Request for some defensive buffs for Vanguards/PTs in Warzones.

[Ottoattack]

I don't think there is any question of a need for defensive improvement for PTs, I think that's understood, the only question is in the manner of that defensive improvement.

 

For the Tanks, they can have Merc DCDs, they are not as inappropriate for a tank as they are for DPS. But for the DPS specs, they should have DCDs in line with other melee DPS specs, which is why I suggested something along the lines of Saberward in it's effects.

 

The merc DCDs are inappropriate for any DPS spec of any class in my opinion.

 

TBH for merc if they just remove Trauma regulators (heal on shield) merc will be fairly balanced in terms of suvivability. The KO is about right. It is a 180 CD it should be fairly strong. The reflect rewards idiocy as it heals you if people continue to mindlessly attack. In higher level of game play it gives merc 6 secs of focus fire relive, which is much needed for a cast based class.

 

As for PT, I think just adding reflect should be more than enough for AP and tank. For pyro just 25% reduced damage on taunt on top of reflect. I would really like to get rid of the leap and return back the 30 meter options and lower CD HO. As it currently stands, PT dps has no way to compete with other top melee dps in neither damage or surivability in any shape or form. As a main PT, I have been maining mara since 5.0. The current difference in effectiveness between PT and mara is like comparing a high school football quarterback with an NFL quarterback.

[Bonzenaattori]

What I think is needed:

 

1 new ability to make up for the loss of Full Auto, Explosive Round & Sticky grenade.

Sry but Flak Shell (one ability) doesn't make up for losing three

Not to mention commando gained 1 new ability, which puts us further behind

 

2 New DCD for vanguard or stronger ones,

I would like Adrenaline Rush to be buffed, preferably so its more like a Second Wind Mechanic

 

Either restore Riot Gas pre-nerf or make it so that it is a two pronged function

Buff allies, nerf enemies, for the same efficient amount

 

What I would like personally (little spoilt though) XD:

 

Flak Shell getting a non damage related buff.

Either like a huge Sunder bomb or something unique tied to Vanguard that seperates them from others, probably something aoe friendly. Maybe even overwhelm but i doubt it

 

Hinder mechanics so we're on par with commando

Electro net is a broken ability imo. But they swiped our Hold the line, which makes me kinda butthurt.

Somebody mentioned the ability the place landmines (sorry for lack of reference)

it was an awesome idea, if it leads to like, a hinder if somebody steps on one... could have huge swing potential

 

Remove Transpose from shield spec or buff it by adding shield spec related talents

I dont personally feel this is a tank specific ability and I also feel dps spec vanguard could benefit from the use of this skill more than a tank would!

 

Remove the selfless mentality from tank/utilities

One is enough, that being; Sonic Rebounder.

But Strategic Supremacy leaves lots of room for potential, especially considering what they did to Guardian's Freezing force (mainly that it no longer effects everyone EXCEPT the user)

Edited July 28, 2017 by Bonzenaattori

[JHeezey]

I don't think there is any question of a need for defensive improvement for PTs, I think that's understood, the only question is in the manner of that defensive improvement.

 

For the Tanks, they can have Merc DCDs, they are not as inappropriate for a tank as they are for DPS. But for the DPS specs, they should have DCDs in line with other melee DPS specs, which is why I suggested something along the lines of Saberward in it's effects.

 

The merc DCDs are inappropriate for any DPS spec of any class in my opinion.

 

Alright, my apologies - obviously this an emotional topic for us PT/VG mains getting stomped right now. As long as we get something to help us with the whole "the enemy team has decided to delete you, enjoy the respawn area" issue I'm fine with whatever form that takes.

[Kuvox]

This is a non-argument. I've got seven (don't play sorc) of the AC's that I've played since 5.0 dropped. PT has far and away the lowest survivability besides possibly Sorc DPS. I will run circles around the best Powertech in a 1v1 with my sniper, merc(lol), jug, or mara. Op and Sin are similar, though require a higher degree of finesse.

 

I have all 8 ACs, and play all but two of them regularly. I decided to play my DPS PT again this week after not having played him since leveling him to 70 (and not having PVPd on him in a very long time). All I can say is: DPS spec'd PTs are, without a doubt, the squishiest class in the game, and by a significant margin. I main a Sorc and Sage and have been a relentless champion for that class but came to admit this week that they're far more robust and resilient than DPS PTs, especially in PVP. I kept reading through my PT abilities and utilities thinking I was doing something wrong, only to finally realize that this is currently how it's intended to be. The difference between this class and snipers and mercs is almost mind-blowing. As others have said in this thread, this class needs more defensives to make it competitive. It doesn't need merc-or sniper-level defensives, because we can put out significant damage when not targeted, but enough to bring this class back to life.

[PrometheanDeath]

Probably the easiest way to justify a PT defensive buff/utility buff. Think we should notice that every single class has a defensive buff in legendary except PTs.

-Juggernauts add an extra 2 seconds of duration (Making it 5 seconds duration) to saber reflect which absorbs all direct single target damage which is no problem to negate most damage dealt to them in that time.

- Marauders have ruthless aggressor resisting most if not all tech attacks (75% chance) for 6 seconds on obfuscate which has a min CD, or 45 seconds with another utility. And while not used often heal 3% max health while being attacked while saber ward is up called blood ward.

