Class Changes: Corruption Sorcerer / Seer Consular

[tolaez]

Also - I'd like to offer some important criticism. These adjustments are not being presented very well. We're not getting a real picture of the destination when you're only showing us a small piece of what's going on at a time.

 

Often times players will be comparing a class that's getting nerfs to another class that may also have nerfs incoming too. On top of that there doesn't seem to be any mention of utilities. How can we really gauge how a discipline could fare after these changes without also knowing what's going on with the utilities? For example it seems to me that most people were expecting survivability nerfs to mercs/mandos through their utilities.

 

So you guys expect feedback but really mostly what you're going to get is knee jerk reactions based on an incomplete picture.

 

Maybe these changes should be released all at once on the forums and include the utilities? Then we might have a chance to see how things might stack up. I realize the intent of posting your outline for targets beforehand, but this just isn't working too well imo.

[ProcessHeals]

A ~20% healing decrease (averaged based on usage) across all skills when hps output was not the biggest issue to begin with. This strategy overnerfs raw output while not properly address the problems with sorc/sage healing.

 

There are currently two major issues with sorc/sage healing compared to the other classes:

 

The first is that due to simple and overly-forgiving force management combined with over-utilization of 'smart' healing abilities, they're much easier to play at an effective level.

 

The other issue, which is what sees sorcs rising to the top particularly in ranked pvp, is the high mobility and lack of necessary hard casting due to most of the healing being loaded into instant and 'smart' abilities.

 

 

The proposed changes will have a severe negative impact healers at all skill levels. If it does knock sorcs and sages out of 'fotm' status, it'll only be because the healing output is so far behind the other classes.

 

Any metrics you have showing that sorcs have a significantly higher output than the other classes is due to the fact that target selection and resource management are a lot more forgiving than other classes which allows inexperienced players able to put up bigger numbers than their skill suggests.

 

 

With all of that being said, here is my counter-proposal with explanations for each item:

 

• Increase the cooldown of roaming mend by 5 seconds (15 to 20s)
  
• Reduce the base force regenerated by consuming darkness from 40 to 25
  
• Increase the force regenerated by consuming darkness by consuming 1 stack of force surge to 15 (up from 5)
  

 

(for the)DevNotes: The 5 second cooldown increase to roaming mend will increase the time between burst windows and force healers to think creatively both about what to do with the 3~ extra gcds between mends as well as think more carefully about it's usage as not to waste the potential. The end result is a 30% hps decrease for the ability and approximately a 4% hps decrease overall.

 

It's impossible to make roaming mend ineffective as a single target heal (unless you nerf it by more than 50% or prevent it from hitting a target more than once), but this strategy forces players to do more casting (particularly infusion in single target) between mends.

 

The changes to consuming darkness make resource management important. Overall force management will be tighter due to the decreased force regeneration of consuming darkness with force surge stacks (by 5). This will reduce sustained hps by a further 5% or so due to the added consumes needed to maintain force. In addition, the steep decrease in base the base regen of consuming darkness will make using it without force surge very costly in terms of healing downtime.

 

These adjustments address both the sustained and burst healing targets, but do so in a way that creates a noticeable skill progression for the class. The maximum healing will go down moderately while the average healing outputs will probably drop sharply to become more in line with other classes at relative experience levels.

[stu_ungar]

I kinda feel cheated, working hard to get my seer to tier 4 only to have it rendered unplayable.

 

This is my biggest gripe, I invested a ton of money and time into command leveling, gearing, valor, crew skills, gsf on my healer just for it to be trashed by BW. I have no problem switching to any of my alts, if all those things grinded would be readily available...

