Sorc performance in 5.3

[Icykill_]

The hybrid healer classes have a chance of actually killing someone while staying alive. The Sorc healer has only 1 job, healing. Heal self, heal others and stay alive as much as possible. You'll almost never see a healer sorc kill someone by himself. His DPS comes from the people he is keeping alive.

 

So nerfs that go too far eliminates his ability to heal people around him, meaning he no longer has DPS. And it cuts into his ability to stay alive. So a sorc healers job now is to hit the bubble, phase walk to a somewhat predictable spot they will find you and kill you at, or not queue. What helps the team more, not queueing does. Too bad for all non-merc non-sniper classes that wont have a role anymore without healing too.

 

LoL... hybrid Sorc healers are Pointless now... I can hardly heal myself, let alone a team mate... the only time I've been able to do it since the nerf was in an Arena where my team mate was on a Jugg and the opposition completely left me alone... he was pumping out twice as much damage as I could and it takes longer to to kill a Jugg... so my mediocre healing was enough to keep him alive to finish them off.. they were two really bad Sins.

[Stellarcrusade]

LoL... hybrid Sorc healers are Pointless now... I can hardly heal myself, let alone a team mate... the only time I've been able to do it since the nerf was in an Arena where my team mate was on a Jugg and the opposition completely left me alone... he was pumping out twice as much damage as I could and it takes longer to to kill a Jugg... so my mediocre healing was enough to keep him alive to finish them off.. they were two really bad Sins.

 

You are probably right Icy, but poor performance of your healer-hybrid only emphasizes my points. If there is too little healing coming out of the hybrid classes, the fix isn't to remove the heal-only class, that just makes the group heals issue worse. Your issue is completely a completely separate but also valid one. These metrics that they say they have to determine if a class is performing as expected, for the hybrid classes should factor in how much dps/utility you provide balaced with your healing to match that of the only-healing of a sorc healer. Meaning your spec probably needs a buff to dps, utility or healing so the sum total matches that of the only-healing of sorc.

 

The general concept that MMOs have heal-only class-specs and numerous hybrid-healers remains valid, its up to designers to give ALL class specs a role that is worth playing in both PvP and PvE, and it appears they have failed horribly. Instead we give mercs and sorcs the expansion to do with what they please. I realize every expansion should feature different classes to give people an excuse to try different classes and roles, but it has to be done in a way that doesn't completely nerf everything else.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I realize every expansion should feature different classes to give people an excuse to try different classes and roles, but it has to be done in a way that doesn't completely nerf everything else.

 

Well said.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

This was a few days before 5.3. I would say it's not relevant now, but do agree as far as Sorc heals not being as doomed as many make it out to believe.

 

Yeah, that was my bad, sorry bout that. Got a couple more than I'm sure are post 5.3. These are the last one's I'll share, than leave it to people to make their own judgements. Like I orginally said, I just wanted to show what some people are doing so other's can see where the potentials are. Obviously there are different skill levels involved, group make up always plays a part, pre-mades have their effects, lots of things play into it.

 

Doesn't speak to the state of the class of overall, just what's possible.

 

 

https://ibb.co/i0Crcv

https://ibb.co/jwPexv

https://ibb.co/gpjOPa

 

These ones are good because they have wide spectrum of the classes represented so there isn't too much of any one class in most cases.

[Jake_Chambers]

I'm in full 248 and my roaming mend in granked against a pt tank literally crits for 9k feelsbadman. Also aids carb is back it's fine for regs but honestly for group ranked even merc might be stronger now Edited July 15, 2017 by Jake_Chambers

[Icykill_]

You are probably right Icy, but poor performance of your healer-hybrid only emphasizes my points. If there is too little healing coming out of the hybrid classes, the fix isn't to remove the heal-only class, that just makes the group heals issue worse. Your issue is completely a completely separate but also valid one. These metrics that they say they have to determine if a class is performing as expected, for the hybrid classes should factor in how much dps/utility you provide balaced with your healing to match that of the only-healing of a sorc healer. Meaning your spec probably needs a buff to dps, utility or healing so the sum total matches that of the only-healing of sorc.

