No room for Casual PVPers

[Yorioko]

I have been frustrated for years with PVp here on SWTOR.

It really took me a while to really identify what I at least feel the problem is.

Let me first introduce my PVP self. I am a very casual PVPer, more concerned with having fun, learning a trick or two then I am with how I perform in the eyes of others, my PVP is not at all competative in nature, to me it is about the fun and the experience.

 

With how the system works, we are introduced to PVP at level 10, generally wen we finish the start planet we go to a WZ for the introduction, and for players new to the game, to get a tase of the feature.

All this is great and makes a lot of sense, and a brilliant way to peak player's intrest in a game's feature.

 

However, due to what I have gathered is a serious lack in content for Ranked PVP, the more competative PVPers migrate to the Unranked PVP zones, which is only natural.

 

However, I often feel chewed out, picked on and critizised by competative PVPers, who I feel fail to recognize that the area was not ment for competative PVP, and that players regardless of their character's level can be total newbies to PVP or like me casual PVPers who lack the competative skill and mindset.

 

I have more or less stopped doing the lvl 10 introduction missions when I level a new class, again becuse I feel I have to be measuerd up to par, against players that copetes outside the arena, if you will.

Before Gear was another issue, it was expected that you were so and so geared, so and so reachearching how to and what to just do follow an introductionary feature of a game, something only those specifically interested in that spesific feater does.

Becuse I am a casual PVPer, I never spend hours researching, vatching videos and so and so to make my self an "expert" on something I may or may not enjoy in the game.

I am more of a story player, concerned wit the story and the overall content.

 

I really don't see how this can be fixed in the game, but to me the only real solution is on the competative pvp community to "loosen up" in the unranked zones where they are facing or teamed with "casuals" rather then complain about skill, gear and even team tactics.

 

It is not really a casual player's responsibility to "learn" and to get upto par with a focused player, nor is it the other way around, BUT most of the player base falls somewhere withing the casual category, with PVP skills and experience rnging form totally nothing to very good and experts, and they have equal rights on all the servers.

 

I have heard many of the arguments in most PVP discussions on most MMO forums, and it is allways a PVP vs PVE rather then the combination we all want.

All critique of PVP is seen as an attack on a personal level and is defended with outright fury at times, the same can be said about how PVP is critizised , and it is generally on a player or player base level.

 

This is what drives me away from PVP, not the PVP it self, but the feeling that there is no room for a casual PVPer.

 

To me this game has developed into either, it is either PVE or PVP and the ones wanting both draws the short straw.

 

How can this be fixed, how can it be room for a casual PVPer on SWTOR?

[NikSunrider]

PVP, by its very nature, attracts people who like conflict. Sometimes they don't get enough of a conflict, so tthey take out out the actual PVP and into verbal sparring. It has been like this in any and every game, and it will always be like this in any and every game.

 

Yes, there isn't enough incentive to play ranked and there are many things wrong with PVP in general, but the attitudes aren't really something a game can fix.

[Yorioko]

PVP, by its very nature, attracts people who like conflict. Sometimes they don't get enough of a conflict, so tthey take out out the actual PVP and into verbal sparring. It has been like this in any and every game, and it will always be like this in any and every game.

 

Yes, there isn't enough incentive to play ranked and there are many things wrong with PVP in general, but the attitudes aren't really something a game can fix.

 

I just wonder what to do with the attitudes.

 

One could be tempted to put on an attitude self, like simply have the I don't give a flying batha's toejam about the others, and do MY thing and MY thing only, either for the duration of the introductionary missions or in general.

However this is simply playing inot things, rather then really contributing to making things better.

[BigDumbViking]

The problem is that PVP is supposed to be competitive. And it is team based. So if you show up and drag the team down, don't know what you're doing, and don't contribute in a competent manner, then people are going to be upset. In the age of the internet, it really isn't that difficult to learn the basics of what you should do to be successful and competitive and not draw the ire of the people who are more competitive.

 

Also remember, that the other guys are paying for their subscription too. They might have 5 toons they are trying to get the PVP daily done on, and if they get stuck with you doinking off, it might take 6 losses to get their dailys done instead of 3 wins. That's an hour or more of their time you wasted... Try looking at things from their perspective.

 

So, if you want to have fun and not get yelled at, then try. take 10 minutes to ask someone or research your class on the internet. Watch a pvp video on youtube... You don't need to top the damage boards or healing boards to be good, you just need to have situational awareness and know your role.

