SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[krookie]

In what ways does this game perform worse than WoW? I see some of you keep posting this but you don't expand or say how you just stomp your feet a few times in each thread.

 

Explain?

 

People are talking about game play performance, not the game's performance. Stuff like combat and character control responsiveness (this is a big one for me). Lack of standard MMO features: adjustable UI, LFG tool, mouse-over casting, etc.

[Dreossk]

Basic features such as? You didn't post any. How can I miss your point if you don't make one?

 

Posted in previous page.

[PhoenixStar]

People are talking about game play performance, not the game's performance. Stuff like combat and character control responsiveness (this is a big one for me). Lack of standard MMO features: adjustable UI, LFG tool, mouse-over casting, etc.

 

That really isn't at all descriptive. In what ways do you want these things changed? Is it some list that mirrors WoW to the letter? I don't want to assume that's exactly what you mean but I feel like that's exactly what you want.

 

And seriously a LFG tool? You mean like saying LFG [mission/instance][level][class] on any of the zone channels? People are grouping in game. I know it's hard to be social when you're totally anonymous...but really try typing it. It works. I've been doing it for well over a decade with no problem and no special "tool" even when one was available. It's much faster to say so in chat and get a ton of whispers. I usually end up turning people down but asking to group with them later and making friends from it.

Edited December 28, 2011 by PhoenixStar

[DarthSeer]

Basic features such as? You didn't post any. How can I miss your point if you don't make one?

 

Ok

 

How about a dungeon finder? (Not for me, I'm not a big raider)

 

How about a working guild window? Or working Guild Chat?

 

How about a proper search function on the AH?

 

How about a fully accessible AH instead of having it on a handful on planets?

 

How about not getting stuck in a weird position when dismounting a taxi/picking up an item/leaving combat etc?

 

Proper cosmetic system?

 

Proper PVP system?

 

Maybe some of the minor bugs get fixed before a few kids names get added to the credits? Just throwing that out there.

 

Or maybe, just maybe, this game which is so heavily advertised with story being the "fourth pillar" can eliminate the bugs from said pillar - missing lightsabers? Short People? Lips not moving? All bugs reported months ago and several builds ago in Beta.

 

Don't get me wrong please, all in all I'm loving this game, but it does frustrate me when people defend it as being near-to-perfect when it quite clearly isn't. The game feels like it was rushed out, like it wasn't quite ready, and I don't mind saying that. I'd rather these issues get fixed than they don't as I intend for this to be my online home for the forseeable future.

[Darnite]

People are talking about game play performance, not the game's performance. Stuff like combat and character control responsiveness (this is a big one for me). Lack of standard MMO features: adjustable UI, LFG tool, mouse-over casting, etc.

 

I'm happy that SWTOR has chose not to allow third party apps in game, now I don't have to wait for someone to update their addons during an operation(raid). The UI is clean and meshes well with everything. Do you want to play the game, or do you want the game to play for you? LFG tool was a huge mistake by WoW, it took away the social aspect of MMO gaming. Are you to scared to do a shout out in chat, or mark yourself as LFG? Join a guild, make new friends, use the tools that are provided already for you. If that isn't good enough then go back to a game that will probably lose more subscriptions as new MMO"s launch over the next year.

[PhoenixStar]

Ok

 

How about a dungeon finder? (Not for me, I'm not a big raider)

 

WoW feature that promotes being anti-social. I'll pass.

 

How about a working guild window? Or working Guild Chat?

Mine works just fine. In what way is yours broken?

 

How about a proper search function on the AH?

 

I haven't had a problem searching on the AH, what do you mean by proper search function? You really didn't say what was wrong with it.

 

How about a fully accessible AH instead of having it on a handful on planets?

The fleet hubs are social areas. Go be social.

How about not getting stuck in a weird position when dismounting a taxi/picking up an item/leaving combat etc?

Bug report? Hasn't happened to me at all.

 

Proper cosmetic system?

 

Constructively ask for it in detail? 3 words isn't really constructive or detailed...how will they know what you want specifically?

Proper PVP system?

Such as? No details and they already have one in game. How will they know what's proper to you?

 

Maybe some of the minor bugs get fixed before a few kids names get added to the credits? Just throwing that out there.

Bugs like? Saying a game has bugs repeatedly but being incapable of listing them in detail so they can reproduce them and fix them is ridiculous.

Or maybe, just maybe, this game which is so heavily advertised with story being the "fourth pillar" can eliminate the bugs from said pillar - missing lightsabers? Short People? Lips not moving? All bugs reported months ago and several builds ago in Beta.

