Class Changes: Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage

[Thaladan]

Note: All changes below are currently in development and are subject to change before being released.

 

this please BW !

 

we are all really disappointed in this thread and it's relevant to be. it's not a buff regarding the heal and barrier nerf.

 

i expected srly a buff to the energy management, like hatred had. madness needs it for long term viability to his dps.

 

reconsider and change this "buff"

Edited June 29, 2017 by Thaladan

[Hichitsuki-hime]

You are just crying to make your class fotm. I agree that dot sorc (not lighting sorc since it has good dps) needs some buff but from what i have read in this thread you guys want to make this class super fotm: good force management + huge dps scale. And as a both ranked and unranked pvp player iam concerned about fighting new fotm classes. Bioware made serious mistake by listening merc whiners, now i dont want them to make same mistake with sorcs. Advanced prototype pt is also in a bad position but no one cries so much about buffing them to god mode. One class cant have both perfect force management and huge dps scale.

 

P.S. later ill send here screen shots with telekinetic/lighting sorcs dps to prove my point that lighting sorc doesn't need buff to dps, and it's a skill matter.

 

P. P. S. Thinking only about pve adjustments is a wrong way of making class balance, both pvp (ranked and unranked) and pve must be considered. It's same if i play on pt, and will start to whine on forums that pt must do much more dos than other classes. In this case people will laugh at me lol. Your selfish messages may ruin class balance changes.

 

dude.... are you okay? ... comparing hte sorc to a merc is kinda really not right.

1) all 3 merc specs are actually viable, while sorcs have received big heal nerf, lightning is apparently the worst parsing spec in the game and madness which far behind top dps specs is getting +5%.... to 2 abilities... HAHAHAHA.... except it's really kinda more insulting than funny.

2) unlike the merc spec madness has huge issues :

- being force negative if u actually do your best and try to do as much dps as u can.

- death field stacks consumed by not only other madness sorcs, but even hatred assassins. what's the point of buffing it if those stacks are instantly gone if your raid team has 2 madness sorcs or a madness sorc and hatred assassin?

3) and lastly, we don't ask to be made as OP as the arsenal merc.... we just want a proper buff, not something that will be most likely barely felt by most of the players, outside of the top 10% of the sorcs lol.:D

[ivanhedgehog]

I think that may be what they are doing here. Because 5.0 was so pro-ranged, and melee was the one on the bad end [least in PVP], they are doing a 180. That doesn't make melee OP, but, it does seem that perhaps this is what they are doing because Pyro and Hatred [melee specs] buffs are seemingly better than this.

 

I could be wrong of course, it's just a theory.

 

Also, 10k is not the target number, that figure they used as an example, I've have seen it mentioned in other class forums that have gotten either buffed or nerfed. 10k is not the official target number. That was just an hypothetical example.

 

Touching the bubble and self-heals though for DPS sorcs, I can't even begin to imagine what they were thinking.

 

This madness buff looks like it will help more in PVP than in PVE though. It's a bit skimpy for a buff for a spec in this condition. But than, things don't always play out as they appear on paper, so even though it looks less lackluster, it may perform better in live, and we also don't know for sure all changes that will take place, they say all these things are subject to change at anytime before release.

 

Sorry it wasn't more guys, but, considering Lightning, it could be worse heh.

 

They arent putting it on pts, they dont really care what we think. They have wanted to drop all dps down to a lower target for a while, they are finally doing that. They have said that they dont care if that dps level is enough to take down all content, that isnt the balance teams problem.

[mike_carton]

I am still so angry about this crap that I cancelled my sub. I cant believe that I was such an idiot and trusted in the devs. I am desperately disappointed.

 

I was also all caught up in the personnel change and increased communication and so on. I had gotten all 248s on my long-suffering main character and they were going to balance the classes. Things were looking up. So recently, in a moment of irrational exuberance, I bought and applied a six-month time card. Then the details of 5.3 changes started being rolled out. Imagine what I'm feeling like right now. I should've known better, but I guess some lessons have to be relearnt periodically.