[stu_ungar]

I really feel like they are just trying to make the Sorc useless. People are happy because there won't be anymore God heals, but really? When someone in pvp starts attacking my sorc I have to refocus my attention to staying alive and hoping that the person's dps is low, or that they don't know what they're doing. and if more than one person focuses me, I'm screwed. Sure I can survive for a long time, by healing "myself". When we are targeted we aren't doing our team mates any good, because we are just trying to stay alive. Other healers are happy because they will be able to compete with our healing, but are you only looking at that stat? What about defense? What about damage? We have great healing because we suck at everything else! Healing is what our class has become known for, and now that's a problem because we do a good job at it? I really believe that the number of corruption sorcs that there are don't matter; just because they play the class doesn't mean they are good at it, it takes alot of concentration and skill to be the kind of Corrupt Sorc that alot of you are not liking.

 

Well this nerf is obvious sign they nerf mostly by complaints instead of real numbers. My healer dies within seconds when a good team focuses me with stuns, roots and slows, yet on most matches people just run around smacking whoever is closest to them. Ops have stealth and mezzes ffs and now you take away our heal to balance it out? LOL.

[thetracer]

A ~20% healing decrease (averaged based on usage) across all skills when hps output was not the biggest issue to begin with. This strategy overnerfs raw output while not properly address the problems with sorc/sage healing.

 

There are currently two major issues with sorc/sage healing compared to the other classes:

 

The first is that due to simple and overly-forgiving force management combined with over-utilization of 'smart' healing abilities, they're much easier to play at an effective level.

 

The other issue, which is what sees sorcs rising to the top particularly in ranked pvp, is the high mobility and lack of necessary hard casting due to most of the healing being loaded into instant and 'smart' abilities.

 

 

The proposed changes will have a severe negative impact healers at all skill levels. If it does knock sorcs and sages out of 'fotm' status, it'll only be because the healing output is so far behind the other classes.

 

Any metrics you have showing that sorcs have a significantly higher output than the other classes is due to the fact that target selection and resource management are a lot more forgiving than other classes which allows inexperienced players able to put up bigger numbers than their skill suggests.

 

 

With all of that being said, here is my counter-proposal with explanations for each item:

 

• Increase the cooldown of roaming mend by 5 seconds (15 to 20s)
  
• Reduce the base force regenerated by consuming darkness from 40 to 25
  
• Increase the force regenerated by consuming darkness by consuming 1 stack of force surge to 15 (up from 5)
  

 

(for the)DevNotes: The 5 second cooldown increase to roaming mend will increase the time between burst windows and force healers to think creatively both about what to do with the 3~ extra gcds between mends as well as think more carefully about it's usage as not to waste the potential. The end result is a 30% hps decrease for the ability and approximately a 4% hps decrease overall.

 

It's impossible to make roaming mend ineffective as a single target heal (unless you nerf it by more than 50% or prevent it from hitting a target more than once), but this strategy forces players to do more casting (particularly infusion in single target) between mends.

 

The changes to consuming darkness make resource management important. Overall force management will be tighter due to the decreased force regeneration of consuming darkness with force surge stacks (by 5). This will reduce sustained hps by a further 5% or so due to the added consumes needed to maintain force. In addition, the steep decrease in base the base regen of consuming darkness will make using it without force surge very costly in terms of healing downtime.

 

These adjustments address both the sustained and burst healing targets, but do so in a way that creates a noticeable skill progression for the class. The maximum healing will go down moderately while the average healing outputs will probably drop sharply to become more in line with other classes at relative experience levels.

 

By god, if I could upvote something to the top of the thread, it would be this.

 

Let me tell you guys something. I absolutely used the "smartness" of roaming mend as a catch-all clutch to make up for deficiencies in rotation and force management. Team taking widespread damage? Don't bother single targeting, roaming mend will keep people alive while I spam consuming darkness. I hate to say, in a pinch, I will still do it. It's the most OP part of being a sorc. And I should know, because honestly? Put me with a single alive teammate, and have me try to single target heal him? I became no more special than any healer.