-Sorcs have healing due to their god bubble, static barrier, and added shield after god bubble. And a damage reduction/CD reduction on their self heal (making it 25 second CD and 25% dmg reduction for 6 seconds).

-Sins have force speed absorbing 60% all damage taken for the natural 2 second duration, and increasing the duration of shroud and force speed (by 2 seconds and .5 seconds respectively).

-Mercs have trauma regulators which is an all around agreed, OP utility defensive.

-Snipers make their ballistic shield grant not only damage reduction to themselves with enemies being under the shield upon activation, but also rapid healing, which is more than kolto overload while under their shield. And lets not forget a passive 5% dmg reduction by staying in cover and decreasing ballistic shield CD by 30 seconds, and if chosen 10% max health heal after every roll and adding another 2 seconds to their evasion.

-And Operatives have revitalizers which increases dmg reduction by 20% and healing them 5% max health every 3 seconds both lasting 15 seconds (Which also means it triggers more than a tank or Pyro's shoulder cannon heal). And having Augmented shields increasing shield probes damage it can absorb by 30%.

-Pts on the other hand lack something that contributes as much as every utility as all these other classes have. 3% max health per shoulder cannon isn't a good enough heal to even take, as that is only about 4K heal (assuming 130K health) and tanks normally use shoulder cannon as a threat builder. And only to Dps specs 5% damage reduction for 15 seconds after activating explosive fuel, is such a laughable utility, because to make it even worse, increases your dmg by 5% if you are a tank instead.

~ And this isn't even considering defensive utilities in heroic or lower, because marauders and mercs would just prove this even more, and it would be too long of a list.

 

Now to move onto tank comparison. assuming set bonuses

Juggernauts are known for being the CD tank, and thus have really strong CDs.

Saber reflect which was covered above text with a min CD.

Enraged defense which heals roughly 3-4K per charge consumed with 12 charges, pretty strong for rapid hits, and is almost guaranteed effective healing min 30 sec CD on top of that.

Saber ward having the 3min CD, protects against all damage types for 12 seconds, 50% ranged and melee defense (100% for 5 seconds due to tank set bonus boost blade turning, 2 seconds for Dps specs) and absorbing all force/tech damage by 25%.

Invincible 40% dmg reduction for 12 seconds (15 with set bonus) 2min 30 CD, which is basically a stronger Energy shield taking 15% extra dmg reduction for only an added 30 second CD.

Endure Pain a 30% fake health bar for 20 seconds (10 seconds for Dps classes) 1min CD.

And a not widely known one, Intimidating roar decreases melee/range dmg by 15% for 8 seconds on all targets 1min CD.

 

PT tanks: Energy shield increases dmg reduction by 25% for 19 seconds 2min CD. Basically the strongest CD a PT tank has already outclassed by the iconic invincible CD juggs have, and other CDs mentioned about sin in a bit.

Oil slick reduces melee/ranged accuracy of all targets by 15% for 13 seconds, which is an rng defensive that isn't guaranteed, and doesn't help against force/tech, luckily only having a 1min CD.

Explosive fuel increase defense change by 35% for 15 seconds, which like oil slick, defense chance only works against melee/ranged and not force/tech dmg and is an rng defensive, has twice the CD of oil slick at 2min.

Last CD owned by PTs is Kolto overload, which lasts 8 seconds, triggers at 35% or lower, and brings them back up to 35%, tanks heal 2% max health every second while above 35%, which assuming a tank average of 120K health is 2500, a pretty terrible heal which a boss can easily knock away.

~ Hydraulics wasn't included as it is just a knockback prevent skill, no dmg is mitigated when it's used.

 

And now for the rated best tank, sin tank. Force speed covered in the above text, which only has a 15 second CD.

Dark ward, the iconic sin defensive, increases shield rating by 15% as long as it's up, and has a passive that increases absorb rating by up to 10%, CD 10 seconds last 20 seonds (15 charges, and even including chances to not remove charges) and is always up.

Deflection, lasting 15 seconds and a min 50 CD, has half of saber ward's effect, increasing ranged and melee defense chance by 50% for a lower CD.

Recklessness increasing absorb rating by 30% for 20 seconds min 30 CD, seems rather similar to PT's explosive fuel, except instead of defense is absorb, and loses 5% for 30 seconds lower on CD.

The most OP defense at a sins disposal, force shroud, negating all force and tech damage for 5 seconds with utility, 1min CD, and even less due to sin tanks parrying, shielding, etc.

And overcharge saber granting 25% damage reduction for 15 seconds, and healing the player for 15% max health, and heals the tank roughly 2300 max health every time dark charge is triggered 2min CD. Now wait, Overcharge saber looks kinda familiar? a 25% dmg reduction for 15 seconds, that's odd, energy shield does the same but for 4 seconds longer. Oh look there's also 2 healing effects on overcharge saber, that's convenient. And what's also interesting? it has the same CD as energy shield and not even considered their strongest CD unlike PTs, very interesting.

 

Now lets compare tank offensive abilities that add buffs.

Juggs: Aegis Assault increases Damage reduction and Shield Absorb by 3%, 20 second duration, 12 second CD (So it's always up).

Crushing Blow gives 2% damage reduction for 4 seconds, 12 sec CD.

Retaliation increases Melee/Range defense by 3%, and defense chance by 5% with no GCD.

Ravage boosting defense chance by 6%, 6 second duration, 18 second CD.

Force scream applying a moderate damage shield.

Seems like a nice amount of abilities and buffs to have.

 

PT tanks: Heat blast, increasing absorb rating by 30% for 6 seconds and 2% dmg reduction for 5 seconds.

Rocket Punch and Rail Shot add a stack of shield enhancers increasing shield chance by 1% per stack, 3 stacks at most. And that's the end of PT abilities.

 

Assassin tanks: Depredating volts and exiting stealth grant 4% dmg reduction for 12 seconds, which is usually always up unless down time prevents the use of depredating volts. Wither grants 2% dmg reduction for 3 seconds, 10 sec CD. While assassins have only 2 buffs granted by offensive abilities, they have many CDs to compensate.

 

In short in case you skipped to this bottom section due to a lot of words. PTs having little offensive attacks that add buffs like juggs, and the lowest amount CDs that are outclassed, by similar CDs that are owned by juggs and sins alike. PTs just don't have the defense capability to compete. They might have passives on their side, but so do the other tanks, and passives alone just can't compete in any scenario of damage, PvP or Pve.

Edited September 11, 2017 by PrometheanDeath

[Hoppinswtor]

AP is not midrange anymore

[KendraP]

Probably the easiest way to justify a PT defensive buff/utility buff. Think we should notice that every single class has a defensive buff in legendary except PTs.

Juggernauts add an extra 2 seconds of duration (Making it 5 seconds duration) to saber reflect which absorbs all direct single target damage which is no problem to negate most damage dealt to them in that time.

 

As someone who has played guardian dps, reflect works on force, ranged, and tech attacks. It is hardly the op ability everyone thsee days is trying to make it out to be.

 

Next to VG and possibly sage guardians are the squishiest.

 

I do agree that VGs need much love in the DCD department.

[AdjeYo]

...

Now to move onto tank comparison. assuming set bonuses

Juggernauts are known for being the CD tank, and thus have really strong CDs.

Saber reflect which was covered above text with a min CD.

Enraged defense which heals roughly 3-4K per charge consumed with 12 charges, pretty strong for rapid hits, and is almost guaranteed effective healing min 30 sec CD on top of that.

Saber ward having the 3min CD, protects against all damage types for 12 seconds, 50% ranged and melee defense (100% for 5 seconds due to tank set bonus boost blade turning, 2 seconds for Dps specs) and absorbing all force/tech damage by 25%.

Invincible 40% dmg reduction for 12 seconds (15 with set bonus) 2min 30 CD, which is basically a stronger Energy shield taking 15% extra dmg reduction for only an added 30 second CD.

Endure Pain a 30% fake health bar for 20 seconds (10 seconds for Dps classes) 1min CD.

And a not widely known one, Intimidating roar decreases melee/range dmg by 15% for 8 seconds on all targets 1min CD.

Saber Ward is very powerful, but against anything but melee/ranged damage it is worse than Energy Shield, because Energy Shield adds to your existing damage reduction rather than providing another reduction layer.

Similarly Invincible is only better than Energy Shield against internal/elemental damage and loses quite badly to Energy Shield when considering Kinetic/Energy damage.

 

PT tanks: Energy shield increases dmg reduction by 25% for 19 seconds 2min CD. Basically the strongest CD a PT tank has already outclassed by the iconic invincible CD juggs have, and other CDs mentioned about sin in a bit.

Oil slick reduces melee/ranged accuracy of all targets by 15% for 13 seconds, which is an rng defensive that isn't guaranteed, and doesn't help against force/tech, luckily only having a 1min CD.

Explosive fuel increase defense change by 35% for 15 seconds, which like oil slick, defense chance only works against melee/ranged and not force/tech dmg and is an rng defensive, has twice the CD of oil slick at 2min.

Last CD owned by PTs is Kolto overload, which lasts 8 seconds, triggers at 35% or lower, and brings them back up to 35%, tanks heal 2% max health every second while above 35%, which assuming a tank average of 120K health is 2500, a pretty terrible heal which a boss can easily knock away.

~ Hydraulics wasn't included as it is just a knockback prevent skill, no dmg is mitigated when it's used.

As pointed out above, Energy Shield is in certain scenario's more powerful than Saber Ward and is often better than Invincible. It's quite a versatile cooldown that shouldn't be underestimated.

The defense chance from Explosive Fuel DOES work against Force/Tech damage, just hover over defense chance when it's active, you'll see it adds Force/Tech resist too. It is RNG, but it can be quite good.

 

And now for the rated best tank, sin tank. Force speed covered in the above text, which only has a 15 second CD.

Dark ward, the iconic sin defensive, increases shield rating by 15% as long as it's up, and has a passive that increases absorb rating by up to 10%, CD 10 seconds last 20 seonds (15 charges, and even including chances to not remove charges) and is always up.

Deflection, lasting 15 seconds and a min 50 CD, has half of saber ward's effect, increasing ranged and melee defense chance by 50% for a lower CD.

Recklessness increasing absorb rating by 30% for 20 seconds min 30 CD, seems rather similar to PT's explosive fuel, except instead of defense is absorb, and loses 5% for 30 seconds lower on CD.

The most OP defense at a sins disposal, force shroud, negating all force and tech damage for 5 seconds with utility, 1min CD, and even less due to sin tanks parrying, shielding, etc.

And overcharge saber granting 25% damage reduction for 15 seconds, and healing the player for 15% max health, and heals the tank roughly 2300 max health every time dark charge is triggered 2min CD. Now wait, Overcharge saber looks kinda familiar? a 25% dmg reduction for 15 seconds, that's odd, energy shield does the same but for 4 seconds longer. Oh look there's also 2 healing effects on overcharge saber, that's convenient. And what's also interesting? it has the same CD as energy shield and not even considered their strongest CD unlike PTs, very interesting.

You can't just throw Dark Ward in here, it's part of a Sin's active mitigation and Sins need it to as well as Depredating Volts' buff to make up for its significantly lower DR.

Deflection is pretty strong, but quite limited as it does nothing against Force/Tech damage.

Overcharge Saber is a pretty strong defensive, but 4 seconds duration on a 2 minute cooldown ability is quite a significant difference. As well as the fact that the more DR you have (and Pt's have a lot more of it than Sins)

the more powerful additional DR becomes. It's initial healing effect is pretty useful, but the further healing provided is beaten by even the mediocre Kolto Overload Pt's have.

Force Speed is pretty ridiculous though, but using it a defensive does limit mobility.

 

Now lets compare tank offensive abilities that add buffs.

Juggs: Aegis Assault increases Damage reduction and Shield Absorb by 3%, 20 second duration, 12 second CD (So it's always up). And with it, Juggs still have less DR than Pt's

Crushing Blow gives 2% damage reduction for 4 seconds, 12 sec CD.

Retaliation increases Melee/Range defense by 3%, and defense chance by 5% with no GCD. ?? It's just the 5% buff, the 3% buff has nothing to do with Retaliation

Ravage boosting defense chance by 6%, 6 second duration, 18 second CD.

Force scream applying a moderate damage shield.

Seems like a nice amount of abilities and buffs to have.

 

 

PT tanks: Heat blast, increasing absorb rating by 30% for 6 seconds and 2% dmg reduction for 5 seconds.

Rocket Punch and Rail Shot add a stack of shield enhancers increasing shield chance by 1% per stack, 3 stacks at most. And that's the end of PT abilities.

 

Assassin tanks: Depredating volts and exiting stealth grant 4% dmg reduction for 12 seconds, which is usually always up unless down time prevents the use of depredating volts. Wither grants 2% dmg reduction for 3 seconds, 10 sec CD. While assassins have only 2 buffs granted by offensive abilities, they have many CDs to compensate.

Again, Depredating Volts' buff is there to compensate for the lower DR sins have.

 

In short in case you skipped to this bottom section due to a lot of words. PTs having little offensive attacks that add buffs like juggs, and the lowest amount CDs that are outclassed, by similar CDs that are owned by juggs and sins alike. PTs just don't have the defense capability to compete. They might have passives on their side, but so do the other tanks, and passives alone just can't compete in any scenario of damage, PvP or Pve.

Overall I don't entirely disagree with you. Pt's need some loving. Looking at the tank spec what it really needs imo, is some sort of damage immunity/resist effect to cheese mechanics similar to Sins with Shroud and Juggs with Mad Dash/Saber Reflect. It could also use some buffs to passive mitigation as well as a buff to Kolto Overload, which is pretty bad atm. I disagree with your assessment of Energy Shield though, it's quite powerful and very versatile cooldown.

Edited August 6, 2017 by AdjeYo

[PrometheanDeath]

No disagreement there, Energy shield is a powerful CD, the best one a PT has. Main point I was more or less getting to is that Pts don't have many CDs to fall back on compared to the other tanks, and passives aren't what's going to save you from spike damage. Everything helps sure, but without much to fall back on, most people tend to either try to avoid using something so "precious", or end up using it too early and don't have anything to help when a mistake is made later. And I think we all have seen at one point some player pop every DCD in their arsenal all at once because they got nuked, and a PT for instance in pvp, can still die even after activating them all. Sin having shroud as an immunity to force/tech damage, and juggs having blade turning making melee/range damage negated for the first 5 seconds, Pts don't have a guaranteed damage mitigation, which is what they need. People saying "Give PTs the merc reflect" is understandable, finally all tanks have access to a reflect, and PTs get a needed damage absorb defensive. The main problem with this is that they should just give PTs something new, or else they will just keep stealing abilities that already exist in the name of balancing. If that's how it's going to be pretty soon, Saber reflect will be copied by blaster wielders and evasion will be given to force wielders and then everything will be "balanced" by the Dev's eyes. XD Edited August 6, 2017 by PrometheanDeath

[DDaMAGEr]

Yah, as of right now Vanguard Tank state is

. Same mitigation as Guardians, but those have way better DCD. And comparing to Shadow it might come to +30% of average DTPS vs -20% DTPS, which stands Shadow tanks by 50% better, and it's outrageous. In DPS role they got 2 Defensive Cooldowns, while other classes have 3-4, + also heals, which healers classes have. Thus VG is squishiest class in PvP, and that's outrageous too. They don't have overpowered musthave perks, like Shadow and Guradians've (extend saber reflect to 5s, 60% absorption with Force Speed). Hold the Line doesn't provide defense unlike Force Speed or Blade Blitz.