 

I quit my Ops teams and am currently on a week's self-imposed abstinence from SWTOR, in preparation for a longer hiatus. At this point, if these changes go in as revealed thus far, I'm thinking of writing off most of the remaining subscription period as an educational expense and switching to some other game.

Edited June 29, 2017 by mike_carton

[ivanhedgehog]

Eric, tell the dev teams not to make a new fotm pls. Or you will have numerous messages about "nerf sorcs pls". We don't need new merc but without a gun, ok? All classes must be balanced.

 

we have idiots calling for sorc nerfs even when they are the lowest already, what difference does a few more make?

[Darrahsrhaw]

You are just crying to make your class fotm. I agree that dot sorc (not lighting sorc since it has good dps) needs some buff but from what i have read in this thread you guys want to make this class super fotm: good force management + huge dps scale. And as a both ranked and unranked pvp player iam concerned about fighting new fotm classes. Bioware made serious mistake by listening merc whiners, now i dont want them to make same mistake with sorcs. Advanced prototype pt is also in a bad position but no one cries so much about buffing them to god mode. One class cant have both perfect force management and huge dps scale.

 

P.S. later ill send here screen shots with telekinetic/lighting sorcs dps to prove my point that lighting sorc doesn't need buff to dps, and it's a skill matter.

 

P. P. S. Thinking only about pve adjustments is a wrong way of making class balance, both pvp (ranked and unranked) and pve must be considered. It's same if i play on pt, and will start to whine on forums that pt must do much more dos than other classes. In this case people will laugh at me lol. Your selfish messages may ruin class balance changes.

AP pt can do nim raids sorc dps cant

[indelible]

Honestly, the more I think about these changes, the more I worry about the future of SWTOR in Keith's hands.

 

The heals nerfs didn't just impact healers. The changes to shield hit the entire class, including all ACs. That means that, right out of the gate, sorc deeps got hit with a survivability nerf. I was hoping this would be offset by a larger buff to our offheals and base damage, but that's not what happens.

 

So the basic outcome of this patch is... not much. Our damage goes up by less than 2%, and our offheals doesn't really change at all ( maybe 2-2.5% additional with shield nerf taken into account ). Add to that the slap-dash "we rolled it all into one change" approach; whoever thought it was a good idea to dial up Force Leach is a qualified, master idiot, frankly.

 

So basically, this patch has achieved nothing. It's also drawn into question the care and consideration that goes into balance and class design. I don't want to play a game where the devs achieve things by taking the path of less resistance. I understand the constraints involved, however... the way the sorc changes have been handled across the board stinks of woeful incompetence. It appears that the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing. How any dev can sit there and make these changes to the AC and not notice the problems created by shield nerf and lack of powerful DCDs? Do you guys work in a total vacuum? Eric, perhaps you could enlighten me; do you share an office space, or do you all have your own vacuum-sealed modules attached to the D-EA-th Star? Totally pointless waste of time. I am struggling to see why I should continue to pay to play a game that has developers so detached from the game itself.

Edited June 29, 2017 by indelible

[LordTurin]

Ahh okay, gotcha. Good for dummy parsing than, but not much else.

 

Learn something new everyday. Much obliged.

 

Not quite, it wastes a gcd so you are still better off doing something else (either tracer missle cause it'll do more damage than stealth scan increase by, or auto attack to build another stack of supercharge if you are in trouble energy wise).

[VaeVictis]

P.S. later ill send here screen shots with telekinetic/lighting sorcs dps to prove my point that lighting sorc doesn't need buff to dps, and it's a skill matter.

 

Would love to see screenshots of a Lightning Sorc in Ranked PvP.

 

If it's unranked then don't bother nobody cares how much fluff damage your Sorc did freecasting against baddies.