 

I'll say another thing. As a person who uses the crutches described in this post, and reading the proposed nerfs to those crutches? I would be 100% in favor of them. Especially when compared with the devs' (rather embarrassing looking, by comparison) original proposal. Keep in mind that, I've been mouthing off like a rabid animal in this thread, and yet, before today, I had never posted on the forums before. Ever. That's how mad the original proposal made me, and yet, I would easily accept the above as perfectly reasonable. That should say something.

 

One last thing. For the love of anything people, keep quoting the above post. Put it on every page of this thread from now on.

Edited June 23, 2017 by thetracer

[Yezzan]

Okay. This is just plain ole ridiculous. Firstly, if your statement that HPS is not based on spec is true, meaning there is only one target HPS, then you would have no need to be making any adjustments to Sorcerers. It is not unusual that people cannot identify what a problem is, so, they focus on the symptoms.

 

The fact is Operative healers have the highest HPS of the three healing specs; and they are, arguably, the hardest of the three specs to play.

 

While, on the other hand, Sorcerers are cooler - this has nothing to do with their DPS or HPS efficiency. People just like playing force users; it's star wars. Furthermore, Sorcerers are #2 on the HPS ranking and they are the easiest healing spec to play. The cool factor, coupled with the ease of playing the class, is what accounts for the reasons why players choose to use a Sorcerer as a healer vs an operative or a bounty hunter.

 

Given that it can be argued, more people choose to play Sorcerer healers than Operatives and bounty hunters, it can then be inferred that Sorcerers' efficiency at healing is exaggerated. What evidence do we have that sorcerers have a higher HPS than operatives and bounty hunters? Moreover, if sorcerers are performing above the target HPS, I am fairly certain that operatives are too; Bounty hunters, I'm not so sure.

 

I think the problem is Healing, in general, which needs to be toned down and not Corruption or Seer (specifically), which means the HPS target needs to be adjusted; and adjusting one healing spec, as opposed to adjusting all three simultaneously, is a bad move.

 

TTK should be the foundation of balance for PvP and then you set your target DPS, HPS and DTPS to be in congruence with the TTK. If you set arbitrary values for healing, damage and mitigation then TTK will be out of whack and make PvP less enjoyable. If no one is dying, there is no point.

 

A shortage of healers is not good for anybody - - Republic Pvp-ers can attest to that. And nerfing Sorcerers and Sages to the ground is not going to make people play Operatives and Bounty Hunters, they are just going to go to DPS or tank, and that's just going to mess up people trying to use GF for MM FPs and Veteran ops.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Yezzan

[stu_ungar]

Let me ask you/this thread a question.

 

Exactly why must all healers in the game have a single target HPS? Are all healers the same? Are burst healers the same as sustained healers? Is it so wrong to have a class, which is good at nothing else, at least be good at healing?

 

More questions.

 

Is there going to be a single target DPS for the game, and when can we expect Merc/Mara DPS to be reduced, or immortal jugg DPS to be raised, so that they all adhere to the target DPS for an swtor player?

 

Final question.

 

Please tell me what class you'd like me to play. You didn't want me to play Lightning sorc, and you sure as heck don't want me to play as a sorc healer. So what class would you, as developers recommend. Which class is your baby, you know, the one you like and don't mess with. I'll play anything, just work with me here. "Be open and honest" like you keep saying. What should I be playin?

 

You're absolutely right. If all classes are to be created equal than everyone should have stealth. If people don't see how overpowered stealth is compared to any of sorcs survival utils they are cynical or blind. *********** DPS can vanish while I'm god for being able to stand in a bubble in the middle of a battlefield for a few seconds before I die.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Remember way back, when you all pointed and laughed at snipers as Orbital became Lolbital. Guess who is getting laughed at now? Honestly what does the change to revivification bother you for? It was already a bad ability, unless you're in a heavy melee group or with a bunch of ranged stack it shouldn't have been used period. So no real change, use the stacks for consuming.

 

 

 

Packs now get Dath to come back and heal with you and we'll call it good.

 

lol u realize that before this we've already had the force storm nerfed to crap AND death field range as well? lol. so yeah we've already been at this point before.

[Yezzan]

Here is my constructive feedback.

 

The sheer number of items being nerfed coupled with the degree of defensive changes (DPS impacting) this healing class is going to drop to the bottom of the charts. Does it need a NERF? Yes - it's pretty much agreed that certain things need to be adjusted. This appears to be strictly based on someones broken calculator and MATH only. The % volume of change seems very unwarranted and I'm hoping some of the feedback is being considered.

 

 

The Class does not need a nerf, if we are to believe the HPS target is not per spec, but is one category for all healing specs. Operatives have a higher HPS than Sorcerers.

 

There are just nerfing Sorcerers because it is the class that most people choose to play for healer; and because healing, in general is overtuned, players complain about the only class that they see an abundance of: Sorcerers.

 

Healing needs to be nerfed; not Corruption Sorcerers. Unless BW don't know what the hell they are talking about ( target HPS).

[Hichitsuki-hime]

A ~20% healing decrease (averaged based on usage) across all skills when hps output was not the biggest issue to begin with. This strategy overnerfs raw output while not properly address the problems with sorc/sage healing.

 

There are currently two major issues with sorc/sage healing compared to the other classes:

 

The first is that due to simple and overly-forgiving force management combined with over-utilization of 'smart' healing abilities, they're much easier to play at an effective level.

 

The other issue, which is what sees sorcs rising to the top particularly in ranked pvp, is the high mobility and lack of necessary hard casting due to most of the healing being loaded into instant and 'smart' abilities.

 

 

The proposed changes will have a severe negative impact healers at all skill levels. If it does knock sorcs and sages out of 'fotm' status, it'll only be because the healing output is so far behind the other classes.

 

Any metrics you have showing that sorcs have a significantly higher output than the other classes is due to the fact that target selection and resource management are a lot more forgiving than other classes which allows inexperienced players able to put up bigger numbers than their skill suggests.

 

 

With all of that being said, here is my counter-proposal with explanations for each item:

 

• Increase the cooldown of roaming mend by 5 seconds (15 to 20s)
  
• Reduce the base force regenerated by consuming darkness from 40 to 25
  
• Increase the force regenerated by consuming darkness by consuming 1 stack of force surge to 15 (up from 5)
  

 

(for the)DevNotes: The 5 second cooldown increase to roaming mend will increase the time between burst windows and force healers to think creatively both about what to do with the 3~ extra gcds between mends as well as think more carefully about it's usage as not to waste the potential. The end result is a 30% hps decrease for the ability and approximately a 4% hps decrease overall.

 

It's impossible to make roaming mend ineffective as a single target heal (unless you nerf it by more than 50% or prevent it from hitting a target more than once), but this strategy forces players to do more casting (particularly infusion in single target) between mends.

 

The changes to consuming darkness make resource management important. Overall force management will be tighter due to the decreased force regeneration of consuming darkness with force surge stacks (by 5). This will reduce sustained hps by a further 5% or so due to the added consumes needed to maintain force. In addition, the steep decrease in base the base regen of consuming darkness will make using it without force surge very costly in terms of healing downtime.

 

These adjustments address both the sustained and burst healing targets, but do so in a way that creates a noticeable skill progression for the class. The maximum healing will go down moderately while the average healing outputs will probably drop sharply to become more in line with other classes at relative experience levels.

VERY THIS. this actually makes sense and seems sensible. in fact prob the best suggestion in the whole 19 pages of this rant-fest.

[WheresMyWhisky]

A ~20% healing decrease (averaged based on usage) across all skills when hps output was not the biggest issue to begin with. This strategy overnerfs raw output while not properly address the problems with sorc/sage healing.

 

There are currently two major issues with sorc/sage healing compared to the other classes:

 

The first is that due to simple and overly-forgiving force management combined with over-utilization of 'smart' healing abilities, they're much easier to play at an effective level.

 

The other issue, which is what sees sorcs rising to the top particularly in ranked pvp, is the high mobility and lack of necessary hard casting due to most of the healing being loaded into instant and 'smart' abilities.

 

 

The proposed changes will have a severe negative impact healers at all skill levels. If it does knock sorcs and sages out of 'fotm' status, it'll only be because the healing output is so far behind the other classes.

 

Any metrics you have showing that sorcs have a significantly higher output than the other classes is due to the fact that target selection and resource management are a lot more forgiving than other classes which allows inexperienced players able to put up bigger numbers than their skill suggests.

 

 

With all of that being said, here is my counter-proposal with explanations for each item:

 

• Increase the cooldown of roaming mend by 5 seconds (15 to 20s)
  
• Reduce the base force regenerated by consuming darkness from 40 to 25
  
• Increase the force regenerated by consuming darkness by consuming 1 stack of force surge to 15 (up from 5)
  

 

(for the)DevNotes: The 5 second cooldown increase to roaming mend will increase the time between burst windows and force healers to think creatively both about what to do with the 3~ extra gcds between mends as well as think more carefully about it's usage as not to waste the potential. The end result is a 30% hps decrease for the ability and approximately a 4% hps decrease overall.

 

It's impossible to make roaming mend ineffective as a single target heal (unless you nerf it by more than 50% or prevent it from hitting a target more than once), but this strategy forces players to do more casting (particularly infusion in single target) between mends.

 

The changes to consuming darkness make resource management important. Overall force management will be tighter due to the decreased force regeneration of consuming darkness with force surge stacks (by 5). This will reduce sustained hps by a further 5% or so due to the added consumes needed to maintain force. In addition, the steep decrease in base the base regen of consuming darkness will make using it without force surge very costly in terms of healing downtime.

 

These adjustments address both the sustained and burst healing targets, but do so in a way that creates a noticeable skill progression for the class. The maximum healing will go down moderately while the average healing outputs will probably drop sharply to become more in line with other classes at relative experience levels.

 

A very good description of the issue and far better solution than the one currently being proposed

[Rhys_lightning]

Why the hell?! first merc arsenals and now sorcs and sages now?! seriously devs they don't need nerfing, heck if any class needs nerfing down its the operatives and scoundrals, seriously

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I really feel like they are just trying to make the Sorc useless. People are happy because there won't be anymore God heals, but really? When someone in pvp starts attacking my sorc I have to refocus my attention to staying alive and hoping that the person's dps is low, or that they don't know what they're doing. and if more than one person focuses me, I'm screwed. Sure I can survive for a long time, by healing "myself". When we are targeted we aren't doing our team mates any good, because we are just trying to stay alive. Other healers are happy because they will be able to compete with our healing, but are you only looking at that stat? What about defense? What about damage? We have great healing because we suck at everything else! Healing is what our class has become known for, and now that's a problem because we do a good job at it? I really believe that the number of corruption sorcs that there are don't matter; just because they play the class doesn't mean they are good at it, it takes a lot of concentration and skill to be the kind of Corrupt Sorc that alot of you are not liking.

 

I get why some people think that Sorc heals are so OP. DPS attack them, and they can unload enough damage on them to bring a brick wall down and yet they just keep going. It seems like no matter how much damage you're doing to them, even the heaviest hitters can only put some dents in them. It's like they are unstoppable.

 

But here's the thing...

 

That's how it's supposed to be. DPSers shouldn't be knocking healers on their asses just because they've done enough damage to kill almost anyone else, how else could it possibly work and allow healers to be able to do their jobs? If one DPSer, even a Carnage Marauder or a balls deep skank tank, if they could be a threat to healers in the short term and make it so not only could the healer not be healing others because he's on death's door needing to concentraite on his own survival, the healer could not do their job to the group.

 

Is it annoying sometimes? Yeah it is.

 

I hate seeing what would otherwise be a 27k Devistating Blast on another opponent chopped down to a 10k hit. You just know your losing so much damage in the process, unable to put the damage you are capably of doing out there. But, it needs to be that way.

 

It isn't that you can't bring down a healer, a single DPSer can, it's just going to take a while, it's going to be hard, and you're not going to get the full value of your attacks on them. But putting pressure on a healer, even if you aren't doing enough damage to bring that healer down anytime soon, you can still put them on the defensive, you can still make them have to pay more attention on you as the attacker so that that attention isn't being paid to his group's health needs as much as had you just left the healer alone.

 

A good healer does, will, and should take a a good while to widdle down, once they start running low on resources and they start to realize thing's are looking Grim [pun very much intended] you can get them running scared.

 

I have to say, and to be fair here, I've never played a healer, but to me, it looks really, really hard. I cannot for the life me of me figure out how healers keep track of everyone's health, maintain raid awareness/WZ awareness, AND fight of all of their attackers at the same time. I mean, DPSing can't be any where near that hard. Healer's are literally marked for death in PVP heh, everyone and their mother wants to wack the healer.

 

Did Corruption sorcs need a nerf, well, yeah probably a bit, but this?

 

I knew, the second I read this line "These changes will undoubtedly look and feel harsh to players who have been healing on their Sorcerers / Sages for a long time." That it was going to be over the top.

 

They went to far with Merc DPS, they went too far with corruption sorcs, they went too far with DPS sorc self heals.

 

And you know what? They're going to go too far on every class they touch. It might not by your class this time around, but it will be next time or the time after that. I think they are going to touch every single class and spec in the game and I think we're all going to be very unhappy when this "class balance" is all done. I have no faith in this. Not one ounce.

Edited June 23, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[SilverStarSeaker]

Why the hell?! first merc arsenals and now sorcs and sages now?! seriously devs they don't need nerfing, heck if any class needs nerfing down its the operatives and scoundrals, seriously

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahhaha.. no

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

[cyrusramsey]

A ~20% healing decrease (averaged based on usage) across all skills when hps output was not the biggest issue to begin with. This strategy overnerfs raw output while not properly address the problems with sorc/sage healing.

 

There are currently two major issues with sorc/sage healing compared to the other classes:

 

The first is that due to simple and overly-forgiving force management combined with over-utilization of 'smart' healing abilities, they're much easier to play at an effective level.

 

The other issue, which is what sees sorcs rising to the top particularly in ranked pvp, is the high mobility and lack of necessary hard casting due to most of the healing being loaded into instant and 'smart' abilities.

 

 

The proposed changes will have a severe negative impact healers at all skill levels. If it does knock sorcs and sages out of 'fotm' status, it'll only be because the healing output is so far behind the other classes.

 

Any metrics you have showing that sorcs have a significantly higher output than the other classes is due to the fact that target selection and resource management are a lot more forgiving than other classes which allows inexperienced players able to put up bigger numbers than their skill suggests.

 

 

With all of that being said, here is my counter-proposal with explanations for each item:

 

• Increase the cooldown of roaming mend by 5 seconds (15 to 20s)
  
• Reduce the base force regenerated by consuming darkness from 40 to 25
  
• Increase the force regenerated by consuming darkness by consuming 1 stack of force surge to 15 (up from 5)
  

 

(for the)DevNotes: The 5 second cooldown increase to roaming mend will increase the time between burst windows and force healers to think creatively both about what to do with the 3~ extra gcds between mends as well as think more carefully about it's usage as not to waste the potential. The end result is a 30% hps decrease for the ability and approximately a 4% hps decrease overall.

 

It's impossible to make roaming mend ineffective as a single target heal (unless you nerf it by more than 50% or prevent it from hitting a target more than once), but this strategy forces players to do more casting (particularly infusion in single target) between mends.

 

The changes to consuming darkness make resource management important. Overall force management will be tighter due to the decreased force regeneration of consuming darkness with force surge stacks (by 5). This will reduce sustained hps by a further 5% or so due to the added consumes needed to maintain force. In addition, the steep decrease in base the base regen of consuming darkness will make using it without force surge very costly in terms of healing downtime.

 

These adjustments address both the sustained and burst healing targets, but do so in a way that creates a noticeable skill progression for the class. The maximum healing will go down moderately while the average healing outputs will probably drop sharply to become more in line with other classes at relative experience levels.

 

This needed more quoting.

[Alohajeje]

Hello, I would like to ask you WHY every time you make class changes for pvp you don't take pve into account? Every time. Stop killing PVE please. Some of us still try to clean "Master" formerly Nightmare content. I don't care about pvp, I'm getting almost OS by marauders and snipers each time I tag. So please, stop killing us just for pvp boys.

[SilverStarSeaker]

Hello, I would like to ask you WHY every time you make class changes for pvp you don't take pve into account? Every time. Stop killing PVE please. Some of us still try to clean "Master" formerly Nightmare content. I don't care about pvp, I'm getting almost OS by marauders and snipers each time I tag. So please, stop killing us just for pvp boys.

 

Or just don't make classes stupidly OP to kill pvpers just for the sake of the pve girls D:

Edited June 23, 2017 by SilverStarSeaker

[Ianosm]

Problem: mercs/mandos have too many dcd's making them tricky to kill while they dispense decent damage but nothing too earth shattering.

Genius dev solution: Lightly reduce the damage that nobody is complaining about but leave the dcd's that everyone is complaing about alone.

 

Problem: sorcs/sages can only play heals because their dps specs suck, their hps output is fine but there are lots of people playing heals because its the only viable spec and its utility makes it easy to play but it has less survivability than the other heal classes.

Genius dev solution: hammer the crap out of the hps that nobody was complaining about, do nothing to change to utility/rotation of the abilities that people were complaining about and while we are at it make the other 2 dps specs of the class even less viable than they already are.

 

Anyone else seeing a pattern? Nerfing the things we dont complain about...hmmmm maybe we should start not complaining about the things we want nerfed!

 

In all seriousness though this is just stupidity of the highest order. All driven by complaints/whining for all the wrong reasons. Vast majority of complaints I saw in forums prior to this were all about either too many healers in wzs and/or sorcs being 'easy' to play.

 

Most of these complaints were from people who didnt play healers ot from operative healers who seem to hate that sometimes sorcs can come close to their hps and their top dog position was being slightly threatened.

 

As somebody already pointed out, why do all healers have to be the same? So what if sorcs have slightly more burst at an easier cost/play style? As a sorc heal I could sit and whine all day about ops/mercs having way more survival than me. I would take a vanish/stealth or mutiple heal to fulls over a 'god' bubble that most competent dps just wait outside with a hard stun ready to smash my face in.

 

I have played sage heals since the start when they werent viable and I will continue to play it now that it wont be viable again. But this drive to have every class have the same dps/hps and utility is absolutely stupid and these changes will not bring any kind of balance at all.

 

As many others have pointed out, make heals cost more or increase cooldowns. Hell even make innervate no long castable while moving, as it was in the past. Reduce the mobility or 'easy' playstyle but hps nerfs benefit nobody, not the healer or anyone they are trying to keep alive.

[SilverStarSeaker]

Problem: mercs/mandos have too many dcd's making them tricky to kill while they dispense decent damage but nothing too earth shattering.

Genius dev solution: Lightly reduce the damage that nobody is complaining about but leave the dcd's that everyone is complaing about alone.

 

Problem: sorcs/sages can only play heals because their dps specs suck, their hps output is fine but there are lots of people playing heals because its the only viable spec and its utility makes it easy to play but it has less survivability than the other heal classes.

Genius dev solution: hammer the crap out of the hps that nobody was complaining about, do nothing to change to utility/rotation of the abilities that people were complaining about and while we are at it make the other 2 dps specs of the class even less viable than they already are.