 

Don't get me wrong please, all in all I'm loving this game, but it does frustrate me when people defend it as being near-to-perfect when it quite clearly isn't. The game feels like it was rushed out, like it wasn't quite ready, and I don't mind saying that. I'd rather these issues get fixed than they don't as I intend for this to be my online home for the forseeable future.

 

Responses in bold. Your details still seem to be absent. Just seeing a lot of fluff.

[StarMagus]

WoW has never offered anything innovative since it's creation. Even instancing dungeons was an EQ feature released at it's peak(shortly before it's decline) that WoW simply improved upon.

 

[/Quote]

 

By that metric this game has nothing innovative either. Voice Acting has been in games before. What this game did, as WoW did, was to take things that worked well in the past and expanded them out and improved upon them. Of course the things that each game focused on is a sign of the value that the dev's have placed on the parts in question.

 

WoW was an evolution of everything that came before it, as is this game. That doesn't make either bad or lacking, it's just how things tend to progress.

[HectorCasan]

We compare because we expect evolution.

 

I know you creationists don't believe in that, but I do. I don't compare a 2011 product to a 2004 at the same phase of release. I compare a product to other products it's competing with, and that is (for one) World of Warcraft as it is right now.

 

 

And how is wow right now?, you guys keep saying it as if wow was wonders, i played wow since vanilla, left before 4.2 patch

 

Here is the proof so you dont think im bull******** you.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/Alarius/simple

 

As you can see the character was "Marshal", thats the old pvp system that was in place on vanilla, you dont see one of this often do you ?

 

Aniways, WOW is in terrible state right now, pretty much everything is being handed easily, Blizzard is using Rehused content like never before and the game is stale because blizzard content update cycle is just waaaay too long.

 

The game started declining since the Sunwell Plateau, Cataclysm was just the worst of the worst, and what are you supposed to get later ?

 

yeah right, FRICKING PANDAS !

[krookie]

That really isn't at all descriptive. In what ways do you want these things changed? Is it some list that mirrors WoW to the letter? I don't want to assume that's exactly what you mean but I feel like that's exactly what you want.

 

And seriously a LFG tool? You mean like saying LFG [mission/instance][level][class] on any of the zone channels? People are grouping in game. I know it's hard to be social when you're totally anonymous...but really try typing it. It works. I've been doing it for well over a decade with no problem and no special "tool" even when one was available. It's much faster to say so in chat and get a ton of whispers. I usually end up turning people down but asking to group with them later and making friends from it.

 

 

Well, for one, there is a huge post on these forums outlining the problem with combat and control responsiveness and it even has videos! I'm not going to summarize it for you as the people in that post have done a great job explaining the issues.

 

As far as the rest... Well, for starters, how about actually implementing a useful server-wide LFG tool for flashpoints? How about implementing a UI where we can have more than 2 frames open at the same time and while they are at it, how about allowing us to drag those frames around and maybe even resize them?

 

And please get off your high "I'm an MMO vet" horse about a LFG tool. Spamming "LFG Mando Raiders" over and over again is not socializing. A proper LFG tool allows you to continue playing the game while looking for a group, instead of hanging out in fleet spamming chat. It would be easier if we have a global LFG chat but since chat is zone specific, you actually have to stay on a particular planet if you want to find a group for something.

[PhoenixStar]

By that metric this game has nothing innovative either. Voice Acting has been in games before. What this game did, as WoW did, was to take things that worked well in the past and expanded them out and improved upon them. Of course the things that each game focused on is a sign of the value that the dev's have placed on the parts in question.

 

WoW was an evolution of everything that came before it, as is this game. That doesn't make either bad or lacking, it's just how things tend to progress.

 

If you had continued reading you'd see I said this game is just as cookie cutter as WoW. I also said this game LAUNCHED where WoW is 7 years later. That means this game has a chance to become better whereas WoW is on it's decline.

 

What did you miss?

 

WoW an evolution? Ha, nope just leftovers. The only thing WoW did was add some new UI features and question features and they were so slight that it's laughable to call that innovative.

Edited December 28, 2011 by PhoenixStar

[StarMagus]

And how is wow right now?, you guys keep saying it as if wow was wonders, i played wow since vanilla, left before 4.2 patch

 

Here is the proof so you dont think im bull******** you.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/Alarius/simple

 

As you can see the character was "Marshal", thats the old pvp system that was in place on vanilla, you dont see one of this often do you ?

