Class Changes (Sorc/Sage healing) - Perception of a problem, not a real problem.

[MandFlurry]

Ummmm no..... Nerf the sorc heals, take away their phase walk, reduce guarded tank radius, so tired of guarded sorcs talking trash..... It never fails we all experience it Guarded sorc heals with a premades of snipers/mercs telling everyone how great they are...... They need a huge nerf and if these ppl leave all the better, maybe all those who have left will come back

 

You and other people know nothing about Class balance, if all you guys can think about is Nerfing 1 Class or another, it never, it rarely works as intended, and maybe 1 other MMO got it right with 1 ESO class. Otherwise, it just doesn't work as intended, unless the game Devs also hate that said Class, which also does happen, which happened which could have happened with 1 or 2 classes in SWG.

 

In this game i see the Empire side get the most coolest abilities.

[Zolxtren]

 

In this game i see the Empire side get the most coolest abilities.

 

Bad guys allways get the good stuff

[Red_rocks]

A well played scoundrel can keep up in raw hps with a well played sage healer, they have very different burst profiles but theyre about on par output wise over time.

 

Scoundrel could use a very slight quality of life improvement by making their slow release medpacks heal for more and only stack once. More GCD's for direct heals would make the spec more interesting to play.

 

Mando/merc heals are a bit lower and could use a bump up - ONLY IF THEIR DCDs GET NERFED.

Mando/merc heals could use progressive scan being made less underwhelming - by adding a crit mechanic to it similar to what sages get with healing trance - or even a new interesting mechanic.. E.G. each time progressive scan crits gain a stack of bacta power (max 4). While you have 4 stacks of bacta power progressive scan has no cooldown. Each stack of bacta power increases the size of your next bacta infusion by 3000. Casting bacta infusion resets these stacks to 0.

This would make mercs pretty boss single target sustain healers and their burst wold be even better than it is already with supercharge.

 

Nerfs piss people off and make them quit.

Bring the healers into alignment pve wise.

Once all 3 healers are equal(ish) in pve - reduce the output in pvp areas of all healing by 25% across the board.

 

There, pve healing fixed, pvp healing fixed and nobody gets mad and quits.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Red_rocks

[AllisonLightning]

Once all 3 healers are equal(ish) in pve - reduce the output in pvp areas of all healing by 25% across the board.

 

There, pve healing fixed, pvp healing fixed and nobody gets mad and quits.

 

How about bad DPS just learn to do their job and display a modicum of situational awareness in PvP- because believe me, there are some DPS that would need me to have at 90% healing nerf to kill me... and there are DPS who know how to do their job and actually squish me without crying on the forums for a crutch. I'm an operative/scoundrel healer primarily and as said, my class is often voted most balanced healer by PvP players (perceived easier kill rate) and the new producer said as much as he'd like us to be indestructible/outperforming all other healers but alas.

 

You would still see issues if healers and tanks were banned from warzones because of bad DPS and 'this class is unfair!' and as a guildie said, even if we had all the exact same abilities, rotations and looked the same.

[Opaknack]

...

In pvp the heal classes are imbalanced.

Play operative/scoundrel healer vs a team with sage/sorc healer and you will see the problem.

When all players are at the same skill level you will lose every match (with scoundrel/operative).

More especially without Tank.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Opaknack

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

You and other people know nothing about Class balance, if all you guys can think about is Nerfing 1 Class or another, it never, it rarely works as intended, and maybe 1 other MMO got it right with 1 ESO class. Otherwise, it just doesn't work as intended, unless the game Devs also hate that said Class, which also does happen, which happened which could have happened with 1 or 2 classes in SWG.

 

In this game i see the Empire side get the most coolest abilities.

 

And as well they should, pubs are are useless and begging to be obliterated for thier inherent weaknesses as the Laws of Nature demand. The weak will fall in the wake of the stronger.

 

The IMP is a Lion as a Pub is a Doe.

 

The only hope pubs have of warding off their certain destruction is to realize their inferiority and defer to Imperial's in all things as their Lord and Masters. Utter and total servitude is their only hope of survival.

 

Beyond that, All pubs must die =]

[Foambreaker]

Not sure if this was mentioned but sorc survivability SOLO is not that great, add a guard and it gets a lot better, but keep in mind that is 2 players.

 

I think a lot of the players who complain they can't kill a sorc fail to mention the sorc is guarded.

[Stellarcrusade]

You don't want this class to be nerfed because you play it. Try other healing classes and then you will see why sroc is OP. Sorc heal is also very easy spec to play. Too easy. Even new players to pvp can make decent numbers in warzone when playing sroc heal.

 

Too bad you cannot read. My post states the reasons why it would be stupid to nerf the sorc healing, may want to re-read it. Furthermore, if sorc heals are nerfed, 1/4 of the player base leaves, and wars are 100% mercs. Hope that is what you want. The command system makes it not worth switching specs, so even if they give a little more dps to the sorc dps spec, its dead. All classes on swtor are easy to play, its not meant to be complicated here. Most every mmo has 1 class thats meant to be ONLY heals, thats Sorc. Merc heals are just fine, and can also kill someone, sorcs cannot. No matter what you want to do with heals, there will be one class that does the same as sorcs do now. And all healing classes have to be able to live easily in a 1v1. Perfect balance a healer 1v1 vs a DPS would result in healer being able to kick out some dps also and win easily. It should take 2 dps to put pressure or kill a healer. That's the way it has to be, by design, think about it.

 

Ok, but to summarize what you want is:

1.) Make 1/4 of the playerbase quit the game.

2.) Instead of 70% mercs in wars, lets move it to 100%.

3.) No more new players, if a class is easy to play eliminate it.

 

Are you working for a competing MMO by chance? Because it sounds like you want this one to die.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Stellarcrusade

[Stellarcrusade]

sorc healers pre-5.0 were just ridiclous to deal with, plus snipers, that just made things even worse.

 

sorc healers post-5.0 is still just as overpowering if not more so, trying to kill a healer in pvp is nigh impossible, especialyl since they can heal themselves quickly and still deal enough control effects on others.

 

it's a big problem, perceptive or not.

 

You are wrong. Try to understand my original post. Sorc healers have not changed, its just that the nerf of the DPS spec has added more healers to the wars plus the 70% mercs on the battlefield do not need any healing which frees up the healer even more. If you have a war with 2 healers and you focus 1, the other one heals him. If you and 3 others tunnel the one, the 3 other healers keep him healed. You may call it a matchmaking issue, but it never would have been a problem had they not nerfed DPS sorcs.

 

If you attack a healer 1v1, he has to be able to survive easily. Or else no-one would play healer. If you keep him busy so he cannot heal the group, you've done your part. If you 2v1 a healer he should be sweating, need to blow through his cooldowns and perhaps die, that still is the case. But if you 2v1 a healer, but there is a friendly healer nearby to him, thats not a 2v1, thats a 2v2 against healers who should easily stay alive, which is what we have. People who think healers need to be nerfed are thinking 1 dimensionally and not seeing the whole picture.

 

The facts are, heal sorcs are the same as they were in 4.0, why didn't we have 2+ in each war back then? Ask your self that. Because the DPS sorc was viable and so people were not forced to play the un-fun healer spec. So even though the healers are more effective now, its not because they need a nerf, its because mercs added their own survivability and there are more healers in every war now. Fix the real problem, if we nerf the heals it will not fix anything and only make things worse for everyone.

[Stellarcrusade]

Mobile heal costs were reduced, and healing done was increased. This is sort of a big one for PvP. There used to be a link between being stationary and efficiency and output. Breaking the link to output, was on the whole a good idea. A kiting class needs to work on the run. Breaking the link to efficiency went too far. Not needing to stop for a moment to put out a big heal is important in PvE and PvP. However, there's really no reason why long term efficiency shouldn't motivate standing still and casting a few big interruptible heals. Basically the two weaknesses of classic style sage healing: Stand still for efficiency, and stand still for max HPS, both got eliminated.

 

Your point is valid, however the issue once again isn't the healing class, its the other classes. Every class has like 3 stuns, 2 bumps, a pull, and 2 interrupts (mild exaggeration?). Pvp on swtor is more like being a pinball than actually controlling your character. For that reason all classes had to move away from long-casts in favor of instant-casts. On an ideal MMO, 1 class would be able to stun, 1 could bump, 1 could pull, and maybe a couple could interrupt. This way each class would have a better defined role and the class would feel special. That's not the world we live in.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Stellarcrusade

[tyrningada]

Too bad you cannot read. My post states the reasons why it would be stupid to nerf the sorc healing, may want to re-read it. Furthermore, if sorc heals are nerfed, 1/4 of the player base leaves, and wars are 100% mercs. Hope that is what you want. The command system makes it not worth switching specs, so even if they give a little more dps to the sorc dps spec, its dead. All classes on swtor are easy to play, its not meant to be complicated here. Most every mmo has 1 class thats meant to be ONLY heals, thats Sorc. Merc heals are just fine, and can also kill someone, sorcs cannot. No matter what you want to do with heals, there will be one class that does the same as sorcs do now. And all healing classes have to be able to live easily in a 1v1. Perfect balance a healer 1v1 vs a DPS would result in healer being able to kick out some dps also and win easily. It should take 2 dps to put pressure or kill a healer. That's the way it has to be, by design, think about it.

 

Ok, but to summarize what you want is:

1.) Make 1/4 of the playerbase quit the game.

2.) Instead of 70% mercs in wars, lets move it to 100%.

3.) No more new players, if a class is easy to play eliminate it.

 

Are you working for a competing MMO by chance? Because it sounds like you want this one to die.

 

Too bad you don't know that corruption sorcerer is not the only class that is being adjusted for the next patch. But let me first explain something that is obvious for most of the pvp community. There are currently 3 extremely OP classes/specs in game:

- Sorc healer

- Merc dps both specs

- Engineering sniper

 

1. Devs plan to adjust all of the stated above in 5.3 patch.

2. There will be no 100% merc wars as you stated because mercs dps will be nerfed so FoTM players (like you) will be forced to reroll this class.

3. I don't want this game to die. What i want is to receive balanced PvP as much as it is possible.

 

You claim that 1/4 of players will leave because of sorc heal nerf ? I didn't know there are so many of them in warzones. But now you see for yourself. If 1/4 of players are sorc healers something is really wrong with this spec since game has 8 classes and that gives 24 different disciplines.

 

I know many players that left the game because of unkillable sorcs heals. Hope now people will stop leaving and maybe even start returning. They dont have to nerf corruption/seer to oblivion. Just nerf it to the level of scoundrel and merc heals. Then finally people would start to die in warzones.

 

Sorc dps is now bad i do agree. Madness will be buffed in 5.3. And as for lighting Keith said they will look into it.

[ivanhedgehog]

Too bad you don't know that corruption sorcerer is not the only class that is being adjusted for the next patch. But let me first explain something that is obvious for most of the pvp community. There are currently 3 extremely OP classes/specs in game:

- Sorc healer

- Merc dps both specs

- Engineering sniper

 

1. Devs plan to adjust all of the stated above in 5.3 patch.

2. There will be no 100% merc wars as you stated because mercs dps will be nerfed so FoTM players (like you) will be forced to reroll this class.

3. I don't want this game to die. What i want is to receive balanced PvP as much as it is possible.

 

You claim that 1/4 of players will leave because of sorc heal nerf ? I didn't know there are so many of them in warzones. But now you see for yourself. If 1/4 of players are sorc healers something is really wrong with this spec since game has 8 classes and that gives 24 different disciplines.

 

I know many players that left the game because of unkillable sorcs heals. Hope now people will stop leaving and maybe even start returning. They dont have to nerf corruption/seer to oblivion. Just nerf it to the level of scoundrel and merc heals. Then finally people would start to die in warzones.

 

Sorc dps is now bad i do agree. Madness will be buffed in 5.3. And as for lighting Keith said they will look into it.

 

if they nerf sorc heals so that bad pvpers can beat them, people will leave the game. count on it. If they overnerf any spec at this point, people will leave the game. Because they made 5.0 so alt unfriendly, players have all their eggs in one basket. When that basket gets stomped on, they have to start all over with another class or go somewhere else. As it is, sorc dps has been horrible for so long, there arent all that many leveling sorc dps. so you wont see many even after a buff. Bioware needs to actually balance, instead of hammer nerfing and hoping for the best. We will see if they can do that or if they will just give bad pvpers what they want.

If you are one of the people complaining that you cant kill a sorc healer, you are just bad. Chances are, he is guarded, being healed by another player or you just dont know how to play your class.

Edited June 13, 2017 by ivanhedgehog

[Stellarcrusade]

Too bad you don't know that corruption sorcerer is not the only class that is being adjusted for the next patch. But let me first explain something that is obvious for most of the pvp community. There are currently 3 extremely OP classes/specs in game:

- Sorc healer

- Merc dps both specs

- Engineering sniper

 

1. Devs plan to adjust all of the stated above in 5.3 patch.

2. There will be no 100% merc wars as you stated because mercs dps will be nerfed so FoTM players (like you) will be forced to reroll this class.

3. I don't want this game to die. What i want is to receive balanced PvP as much as it is possible.

 

I know many players that left the game because of unkillable sorcs heals. Hope now people will stop leaving and maybe even start returning. They dont have to nerf corruption/seer to oblivion. Just nerf it to the level of scoundrel and merc heals. Then finally people would start to die in warzones.

 

Sorc dps is now bad i do agree. Madness will be buffed in 5.3. And as for lighting Keith said they will look into it.

 

You are wrong again. Sorc healer is the same as in 4.0, which was best raw healer, but easy to beat. You do not know how to play if you cannot handle a sorc healer. If they returned Merc and Sniper to 4.0 nerf, you'd see that no change is needed to Sorc healer. Why? Because 4.0 proved it.

 

Here is the problem, early 5.0 came out with enormous nerf to dps sorcs, so they were all forced to switch to heal. That increased the number of healers out there. Then super-survivable mercs filled the warzones which made healers job easier. Why? Because mercs can survive much better, less healing needed, get it?

 

So whats the situation now? Well, because of the broken CXP system all the sorcs are have the high tier set bonuses for healing. No-one is going to change specs, its a waste of time/effort. So lets look at scenarios and you'll see human nature will drive what people do if they nerf healing and do this to the other specs:

1.) They buff DPS sorcs from absolute bottom of the pack to midway up.

- Sorcs have a choice, leave the game or work countless hours tirelessly to re-set-bonus up a spec change only to be mid range dps, when sorcs are super easy to kill (much unlike mercs). The choice is obvious: Forced to quit the game.

2.) They buff DPS sorcs from absolute bottom of the pack to rival Merc/Sniper.

- Sorcs choice is the same as with #1, but when done they'd still be not as good as a merc/sniper because of lack of survivability, so still not worth the effort. The choice for most: forced to quit the game.

3.) They buff DPS sorcs to be UBER STRONG, way more DPS than a merc/sniper is now.

- Now we have a real choice, it may actually be worth it to re-spec time waste asside, however this would be worse for PvP balance than the situation is now.

 

If they leave healing sorcs as they are now (about 4.0 level), and scale back the survivability of Mercs we would start to see less mercs in the wars. It is easy to tell 70% mercs in wars shows you what needs a change. And just so you know, my main on pub side is a merc. If they buff the DPS sorcs you will start to see the sorc concentration move from 99% healer back to a better distribution.

 

You need to learn how to play PvP if you are unable to handle sorc healers at the current level. When I play my pub main I handle healers easily, when I play my imp main (sorc healer) I get beat down by skilled teams easily also. You need to notice if the healer is guarded, or if there are 2 healers in that same spot. Its not my job to train you how to do basic newbie level PvP concepts so lets not divert the thread topic.

 

Anyone who thinks the problem is the healing doesn't understand what is happening in PvP. Try dualing a Sorc healer, will he kill you? The answer is no. Try dualing a merc healer, now he has a chance. The healers role in an 8v8 is clear, learn it and you'll see they are not the issue. Nerf them and watch all wars be 8 mercs versus 8 mercs, then we'll see you back on the forums once again asking for the wrong nerfs.