 

The general concept that MMOs have heal-only class-specs and numerous hybrid-healers remains valid, its up to designers to give ALL class specs a role that is worth playing in both PvP and PvE, and it appears they have failed horribly. Instead we give mercs and sorcs the expansion to do with what they please. I realize every expansion should feature different classes to give people an excuse to try different classes and roles, but it has to be done in a way that doesn't completely nerf everything else.

 

I very rarely off heal people. Most of my healing is directed towards myself. I'd even be happy if they made all heals, self heals and remove off healing.

[Stellarcrusade]

I very rarely off heal people. Most of my healing is directed towards myself. I'd even be happy if they made all heals, self heals and remove off healing.

 

Your suggestion is legit, but only for your hybrid class. Your class needs to be buffed to the point where you can keep yourself healed easily in a 1v1 and still put out some damage. In a 2v1 you'd have to LoS and heal yourself completely. Your role would be excellent self heals and ALSO some dps mixed in. It has to be both or the class is worthless.

 

Same goes for the heal-only class (sorcs). Since their primary job is to heal others so that those others can act as your DPS you have to be able to survive very well and at the same time be healing others. If someone chooses to burn one of the 1 team slots by joining as a heal-others-class then that healer should be able to keep enough DPS flowing from the people he is healing as he would have given out himself had he chosen to play a merc, beyond the amount of time they would have normally been alive w/o a healer there. Yeah I know that's a simplified statement which needs to consider the dynamic of the time it takes people who die to get back to battle and the import of the group size skirmish advantage etc but you get the point. There is a certain amount of DPS from OTHERS that this healer has to be directly responsible for in order to justify his place on the team. And that amount is pretty high. If someone can solo tie up a healer for the war and he isn't gaining a goal objective like guarding a node, such that the healer isn't healing group mates, then its a worthless class in PvP at that point.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Stellarcrusade

[Icykill_]

Your suggestion is legit, but only for your hybrid class. Your class needs to be buffed to the point where you can keep yourself healed easily in a 1v1 and still put out some damage. In a 2v1 you'd have to LoS and heal yourself completely. Your role would be excellent self heals and ALSO some dps mixed in. It has to be both or the class is worthless.

 

I really do believe there should be no off tanking or off healing. Then there would be no hybrid classes. That would take out one of those things that makes balancing difficult for Bioware. It also means those classes that were hybrid, would then be free to focus on their main roles properly.

[Icykill_]

Someone just replied to a post of mine about lightning Sorcs in the Bioware " how they gear thread "..

 

Well, we disagree. With mobility, stuns and roots on top of shields, I don't think they went far enough. Lightning is the one class that seems to have it all. The last thing they need is to hit like a truck on top of it. Still too strong so hopefully they'll see the bat when they get around to utilities. Then maybe look at their damage. But not before then.

 

Either this person is trolling or is just so wrong in the head they should get checked.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Icykill_

[verfallen]

Someone just replied to a post of mine about lightning Sorcs in the Bioware " how they gear thread "..

 

 

 

Either this person is trolling or is just so wrong in the head they should get checked.

 

while maybe a tad too positive about it, he is not entirely wrong either.

 

Lightning does have very good self-heal, mobility and escapes, on top of some pretty good pressure for a burst dps. And yes the burst is there, but not as readily availaible as say an MM sniper, but not as many cooldowns mitigate sorc either, vs the all white damage of MM. But set right you'll squeeze 70-75% of your damage of one "rotation" in a 6 second window, and polarity shift pressure is pretty impressive.

 

overall in pvp its not in a totally bad place, and once the class with overperforming defenses gets brought down, it will shine better, as they too wont be able to just facetank you anymore.

[Icykill_]

while maybe a tad too positive about it, he is not entirely wrong either.

 

Lightning does have very good self-heal, mobility and escapes, on top of some pretty good pressure for a burst dps. And yes the burst is there, but not as readily availaible as say an MM sniper, but not as many cooldowns mitigate sorc either, vs the all white damage of MM. But set right you'll squeeze 70-75% of your damage of one "rotation" in a 6 second window, and polarity shift pressure is pretty impressive.

 

overall in pvp its not in a totally bad place, and once the class with overperforming defenses gets brought down, it will shine better, as they too wont be able to just facetank you anymore.

