Highest Burst DPS?

[FourTwent]

I think it's pretty clear that Watchman with the DoTs have the highest prolonged DPS for PvE Flashpoints and such.

 

But what about short term burst DPS while lvling and for PvP? Does Combat out perform Focus? Does the answer differ between a toon lvling up and one that is capped?

[Edgedy]

Focus is better, especially with singularity.

 

Combat can't even come close with it's current starvation rotation.

 

It's the same for leveling up as well, but it doesn't hurt to put 5 points in the combat and watchman trees just for the low level buffs.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Edgedy

[MBirkhofer]

I would be willing to bet focus has the highest burst in the game period.

 

leap-Force crush-zstrike, blade storm, sweep. this damage is CRAZY. also its mostly force damage, so has 100% hit rate naturally.

[-Solaris]

Focus has the highest burst, but at that point you might as well play Guardian. Guardians' burst will be 30% greater just because of a skill the Sentinel tree is lacking. There is almost no reason to play the Focus tree when Guardians have the same tree but does more damage. Edited December 28, 2011 by -Solaris

[ProfessorWalsh]

Focus is better, especially with singularity.

 

Combat can't even come close with it's current starvation rotation.

 

It's the same for leveling up as well, but it doesn't hurt to put 5 points in the combat and watchman trees just for the low level buffs.

 

...

 

Combat isn't bad per se.

 

Combat however suffers from the "You must be level 41 to use this tree." issue.

 

At level 41 you get Blade Rush... That brings it all together.

 

It all comes down to the following chain:

 

1. Precision Strike

2. Blade Rush

3. Blade Storm

 

With the right passives (like the one that grants your next focus spender after Combat Trance 10% more damage, which is triggered by an Ataru strike, which is always automatically triggered by Blade Rush... Not to mention the one that gives Blade Rush, Blade Storm, etc +30% extra Critical damage... Not to mention Immaculate which grants a 100% critical chance on blade storm while in combat trance...) this can hit for a metric butt-ton of damage.

 

Theoretically lets say Blade Storm does 1000 damage at level 50 (I don't recall the actual number but this makes math easier).

 

Precision Strike gives you 100% armor penetration, this nerfs the enemy's mitigation.

Then Blade Rush for, eh, 800 or so damage.

Ataru strike for maybe 150 damage.

Blade Storm for... Wait for it... 1880 damage.

 

Now... Granted... Enemies at level 50 commonly have 10,000 HP or so... And yes, this whole string is less than 1/3 of a target's HP but you are talking about something that leads into your other high damage attacks.

 

It is ideal? No.

 

But it HURTS A LOT when it goes off.

[-Solaris]

...

 

It is ideal? No.

 

But it HURTS A LOT when it goes off.

 

Compared to other classes, it doesn't hurt A LOT. As a Sentinel I can crit normally around 3800 against lowbies in WZ while a Guardian with the same gear can crit for around 5200 with a similar rotation, by prepping the crit with 2 skills. Both playing the same tree, Focus. If I were to play Combat, my crits would be around 3200.

 

Overall, it doesn't hurt a lot if you compare it to other classes that HURT A LOT.

Edited December 28, 2011 by -Solaris

[FourTwent]

Compared to other classes, it doesn't hurt A LOT. As a Sentinel I can crit normally around 3800 against lowbies in WZ while a Guardian with the same gear can crit for around 5200 with a similar rotation, by prepping the crit with 2 skills. Both playing the same tree, Focus. If I were to play Combat, my crits would be around 3200.

 

Overall, it doesn't hurt a lot if you compare it to other classes that HURT A LOT.

 

Soooo, instead of trolling the Sentinels sub forums to talk about how other classes or the other AC is better. . .lets try to stay on topic.

 

I read Combat is supposed to be the PvP spec. . .or at least that it's supposed to excel there. Is that due to high single target burst? Instead of say, Sweep(with Focus).

 

While it's nice to lvl up and take out packs of mobs with a sweep, I think I'd rather go single target burst. I have tried watchman, and will probably switch to it when I start grinding out end game raids. But that's not gonna benefit PvP too much is it?

[sabresandiego]

Focus has the highest burst, but at that point you might as well play Guardian. Guardians' burst will be 30% greater just because of a skill the Sentinel tree is lacking. There is almost no reason to play the Focus tree when Guardians have the same tree but does more damage.

 

Thats not entirely true. Sentinels have a 3 focus bladestorm instead of guardiand 4, and a 1 focus sweep instead of guardians 3. In addition, the cooldown on sweep is lower for sentinel. Yes that 30% damage on sweep talent which guardians have is nice, but focus sentinels are just as strong.