[BraverDre]

You are just crying to make your class fotm. I agree that dot sorc (not lighting sorc since it has good dps) needs some buff but from what i have read in this thread you guys want to make this class super fotm: good force management + huge dps scale. And as a both ranked and unranked pvp player iam concerned about fighting new fotm classes. Bioware made serious mistake by listening merc whiners, now i dont want them to make same mistake with sorcs. Advanced prototype pt is also in a bad position but no one cries so much about buffing them to god mode. One class cant have both perfect force management and huge dps scale.

 

P.S. later ill send here screen shots with telekinetic/lighting sorcs dps to prove my point that lighting sorc doesn't need buff to dps, and it's a skill matter.

 

P. P. S. Thinking only about pve adjustments is a wrong way of making class balance, both pvp (ranked and unranked) and pve must be considered. It's same if i play on pt, and will start to whine on forums that pt must do much more dos than other classes. In this case people will laugh at me lol. Your selfish messages may ruin class balance changes.

 

u were so happy that ur pt was getting buffed and now u have come here with ur noobish opinion that is so wrong I cant even explain. Madness is broken, lightning is broken. These specs are not welcomed in the game DO U UNDERSTAND... hold on.. u are just a troll. People should ignore u. Just because of people like u this game will die.

[BraverDre]

Would love to see screenshots of a Lightning Sorc in Ranked PvP.

 

If it's unranked then don't bother nobody cares how much fluff damage your Sorc did freecasting against baddies.

 

Man ignore this noob. Looks like he is a troll and an unranked pvp warrior who looks at numbers on a scoreboard.

 

P.S. BUFF SORCS PEOPLE ARE GOING TO UNSUB.

Edited June 29, 2017 by BraverDre

[BraverDre]

Why ??? Please Bioware tell us just WHY ???

This is not a “buff” – this is just a very very bad joke.

Really. I could cry  and I feel betrayed for beeing a loyal customer.

 

Let's unsub. My guildmates are not waiting for another patch. People are leaving the game..

 

that was probably their goal... To wipe people our of the game. 5.0 has no exit of this hole

Edited June 29, 2017 by BraverDre

[BraverDre]

http://dulfy.net/2017/06/21/swtor-pyrotech-powertech-plasmatech-vanguard-changes-5-3/

 

JUST LOOK AT THIS BUFF. VANGUARD WAS PLAYABLE IN PVE ANYWAYS AND THEY GIVE THEM SO MUCH DMG. WE SORCS THE WORST DPS CLASS CANT EVEN DO ALL NIM BOSSES AND THEY ONLY GIVE US 5% FC THAT BW IS DEAD

[AwkwardGinger]

http://dulfy.net/2017/06/21/swtor-pyrotech-powertech-plasmatech-vanguard-changes-5-3/

 

JUST LOOK AT THIS BUFF. VANGUARD WAS PLAYABLE IN PVE ANYWAYS AND THEY GIVE THEM SO MUCH DMG. WE SORCS THE WORST DPS CLASS CANT EVEN DO ALL NIM BOSSES AND THEY ONLY GIVE US 5% FC THAT BW IS DEAD

 

2 things. Pyro dps is squishier in pve than sorcs are. Pyro dps was basically only good on add fluff fights like Bestia and C0, which coincidentally you could bring a dps Sorc of either spec and do more dps on.

 

Also, all pve content in game has been cleared by a Lightning Sorc without using chain lightning bug. I was there for most of it. Granted we can't all be Malocath and I'm not saying we should say because Malocath can outdps Viru snipers and AP PT's that lightning is in a "good" place.

 

This change to madness does nothings to help its viability. The damage is subpar (although will still be better than virulence, which thanks to the changes will not be a burst spec at all but is still labled as quasi burst). It's sill squishy as heck in PVP and PVE and the amount of DCD's they have in comparison to other healers/RDPS is laughable. Lightning and madness both take extroardinarily skilled players to pull off. Same with AP PT and Pyro PT (also, the changes to pyro do not bring it in line with their goals) although there are a few more players who can pull that off instead of the like 4 or 5 they can do Sorc dps.

