The natives are getting restless

[americanaussie]

You said most of it there yourself.

 

The state of a game's community generally reflects how the game and players are being treated by the developers. Most of us are very passionate about the game and/or Star Wars in general and want the game to succeed. We've spent a lot of money to support this game, and most of us actively tried to make suggestions towards the devs on how they can improve the game.

 

And yet, despite a very passionate community who have been more than willing to support and improve the game with both word of mouth and our wallets, we're met with: an endless stream of bugs (some of which haven't been fixed in years), constant server crashes and/or lag problems, a focus on cash shop updates and very lacklaster actual content updates, lack of communication from the dev team, bad idea after bad idea that pisses off 99% of the playerbase, fun aspects of the game that have been completely forgotten and left to die, etc. I could go on, but the longer I type, the more I want to go and cancel my sub right away.

 

With all that said, it's no wonder the community here is so toxic. If anyone feels like getting even more depressed over this game, go check out the forum and reddit pages of games like ESO, WoW, and GW2. Those devs actively try to communicate and make the game better for their players, and as a result those communities are flourishing. Yes, there will always be a certain amount of toxicity on game forums...but this game has it worse than any other game I've played, and it's because to BW/EA we're nothing but dollar signs.

 

True. So very true and insightful. I think I will go check it out. I've been meaning to check out ESO for some time now. I just wish we could get some solid communication. Instead, they avoid the difficult questions, and then some of the stuff they do say (in patch notes) turn out to be misinformation. That's beyond frustrating too. I'm still trying to hold out hope that we will get an explosion of fun, new content very soon, but the longer we go with no news, the faster that hope fades.

[AscendingSky]

Occasionally I will have moments where I just get super frustrated at the missed opportunity this game represents. Like today I was sitting in stronghold in the GSF queue and it hit me that my character owns a freaking starship, but hanging out in an apartment in Kaas City was a much better experience.

 

The Old Republic era is my favorite part of Star Wars. The 1-50 game is STILL amazing. It just sickens me that BW is basically cannibalizing their own creation's endgame here to be basically an infomercial for the CM store, stringing us along with 1999-era MMO grind.

 

So yeah, I get snarky sometimes.

 

I started the HK-51 recruitment quest on an alt last night; I hadn't done the quest chain in several years and wanted to go through it again to refresh my memory. When I played through the Theoretika section, I found myself both amazed and pleased all over again at the quality of atmosphere and design EAWare was capable of all the way back in the 1.5 content patch... and horribly depressed when I realized how poorly the two recent excuses for 'expansions' compare to that one short section of five year old content.

 

Remember those days, guys? Remember when each new companion had a whole multi-stage story attached to them? Remember when every companion had their own life and backstory and multiple conversations and cutscenes outside of quest content?

 

If HK-51 had been released in the present day, we wouldn't get access to him for free as subscribers with a content patch. Oh no no no. I bet he would be a Cartel Market exclusive instead. Just buy an item for a bunch of real life money, and poof, another assassin droid to collect and forget. This makes me terribly sad.

 

You used to be so much better at making art and fun, BioWare... what happened to you? Can you even be fixed at this point? We miss how you used to be.

Edited May 8, 2017 by AscendingSky

[americanaussie]

I started the HK-51 recruitment quest on an alt last night; I hadn't done the quest chain in several years and wanted to go through it again to refresh my memory. When I played through the Theoretika section, I found myself both amazed and pleased all over again at the quality of atmosphere and design EAWare was capable of all the way back in the 1.5 content patch... and horribly depressed when I realized how poorly the two recent excuses for 'expansions' compare to that one short section of five year old content.

 

Remember those days, guys? Remember when each new companion had a whole multi-stage story attached to them? Remember when every companion had their own life and backstory and multiple conversations and cutscenes outside of quest content?

 

If HK-51 had been released in the present day, we wouldn't get access to him for free as subscribers with a content patch. Oh no no no. I bet he would be a Cartel Market exclusive instead. Just buy an item for a bunch of real life money, and poof, another assassin droid to collect and forget. This makes me terribly sad.