[Mavick]

People posting on here seem to be focusing on single hit damage which is stupid really, when you're throwing combat into the discussion. What you're not including in the discussion is the quick extremely high burst you can put out with ataru procs thrown in, usually on every other hit, that are also buffed through the tree.

 

In an ideal situation, I can take someone from full to 20% or lower within 5/6 seconds. No, it doesn't always happen of course, but these people that keep saying "yeah but x class is going to do it better" can take that elsewhere, as I'm just not seeing it.

[Toppins]

I prefer Watchman for PvP as I can stack DoT's quickly before I get CC'ed so they continue to take damage until I get back in range, then rinse and repeat.

 

Mostly I prefer Watchman in PvP because of the anti-healer role it excels at, though.

[-Solaris]

Thats not entirely true. Sentinels have a 3 focus bladestorm instead of guardiand 4, and a 1 focus sweep instead of guardians 3. In addition, the cooldown on sweep is lower for sentinel. Yes that 30% damage on sweep talent which guardians have is nice, but focus sentinels are just as strong.

 

This is false. By taking gravity, guardians also use 3 focus. A sentinel has a 9sec sweep and a guardian has a 9 sec sweep if chosen the right talents. Your whole argument is bad as you provide incorrect facts. You also say 30% is "nice." How is 3800-4200 crit compared to a 4900-5500 crit just as strong? Please think before you post.

 

Soooo, instead of trolling the Sentinels sub forums to talk about how other classes or the other AC is better. . .lets try to stay on topic.

 

The fact that you think that was troll makes you have no idea what you are talking about. It is a fact that focus has the highest burst. It is sad to see that it is higher than combat since combat is single target burst while focus is aoe burst. (I crit 3200 with precision + bladerush while I can crit 3800-4200 with a sweep from focus) It is even sadder that guardians get the same tree and can crit for for 5.5k while sentinels can't.

Edited December 29, 2011 by -Solaris

[Mavick]

I crit 3200 with precision + bladerush

 

Why are you using bladerush to compare, as it's not even combat's highest hitting attack? I'm becoming pretty convinced that everyone here toting focus as the highest burst spec really hasn't played combat very much at all. And again, this "let's judge the spec off it's one highest hitting crit" is just asinine, since you're not going to kill anyone or anything with one hit anyway, but rather a series of abilities and skill.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Why are you using bladerush to compare, as it's not even combat's highest hitting attack? I'm becoming pretty convinced that everyone here toting focus as the highest burst spec really hasn't played combat very much at all. And again, this "let's judge the spec off it's one highest hitting crit" is just asinine, since you're not going to kill anyone or anything with one hit anyway, but rather a series of abilities and skill.

 

Mavick, people use Blade Storm more than Blade Rush and the reason why is we can ensure a critical strike off of it.

[-Solaris]

Why are you using bladerush to compare, as it's not even combat's highest hitting attack? I'm becoming pretty convinced that everyone here toting focus as the highest burst spec really hasn't played combat very much at all. And again, this "let's judge the spec off it's one highest hitting crit" is just asinine, since you're not going to kill anyone or anything with one hit anyway, but rather a series of abilities and skill.

 

I meant bladestorm but my point still stands..the OP asked for highest burst dps, not sustained dps so your point is null..

[Dynellen]

It seems to me that people in this thread are arguing over the wrong thing, I thought we were meant to discuss burst dps but what you're actually talking about is hardest hitting (critting) single ability?

 

Combat is nowhere near having the hardest hitting single ability due to it's very nature, however it has a very high burst. Watchman's top ability hits like a truck but costs a whopping 5 focus so of course it's going to hit harder than anything Combat has to offer. The point with combat spec is that with Zen you'll be spamming 1 focus costing blade rush and 2 focus costing, guaranteed crit blade storms with 100% armor penetration while having 50% chance for each attack to proc ataru hit with all the related benefits (more focus, 10% extra damage).

 

So yes Combat will never win the 'my crit is bigger than your crit' race because by design the spec is about spamming low cost abilities constantly instead of having a single hard hitting ability.

[-Solaris]

Actually watchman's top ability does less damage than force sweep in focus if both were to crit. Sweep has 2x damage + 30% damage after the crit. Also blade rush is 2 focus cost not 1. You also cannot spam blade rush, you'll only be able to pull off 2 of them during 1 cd of Zen.

 

I am in no way supporting Focus as I actually use Combat. Focus is pretty bad unless you are a Guardian.