 

If they don't change things with 5.3 for a lot of these class changes you'll see a lot of people re-rolling Sorc for pve because it will have the best ranged dps.

 

And that's scary. Its less that sorcs will be the strongest and more that all the other RDPS are just so weak in comparison.

 

Given the public rage against pretty much every one of these changes I doubt they'll keep all of them. But it's Bioware, and it seems the more we rage against something the more enticed they are to follow through with the changes.

[FerkWork]

2 things. Pyro dps is squishier in pve than sorcs are. Pyro dps was basically only good on add fluff fights like Bestia and C0, which coincidentally you could bring a dps Sorc of either spec and do more dps on.

 

Also, all pve content in game has been cleared by a Lightning Sorc without using chain lightning bug. I was there for most of it. Granted we can't all be Malocath and I'm not saying we should say because Malocath can outdps Viru snipers and AP PT's that lightning is in a "good" place.

 

This change to madness does nothings to help its viability. The damage is subpar (although will still be better than virulence, which thanks to the changes will not be a burst spec at all but is still labled as quasi burst). It's sill squishy as heck in PVP and PVE and the amount of DCD's they have in comparison to other healers/RDPS is laughable. Lightning and madness both take extroardinarily skilled players to pull off. Same with AP PT and Pyro PT (also, the changes to pyro do not bring it in line with their goals) although there are a few more players who can pull that off instead of the like 4 or 5 they can do Sorc dps.

 

If they don't change things with 5.3 for a lot of these class changes you'll see a lot of people re-rolling Sorc for pve because it will have the best ranged dps.

 

And that's scary. Its less that sorcs will be the strongest and more that all the other RDPS are just so weak in comparison.

 

Given the public rage against pretty much every one of these changes I doubt they'll keep all of them. But it's Bioware, and it seems the more we rage against something the more enticed they are to follow through with the changes.

 

You misspelled Carnage Mara and AP PT. With the ranged spot going to an MM Sniper cause Le Shield. But it doesn't really matter cause 248 makes all DPS checks in the game irrelevant anyways.

Edited June 29, 2017 by FerkWork

[AdjeYo]

snip

- death field stacks consumed by not only other madness sorcs, but even hatred assassins. what's the point of buffing it if those stacks are instantly gone if your raid team has 2 madness sorcs or a madness sorc and hatred assassin?

snip

This is really something that should be fixed asap. Its been a problem for far too long and it's quite painful for both specs. I mean, we can even highlight buffs and debuffs we applied, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue for the game to track whose deathmark is on a target

Edited June 29, 2017 by AdjeYo

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

We want 10k on a dummy not 9.8k. Dont tell up please u don't know about parseley... because it looks like the only single game player is u that has 0 clue about swtor hight end content. You also have zero clue about the class in general. We are talking about numbers here, statistics and raids. You are talking about 60 mils haha in pvp. please go back to unraked warzone matches

 

I appreciate the situation DPS sorcs are in and I do support their getting better entirely.

 

That said, Parsley has no basis for being involved in class balancing. SWTOR shouldn't take that into consideration because it is not reflective of the norm. People do not upload bad or average parses unto parsley, I use parsley myself, and I have parses on it as well, but what you see on parsely is the best of the best. It is by no means the norm or average.

 

Parses, of any type, whether dummy parsing, parses from raiding, or any game play, are effected by RNG. It doesn't matter how much skill and understand of the spec a person has or hasn't, for that will only account for a part of the end results. Obviously, the more skill and understanding the better you will likely do of course, but that only the part you have control of.