[Yorioko]

The problem is that PVP is supposed to be competitive. And it is team based. So if you show up and drag the team down, don't know what you're doing, and don't contribute in a competent manner, then people are going to be upset. In the age of the internet, it really isn't that difficult to learn the basics of what you should do to be successful and competitive and not draw the ire of the people who are more competitive.

 

Also remember, that the other guys are paying for their subscription too. They might have 5 toons they are trying to get the PVP daily done on, and if they get stuck with you doinking off, it might take 6 losses to get their dailys done instead of 3 wins. That's an hour or more of their time you wasted... Try looking at things from their perspective.

 

So, if you want to have fun and not get yelled at, then try. take 10 minutes to ask someone or research your class on the internet. Watch a pvp video on youtube... You don't need to top the damage boards or healing boards to be good, you just need to have situational awareness and know your role.

 

I am indeed trying to look at this from both sides, and yes a team is only as strong as the weakest link.

However I really don't understand why pvp is competative to the level it is here, when 90% of all pvp is done in th areas meant for the "less" competitive play, hence the ranked/unranked.

 

Out of respect for those that are a lot more PVP focused then I am, I stay away from the ranked pvp, as here it actually matters ( in the end) your win/loss ratio.

 

In the unranked Zones, these ratios means nothing or much less.

 

it is not the fault of casual/inexperienced players that the competitive PVP lacks in content, and therefor it is not a right given to these players to compete in the non competitive zones at te same level and intensity as that is not what was the initial point, but rather the was to have the ranked zones ( that seriously lack in content) as the competitive play areas, the "regular" unraked zones, meant as introduction and MEANT to risk getting teamed up wit a "headless chicken" and this is HOW it was meant to be.

 

Somehow I feel that due to lack of content in ranked, those players, have somehow "taken ownership" of the unranked areas, then abandoned the ranked areas, and then make demands, and establish their "faction" as competitive PVP in an non competitive arena.

 

This is why I really have no respect at all for most of the complains and critique that casual pvpers suffer in the Zones

[Lortemand]

Hey Yorioko,

what a wall of text you dumped there hehh hehe

I have 1 or 2 thought when I read your text.

1: Take constructive criticism and use it to your benefit. Dump toxic BS people and use them on your ignore list.

2. Regs are regs. Not more not less. Try to give your best but realize: When up against a premade with sorc healers, it's often a loss. You might be better than the average premade dps player, but you know what: He gets 1-click healed to pretty much full health, so don't bother too much about it.

And never forget: it's just a game. Pixels, nothing real.

Hope you stay in game, because this game has lost too many players already

[Yorioko]

Hey Yorioko,

what a wall of text you dumped there hehh hehe

I have 1 or 2 thought when I read your text.

1: Take constructive criticism and use it to your benefit. Dump toxic BS people and use them on your ignore list.

2. Regs are regs. Not more not less. Try to give your best but realize: When up against a premade with sorc healers, it's often a loss. You might be better than the average premade dps player, but you know what: He gets 1-click healed to pretty much full health, so don't bother too much about it.

And never forget: it's just a game. Pixels, nothing real.

Hope you stay in game, because this game has lost too many players already

 

very well said, the issue I have is the in zone critique.

I think this really comes down to I see this as a game in every way, meaning I do not care about winning or loosing at all.

That being said, I do get "pissy" if I fail at something, but not so much, I just shrug it off and try again.

 

I don't care if I have 300 losses and 10 wins to get some 10win achevement or bonus, and if it takes me a year then it takes a year.

 

I see no reason for the "old" ( as I think that it is fixed somewhat with the removal of the utter stupidity of PVP spesific gear) complaining about gear.

 

Why should a casual pvper bother to fous solely on getting items and gear he may or may not use more then once or twice a moth if that, only to "please" some focused PVPer that is upset with the content of competitive PVP.

The ONLY way to get those items was to focus on PVP, but to be left alone and to "allowed" to be there it was expected to do research and have advance gear.

 

I see no reason for ANYONE to expect the level 70 character that pops into a unranked WZ to be anyting but a casual player, meaning I would not in any way expect skill to match mine in any way, nor would I expect any concept of tactics, or gear. In fact I logg into a unraked zone and expect ONLY to see casual play, when I see "good" PVP this is a bonus, but not somethung I expect.

 

This is what I fail to understand that other can not do, expect what was "meant" to be expected, and accept that sometines, even often your focused PVP will be less then you expect, becuse you expect Ranked in Unranked.

 

This however doesn't make it rigt to not give an effort, but again it is about what the others see.

 

I would say that the first kill is a cool effort, for the player, but it could be seen as killing te wrong person, some wrong tactics, and then the insults starts to fly.

 

And this sorry to say is mostly in my experience on the PVP focused player base, their "wrong" expectations of wat to expect in the unranked zone

[AlCorazon]

If you are casual and want to have fun, stick with regs! As mentioned, ranked pvp is not rewarded very well!

[jenlen]

Sometimes it is hard to be casual in regs, this I know too well!

 

On The Shadowlands, we have a Pub guild (not saying their name per forum rules). They always queue up as a 4-person team, with healer / 3 dps, or healer, 2 dps, tank. They never stray more than 30 meters from the healer. They treat unranked warzones as some kind of job, almost. Military precision and organization. They are quite deadly, UNLESS you can pull them out of range of their healer. Then, they are easy prey. They only know how to PVP as a group mob, not as individuals, for the most part.

 

Myself, I would never want to turn PVP into some kind of military well-oiled machine. Save that for Ranked perhaps? I don't see what they get out of it, and I certainly would not want to be part of it. Do they win a lot? Sure. But to me, and it sounds like to the OP, the cost is far beyond the reward. What happened to having a good time? This is not a case of "I just wanna play with my friends!", it is more "We want to win no matter what and we will do anything to achieve that even if it isn't fun for all!"

 

What challenge is it if you turn into a 4-person execution squad moving as one glob, slaughtering solo-queued people over and over again? I always have assumed it's a bunch of sociopaths who would also enjoy burning kittens and puppies alive. Same mindset, really.

[Yorioko]

If you are casual and want to have fun, stick with regs! As mentioned, ranked pvp is not rewarded very well!

 

I know, and that is the issue, since I never ever go into ranked areas, but want to do unranked, I can not for the life of me understand wy some ( most) see the unranked as Ranked...and play as if it is, make demands as if it is.

 

I would even go so far as to say that if a PVPer is in the unranked zone, and is teamed wit a headless chicken that ONLY messes up, then the focused PVPer has no right to really be upset, as THAT is exactly what the unranked zones are for.

[Yorioko]

Sometimes it is hard to be casual in regs, this I know too well!

 

On The Shadowlands, we have a Pub guild (not saying their name per forum rules). They always queue up as a 4-person team, with healer / 3 dps, or healer, 2 dps, tank. They never stray more than 30 meters from the healer. They treat unranked warzones as some kind of job, almost. Military precision and organization. They are quite deadly, UNLESS you can pull them out of range of their healer. Then, they are easy prey. They only know how to PVP as a group mob, not as individuals, for the most part.

 

Myself, I would never want to turn PVP into some kind of military well-oiled machine. Save that for Ranked perhaps? I don't see what they get out of it, and I certainly would not want to be part of it. Do they win a lot? Sure. But to me, and it sounds like to the OP, the cost is far beyond the reward. What happened to having a good time? This is not a case of "I just wanna play with my friends!", it is more "We want to win no matter what and we will do anything to achieve that even if it isn't fun for all!"

 

What challenge is it if you turn into a 4-person execution squad moving as one glob, slaughtering solo-queued people over and over again? I always have assumed it's a bunch of sociopaths who would also enjoy burning kittens and puppies alive. Same mindset, really.

 

What you describe here is what one should expect in ranked zones, and yes from time to time when "lucky" in the unranked zones, with team dynamics and tactics.

 

But I would keep this to ranked.

 

UNRANKED is NON SERIOUS PVP and let us leave it like that and make a much nicer envirnment for all

[Kirpputori]

Myself, I would never want to turn PVP into some kind of military well-oiled machine. Save that for Ranked perhaps? I don't see what they get out of it, and I certainly would not want to be part of it. Do they win a lot? Sure. But to me, and it sounds like to the OP, the cost is far beyond the reward. What happened to having a good time? This is not a case of "I just wanna play with my friends!", it is more "We want to win no matter what and we will do anything to achieve that even if it isn't fun for all!"

 

tfw wanting to win is bad thing.

Just gonna throw it out there but maybe, just maybe, they like to win? i.e. win = fun, lose = not fun

 

What challenge is it if you turn into a 4-person execution squad moving as one glob, slaughtering solo-queued people over and over again? I always have assumed it's a bunch of sociopaths who would also enjoy burning kittens and puppies alive. Same mindset, really.

 

tbf they can't know before match if enemies have premade too or not. So, sure, might be they just want ez wins over noobs. Or then, might be they don't want to be stomped by some other premade and tbh premade vs premade tends to be the best matches you can get. Also, isn't running in a premade the only way to have atleast tiny bit of "matchmaking".

 

And on top of that, premades are best to run bcos you can trust a person from the group to guard node etc. 10 times out of 10 when i leave pug to guard, it takes about 2min (and no calls) and the node is gone. Literally 10 out of 10

[Seterade]

Couple things.

 

1) a massive percentage of this games pvp community is in high school, or early college. Don't expect maturity.

 

2) As shown from skank tank/madness sorc stacking in 4.0/ sorc hlr and merc arsenal stacking in 5.0, a massive percentage of this game hates to ever die, so to compensate they stack best class/premades cause they can't do it alone.

 

and finally) Just put the idiots on ignore. Their responces to you or anyone else won't change so why torture your self?

Edited May 5, 2017 by Seterade

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

 

On The Shadowlands, we have a Pub guild (not saying their name per forum rules). They always queue up as a 4-person team, with healer / 3 dps, or healer, 2 dps, tank. They never stray more than 30 meters from the healer. They treat unranked warzones as some kind of job, almost. Military precision and organization. They are quite deadly, UNLESS you can pull them out of range of their healer. Then, they are easy prey. They only know how to PVP as a group mob, not as individuals, for the most part.

 

 

:::cough::: RBL :::cough::Ohh....excuse me.

[jenlen]

:::cough::: RBL :::cough::Ohh....excuse me.

 

I can neither confirm nor deny your guess. ::cough:: ::cough::

 

[jenlen]

tfw wanting to win is bad thing.

Just gonna throw it out there but maybe, just maybe, they like to win? i.e. win = fun, lose = not fun

 

And on top of that, premades are best to run bcos you can trust a person from the group to guard node etc. 10 times out of 10 when i leave pug to guard, it takes about 2min (and no calls) and the node is gone. Literally 10 out of 10

 

Well, firstly, if winning is all that it is about... why don't they just queue up for Flashpoints and Uprisings? I mean, they will always win those battles. For them, a bunch of solo-queued people in sub-par gear can't be any more or less difficult than NPCs, you know? They don't WANT a challenge, that much is obvious. They want to WIN WIN WIN and who cares if it causes less people to queue, or people to drop out of PvP completely. Their bloated egos are obviously much more important! I blame these people for doing as much, if not more, damage to PvP here than Bioware has.

 

Secondly, sure, you get bad people who solo queue. Happens all the time. You learn to roll with it.

[benmas]

Well, firstly, if winning is all that it is about... why don't they just queue up for Flashpoints and Uprisings?

because thats PvE which has the same amount of challenge as a hutta heroic

 

I mean, they will always win those battles. For them, a bunch of solo-queued people in sub-par gear can't be any more or less difficult than NPCs, you know? They don't WANT a challenge, that much is obvious. They want to WIN WIN WIN and who cares if it causes less people to queue, or people to drop out of PvP completely. Their bloated egos are obviously much more important! I blame these people for doing as much, if not more, damage to PvP here than Bioware has.

 

PvP players do want a challenge, why do you think they queue? ROFL stomping noobs gets very boring very fast. Also whats wrong with playing to win, trying and coordinating? having 7 people charge around breaking every cc under the sun and farming numbers is the opposite of fun.

 

 

Secondly, sure, you get bad people who solo queue. Happens all the time. You learn to roll with it.

true but players really should learn from their mistakes rather than repeating them and coming out with "i don't care" when you try give them a few tips.

[MercenaryPlayer]

Hey Yorioko,

what a wall of text you dumped there hehh hehe

I have 1 or 2 thought when I read your text.

1: Take constructive criticism and use it to your benefit. Dump toxic BS people and use them on your ignore list.

2. Regs are regs. Not more not less. Try to give your best but realize: When up against a premade with sorc healers, it's often a loss. You might be better than the average premade dps player, but you know what: He gets 1-click healed to pretty much full health, so don't bother too much about it.

And never forget: it's just a game. Pixels, nothing real.

Hope you stay in game, because this game has lost too many players already

 

Honestly hope he leaves the game. He is correct that this game has no room for casual pvpers anymore. Perhaps if this were 2012 ppl might be more lenient on him but, given the awful choices by devs and the lack of concern for one of the most popular parts of the game, they've essentially phased out new players and casuals in pvp.

 

Example: In an 8v8 reg match. If your team of 8 has at least 2 casuals who are like the OP. The match essentially becomes a 6v8 automatically throwing the match into a lopsided cuck fest.

 

His best option at this point is to avoid pvp altogether and find a new game.

 

Besides if rumors about SWTOR are true, they're going to garbage can this game and reroll it in the future.

 

No amount of practice and no amount of solo skill will ever offset the ******** of running into premades in reg que or facing a team with more than 1 healer.

 

No room for casuals is correct in this instance.

[Schoock]

They don't WANT a challenge, that much is obvious. They want to WIN WIN WIN and who cares if it causes less people to queue, or people to drop out of PvP completely. Their bloated egos are obviously much more important! I blame these people for doing as much, if not more, damage to PvP here than Bioware has.

 

You surely know why we queue premades than we do ourselves, thanks for letting us know.

 

Other than that, it's the participation trophy collectors that are killing PvP, those that are way too occupied with trying to win a 5vs1 when they're not too busy helping you by breaking any mez you place.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Schoock

[Icykill_]

I know, and that is the issue, since I never ever go into ranked areas, but want to do unranked, I can not for the life of me understand wy some ( most) see the unranked as Ranked...and play as if it is, make demands as if it is.

 

I would even go so far as to say that if a PVPer is in the unranked zone, and is teamed wit a headless chicken that ONLY messes up, then the focused PVPer has no right to really be upset, as THAT is exactly what the unranked zones are for.

 

It does suck, but the issue is more complex than that. You have to understand that objective based pvpers have no outlet for competitive objective pvp anymore. So we have to play regs to play it. Some people get frustrated that their fun is also being ruined by people who don't perform up to their lvl. While this isn't good, blame shouldn't just be put on the players. Bioware are ultimately responsible for this situation and no matter how much we ask, beg or point this out to them, they just won't give us back Ranked 8 man.

Yes, some people take regs seriously, it's their only outlet for their pvp.

[yellow_]

Myself, I would never want to turn PVP into some kind of military well-oiled machine. Save that for Ranked perhaps? I don't see what they get out of it, and I certainly would not want to be part of it. Do they win a lot? Sure. But to me, and it sounds like to the OP, the cost is far beyond the reward. What happened to having a good time? This is not a case of "I just wanna play with my friends!", it is more "We want to win no matter what and we will do anything to achieve that even if it isn't fun for all!"

spoiler alert: they're having fun

[Icykill_]

because thats PvE which has the same amount of challenge as a hutta heroic

 

PvP players do want a challenge, why do you think they queue? ROFL stomping noobs gets very boring very fast. Also whats wrong with playing to win, trying and coordinating? having 7 people charge around breaking every cc under the sun and farming numbers is the opposite of fun.

 

true but players really should learn from their mistakes rather than repeating them and coming out with "i don't care" when you try give them a few tips.

 

Exactly 😉

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

because thats PvE which has the same amount of challenge as a hutta heroic

 

Ohh yeah, NiM Operations, total face roll.

 

Go fight Styrak on NiM and see how well you do. Than post a link to the parse from it's successful completion.

 

Make sure you have 2 million credits to spare, you'll need it for repairs.

[Schoock]

Ohh yeah, NiM Operations, total face roll.

 

Go fight Styrak on NiM and see how well you do. Than post a link to the parse from it's successful completion.

 

Make sure you have 2 million credits to spare, you'll need it for repairs.

 

Because everyone has a raid group to even attempt it with.

[Icykill_]

Ohh yeah, NiM Operations, total face roll.

 

Go fight Styrak on NiM and see how well you do. Than post a link to the parse from it's successful completion.

 

Make sure you have 2 million credits to spare, you'll need it for repairs.

 

You have to admit it's scripted play and if people know where to stand and their rotations, then any challenge wears off fast.

At least with pvp it's always different.

I know back when I did the occasional OPs with a guild I was in that I found it extremely boring and easy. If the current OPs have been dumbed down like the rest of the pve content, then it maybe a face role. But without testing it I can only speculate.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Icykill_