My perspective on pvp

[truevalon]

Been around and pvping since the release of the game. Generally I've not had much to say here, but I figured it was about time to add my thoughts on the current state of pvp. What really set this off was a game I had today where I was guarding our sorc healer. She had four other people, a powertech, two mercs and a marauder firing off all they had at her for around five minutes while fighting over a point. Not at a single point did her health dip below 70%.

 

Another game both teams had 3 healers. After fighting over the mid turret for 15 minutes on Novare Coast with neither side being able to score a single kill I think most people just gave up and a lot left on both sides.

 

So what is my point here? Pvp since 5.0 has shown the following imo:

 

1. Healing is too power/Guarded healers are too powerful

2. There is too much CC in the game.

3. There is too much AOE that interupts objective capping.

 

While I know the devs do not know of the exsistance of this forum I figured I'd just add some ideas.

1. Stronger healing debuffs.

 

At the moment tanks can add a 20% healing debuff. Boost these debuffs to 50% and increase their duration to 12 seconds.

 

2. Nerf guard

 

Might be a controvertial statement from someone that mains tanks. What I would suggest is a reduction of guard to 15% plus the defense value of the guarding player. This would decrease the value of the skanktank somewhat, and increase the value of the defensive tank, not allowing tanks the best of both worlds.

 

3. Only direct damage interupts objective channeling

 

A while back it was changed so dots would no longer interupt channeling of objectives. Right now there is just such a massive amount of aoe spam from almost all classes that it just makes it stupid. Change it so that only direct damage attack will interupt the channeling. This will end the brainless aoe spam and actually reward players with a certain situational awareness.

[Foambreaker]

Stopped at: There is too much AOE that interrupts objective capping.

 

Just lol.

[Smilinghawk]

I agree on the healing debuffs being too weak, particularly for the two dps classes with it (costs a gcd and no aoe). Though I don't know if they should make the debuff last longer or give a shorter duration but way harsher healing debuff for the dps trauma. Also make applying heals debuff give medals for preventing x amount of healing.

 

A nice fix would be to rearrange sorc hls numbers, by reducing hls on roaming mend and increasing numbers on puddle and innervate, so that whatever pve hls balance exists isn't affected too much.

 

Imo roaming mend is the biggest problem with hls, it hls for huge amounts with instant cast and you can't counterplay it unless you are psychic and pull the target out of reach at just the right moment. Also it's even worse when there's just sorc hls and tank, because it can bounce twice on the same target.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Smilinghawk

[VixenRawR]

I've been saying this for years. Healing debuffs should be more than 20%, 50% sounds a lot more reasonable. Every class should have the ability to debuff heals. It shouldn't be attached to heatseeker, raging burst, or any main rotation attack, but a side attack like shatter shot or something you'd only use to reduce healing. Granted 50% or higher might be to much, so probably go with a cooldown on those abilities as well so they cant spam it to both the healer and the person being healed so easily.

 

Guard nerf. I agree completely. First off, tanks should have the superior guard. I think dps should have to cast guard with a 2-3 second cast time, and it should only be 25% dmg reduction on the person who has guard from dps. This will make it not as good, and also make guard swap a lot harder to use...lowering the potential of skank tanks to apply guard before battle...or taking the time to apply it during a fight...its ease and simplicity of guard and just "hang around" is to much. I also think tanks should have a 1 second cast, just enough so if they try to quickly swap to a teammate that a good enemy team could try to stop them. Just endless battles of heals and guard swap is a joke.

 

Aoe on node is a bad idea though. Everyone has aoe, but if 8 people spam cap a node...how do you expect it to be stopped? Everyone coordinates and attacks a separate target? Not like, more thank likely two or three will make it through and cap the node. Especially in a warzone like novare coast will it takes less time to steal a bar on the node...people could keep spamming it and a few would continue to get through and eventually cap.

[alexsamma]

Most people who complain about healers are the same people you see doing **** dps in a warzone or queuing solo and expecting to take out organized teams when they're grouped with people who struggle to do more dps than what a good player can accomplish with just using auto attacks (actually not exaggerating on this).

 

Healing is only an issue when teams are not balanced or one side has too many healers/tanks.

 

***I will note that the gear gap makes this worse than in the past, even with both my 248 main hand and off hand on my mara I have ~7k less hp and ~400 less bonuss damage than a friend who is almost fully 248 geared... I think people really underestimate how much of a difference gear makes when skill level is ~even.

 

CC in this game is honestly not that bad, go play WOW for a bit and you'll

 

A: Love resolve

B: never think SWTOR has too much CC.

 

There are too many slows, it would be awesome if the devs would re-balance slows so that the max. slow that could be applied is 50%, and only from non-moving channeled abilities or single target activated slows (force slow, leg slash, etc).

 

Don't care about the objective comment, the maps have never been updated to reflect the drastic changes to classes and 5.0's defense buffs further aggravates the issue; play regs for fun and accept that the devs have put little thought into ensuring that the pvp maps evolve with the game.

[VixenRawR]

 

Don't care about the objective comment, the maps have never been updated to reflect the drastic changes to classes and 5.0's defense buffs further aggravates the issue; play regs for fun and accept that the devs have put little thought into ensuring that the pvp maps evolve with the game.

 

Haha also been saying this for years. The original huttball map is almost a joke with 5.x abilities, pretty much since PTs got their super sonic overrides. People can grab the ball and be scoring before a single plasma probe has run its full course. Heck I've gotten the ball from the start and popped h/o and scored before it ran out. I mean I had a nice timed leap...but still.

[truevalon]

Haha also been saying this for years. The original huttball map is almost a joke with 5.x abilities, pretty much since PTs got their super sonic overrides. People can grab the ball and be scoring before a single plasma probe has run its full course. Heck I've gotten the ball from the start and popped h/o and scored before it ran out. I mean I had a nice timed leap...but still.

 

I think a lot of people are no longer enjoying regs even, and in addition to the class balances it is also due to so many of them becoming stalemates over a objective as both sides just shower it in a unending torrent of aoe. Another idea could be to have the spammable, instantcast aoes(Sweeping blasters, lightning storm, etc) no longer affect it while other multitarget abilities with longer cooldowns would interupt the channel

Edited May 13, 2017 by truevalon

[VixenRawR]

I think a lot of people are no longer enjoying regs even, and in addition to the class balances it is also due to so many of them becoming stalemates over a objective as both sides just shower it in a unending torrent of aoe.

 

Honestly I just spend most of my days in mids since 5.0. It's a lot more fun than dealing with people settled on their FoTM and gear gaps that 5.x brings us. It's not as fun, and the moment I want to alt swap...oh darn..no gear. JOY! =/ Its sad honestly.

[Cherryluve]

I agree guard really needs to be looked at. Even if guard is on a cooldown or reduced. I play sorc heals mainly and I wouldn't be opposed to having our healing nerfed a bit. But what it really comes down to is that the quality of players isn't there. Of course I can survive 4 dps if they are only doing 800 dps on me. Does that make me OP? No.

 

But how can they balance dps properly when 80% of the pvp population isn't that good. Some days I do feel like a God as healer but it's because no one can dps any more. There are more good healers then there are dps. I play mostly Pub on TEH and amazes me how bad some players are but I shrug it off. To be expected. I quickly lvled up an scoundrel healer and played on Shadowlands for a night and Wow....I will never take TEH for granted again. The amount of bads on Shadowlands was staggering lol. I played like 7 games and not a single dps was over 3k. I didn't die once as my scoundrel healer and I even forgot to put my utilities in. Ha!

 

Anyway, point being is, how can they balance anything when over half the people can't even play their class to their potential? Buffs based on the average player who can't break 2k even though the class is perfectly capable of doing 4k? /shrug. Right now this is what it is.

 

I had a shadow on my team trash talking the other team because it was a premade yet they never pulled over 800 dps either round. We won but I had to listen the whole time about how toxic premades are. Going against a premade doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Cherryluve

[Glocko]

If they nerf guard juggs will be basically useless unless they get a huge dmg boost

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I agree guard really needs to be looked at. Even if guard is on a cooldown or reduced. I play sorc heals mainly and I wouldn't be opposed to having our healing nerfed a bit. But what it really comes down to is that the quality of players isn't there. Of course I can survive 4 dps if they are only doing 800 dps on me. Does that make me OP? No.

 

But how can they balance dps properly when 80% of the pvp population isn't that good. Some days I do feel like a God as healer but it's because no one can dps any more. There are more good healers then there are dps. I play mostly Pub on TEH and amazes me how bad some players are but I shrug it off. To be expected. I quickly lvled up an scoundrel healer and played on Shadowlands for a night and Wow....I will never take TEH for granted again. The amount of bads on Shadowlands was staggering lol. I played like 7 games and not a single dps was over 3k. I didn't die once as my scoundrel healer and I even forgot to put my utilities in. Ha!

 

Anyway, point being is, how can they balance anything when over half the people can't even play their class to their potential? Buffs based on the average player who can't break 2k even though the class is perfectly capable of doing 4k? /shrug. Right now this is what it is.

 

I had a shadow on my team trash talking the other team because it was a premade yet they never pulled over 800 dps either round. We won but I had to listen the whole time about how toxic premades are. Going against a premade doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

 

Everyone's a Master and everyone else is a shyter, yeah, we know.

 

Playing 7 games on the Shadowlands is more than sufficient to scientifically determine the level of skill of player population.

 

Undoubtedly you do more than 4k every single match no matter what, and the fact that you didn't die once had nothing to do with the fact that you were a healer[ which is apparently your thing as you mentioned you also play a non OP Sorc healer], because as everybody knows every other healer in the game are very easy to kill [but perhaps that's just because you're so leet and everyone else sucks.].

 

What hope does any premade have against you?

 

 

I'd ask you to please teach us Plebs how to DPS and play our class, but the truth is

We're not worthy.....we're not worthy....

 

 

P.S. - That the 4 DPS with low DPS whom you were taking on solely by yourself who couldn't beat you doesn't make you OP, playing a Corruption Sorc does. - That's why you feel like a God. Could you be any more full of yourself?

Edited May 14, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Cherryluve]

Not what I was getting at. I am not saying there isn't any good players because there are. There are much better players then me and much more versatile. My point was, there are tons of subpar dps and so healers, let alone guarded healers, are gonna appear godly when in fact that isn't the case. But then they go to the forums to cry nerfs or buffs when sometimes it's just the fact they aren't playing their class to their full potential. I get demolished by good dps but problem is there isn't enough of them playing any more. There is such a huge difference between 4 good dps and 4 bad dps, obviously. Then it is usually the bad dps that come to the forums and cry for nerfs to other classes and buffs to theirs.

[Seterade]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but it feals unfair that my thermal detonater on my PT hits about 22k, and HS on merc hits me for 40k

[stoopicus]

Stopped at: There is too much AOE that interrupts objective capping.

 

Just lol.

 

He's totally right, there is. Voidstar especially - first room is basically broken at the moment if there are more than two snipers on the defending team (assuming they don't suck.)

 

It's not so bad on other maps though.

Edited May 14, 2017 by stoopicus

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Not what I was getting at. I am not saying there isn't any good players because there are. There are much better players then me and much more versatile. My point was, there are tons of subpar dps and so healers, let alone guarded healers, are gonna appear godly when in fact that isn't the case. But then they go to the forums to cry nerfs or buffs when sometimes it's just the fact they aren't playing their class to their full potential. I get demolished by good dps but problem is there isn't enough of them playing any more. There is such a huge difference between 4 good dps and 4 bad dps, obviously. Then it is usually the bad dps that come to the forums and cry for nerfs to other classes and buffs to theirs.

 

It's a fair point you make, it just seemed very condescending the way you put it the first time around is all.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but it feals unfair that my thermal detonater on my PT hits about 22k, and HS on merc hits me for 40k

 

Don't feel to bad, everyone else is in the same boat [relatively speaking, there are variable differences] compared to merc HS. When they nerfed the passive surge bonus from 30% to 15% Mercs were the only class that didn't get that nerfed and so still retain that, added to this in 5.0 when they decideded to see if people would enjoy playing immortal rDPS, and wa la, here we are.

Edited May 14, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[alexsamma]

Don't feel to bad, everyone else is in the same boat [relatively speaking, there are variable differences] compared to merc HS. When they nerfed the passive surge bonus from 30% to 15% Mercs were the only class that didn't get that nerfed and so still retain that, added to this in 5.0 when they decideded to see if people would enjoy playing immortal rDPS, and wa la, here we are.

 

Get over yourself dude, you play a mara, literally one of the most broken dps classes atm.

 

Mercs and snipers are over-buffed, but if they're on the chopping block so are maras

 

Amazing how a mara will QQ about other classes when they are literally game breaking in any organized group.

[EzioMessi]

Get over yourself dude, you play a mara, literally one of the most broken dps classes atm.

 

Mercs and snipers are over-buffed, but if they're on the chopping block so are maras

 

Amazing how a mara will QQ about other classes when they are literally game breaking in any organized group.

 

How are Maras broken?

 

If there's a healer nearby, Sent/Mara has an insane amount of burst. Every arena where there's been a healer my Sent's DPS is way ahead of anyone barring a Mando. But any half decent opponent can very, very easily shut me down to the point that I have to waste GBTF early, and then I have no other "oh ****" DCDs. Not to mention the ease with which Sents can be stunlocked outside of Saber Ward.

[Ottoattack]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but it feals unfair that my thermal detonater on my PT hits about 22k, and HS on merc hits me for 40k

 

Where are you getting these numbers from?! I have never seen a TD cross the 20K and I play AP. Strongest HS I got hit with is 28K, but I also play Carnage, AP and Dec and of which all have high armor base.

 

Most people who complain about healers are the same people you see doing **** dps in a warzone or queuing solo and expecting to take out organized teams when they're grouped with people who struggle to do more dps than what a good player can accomplish with just using auto attacks (actually not exaggerating on this).

 

This keeps getting thrown around much lately (primarily by people who play sorc healers). I can do between 4.5K - 5.5K on carnage in a trinity arena (which is substantially high for a single target burst spec), yet this amounts to nothing cuz a sorc healer of the same skill level does an 8K HPS. How the f**k is this balanced?!

 

Also, none tank specs should not be able to guard. Whoever added this from the devs team in 5.0 is an idiot.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Ottoattack

[alexsamma]

Where are you getting these numbers from?! I have never seen a TD cross the 20K and I play AP. Strongest HS I got hit with is 28K, but I also play Carnage, AP and Dec and of which all have high armor base.

 

 

 

This keeps getting thrown around much lately (primarily by people who play sorc healers). I can do between 4.5K - 5.5K on carnage in a trinity arena (which is substantially high for a single target burst spec), yet this amounts to nothing cuz a sorc healer of the same skill level does an 8K HPS. How the f**k is this balanced?!

 

Also, none tank specs should not be able to guard. Whoever added this from the devs team in 5.0 is an idiot.

 

If you're doing 5.5k and your co-dps is pulling similar sustained dps then you have the raw damage to get a kill, at that point it's a matter of controlling the healer and mitigating guard/cooldowns; this is when tactics come into play.

 

There are definitely comps that can push to acid, but that's an issue with dps having over-baked dcds, not healers/tanks.

 

Since 5.0 I've mainly played sniper/mara/sin, due to this **** show gearing system I rarely touch my alts :<

Edited May 16, 2017 by alexsamma

[QuiveringPotato]

Not what I was getting at. I am not saying there isn't any good players because there are. There are much better players then me and much more versatile. My point was, there are tons of subpar dps and so healers, let alone guarded healers, are gonna appear godly when in fact that isn't the case. But then they go to the forums to cry nerfs or buffs when sometimes it's just the fact they aren't playing their class to their full potential. I get demolished by good dps but problem is there isn't enough of them playing any more. There is such a huge difference between 4 good dps and 4 bad dps, obviously. Then it is usually the bad dps that come to the forums and cry for nerfs to other classes and buffs to theirs.

 

As someone from your server, I think it's far easier to play poorly and still be effective as a healer, than a DPS. At the end of the match, if it's not an arena, I generally don't even pay attention to my overall DPS/damage numbers (on my operative, anyway). Even so, I'm confident in my abilities and I know I'm capable of pumping out "good" damage if I focus on that (well, again maybe not on op), and yet I often find myself feeling pretty much irrelevant when facing some rando sorc healer. Op healers and mercs are generally considerably easier to deal with, but mercs are still pretty obnoxious with their current DCDs.

 

I have seen mediocre sorc healers basically ignore me (granted, 1 concealment operative attacking a healer isn't a very big threat), but it's just dumb how little effort you need to put in as a healer to survive against a DPS literally tunneling, interrupting on CD, and CCing intelligently. I can get even "good" sorc heals down to ~30% HP by myself after a little while, but then I get stunned once and they're back up to 100% again within seconds. With guard, it's even more ridiculous. A tank could basically put guard on a sorc healer, do /follow, and go AFK, and it could take ~3 good DPS to take them down, which is retarded.

Edited May 16, 2017 by QuiveringPotato

[Seterade]

Where are you getting these numbers from?! I have never seen a TD cross the 20K and I play AP. Strongest HS I got hit with is 28K, but I also play Carnage, AP and Dec and of which all have high armor base.

 

I wasn't talking about my PT getting hit for 40k, but a week ago my bolster riding alt sniper took a 40k crit a heatseeker... image watching you hp lose 1/3 of its hp from one shot.

 

as for 22k TD, in full 248 with explosive fuel and 72% base crit multipler vs a non geared bolstered pvp nub, adding the 2% set dmg bonus after mag blast, yes you can hit them for over 20k. My VG is still in bolster stats and he can hit a 127 hp guardian tank for 18k with that setting.

 

Edit: er.. mag blast? might be the punch for 2%... I'm to lazy to check.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Seterade

[QuiveringPotato]

I wasn't talking about my PT getting hit for 40k, but a week ago my bolster riding alt sniper took a 40k crit a heatseeker... image watching you hp lose 1/3 of its hp from one shot.

 

as for 22k TD, in full 248 with explosive fuel and 72% base crit multipler vs a non geared bolstered pvp nub, adding the 2% set dmg bonus after mag blast, yes you can hit them for over 20k. My VG is still in bolster stats and he can hit a 127 hp guardian tank for 18k with that setting.

 

Edit: er.. mag blast? might be the punch for 2%... I'm to lazy to check.

 

i've been killed by 36k heatseekers on my op (who generally has at least +6% damage reduction up)

[Monoth]

I agree guard really needs to be looked at. Even if guard is on a cooldown or reduced. I play sorc heals mainly and I wouldn't be opposed to having our healing nerfed a bit. But what it really comes down to is that the quality of players isn't there. Of course I can survive 4 dps if they are only doing 800 dps on me. Does that make me OP? No.

 

But how can they balance dps properly when 80% of the pvp population isn't that good. Some days I do feel like a God as healer but it's because no one can dps any more. There are more good healers then there are dps. I play mostly Pub on TEH and amazes me how bad some players are but I shrug it off. To be expected. I quickly lvled up an scoundrel healer and played on Shadowlands for a night and Wow....I will never take TEH for granted again. The amount of bads on Shadowlands was staggering lol. I played like 7 games and not a single dps was over 3k. I didn't die once as my scoundrel healer and I even forgot to put my utilities in. Ha!

 

Anyway, point being is, how can they balance anything when over half the people can't even play their class to their potential? Buffs based on the average player who can't break 2k even though the class is perfectly capable of doing 4k? /shrug. Right now this is what it is.

 

I had a shadow on my team trash talking the other team because it was a premade yet they never pulled over 800 dps either round. We won but I had to listen the whole time about how toxic premades are. Going against a premade doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

I was in a match today and I did over 3 million DPS and still didn't kill anyone because one side had 3 healers and the other side had two. Nobody was dying. I couldn't get anyone's health below 50% .... One of the healers had over 7 million in heals... you can't tell me that's not OP.

 

Anyone who defends healing is a healer and doesn't want their OP'ness to go away...... End game healing (max gear) has been a issue since the beginning of this game. Healing is more balanced in the lower level pvp matches but once healers get geared up and get all their skills they become pretty much invincible....

 

The best matches I've ever had, had no healers in them, the games are always close and people have fun, when you start throwing in guarded healers on both sides the fun goes away pretty fast......

Edited May 16, 2017 by Monoth

[VixenRawR]

I was in a match today and I did over 3 million DPS and still didn't kill anyone because one side had 3 healers and the other side had two. Nobody was dying. I couldn't get anyone's health below 50% .... One of the healers had over 7 million in heals... you can't tell me that's not OP.

 

Anyone who defends healing is a healer and doesn't want their OP'ness to go away...... End game healing (max gear) has been a issue since the beginning of this game. Healing is more balanced in the lower level pvp matches but once healers get geared up and get all their skills they become pretty much invincible....

 

The best matches I've ever had, had no healers in them, the games are always close and people have fun, when you start throwing in guarded healers on both sides the fun goes away pretty fast......

 

Wow 3 million dps, I'd be happy for 10k dps...teach me how =/

 

You meant dmg of course.

 

I agree completely with no healers. I had a novare coat yesterday with no healers..was so fun. There wasn't even class stacking either. I think there might have been two of a few classes but those weren't even snipers or mercs...it was like a second sin, and jugg. Was so much fun. I love variety and I don't even mind 1 non guarded healer.

Edited May 16, 2017 by VixenRawR