 

Every single attack, miss or hit, is effected by RNG [Accuracy, defense, utilities,buffs, debuffs, etc]. Every time you hit, RNG determines how much damage you with your stat pool [damage isn't set it's a range , 3878-4023 i.e.. Every time you try and hit, it's effected by RNG. Crit Chance has a very strong effect on parsing, sometimes you will crit alot sometimes you will crit much less.

 

The top parses you see on parsley, are the best of the best. RNG Gods and 4 leaf clovers all were present on the very best parses.These are not standards to be applied to average players because skill levels and gear will vary baseline.

 

You will also see some Operation parses that are so high and you say to yourself, I can never hit that high! , but than if you go on and look at the specifics, you may find that the person was fluffing their numbers greatly by AOEing the hell out of a group of adds they didn't need to or normally wouldn't have the opportunity to in most cases. This isn't always the case of course, and their are some exceptional players who do exceptional damage, but by and large these top performers are just that, exceptions.

 

SWTOR would absolute fools to use Parsely as any sort of gauge for class balance because all you will find on parsely [by and large] are exceptional parses, the best of the best [ even if that is variable player to player]. No one uploads their average parses, and certainly not their less than stellar parses. It's unrealistic gauge to use because it is not at all representative of the norm.

 

There is always going to be variations in DPS between the classes, and that's not a bad thing persay. Where it can be bad is when those variations between the DPS rankings are extreme, like we presently have. We have over a 1000 DPS differential between Rank 1 and Rank 18 on the DPS chart. Thats an extremely wide margin and overkill, a difference of 500 at most would be better and more realistic range.

The heals need to be upped, God bubble at this point really only delays death, it should have a stronger heal on it. I would go as far as to see, as long as thier DPS doesn't exceed mid range, they should be the only DPS specs with a H2F.

 

BW is not going to make any big DPS improvements on them. As bad as they are now, it's important to remember that not soo so long ago, Sorcs ruled the roost in PVP and people haven't forgotten that, so I think that is why BW is a but skiddish to make any big moves upping them.

 

 

10k base range for DPS, they used that only to make an example, they never said that was the target number, so they aren't going back on what they said, that was just some confusion in the initial posting that somehow got sent through the grape vine and a lot of people think that's what they had said.

 

If Snipers aren't going to be doing it, there no chance sorcs will be. Far as Ranged goes, Sniper should do the best DPS as it's a pure DPS class [err....kinda...] but, that doesn't mean they have to do a rediculous amount more than Sorcs. They have so much more going for them even with their proposed nerds that it's hard to make that argument for them. Sorcs should have gotten stronger DPS buffs, but because all the other rDPS specs are getting DPS nerfed, sorcs are not going to be in the same position as they have been thus far compared to other rDPS. They may very well be a bit ahead of Mercs. So while the DPS buff was not what was hoped for, their situation will be markedly improved because they are no longer going to be so outgunned by the other rDPS classes. Lighting didn't get buffed at all, it should have at least gotten some dps buff, even if it wasn't alot like Madness. But they should not have touched the bubble or the self heals, because even if Sorcs end up with a bit higher DPS than mercs let's say, they are still going be far behind them defensively, at least until they go on to utilities.

 

You may find, despite the meager buff, that Sorcs are going to be a lot more viable as rDPS than they have been. While Lighting wasn't buffed, pretty much every other ranged spec in the game is or will be getting it's DPSed nerfed some. I don't think Lightning is going to stay bottom of the barrel after 5.3. But, we'll just have to wait and see, not too long now.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

You are just crying to make your class fotm. I agree that dot sorc (not lighting sorc since it has good dps) needs some buff but from what i have read in this thread you guys want to make this class super fotm: good force management + huge dps scale. And as a both ranked and unranked pvp player iam concerned about fighting new fotm classes. Bioware made serious mistake by listening merc whiners, now i dont want them to make same mistake with sorcs. Advanced prototype pt is also in a bad position but no one cries so much about buffing them to god mode. One class cant have both perfect force management and huge dps scale.