 

Thus they need some Buff to defenses for both DPS and Tank role. One DCD like Echoing Deterrence/Responsive Safeguards wouldn't be excessive, especially as it's Reflect. Also l think getting rid of Transpose or make it avaliable for all VG disciplines. l also thought about a power with 3s duration and 30s cooldown, called, say Shield Overcharge/Shield Overload that would expel negative removable effects and increase Shield Chance by +50% (additive) for 3 seconds, which might be that kind of "block" power, what VG lacks. Like for EV ball lightnings, or Titan bombs it'd make sure hit from that is shielded guaranteed. But that might be added as replacement for totally useless Transpose, as Shield Chance makes sense only for Tanks.

 

Also Vanguards (not the Powertech) Riot Gas still invokes old accuracy reduction value (-30%) - bug, but l wouldn't fix it until their whole defenses are reworked.

[BillyHunter]

I might have a few suggestions.

 

1.) Turn Hydrolic override/Hold the line into a dcd. Hear me out. Almost every PT/VG uses that ability, including all the specs. I suggest adding a 30%-50% resistance (or whatever is considered balanced) to damage during the use of it. This would be a base PT/VG ability, so that the tank and dps spec can use it.

 

2.) Remove Translocate/Transpose and add a DCD for tank spec only. How often is this ability executed? Ever so rarely do I use it or others use it. Another DCD for the tank spec would be handy, especially since oil slick and explosive fuel are mostly rngesus based. An idea I had was for the PT/VG to have an ability where you have a 100% absorb for 6 seconds, but during the time you take damage, you gain X amount of stacks, then after the 6 seconds, those stacks turn into something that give X resistance for X seconds. Not a reflect, but something to keep the class tanky.

 

3.) Either improve Kolto, shoulder cannon or at least give PT/VG trauma regulators. Everyone has said it before, the healing sucks, especially for a tank/dps class, it could be improved.

 

4.) Maybe reduce overheating for DPS a little. Not by much, I've seen people talk about it, and I know pyro can build up heat a lot. A small reduction to heat consumption would be nice.

 

Just some thoughts and suggestions. What's your opinion?

[Zunayson]

We need to take the energy shield heal talent that mercs have, and GIVE IT to the PTs!

 

patrick star.jpg

 

For real though, that's probably all is needed. It'll fix merc's ridiculous survivability and pt's laughable one

[PrometheanDeath]

Thus they need some Buff to defenses for both DPS and Tank role. One DCD like Echoing Deterrence/Responsive Safeguards wouldn't be excessive, especially as it's Reflect. Also l think getting rid of Transpose or make it avaliable for all VG disciplines. l also thought about a power with 3s duration and 30s cooldown, called, say Shield Overcharge/Shield Overload that would expel negative removable effects and increase Shield Chance by +50% (additive) for 3 seconds, which might be that kind of "block" power, what VG lacks. Like for EV ball lightnings, or Titan bombs it'd make sure hit from that is shielded guaranteed. But that might be added as replacement for totally useless Transpose, as Shield Chance makes sense only for Tanks.

 

Your tank idea actually gave me an idea. Pts are more of a "support others" type of class so that must be their reason for including translocate in their arsenal. I think it's clear to say though that translocate for PT tanks is basically useless, while I get that Bioware wants PTs to support other players with sonic rebounder, or even adaptable assailant, maybe they can change the ability to benefit team mates rather than troll teammates to fall of the void star Bridge or stand in fire (lol). With your idea that cleanses and increases shield chance for 3 seconds, it honestly is a good one, definitely something they need, but lets see if we can spin that to keep Bioware's intention on translocate. "Shield Overload" Overcharge your shield to protect an ally, absorbing damage taken done to you and your targeted by 60% for 5 seconds, cleansing both of you at the end of the shield, (60 or 90 second CD). It gives PTs a well deserved DCD, helps an ally like the intention of translocate, and makes them less squishy than sorcs in the process.

[LeglessChair]

Any of the important merc utilities, as a passive, would do.

[PrometheanDeath]

I would disagree, because you would lose the difference between PT and Merc. If they give the same broken CDs from merc to PT, then what's the point, PT would just be a melee merc, or a merc a ranged PT. There are different classes for a reason, so I hope Bioware learns that each class should be unique instead of melding them into almost the same thing.

[PrometheanDeath]

(End of page 4 is the reason for posting this list)

Lets compare class differences and how their physical defenses actually show how unique their class is. (Yes this is only including non utility created defenses)

Warriors, Marauder and Juggernaut:

Juggernaut having:

Saber Ward *

Saber Reflect

Endure Pain

Enraged Defense

 

Marauders having:

Saber Ward *

Undying Rage

Cloak of Pain

Obfuscate

Predation

 

Warriors are a perfect example, they share an iconic CD that works against all damage types (Saber Ward) then they each have CDs that is unique to their class. juggernauts having a reflect against all damage except melee damage, the normal increase max health for a short duration most MMOs give the warrior class, and enraged defense which helps mainly against dot or rapid small hits. Marauder aside from the shared saber ward:Undying rage, the immunity for a short duration, cloak of pain mitigation with small damage back at the attacker, Obfuscate which is their accuracy reducing ability against other classes, and predation increases movement and ranged/melee defense that helps others and self. They basically got the warrior's unique play style in defenses perfectly imo.

 

Inquisitors: Sorcerer and Assassin

Sorcerer having:

Force Barrier

Static Barrier

Self healing

 

Assassins having:

Force Shroud

Deflection

Overcharge Saber

Stealth

 

Inquisitors have the biggest difference, and makes the class you choose unique. The iconic sorcerer 8 second god bubble, static barrier to absorb some damage here and there, and access to self healing as well, being the "mage class." Assassins with their iconic Force shroud which mitigates all force/tech damage (and most mechanics), deflection against melee/ranged damage, their 1 self heal which has an offense charge boost, and their escape with stealth. Two unique force using classes.

 

Agents: Sniper and Operative

Snipers having:

Entrench

Covered Escape

Diversion

Shield Probe *

Evasion *

Ballistic Shield

Imperial Preparation

 

Operatives having:

Exfiltratex2

Shield Probe *

Evasion *

Off heals

Stealth

 

The agents are quite unique in their arsenal of defenses too. While they do share both Shield probe which absorbs some damage taken and Evasion evading melee/ranged attacks (Snipers also mitigates force/tech damage), their other defenses are made to combat different scenarios. Sniper being the "Every possible contingency" class has a button to use for any situation. Entrench to combat any knockback or stun, Covered escape to escape melee enemies or mitigate a giant hit with 100% defense chance, Diversion being their accuracy reducing ability, ballistic shield giving all allies and self damage reduction, and Imperial Preparation, to bring everything off CD yet again for round 2. Operatives being the spy class have to play strategically, having access to fewer CDs than their co advanced class. Having shield probe and evasion just like Snipers, are pretty flexible CDs that can be used in most situations. Operatives having self heals is a big thing, especially since they are heal over time effects so they just apply and move on, Exfiltrate does grant passive defense chance while rolling, but concealment dodges all attacks during their roll, and lethality get access to their off heal Kolto infusion being instant cast and not costing a Tactical Advantage. And just like assassins, they have their escape option by stealth. Both classes have different play styles and the way their CDs have been changed by advanced class does show.

 

While it did take awhile, the main point...

Bounty Hunters: Mercenary and Powertech

Mercenary having:

Energy Shield *

Kolto Overload *

Responsive Safeguards

Hydraulic Overrides *

Off healing

 

Powertechs having:

Energy Shield *

Kolto Overload *

Hydraulic Overrides *

 

That's odd Powertech have nothing unique about their class, but oh well, let the comparison continue.

Mercenary energy shield adds 25% Dmg reduction for the duration, Kolto overload rapidly heals themselves to 35% only triggering if 35% or less, hydraulic overrides which prevents physical knock backs roots etc. with a minor speed boost, Responsive safeguards absorbing all damage taken, reflecting 50% back to attacker, and 5% max health heal per attack absorbed, and having access to self heals. PTs now have energy shield adds 25% Dmg reduction for the duration, Kolto overload rapidly heals themselves to 35% only triggering if 35% or less, hydraulic overrides which prevents physical knock backs roots etc. with a minor speed boost (Yes this was literally copied and pasted). Honestly nothing unique about PTs compared to mercs except that mercs have access to more. It all comes back to my post above, a PT even with the differences in specs and utilities, is a just defensive wise, a melee before 5.0 merc.

And a spec specific one I forgot was AP's sonic missile granting them defense chance (30% for 6 seconds) still

is shared to the IO merc.

 

(Just to take into account utilities to summarize, if PTs had a utility that boosts something other than Hydraulics which doesn't help against physical damage, I'd include utilities, But you know...just another perk of being the forgotten class of Swtor.)

Edited September 8, 2017 by PrometheanDeath

[KevinQCowart]

Hydraulic Overrides has lost is effectiveness as a kiting tool, its still a gap-closer, but against good players you really can't avoid much damage. Just look at a Deception Assassin for example, they have force speed on a 15 second cooldown and always talent for a root break, plus phantom stride, low slash, and they usually take insta-whirlwind, they even have force slow, as well as optional utilities for a speed boost on discharge and a slow on voltaic slash. Simply put, you can not kite an even half-decent deception assassin and the same mostly applies to the other melee classes. You have to be aggressive and fight it out which leads to the other two PT defensive cooldowns...

 

Energy Shield has no deterrent factor at all, even with Pyro Shield. Players tunnel right through Energy Shield and lululululz. What I think Energy Shield should become is like the Monks Cocoon in Warcraft which is basically like a very very large Static Barrier. It can be damaged down to 0 but is an poor use of damage output for the enemy, so the PT will either deter their attacker or RELIABLY mitigate incoming damage.

 

Kolto Overload needs to tick twice as hard baseline for all Bounty Hunters -- end of story. This baseline ability is nearly worthless, I only find it saving my life with Pyrotech, or using in conjunction with Energy Shield or warzone adrenal, and then poof after that your naked.

 

Shield Cannon: This 3% heal is laughable, it is so horrible that you it could even be doubled and wouldn't be a game changer. Either way I don't like having my defenses tied to my burst phase and the same goes for...

 

Fuel Additives, again 5% damage reduction is palpably absurd, seriously BIoware do you even play Powertech. How is this garbage a legendary utility. Even if this utility were doubled to 10% it would still be lackluster and would still be tied to my burst phase which is bad design.

 

Energy Rebounders, Stabilized Armor and Automated Defenses should be pulled out of the skill tress and made legendary utilities replacing the garbage utilites. This way the PT can pick 2/3 of their defensive buffs and customize for their playstyle. Merge Overdrive into the Heroic Torque Boosters.

Edited September 9, 2017 by KevinQCowart

[PrometheanDeath]

Energy Shield has no deterrent factor at all, even with Pyro Shield. Players tunnel right through Energy Shield and lululululz. What I think Energy Shield should become is like the Monks Cocoon in Warcraft which is basically like a very very large Static Barrier. It can be damaged down to 0 but is an poor use of damage output for the enemy, so the PT will either deter their attacker or RELIABLY mitigate incoming damage.

 

It's the sad truth, PTs are the only class without the deterrent factor in their defenses too. Let's pretend I'm a merc for these scenarios.

-If a marauder were to use undying rage, or obfuscate me, you should kite, CC or heal because you won't be doing any damage to them.

-If a juggernaut uses saber reflect stop attacked and cc them, no use to hit yourself anything.

-Operative at this point if I see evasion it's in my self interest to do a quick heal before I test whether they took the 150% reflect or not, or just stun them like always.

-Sniper evasion is pretty strong and mitigates most damage any class can do to them (dodge melee/range and absorb 75% force and tech), that for me at least deserves a quick target swap or at least heal myself for a couple of seconds.

-If a sorc uses god bubble and is actually channeling the full 8 seconds, there's no reason to hit him he's immune to damage, just target swap.

- At this point if you see a sin use shroud as a merc, unless you are willing to rapid shots or blazing bolts/unload is up when they pop shroud, just rocket out and heal.

-And if a PT were to use any defense, I keep on burning them, they have nothing to mitigate or resist any attacks like every other class.

 

PTs are the only class that doesn't have a thing that prevents me from Nuking them with a perfect opener. It's just the sad truth that PTs are still stuck in 2.0.

Edited September 10, 2017 by PrometheanDeath

[Zeitryn]

I main a AP PT, and it is clear that DCD's are the what's lacking, but i'd like to see some interesting as well as useful additions/changes.

 

something like:

 

a passive 25% damage (35% for tanks) reduction for 6 secs when activating Jet Charge.

 

New ability:

 

Bombing run - Dash forward 20m resisting all damage and effects. Also applies Thermal Detonator to all enemies within 8m of the initial location. 30sec cooldown.

 

This gives PTs a reliable resist something they lack compared to other melee, extra mobility with a way to re-engage charge for additional interrupts on casters & helps improve AoE damage capability.

[PrometheanDeath]

I main a AP PT, and it is clear that DCD's are the what's lacking, but i'd like to see some interesting as well as useful additions/changes.

 

a passive 25% damage (35% for tanks) reduction for 6 secs when activating Jet Charge.

 

Bombing run - Dash forward 20m resisting all damage and effects. Also applies Thermal Detonator to all enemies within 8m of the initial location. 30sec cooldown.

 

This gives PTs a reliable resist something they lack compared to other melee, extra mobility with a way to re-engage charge for additional interrupts on casters & helps improve AoE damage capability.

 

This is interesting, and I thought I could bring it up considering you made a great balance with it. "A passive 25% dmg reduction (35% for tank) for 6 seconds after jet charge." Pvp I can understand that helping, but pve not as much, Unless We make a useless utility great again? Most PTs have at least looked at Battering Ram in legendary and thought "Wow this is useless, 2nd charge has to be within 10m, I might as well just use flame burst again." If we combined your idea of the dmg reduction, and maybe bring back the old annihilation "Force charge has no minimum range" into battering ram utility, I actually see this as a promising defensive.

 

Would be something like this:

Battering Ram: Using Jet Charge grants Battering Ram, resetting the cooldown of Jet Charge and increasing movement speed by 30% and damage reduction by 25% for 6 seconds. In addition Jet charge has no minimum range, and the 2nd jet charge deals 50% increased damage but does not cause an additional interrupt, immobilize, or charge. This effect cannot occur more than once every 15 seconds.

 

While this might be making PTs constantly using their gap closer, it does provide a great amount of mitigation which they are lacking, and especially against many stationary boss fights, this helps quite a bit, and probably something I'd take as a PT tank.

Edited September 13, 2017 by PrometheanDeath

[DDaMAGEr]

<snip>

If Hydraulic Overrides taken into account as DCD, then Phase Walk (Sorcerer) should be taken into account as well. As well as Rocket Out/Propulsion Round, which may help escape from melee range. And this way Mercenaries/Commandos get +2 additional DCD + also off heals, +bunch of defense boosting utilities.

 

l think Echoing Deterrence/Responsive Safeguards are really WAY better suited for VG/PT, because two other TANK classes have Reflect (Jugg/Guardian has always, and Shadow has optionally). Amongst troopers - give it commandos, not Vanguards, l really think it looks like kinda misclick. Devs, transfer plz, don't mind if it gets somewhat nerfed during transfer.

 

Also Vanguards supposed to heal from AoE damage, but for some reason NOT ALL actual AoE damage is tagged this way. Today l reflected AoE with mah Commando at Toborro Courtyard. This also reason using Saber Reflect with DPS Guardian/Juggernauts.

 

The only thing for Vanguards is really BROKEN - is the fact that Vanguard Riot Gas invokes OLD (-30%) Accuracy Reduction, while Powertech's Oil Slick (-15%) Accuracy Reduction.

 

https://swtor.jedipedia.net/en/abl/riot-gas

Modify stat Melee Accuracy, increase by -0.3

Modify stat Ranged Accuracy, increase by -0.3

https://swtor.jedipedia.net/en/abl/oil-slick-3

Modify stat Melee Accuracy, increase by -0.15

Modify stat Ranged Accuracy, increase by -0.15

Edited September 14, 2017 by DDaMAGEr

[Zeitryn]

This is interesting, and I thought I could bring it up considering you made a great balance with it. "A passive 25% dmg reduction (35% for tank) for 6 seconds after jet charge." Pvp I can understand that helping, but pve not as much, Unless We make a useless utility great again? Most PTs have at least looked at Battering Ram in legendary and thought "Wow this is useless, 2nd charge has to be within 10m, I might as well just use flame burst again." If we combined your idea of the dmg reduction, and maybe bring back the old annihilation "Force charge has no minimum range" into battering ram utility, I actually see this as a promising defensive.

 

Would be something like this:

Battering Ram: Using Jet Charge grants Battering Ram, resetting the cooldown of Jet Charge and increasing movement speed by 30% and damage reduction by 25% for 6 seconds. In addition Jet charge has no minimum range, and the 2nd jet charge deals 50% increased damage but does not cause an additional interrupt, immobilize, or charge. This effect cannot occur more than once every 15 seconds.

 

While this might be making PTs constantly using their gap closer, it does provide a great amount of mitigation which they are lacking, and especially against many stationary boss fights, this helps quite a bit, and probably something I'd take as a PT tank.

 

Sorry, I should of clarified;

 

When i said passive, i didn't mean as a talent choice but as an actual granted passive. If it had to go into talents i'd say under Masterful as a replacement for Pneumatic Boots.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Zeitryn

[PrometheanDeath]

If Hydraulic Overrides taken into account as DCD, then Phase Walk (Sorcerer) should be taken into account as well. As well as Rocket Out/Propulsion Round, which may help escape from melee range. And this way Mercenaries/Commandos get +2 additional DCD + also off heals, +bunch of defense boosting utilities.[/i]

Hydraulics was only mentioned in my comparison to prove that both merc and PT are less unique of a class compared to the other classes. even if I were to include phase walk or rocket out, it just proves my point more. Phase walk makes sorcs and sins more unique by having different abilities, and rocket out to mercs is just another tool that PTs don't have all the while merc still owns everything a PT has but better.

 

l think Echoing Deterrence/Responsive Safeguards are really WAY better suited for VG/PT, because two other TANK classes have Reflect (Jugg/Guardian has always, and Shadow has optionally). Amongst troopers - give it commandos, not Vanguards, l really think it looks like kinda misclick. Devs, transfer plz, don't mind if it gets somewhat nerfed during transfer.[/i]

I have mentioned that already, but swapping/giving defensives inevitably doesn't do any class good, for it would cause 2 things. 1 the original class would lose their defensive and inevitably complain on the forums that it was "necessary to survival of my class." 2 the new class would get a new CD, but in the case the defensive was not deleted from the original class, then it's a copy, and it will result in again having no unique aspect to their class except that both classes are the same, which goes against the meaning of separate classes.

 

Also Vanguards supposed to heal from AoE damage, but for some reason NOT ALL actual AoE damage is tagged this way. Today l reflected AoE with mah Commando at Toborro Courtyard. This also reason using Saber Reflect with DPS Guardian/Juggernauts.[/i]

If you would like to check the physical ability of close and personal, it can only activate once every 3 seconds, meaning you only heal if you get hit by AoE damage once every 3 seconds, so if you were to say get hit by 3 sorcs all spamming force storm, you will only heal 2 ticks, 1 for the initial hit from the channel, and the ending hit at 3 seconds, and the other 2 force storms won't apply because close and personal is on CD. The heal is also minuscule, and it's almost impossible to heal more than the damage you took, so it would seem like you didn't get healed at all. I recently fought Raptus a couple days ago on my vanguard, and his AoEs triggered my close and personal, so it seems to work just fine.

 

The only thing for Vanguards is really BROKEN - is the fact that Vanguard Riot Gas invokes OLD (-30%) Accuracy Reduction, while Powertech's Oil Slick (-15%) Accuracy Reduction.[/i]

I do agree that this is an annoying bug that can be fixed in 2 different ways. Either A bring the PT version back to 30 so devs don't need to mess with a bug, or B fix the bug.

[PrometheanDeath]

Sorry, I should of clarified;

 

When i said passive, i didn't mean as a talent choice but as an actual granted passive. If it had to go into talents i'd say under Masterful as a replacement for Pneumatic Boots.

 

That's fine, it was just my 2 cents on what I think I would do if I saw that as an idea. Keep in mind that 25% dmg reduction on an ability with a relatively short CD is pretty good, especially since a PT tank already has over 50% dmg reduction. If my idea was placed in legendary, also taking the changes I mentioned to battering ram, it would finally give a reason for PTs to pick a 2nd legendary utility, considering the only useful one is Pressure overrides (boost to hydraulic speed).

Edited September 14, 2017 by PrometheanDeath

[Exocor]

By all thoughts for VG/PT DCD's: Consider, that it has also to be balanced for PvE. Something like "makes me immortal for x seconds" or "using something, that is not used in pve grants x% DR" isn't balanced for PvE. I more thought of simply adding some % DR to Hydraulics, because of many mobility-abilites have a DR/Resist (Force Speed, Mad Dash...).