 

You used to be so much better at making art and fun, BioWare... what happened to you? Can you even be fixed at this point? We miss how you used to be.

 

Ok, now I'm sad. That's why I fell in love with SWTOR. That's why I preferred it over WoW.

[stoopicus]

Yeah, the XP event encouraged me to level alts and it really drove home what a stark difference there is between then and now. This game is *still amazing* up through Ziost. Oh how far it's fallen.

[americanaussie]

Well, I just checked out the new trailer for Morrowind online. I may have drooled. just a little. And that boss looks B**A**!!! I've been undecided on my mother's day gift but now I know exactly what I want. I actually felt excited on choosing a class and having fun with a new story! This is what I wish swtor could deliver. It's what it used to deliver.

 

I love swtor, but I want content and I have come to the conclusion that all of the veterans tried to warn me about...grinding eternally for gear with nothing new is not fun. I'm to the place where I don't even count Iokath as being "enough" for new content. Yes, mark it in the record books. I know exactly how those who complained there was no new content felt. It'd have been fine if there was more coming out this month or next, but what we were given was so bloody short, and the longer they delay that roadmap talk, the more I think it'll be another 3 or so months before we see anything else. They're rather sneaky in never really pinpointing dates. "Few weeks." Could be 3, could be 12. No one knows. That just puts me in a bad mood. My downtime is supposed to be fun, not soul sucking. Grinding cxp is soul sucking.

 

This isn't a goodbye (so I still need my stuffs which mainly consists of not much ) , I love SWTOR, but this is no longer fun. I need a vacation.

[btmart]

So what has you grumpy? Many have been snapping at each other so what's going on?

Ummm... never had an issue with Windows 10 and SWTOR, so not sure what is up with those issues. That said, my issues:

 

• Mainly lack of repeatable endgame content: specifically new fully fleshed out operations, but I am sure the PvP'ers would appreciate some love with more Warzones. This should be more the focus on 6.0 at a minimum.
  
• The last few ops that were released were two versions: SM and NiM, and no real HM version released. There is no mid tier option for those operations. Not a big deal but thought I'd mention it. Also make all the mechanics viable for all modes so at least they exist in easier versions so folks can get used to them earlier on.
  
• Nightmare Ops boss loot is absolutely ridiculous right now. Have all bosses drop tier 4 tokens, like they fixed it with SM and HM bosses in 5.2. This random drop nonsense (except last boss) is just not acceptable.
  

Edited May 8, 2017 by btmart

[AscendingSky]

Well, I just checked out the new trailer for Morrowind online. I may have drooled. just a little. And that boss looks B**A**!!! I've been undecided on my mother's day gift but now I know exactly what I want. I actually felt excited on choosing a class and having fun with a new story! This is what I wish swtor could deliver. It's what it used to deliver.

 

I love swtor, but I want content and I have come to the conclusion that all of the veterans tried to warn me about...grinding eternally for gear with nothing new is not fun. I'm to the place where I don't even count Iokath as being "enough" for new content. Yes, mark it in the record books. I know exactly how those who complained there was no new content felt. It'd have been fine if there was more coming out this month or next, but what we were given was so bloody short, and the longer they delay that roadmap talk, the more I think it'll be another 3 or so months before we see anything else. They're rather sneaky in never really pinpointing dates. "Few weeks." Could be 3, could be 12. No one knows. That just puts me in a bad mood. My downtime is supposed to be fun, not soul sucking. Grinding cxp is soul sucking.

 

This isn't a goodbye (so I still need my stuffs which mainly consists of not much ) , I love SWTOR, but this is no longer fun. I need a vacation.

 

Coincidentally enough, last night my roommate got ESO, and I spent a bit of time today watching him play it. I think I'm going to give it a shot as well. I tried FFXIV a while back to tide me over during the content drought, but even though I found the game mechanics and class/job system excellent and the graphics lovely, and they put out a ton of new content regularly, I never felt a full sense of immersion in the world. It just never 'clicked' with me. But the Elder Scrolls series is one of my favorite RPG series of all time so... maybe this will turn out better.

 

I'm with you. I'm not quitting, but I definitely need a vacation from my disappointment and frustration with this game.

Edited May 8, 2017 by AscendingSky

[stoopicus]

Ooh Morrowind expansion? Hmm.

[DarthSpuds]

With all that said, it's no wonder the community here is so toxic. If anyone feels like getting even more depressed over this game, go check out the forum and reddit pages of games like ESO, WoW, and GW2. Those devs actively try to communicate and make the game better for their players, and as a result those communities are flourishing. Yes, there will always be a certain amount of toxicity on game forums...but this game has it worse than any other game I've played, and it's because to BW/EA we're nothing but dollar signs.

 

Just going to stop you there.

 

I'm on the PTS and the closed Morrowind Beta for ESO. The Devs have gone out of there way to not only totally ignore the Player's feedback (especially on the issue of Sustain), they have also ridiculed well argued and researched feedback, and belittled players who have very justifiably challenged the game's current direction. Datamining has shown that Morrowind has more Crown Crate items than any previous content, meaning the a LOT of resources went into monetising Morrowind rather than to optimising Morrowind.

 

In fact what is happening not only with the game's development cycle, but with the comapny's attitude to player feedback (feedback they requested when they sent out the closed Beta invites) is so bad, so toxic and so damaging to the game that players who went to ESO from SWTOR are already drawing comparisons to Ben Irvings "we like RNG so lump it" livestream moment.

 

All The Best

[DarthSpuds]

Well, I just checked out the new trailer for Morrowind online. I may have drooled. just a little. And that boss looks B**A**!!! I've been undecided on my mother's day gift but now I know exactly what I want. I actually felt excited on choosing a class and having fun with a new story! This is what I wish swtor could deliver. It's what it used to deliver.

 

Might I suggest you wait until after Morrowind has gone live, and the current PTS changes have filtered through to live before parting with any cash at all.

 

What is happening to ESO class balance and diversity is frankly alarming. Nothing that is currently viable in Live will be viable when Morrowind launches, in fact it is being likened to SWG's NGE.

 

Based on the impact of the 1st two iterations of the PTS my ESO guild went from just over 200 active players to less than 20, in just two weeks. I know of whole end-game guilds that have closed shop and moved on to other games; and I know of dozens of players who have started support tickets to get a full refund on their Morrowind pre-order.

 

Oh, and the RNG gear-grind in ESO, especially at end-game, makes Command Crates look like a picnic. Just search the ESO forums for "vMA RNG".

 

All The Best

Edited May 8, 2017 by DarthSpuds

[Storm-Cutter]

IMHO:

• Making the levelling process a completely unchallenging speedrun was a mistake.
  
• Making a one-story-fits-all was a mistake
  
• Little or no development on Operations was a mistake.
  
• Recycling old contend dressed up as something new and exciting was a mistake.
  
• Neglecting PvP was a mistake.
  
• Poor rewards for in-game activities was a mistake.
  
• Abandoning GSF and not putting any new questlines or events was a mistake.
  
• Spending vast amounts of money on cinematics, but not much actual gameplay was a serious misuse of their budget.
  
• Going to RNG gearing and making it so Alt unfriendly was a complete <expletive deleted> ****-up of the first order.
  

– And spending months tinkering with it was such a waste of resources.

 

Being all aloof and arrogant and dismissive and ignoring the player-base was unforgivable.

 

When you stir all that into the mix, and simmer for months with their ‘we know best’ attitude and you just end up with bored and frustrated players lashing out.

 

Maybe they should look across town to Rooster Teeth. – A medium production company that their fans can’t get enough of. – And they pump out so much content each week, you can hardly fit it all in. – Their community manager is so all over their fans, she’s worshipped like a goddess. – It makes BW look like a bunch of 13-year-olds who happened to stumble across the SW licence one day.

 

TLDR; The studio brought it upon themselves.

[DreadtechSavant]

Customers have the right to give feedback asking for changes to the game you don't like. You also have the right to give feedback on those requests saying you personally don't want those changes. That doesn't give you leave to personally attack and harass people suggesting/requesting changes you don't like, however, since that's against the forum rules. It doesn't matter the reason you use to justify being toxic... you're still being toxic and should face consequences accordingly.

 

No they don't. They have the right to ask for changes to there account only. Not other paying customers. When you personally start paying for my account you can asked for whatever changes you like. Further more don't give me forum rules rap when you brake them yourself.

[AscendingSky]

No they don't. They have the right to ask for changes to there account only. Not other paying customers. When you personally start paying for my account you can asked for whatever changes you like. Further more don't give me forum rules rap when you brake them yourself.

 

People have the right to ask for any changes to the game they please. No one needs your personal approval to make requests for changes. That includes requests for server merges. Of course, just because they want something doesn't mean they're going to get said something. Same as with anything you want. That's how the adult world works!

 

Just because you don't like someone else's opinions doesn't give you the right to be toxic and nasty towards them, which is what you claimed in your previous posts. Be mature about this.

Edited May 8, 2017 by AscendingSky

[trabble]

IMHO:

• Making the levelling process a completely unchallenging speedrun was a mistake.
  
• Making a one-story-fits-all was a mistake
  
• Little or no development on Operations was a mistake.
  
• Recycling old contend dressed up as something new and exciting was a mistake.
  
• Neglecting PvP was a mistake.
  
• Poor rewards for in-game activities was a mistake.
  
• Abandoning GSF and not putting any new questlines or events was a mistake.
  
• Spending vast amounts of money on cinematics, but not much actual gameplay was a serious misuse of their budget.
  
• Going to RNG gearing and making it so Alt unfriendly was a complete <expletive deleted> ****-up of the first order.
  

– And spending months tinkering with it was such a waste of resources.

Being all aloof and arrogant and dismissive and ignoring the player-base was unforgivable.

 

I want to add:

 

- adding myriads of companions that don't differ in any way was a mistake

- don't care about class balance is a mistake

[DenariusJay]

If you play any game for this long, your bound to be annoyed eventually. It's like going to the gym for 5 years and being pissy that your still using the same dumbbells and tread machines.

 

Sometimes you have to step back and imagine playing this game as it is now completely new - there is endless things to do and to do; but long time players don't see it that way since we've done everything one hundred times over. This is what BW is sort of banking on, they drop crumbs for old timers (like 1 op boss) but basically promote the game to get new players to come in and experience the stories (even redoing the the intros of the class stories, why would they do this... not for long time players I'm sure)

 

Vet's are not a priority. Not saying its right, but it's the EAware way. I came to accept that and since then haven't really cared much about whether we get new content or what speed it comes at, I have enough fun invested into my characters to just run dallies and some pvp then log out. Get "the fix" is all we need, as MMO addicts.

 

Also, swapping MMO's in hopes that the next one will be better is an illusion - your chasing the high only to find that the new game will have its own issues and setbacks. This is why MMO gamers get restless because they inherently keep holding out hope that they will find that "perfect" mmo that will satisfy all there wishes and dreams, but it doesn't exist. When I played SWG, it was WoW, then Age of Conan, then Rift, guild wars 2, SWTOR, wildstar, FFIX, etc then w/e came next, gamers and guilds hopping to game after game, saying how great it was only to be pissed and move onto the next game after a few months. The chase is alluring and I admit I was on it for many years, but eventually I came to realize the perfect MMO doesn't exist. Enjoy what you have, even if it isn't ideal.

Edited May 8, 2017 by DenariusJay

[fabsus]

swtor reminds me a bit to alfa romeo.

 

that brand is the master of unused opportunities.

they first gave us the variable timing in stock cars,

but didn't used that opportunity. full of failures and

cost expensive services.

who is famous for variable timing engines? honda!

 

they also installed a turbocharger in a stock gas engine,

for the first time. but again they didn't used that

opportunity and later they decided to go away from that,

just to notices, that they need them to fufill the regulations.

 

and with swtor it is the same. we have a wonderfull game,

with so many possibilities, but bioware doesn't uses their

opportunities and are still ignoring the community.

this makes me sad...

 

 

 

... so sad, that my sub expires in some days.

 

i think the most rude words come from them,

who didn't lost the hope for a change, but try

this last way, to get some hearing from the devs.

 

 

i don't wanna blame anybody. maybe they are

working at their capacity and i really think, that

they have enough great ideas and the skill to do

so. but at the end, there is someone, who has to

pay for it and if this one says no, it is a no.

for me they reached the point, when i say no.

i would be okay with the thing, to get less than in

other games, but made with love. i don't see that.

 

 

there are too many open questions, but all i could hear

are delaying tactics.

[americanaussie]

Might I suggest you wait until after Morrowind has gone live, and the current PTS changes have filtered through to live before parting with any cash at all.

 

What is happening to ESO class balance and diversity is frankly alarming. Nothing that is currently viable in Live will be viable when Morrowind launches, in fact it is being likened to SWG's NGE.

 

Based on the impact of the 1st two iterations of the PTS my ESO guild went from just over 200 active players to less than 20, in just two weeks. I know of whole end-game guilds that have closed shop and moved on to other games; and I know of dozens of players who have started support tickets to get a full refund on their Morrowind pre-order.

 

Oh, and the RNG gear-grind in ESO, especially at end-game, makes Command Crates look like a picnic. Just search the ESO forums for "vMA RNG".

 

All The Best

 

Thanks for the info! I've a RL friend playing ESO so I'm going to wait until they have played it and share their thoughts and I'll read reviews after the release. In the meantime I'll be hopping on steam to see if I find anything interesting on there. I also realised I have some dlc's for my Skyrim so I'll hook up the ol xbox360 and check into those...or replay Oblivion. I also have u uncharted to finish on the ps4 if I can win the fight for the tv.

[WelbyWars]

I played at launch and stopped around level 30. I just now came back and loving everything. I forgot how fun the class stories are. I am peeved about the space combat being so limited, but it is not an issue now that i hit 50 and subbed anyways.

 

Point is, it's all new to me. This is what BW is wanting.

I feel your pain though. I am coming from another game where the company has given up on long time players and end game. And focused on new player experience and optimising cash shop 'pet/companion/teamUp' impulse buys. It sucks. The mmo scene is where we all knew it would be.

 

But what can I do? Slim pick'ins for sci-fi mmos.

 

:/

[Soljin]

I played at launch and stopped around level 30. I just now came back and loving everything. I forgot how fun the class stories are. I am peeved about the space combat being so limited, but it is not an issue now that i hit 50 and subbed anyways.

 

Point is, it's all new to me. This is what BW is wanting.

I feel your pain though. I am coming from another game where the company has given up on long time players and end game. And focused on new player experience and optimising cash shop 'pet/companion/teamUp' impulse buys. It sucks. The mmo scene is where we all knew it would be.

 

But what can I do? Slim pick'ins for sci-fi mmos.

 

:/

 

It's kind of sad...My guess is they think they are taking a hit right now but that they are paving the way for future MMO's to be more "profitable"... What they are really doing is driving a dedicated player base away from MMO's completely.

 

If they would have focused on Improving this game and of course refining current systems rather than abandoning them... I would be happy and pay my sub and play until they wanted to close the game down.

 

Concerning Monetization, just take it easy! If you dropped some really cool and unique cosmetics, companions, mounts on the CM for direct purchase without diverting all of the development resources to the market rather then the game... You got it! I would have kept buying items of the CM in the range of an additional $50 to $100 dollars a month.

 

On the flip side...the result of how they have actually handled the game... I stopped purchasing off the CM many months ago and have dropped my sub 2 months out of the last three and it will drop again this week.

 

Hope that was the plan They are not doing anything to attract new players and Veteran players are starting to wear thin with some exceptions (like always)...So...Yeah.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Soljin

[TUXs]

I think the forum White Knights and anti-server merge crowds are the most toxic posters here.

Beyond any doubt they are. Unlike everyone else, they can't be reasoned with and they are only interested in stirring the pot.

[AscendingSky]

Beyond any doubt they are. Unlike everyone else, they can't be reasoned with and they are only interested in stirring the pot.

 

Kriffing signed. Not saying the single-minded white knights are the only instigators on this forum, that wouldn't be fair. But they're definitely the most vehement and the most vicious about their attacks.