 

P.S. later ill send here screen shots with telekinetic/lighting sorcs dps to prove my point that lighting sorc doesn't need buff to dps, and it's a skill matter.

 

P. P. S. Thinking only about pve adjustments is a wrong way of making class balance, both pvp (ranked and unranked) and pve must be considered. It's same if i play on pt, and will start to whine on forums that pt must do much more dos than other classes. In this case people will laugh at me lol. Your selfish messages may ruin class balance changes.

 

AP is not in a bad position, it still has great burst. I see AP doing sick damage in PVP all the time, perhaps not always the best, but very good. Defenses are something else, but AP is no where near Sorc level.

 

 

And yeah, you will occasionally see Lightning/Madness sorcs doing good, there is one on my server [Hoppi] that tops the boards regularly, but he is an exceptional player, far from the norm. I'm not saying Lightning should be top tier DPS it shouldn't, but you cannot say that it's DPS is good, Whatever it can do, every other DPS spec can do better. There are always some exceptional players who can make anything work very well, but thats exactly what they are, exceptions, and you don't base class balance on exceptions, that would be not only short-sighted, but idiotic.

 

I can also show you screen shots of Snipers, Marauders and Assassins doing crap damage. No class does great all on its own, some people do great with them, and some people do like total *** with them. Good, bad, ugly, every class and spec in the game has people doing all three.

Edited June 29, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Not going to happen. TK/Lightning is burst damage so they should be below dot specs. We will only see a big nerf to TK/Lightning.

 

This is was from Bant. Your point does not apply in this game.

 

 

 

There is very little difference between Burst and Sustained in SWTOR. All of the DoT classes rely more on Big Hitting moves than they do DoTs and the Burst DPS have all been toned down to the point where most of their moves do same damage. The biggest difference between Burst and DoTs is not sustained damage, its ability to change targets quickly vs setup time. But there are very few fights that require a target to be killed in less than 10 GCDs which lets all of the DoT classes to stand equal to the Burst classes (and the DoT Application is already factored into the DPS for those classes).

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Man ignore this noob. Looks like he is a troll and an unranked pvp warrior who looks at numbers on a scoreboard.

 

P.S. BUFF SORCS PEOPLE ARE GOING TO UNSUB.

 

Anyone who thinks that Ranked play is a sign of a superior player, that people who play regs are bad, and that someone who plays ranked would definately beat someone who only plays regs, is an idiot.

 

Ranked is a joke. It means nothing, it is filled with wintraders, cheaters, people who throw games on purpose, and filled to the brim with FoTM classes. There are so who play ranked who don't fit that mold, but it doesn't matter, because all the ranking is effected by those that do fit the mold.

 

I get asked all the time to do ranked, and I always say no because I hate 95% of the e-pen virgin toxic assOs that tend to be present, and I stick to regs because of it.

 

You won't find one person who knows me who will say I'm bad, I don't know what I'm doing, and my numbers aren't high. I'm not saying I'm the best, in fact, I'm saying I am not the best. But, I'd say there's a decent chance I'm better than you.

 

Ranked = skill......please. Skill = skill.

 

There is a DPS sorc on my server [Hoppi], that would kick the *** of anyone of any class period. He kick's my *** regularly on my Marauder. Skill. He plays regs all the time, and I would put my money on him over any Ranked player in the entire game.

 

Number's matter. At least to those who can put up decent ones.

Edited June 29, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[BraverDre]

Anyone who thinks that Ranked play is a sign of a superior player, that people who play regs are bad, and that someone who plays ranked would definately beat someone who only plays regs, is an idiot.

 

Ranked is a joke. It means nothing, it is filled with wintraders, cheaters, people who throw games on purpose, and filled to the brim with FoTM classes. There are so who play ranked who don't fit that mold, but it doesn't matter, because all the ranking is effected by those that do fit the mold.