[Dynellen]

Actually watchman's top ability does less damage than force sweep in focus if both were to crit. Sweep has 2x damage + 30% damage after the crit. Also blade rush is 2 focus cost not 1. You also cannot spam blade rush, you'll only be able to pull off 2 of them during 1 cd of Zen.

 

I am in no way supporting Focus as I actually use Combat. Focus is pretty bad unless you are a Guardian.

 

With Zen up and Focused Slash talent (tier 1 Watchman) Blade rush needs 2 focus to activate but then refunds 1 effectively making it 1 cost, also it's perfectly spammable since it has no cd.

[MBirkhofer]

The fact that you think that was troll makes you have no idea what you are talking about. It is a fact that focus has the highest burst. It is sad to see that it is higher than combat since combat is single target burst while focus is aoe burst. (I crit 3200 with precision + bladerush while I can crit 3800-4200 with a sweep from focus) It is even sadder that guardians get the same tree and can crit for for 5.5k while sentinels can't.

 

 

You know.. I was going to make a write up about how you were correct that due to the 30% talent, gaurdians do thus have more burst. But sents have other tools. But as I really get down and start comparing talents, and core moves. like sundering strike, guard etc..

.... ffs. I want to reroll a guardian.

Zen. Zen is like the ONLY thing sentinels have over guardians. Core moves like sabre throw, push, guards, sundering strike, etc are all way in the guardians favor.

Granted focus zen is really strong.

 

Dual wield? is a joke. Force moves use offhand+mh +force power evenly, and shields have just as much +force power as weapons. Especially true as focus, where sweep, stasis, bladestorm, and crush don't even use offhand damage at all. Only strike, slash, Zleap and MS do. yeah +50 damage on a move you only use once every 25s?

Edited December 29, 2011 by MBirkhofer

[Mavick]

I meant bladestorm but my point still stands..the OP asked for highest burst dps, not sustained dps so your point is null..

 

 

Burst is not limited to your single hardest hitting ability, so no, my point is not null.

[Mavick]

Mavick, people use Blade Storm more than Blade Rush and the reason why is we can ensure a critical strike off of it.

 

Lol since when? Blade Rush has no cd, and puts up a 6 second buff that needs to always be up for combat. Granted Blade Storm should certainly be used on CD, but I'm using Blade Rush far more often due to it's lack of CD and garaunteed Ataru proc.

[EasymodeX]

Theoretically lets say Blade Storm does 1000 damage at level 50 (I don't recall the actual number but this makes math easier).

 

Precision Strike gives you 100% armor penetration, this nerfs the enemy's mitigation.

Then Blade Rush for, eh, 800 or so damage.

Ataru strike for maybe 150 damage.

Blade Storm for... Wait for it... 1880 damage.

 

Real numbers with 136 rating (PvP) weapons:

 

Precision strike hits for 900-1400 depending on crits.

Blade Rush +Ataru for 1000-1700 + 250-400

Blade Storm for 3300.

 

That's around 6k depending on your crit chance. Assumes the enemy has some, but slightly low raw %damage reduction from abilities.

 

 

Compared to other classes, it doesn't hurt A LOT.

 

This. Smuggler/Op will drop about 8k-10k damage in 4.5 seconds from stealth, while you are stunned.

 

 

Thats not entirely true. Sentinels have a 3 focus bladestorm instead of guardiand 4, and a 1 focus sweep instead of guardians 3.

 

Incorrect. A Guardian in their DPS tree will have a 3 Focus Bladestorm and a -1 focus cost Sweep (using Sweep gives them 1 focus).

 

 

People posting on here seem to be focusing on single hit damage which is stupid really, when you're throwing combat into the discussion.

 

This. The strength of Combat is that, with a little focus from ZS or simply built up elsewhere, you can unload 1300 Blade Rushes (including Ataru and offhand procs) for about 10 GCDs in a row, with a Blade Rush thrown in.

 

When you go for a kill, you throw in Precision Strike with 2tick Master Strike for the higher spike.

 

The other half of Combat's strength is in all the roots that you get. The roots can take the place of wasting focus on your snare in many cases.

[Popflux]

I would think the hardest hitting combo would be be in the combat tree. Precision strike > blade rush > master strike.

[Mavick]

I would think the hardest hitting combo would be be in the combat tree. Precision strike > blade rush > master strike.

 

 

Absolutely. In pvp, if I'm allowed (key word being: allowed) to put up precision strike, then blade rush, full master strike (that roots) and follow with a blade rush, if it's a squishy target it's usually nearly dead.