 

Anyone else seeing a pattern? Nerfing the things we dont complain about...hmmmm maybe we should start not complaining about the things we want nerfed!

 

In all seriousness though this is just stupidity of the highest order. All driven by complaints/whining for all the wrong reasons. Vast majority of complaints I saw in forums prior to this were all about either too many healers in wzs and/or sorcs being 'easy' to play.

 

Most of these complaints were from people who didnt play healers ot from operative healers who seem to hate that sometimes sorcs can come close to their hps and their top dog position was being slightly threatened.

 

As somebody already pointed out, why do all healers have to be the same? So what if sorcs have slightly more burst at an easier cost/play style? As a sorc heal I could sit and whine all day about ops/mercs having way more survival than me. I would take a vanish/stealth or mutiple heal to fulls over a 'god' bubble that most competent dps just wait outside with a hard stun ready to smash my face in.

 

I have played sage heals since the start when they werent viable and I will continue to play it now that it wont be viable again. But this drive to have every class have the same dps/hps and utility is absolutely stupid and these changes will not bring any kind of balance at all.

 

As many others have pointed out, make heals cost more or increase cooldowns. Hell even make innervate no long castable while moving, as it was in the past. Reduce the mobility or 'easy' playstyle but hps nerfs benefit nobody, not the healer or anyone they are trying to keep alive.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9333043#edit9333043

 

The reason why merc dps got a nerf. This was for pve, not pvp.

[GUN_GAME]

That whine, FeelsGoodMan. Time to leave overlord throne and start using brain to do good HPS.

[stu_ungar]

That whine, FeelsGoodMan. Time to leave overlord throne and start using brain to do good HPS.

 

t. operative

[indelible]

Should have dropped entire class's changes at the same time.

 

The only way I can see those defensive nerfs being balanced out for Madness in any way is if you're going to buff our damage through the roof. If that doesn't happen, those people saying this latest balance pass will even further unbalance the game are talking truth.

[indelible]

Problem: mercs/mandos have too many dcd's making them tricky to kill while they dispense decent damage but nothing too earth shattering.

Genius dev solution: Lightly reduce the damage that nobody is complaining about but leave the dcd's that everyone is complaing about alone.

 

This is nonsense. Anyone who thinks merc damage was OK is living in lala land, or has a vested interest. DCDs are in an odd place, yeah, and they do need nerfing... but that damage output always needed to be brought down.

 

And for those arguing that a massive nerf to damage for mercs will makes ops unclearable... yeah, OK; they're clearly gonna buff up other classes, so that damage loss will be made up by buffs spread out across other ACs. Mercs become part of the crowd, rather than sitting all on thier own. Deal with it.

 

Problem: sorcs/sages can only play heals because their dps specs suck, their hps output is fine but there are lots of people playing heals because its the only viable spec and its utility makes it easy to play but it has less survivability than the other heal classes.

Genius dev solution: hammer the crap out of the hps that nobody was complaining about, do nothing to change to utility/rotation of the abilities that people were complaining about and while we are at it make the other 2 dps specs of the class even less viable than they already are.

 

Again, nonsense. Sorc heals was in a stupid place. They needed to be nerfed into the ground, hard. And posts saying as much are all of these boards, so when you say "no one was complaining about it", you're talking out of your backside.

[DaCUJO]

I hope your pvpers and sm guys that haven't already done your old *** content can support your game cause any chance of pve raids which seemed to be coming back a little more is over the HM and NIM stuff is already challenging as is for most now its goona be wipe feast and I know people I play with are sick of leveling through same content to get set back to old damage/healing levels every time ur characters nevr get stronger whats the point? and your pvp on iokath went well for ya? no one ever there. so keep changing things for pvpers and when u done they all switch to which ever class is most op and for the sorc in my raid team tuff **** the merc too bad the guy who use to play mm then sorc now merc u messing his class up yet again 5.3 then end for me

[In-The-Dark]

good thing i dont play this game srly anymore xD this nerfs ridiculous and off putting tbh