 

I get asked all the time to do ranked, and I always say no because I hate 95% of the e-pen virgin toxic assOs that tend to be present, and I stick to regs because of it.

 

You won't find one person who knows me who will say I'm bad, I don't know what I'm doing, and my numbers aren't high. I'm not saying I'm the best, in fact, I'm saying I am not the best. But, I'd say there's a decent chance I'm better than you.

 

Ranked = skill......please. Skill = skill.

 

There is a DPS sorc on my server [Hoppi], that would kick the *** of anyone of any class period. He kick's my *** regularly on my Marauder. Skill. He plays regs all the time, and I would put my money on him over any Ranked player in the entire game.

 

Number's matter. At least to those who can put up decent ones.

 

No no no. Many good players do unranked to farm components to upgrade gear. The thing is. We are talking about a sorc dps problems and numbers on parseley. I can kick ur mara on my sorc but it doesnt allow me to run all NiM content because sorcs are not welcomed. Raidleaders dont take sorc dps in madness to do HM Revan Ravangers and NIM. We should stop talking about players and start talking about the class. We sorcs pay 15$ a month and what we get in return? Nothing but a broken class that deal 1k less dps than other good classes like mara carnage (10,8k), mercs (10k).. and only top sorcs can do 9k-9.4 and when we are doing raids we run out of force because the class is broken.

Edited June 29, 2017 by BraverDre

[BraverDre]

2 things. Pyro dps is squishier in pve than sorcs are. Pyro dps was basically only good on add fluff fights like Bestia and C0, which coincidentally you could bring a dps Sorc of either spec and do more dps on.

 

Also, all pve content in game has been cleared by a Lightning Sorc without using chain lightning bug. I was there for most of it. Granted we can't all be Malocath and I'm not saying we should say because Malocath can outdps Viru snipers and AP PT's that lightning is in a "good" place.

 

This change to madness does nothings to help its viability. The damage is subpar (although will still be better than virulence, which thanks to the changes will not be a burst spec at all but is still labled as quasi burst). It's sill squishy as heck in PVP and PVE and the amount of DCD's they have in comparison to other healers/RDPS is laughable. Lightning and madness both take extroardinarily skilled players to pull off. Same with AP PT and Pyro PT (also, the changes to pyro do not bring it in line with their goals) although there are a few more players who can pull that off instead of the like 4 or 5 they can do Sorc dps.

 

If they don't change things with 5.3 for a lot of these class changes you'll see a lot of people re-rolling Sorc for pve because it will have the best ranged dps.

 

And that's scary. Its less that sorcs will be the strongest and more that all the other RDPS are just so weak in comparison.

 

Given the public rage against pretty much every one of these changes I doubt they'll keep all of them. But it's Bioware, and it seems the more we rage against something the more enticed they are to follow through with the changes.

 

1. Thing we are getting nerfed

2 thing we run out of force

3 i am tired of these community where people that dont play NIM give some sort of recommendations.

[BraverDre]

Cmon SORCS where are u. Speak! We need to fight for our class because there are noobs trying to give Devs suggestions on how to balnce the class even when they dont even play the class and all they do is unrabked pvp

 

***** players are unsubbing and all u guys pvp warriors will be the last *** players in this game

Edited June 29, 2017 by BraverDre

[ObscureKnight]

so that's the reason why you post madness changes at last....

this is a joke ??? do you really mean it ?! 5% on two abilities ?! this is much too less.

sry this isn't fun. its terrible. awful !

 

@eith and eric - you have to talk to your combat team about this.

please explain why you hate so sorcs so much.

 

The question indeed, why do they hate the sage/sorc..........