 

You would need to nerf most classes defenses to make Lightning Sorc dps useful. Madness seems to be doing ok now and every match I've been in with madness Sorcs they do double lightning damage.

If they were to boost our dps to a reasonable lvl I could live with the heal/defensive nerfs. I even said something similar 3-4 months back about taking a small survivability nerf in favour of better dps.

The issue is they nerfed survivability and gave no dps buff. If the were going to nerf they should buff at the same time like they did with madness.

I can tell you from first hand experience that the only class I can beat if players are competent is another lightning Sorc. That is in no way balanced or even close. Someone has to be incompetent for a lightning Sorc to 1v1 and kill them.

[Greggeh]

First off, I'm going to say the nerfs were needed. For PvP. I mean, I could go to a node and harass other team for a whole pylon round by myself so they couldn't cap theirs. So for Pvp, I can still hold out against 1 great DPS, or two average DPS. The only thing that upset me was that Sorcs REALLY weren't as OP as everyone said. Yes, they needed some form of nerf. But who here has gone up against a merc heals that just WILL NOT DIE. You want to talk about to much survivability, look at Mercs. Ops, can't take focused damage, but maaan can they put out AoE heals, way more so than any Sorc, and yet we had BOTH out AoE heals nerfed. So we went from Over performing in some areas, but still low in others, to just worse all around.

 

The place I'm really feeling the impact is NiM content. Burn phases, like Brontes, are just cancer. Single target heals were our specialty, but cast times are so long, and have been weakened to a point, that it's completely destroyed our burst capabilities. On trash pulls I could put out 18-21k HPS before, now I'm lucky to pull 13k HPS. Most trash mods and bosses only need 12-15k at most, but we've lost the potential to really push them out when they're needed.

[frosttj]

I can tell you from first hand experience that the only class I can beat if players are competent is another lightning Sorc. That is in no way balanced or even close. Someone has to be incompetent for a lightning Sorc to 1v1 and kill them.

 

I really wish we could stop discussing 1v1s as a scale of balance. I'm not disagreeing that lightning could use some help, but buffing for 1v1 will not scale in terms of 4v4 and 8v8. Because to me, that's how you end up with 5.0 era mercs/snipers. Tons of defensives/off healing, great burst, and mobility to top the cake. It made them competitive vs any class and allows them to essentially parse in WZs with a guard and a healer.

 

I personally think if the class you love to play is underperforming that we shouldn't be looking up, but hoping they bring the over tuned down to the lesser levels. It's like every major patch just starts an arms race. Oh mercs get 3 lives, so X class should have 3 lives. Or just say screw it, and have everyone flying around with jet packs with all burst AOE rotations and a heal 2 full on a 15 sec CD. And get it over with.

[Icykill_]

Once again they've completely ignored Lightning Sorcs in 5.4

 

[*]Class balance – The following Disciplines are receiving changes (details will follow in the next few weeks):

• Lethality / Ruffian
  
• Concealment / Scrapper
  
• Medicine / Sawbones
  
• Fury / Concentration
  
• Carnage / Combat
  

[*]

 

Stupid... glad I unsubbed

Edited July 22, 2017 by Icykill_

[Equeliber]

Once again they've completely ignored Lightning Sorcs in 5.4

 

 

 

Stupid... glad I unsubbed

 

Good riddance

 

How could you have expected changes to DPS of Lightning at all? You clearly understood nothing about what they are doing right now.

 

And no, they will not completely change their schedule just to address Sorc's defenses because of the most vocal part of the forums. In their current class balance cycle they are addressing only DPS. Deal with it or not, your choice. (You made yours)

[Icykill_]

Good riddance

 

How could you have expected changes to DPS of Lightning at all? You clearly understood nothing about what they are doing right now.

 

And no, they will not completely change their schedule just to address Sorc's defenses because of the most vocal part of the forums. In their current class balance cycle they are addressing only DPS. Deal with it or not, your choice. (You made yours)

 

Lovely and pleasant as always. There was no need for that

[frosttj]

And no, they will not completely change their schedule just to address Sorc's defenses because of the most vocal part of the forums. In their current class balance cycle they are addressing only DPS. Deal with it or not, your choice. (You made yours)

 

Thought it was actually rather polite for a forum post, and he's not wrong

 

Sorcs aren't under performing, they're just underwhelming and not exciting. Over tuned classes are the issue, not mediocre performing classes.

[Romeugues]

Once again they've completely ignored Lightning Sorcs in 5.4

 

 

 

Stupid... glad I unsubbed

I'll miss all the topics you make QQing about various things in the game.

Wouldn't it be funny if right after your sub ran out they announced a buff for both DPS specs, like changing the surge bonus on lightning to 20% and fixing the death marks on madness being consumed by other specs and a few more minor buffs to bring it closer to other ranged specs?

[Icykill_]

I'll miss all the topics you make QQing about various things in the game.

Wouldn't it be funny if right after your sub ran out they announced a buff for both DPS specs, like changing the surge bonus on lightning to 20% and fixing the death marks on madness being consumed by other specs and a few more minor buffs to bring it closer to other ranged specs?

 

I would consider subbing if that happened. Just because I unsub doesn't mean I can't play preferred. I just refuse to give them anymore of my money because that's just supporting their bad decisions. I doubt I'll even play preferred because it just won't be fun. It's not like I cant afford the $15 and if I want to play I dont want to be hindered by restrictions.

But Bioware only seem to understand people unsubbing and it's the only way I can protest about what they are doing. My $15 a month doesn't seem like a big protest, but more and more people are voting with their wallets and unsubbing. So add my $15 to all of those people and it is bigger than the sum of itself.

I really hope they fix the game because I've loved the game for 5 years and it's sad to see it dying a cancerous death.

If they were to fix it I would be over the moon and be the first to congratulate them.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Icy just wants everything right now and exactly how he/she says. And if you try to correct him/her or try to explain why this or that is not happening/happening differently/happening later you are called ignorant/impolite/etc. It's like that in every topic.

I had a great post to reply, but you're just not worth it, lol

Edited July 22, 2017 by Icykill_

[Romeugues]

I would consider subbing if that happened. Just because I unsub doesn't mean I can't play preferred. I just refuse to give them anymore of my money because that's just supporting their bad decisions. I doubt I'll even play preferred because it just won't be fun. It's not like I cant afford the $15 and if I want to play I dont want to be hindered by restrictions.

But Bioware only seem to understand people unsubbing and it's the only way I can protest about what they are doing. My $15 a month doesn't seem like a big protest, but more and more people are voting with their wallets and unsubbing. So add my $15 to all of those people and it is bigger than the sum of itself.

I really hope they fix the game because I've loved the game for 5 years and it's sad to see it dying a cancerous death.

If they were to fix it I would be over the moon and be the first to congratulate them.

Gonna play WoW?

[Icykill_]

Gonna play WoW?

 

Tried to go back a few months ago... but the graphics are so child like and needing to use addons just get similar GUI features we take for granted in swtor is a massive turn off.

I might go play some Overwatch for a bit until SW Battlefront 2 is launched and then I'll re-evaluate.

[Ottoattack]

Good riddance

 

How could you have expected changes to DPS of Lightning at all? You clearly understood nothing about what they are doing right now.

 

And no, they will not completely change their schedule just to address Sorc's defenses because of the most vocal part of the forums. In their current class balance cycle they are addressing only DPS. Deal with it or not, your choice. (You made yours)

 

Oh we understand what the are doing. Its called no monitoring and doing class balance the laziest way possible, since it is the only way an incompetent dev with little info can; "target dps on a dummy."

 

As for "schedule," there is such a thing Dude, we went 8 month with zero class balance changes and so far BW only addressed 8 specs and only for dps output on dummies. If this does not indicate incompetence and tardiness I dunno what does.

[Romeugues]

Tried to go back a few months ago... but the graphics are so child like and needing to use addons just get similar GUI features we take for granted in swtor is a massive turn off.

I might go play some Overwatch for a bit until SW Battlefront 2 is launched and then I'll re-evaluate.

I don't mind the graphics but when I tried it last year I couldn't really get into the PVP, I found their BGs less fun than WZs, somehow.

[Icykill_]

I don't mind the graphics but when I tried it last year I couldn't really get into the PVP, I found their BGs less fun than WZs, somehow.

 

My only criticism of the actual battlegrounds is the use of mounts in the smaller ones. I understand they are needed in the larger maps, but there are many they don't need to have mounts.