Edited May 8, 2017 by AscendingSky

[stoopicus]

Kriffing signed. Not saying the single-minded white knights are the only instigators on this forum, that wouldn't be fair. But they're definitely the most vehement and the most vicious about their attacks.

 

I am finding I have less and less patience for the Stockholm Syndrome crowd and have started responding in kind, if they start out nasty.

Edited May 8, 2017 by stoopicus

[WelbyWars]

It's kind of sad...My guess is they think they are taking a hit right now but that they are paving the way for future MMO's to be more "profitable"... What they are really doing is driving a dedicated player base away from MMO's completely.

 

If they would have focused on Improving this game and of course refining current systems rather than abandoning them... I would be happy and pay my sub and play until they wanted to close the game down.

 

Hope that was the plan They are not doing anything to attract new players and Veteran players are starting to wear thin with some exceptions (like always)...So...Yeah.

 

Ya,..i have no illusions about long term anything. I am here because it's "new" to me. Once i cap out and feel the grind and gimmicks,..i'm out most likely and will be in your shoes.

 

It's how they plan. This is on purpose. Their model. Most mmos do this, imho. They dismiss the reality that the very nature of micro-transactions inherently model the game experience and goal. And when things go south they chalk it up to,...well,..I guess players are not into MMOs. And it makes it that much harder to get the next possibly good one made without cow-towing to meta-$$$ incentives for investors.

 

Yay,..i just resubbed yesterday and I'm already salty! Thanks!

[kodrac]

Thanks for the info! I've a RL friend playing ESO so I'm going to wait until they have played it and share their thoughts and I'll read reviews after the release. In the meantime I'll be hopping on steam to see if I find anything interesting on there. I also realised I have some dlc's for my Skyrim so I'll hook up the ol xbox360 and check into those...or replay Oblivion. I also have u uncharted to finish on the ps4 if I can win the fight for the tv.

 

Welcome to the dark side! When ESO came out I was getting tired of no new PvP maps or updates. So I quit PvP here and got ESO. I don't PvP over there that often because the rest of the game had a lot to to keep my interest, unlike here (alt #14 coming right up). I'm on it every night compared to once or twice a month here. And they are making changes that'll effect max tier character builds, but as a new player you won't have time to notice them when they go live in a month. And they're not NGE level changes. It's just the usual forum hysteria to any change. It's biggest flaw is there's no lightsabers or blasters.

[kodrac]

Kriffing signed. Not saying the single-minded white knights are the only instigators on this forum, that wouldn't be fair. But they're definitely the most vehement and the most vicious about their attacks.

 

You could probably say the same about the pro-merger crowd. They're just as unwavering in their beliefs, but why is it they're not considered white knights? They're white knights for their cause are they not? Does it have something to do with the studio "not taking their side"? Is that a dark knight? There's a couple that are quite toxic. The two that first come to mind haven't posted in ages tho thankfully., but there's still a few drinking the hater-ade.

 

The toxicity is on both sides. I missed out on the latest batch of insults but I can guess which "don't merge me bro" was the toxic one. He goes too far as their self-appointed leader. He makes good points until he tosses out the passive aggressive belittling of the other side. If y'all could just leave that out maybe everyone could have a say without fear of the bullying and name-calling that comes from both sides afterwards. Starting with the white knight term. The white knight may as well be defined as "those idiots who dare to not agree with me". You say don't throw out insults but in the same breath call people white knights. It's as as if you don't realize that it's an insult.

 

Just because someone falls on the other side of the argument does not make them a white knight. And just because you don't buy into their argument doesn't mean they're stirring the pot. Grow up and take personal responsibility for the things you type here.

 

And let's not forget we wouldn't have such a low population if the game was still appealing. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Blame BW for this mess. Whether it's the rotten story expansions or the no new raids or the poorly thought out GC grind, those decisions and changes are 100% on the studio. If anything the toxicity is misdirected.

When the studio owns up to their mistakes and does something positive, then you can have a go at each other.

Edited May 8, 2017 by kodrac