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

No no no. Many good players do unranked to farm components to upgrade gear. The thing is. We are talking about a sorc dps problems and numbers on parseley. I can kick ur mara on my sorc but it doesnt allow me to run all NiM content because sorcs are not welcomed. Raidleaders dont take sorc dps in madness to do HM Revan Ravangers and NIM. We should stop talking about players and start talking about the class. We sorcs pay 15$ a month and what we get in return? Nothing but a broken class that deal 1k less dps than other good classes like mara carnage (10,8k), mercs (10k).. and only top sorcs can do 9k-9.4 and when we are doing raids we run out of force because the class is broken.

 

And you think Sorcs should do as much damage as Marauders?

 

DPS specs will never do the same DPS and nor should they. You have to take into consideration things other than DPS and DCDs. Skills matter, abilties matter, perma stealth effects things, the ability to self heal or not to self heal affects things, mobility effects things and attack range very much effects things.

Ranged classes shouldn't do as much DPS as melee classes, ranged has better up time than melee does.

 

I do agree their DPS is too low, they never should have nerfed their self heals or their bubble, in fact they should have buffed them. And if force management is such that you cannot maintain an on going cycling rotation, that it absolutely needs to have that addressed without question.

 

Numbers on parsley mean nothing. They are exceptional cases, they are often the best of the best with inordinate amounts of crits landed, they are by no means the norm nor the average.

 

If we used Parsley as a Guide than Combat Sentinels need a buff, because the top Carnage Marauders have hit higher DPS than the top Combat Sentinels and they are literally the same exact class in every single way save for the way the animations look.

 

Should we buff Combat Sentinels because they haven't hit as high DPS as Carnage Marauders despite the fact there is no difference between the classes except for ascetics?

 

There are Assassins are parsley that have hit higher than any Marauder spec or merc spec, but you are not siting them, why?

 

Sorc is a ranged class, Marauder isn't, merc is. So is Sniper and Snipers have hit higher than Marauders have on parsely, theyre a ranged specs. Even with their nerf they will do more damage than sorcs, and they should. Mercs, I do believe Sorc will have a DPS edge on Mercs with the nerf to their DPS that they are getting.

 

I'm a big proponent for Sorcs getting buffed, but as other posters have said, we don't want to create new FOTM OP classes either. I think their rDPS specs will be much closer after 5.3 and so that will make Sorcs more viable rDPS choices. We won't really know for sure how the nerfs and buffs will actually play out til it goes live. Things don't always turn out the same as they looked on paper. Slow but sure is the safer bet, and just because Madness only got a 5% DPS buff doesn't mean they can't be further adjusted in a subsequent patch.

 

Anyway you cut it though, using Parsley as a basis for class balance would be a terrible way to go. Just because one or two people have hit 10.8k doesn't mean that's a norm, an average, or likely. It's not, it's an aberration, far from the norm.

 

And I say this quite generally, no matter how bad a class is performing no matter how long they have been performing that way, no class is entitled to being overpowered. Not every class should have the same DPS. Just as not every DPS spec has the same self heals, one class doesn't have them at all. If you say they should all have the same DPS levels, than they should all have the same self healing levels otherwise you make the DPS spec with the best self heals, the better DPS spec out of hand even if their DPS is exactly the same.

 

There are too big of DPS differences between specs of the same role type [rDPS, mDPS, etc]. Those should be brought closer together for sure, but they shouldn't be the same.

 

Ranged has 7.5 times the attack range that melee does, which means they are less likely to suffer as much downtime as melee, such things need to be taken into consideration. That doesn't mean the difference should be vast, but there is some legitimate reasons for some differences. DPS sorcs most certainly wouldn't become OP if they got another 5% DPS added on top, but because other ranged classes are also getting nerfed DPS wise at the same time, that closes the DPS gap between rDPS classes further than just the 5% DPS buff on it's own would suggest.

 

Lightning didn't get squat, so it could be worse.

 

Sorc DPS should have gotten a bit more of a buff, but if they are not going to do that, than they should at very least rescind the self heals and bubble nerf, and buff the self heals on top of it.

 

Slow but sure is often the safer bet.

Edited June 30, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx