Achieving a gear score in no way indicates any level of skill on the part of the person having it. For all I know, they got that gear in a Guild progression group, where they were carried all the way, and never had to, or bothered to learn the mechanics. So how are we to know which idiots are being kept out?

[notanjelika]

I have two problems with the 242 gear requirement:

 

- i did master mode flashpoints with my friends and random people and survived, had only 210 ranking gear, not augmented

- this flashpoint will be only for a limited group of people, this is unfair for the other subscribers - new players especially. we, the non-pvp-ers, the non 242 geared players, what do we get? no returning companions, no access to flashpoint, this is not ok.

[RikuvonDrake]

I have two problems with the 242 gear requirement:

 

- i did master mode flashpoints with my friends and random people and survived, had only 210 ranking gear, not augmented

- this flashpoint will be only for a limited group of people, this is unfair for the other subscribers - new players especially. we, the non-pvp-ers, the non 242 geared players, what do we get? no returning companions, no access to flashpoint, this is not ok.

 

I feel that you are just reading titles here and missing out on a lot fo the context, the new flashpoint on master mode is supposed to be more difficult than the past ones, I understand you ran some easy flashpoint in 210 gear (Cause I guess it wasn't Blood Hunt or Battle of Rishi) and then you are trying to apply that example to the new flashpoint. Naturally, such an argument simply doesn't make sense, you cannot compare apples with oranges.

 

All players will still be able to play Story as well as Veteran mode which is tuned for the standard/average skill level player while you gear up to ensure you can contribute towards a Master Mode group. Again tho, if you have three friends or create a group via fleet chat/custom channels you will still be able to enter without using Group Finder.

[-Highsteel-]

In general sounds like a good idea, but your points on gearing most likely aren't the problem is right. Also BW can not limit content to paying customers period. Rather or not it might be a good thing is irrelevant.

[Tsillah]

Problem is that said idiots don't have problems reaching 242 thanks to GC.

 

You wanna filter idiots, check for fully augmented 228+ gear.

 

Well, I do want to point something out here. The 242 requirement is for Umbara and Keith says that if successful they will do something SIMILAR for other HM FPs.

 

So people should not assume that all HM FPs will get the same gear requirements.

 

Out of curiosity...I haven't really done the new FPs in HM because I gave up on FPs about 2-3 years ago. Would you say augments are neede for HM FPs?

[casirabit]

In general sounds like a good idea, but your points on gearing most likely aren't the problem is right. Also BW can not limit content to paying customers period. Rather or not it might be a good thing is irrelevant.

 

They are not stopping you from grouping up with your friends or guild. Just having a gear requirement when you use group pickups but still not sure how they will do the guild requirement since some people (like me) are from the old way of augmenting their gear no matter what others say.

[notanjelika]

I feel that you are just reading titles here and missing out on a lot fo the context, the new flashpoint on master mode is supposed to be more difficult than the past ones, I understand you ran some easy flashpoint in 210 gear (Cause I guess it wasn't Blood Hunt or Battle of Rishi) and then you are trying to apply that example to the new flashpoint. Naturally, such an argument simply doesn't make sense, you cannot compare apples with oranges.

 

All players will still be able to play Story as well as Veteran mode which is tuned for the standard/average skill level player while you gear up to ensure you can contribute towards a Master Mode group. Again tho, if you have three friends or create a group via fleet chat/custom channels you will still be able to enter without using Group Finder.

 

No one said the new flashpoint will have a veteran mode or a story mode.So, what exactly do i get as a subscriber?