 

Aniways, WOW is in terrible state right now, pretty much everything is being handed easily, Blizzard is using Rehused content like never before and the game is stale because blizzard content update cycle is just waaaay too long.

 

The game started declining since the Sunwell Plateau, Cataclysm was just the worst of the worst, and what are you supposed to get later ?

 

yeah right, FRICKING PANDAS !

 

 

Don't forget Pokemon... I heard that was all the rage like 8+ or so years ago.

[Reecelol]

the whole "LFG SYSTEM PROMOTES BEING ANTI-SOCIAL" argument is getting so tired. they should add one. simple as that. dont want to use it? check this out, i know its going to be a real shock to the system but, YOU DONT HAVE TO USE IT. WEIRDDDDDDDDDDDD!

 

keep standing in town spamming for groups if you want. but id rather not.

[PhoenixStar]

Well, for one, there is a huge post on these forums outlining the problem with combat and control responsiveness and it even has videos! I'm not going to summarize it for you as the people in that post have done a great job explaining the issues.

 

As far as the rest... Well, for starters, how about actually implementing a useful server-wide LFG tool for flashpoints? How about implementing a UI where we can have more than 2 frames open at the same time and while they are at it, how about allowing us to drag those frames around and maybe even resize them?

 

And please get off your high "I'm an MMO vet" horse about a LFG tool. Spamming "LFG Mando Raiders" over and over again is not socializing. A proper LFG tool allows you to continue playing the game while looking for a group, instead of hanging out in fleet spamming chat. It would be easier if we have a global LFG chat but since chat is zone specific, you actually have to stay on a particular planet if you want to find a group for something.

 

Not only any MMO vet horse, just tired of seeing people beg for WoW in every new game that launches.

 

And how do you expect these changes the first month of launch?

 

WoW has MANY features now that were flat out denied at launch and were said would never be added to the game. One of them being faction changes which was shot down so many times it made my head spin.

 

So either wait or go back. The choice is yours.

 

the whole "LFG SYSTEM PROMOTES BEING ANTI-SOCIAL" argument is getting so tired. they should add one. simple as that. dont want to use it? check this out, i know its going to be a real shock to the system but, YOU DONT HAVE TO USE IT. WEIRDDDDDDDDDDDD!

 

keep standing in town spamming for groups if you want. but id rather not.

 

Ok and?

 

I haven't had to spam once. If you'd rather not play without it then how does that effect me? Have fun with your Pandas and Pokemon expansion. /shrug

Edited December 28, 2011 by PhoenixStar

[BlastTyrentt]

Because WoW set the bar.

[PhoenixStar]

Because WoW set the bar.

 

Very very low and at 3 for a dollar.

[StarMagus]

If you had continued reading you'd see I said this game is just as cookie cutter as WoW. I also said this game LAUNCHED where WoW is 7 years later. That means this game has a chance to become better whereas WoW is on it's decline.

 

What did you miss?

 

WoW an evolution? Ha, nope just leftovers. The only thing WoW did was add some new UI features and question features and they were so slight that it's laughable to call that innovative.

 

Except the game didn't launch where WoW is now. It has something that are far far better...

 

Story, 8 Different Paths, Morality System, Companions, Voice Acting, and I like the Dungeon Design better as well as the Instancing for solo quests as well as Dungeons.

 

However it has something that are worse...

 

UI, Guild Functions, End Game, PvP, and the time between actions happening and the time the button is pressed.

 

 

Until the day that any MMO closes down it's not done and can change. That said if WoW wasn't an evolution then neither is this game.

[Trucane]

Because we live in the present and not the past

[PhoenixStar]

Except the game didn't launch where WoW is now. It has something that are far far better...

 

Story, 8 Different Paths, Morality System, Companions, Voice Acting, and I like the Dungeon Design better as well as the Instancing for solo quests as well as Dungeons.

 

However it has something that are worse...

 

UI, Guild Functions, End Game, PvP, and the time between actions happening and the time the button is pressed.

 

 

Until the day that any MMO closes down it's not done and can change. That said if WoW wasn't an evolution then neither is this game.

 

 

Fair enough, I'll give SWTOR better, but not by much. Either is ok now, but I'm banking on SWTOR easily surpassing greatly it by the first expansion.

 

I won't even get into bugs because I already know they'll be fixed in no time. Every game fixes their bugs eventually, really not a big deal.

[Kedemel]

Hey, guys. I haven't had an issue with this game so nothing is wrong with it.

[YzenDanek]

Basic features such as? You didn't post any. How can I miss your point if you don't make one?

 

Demanding a dungeon finder, WoW's exact endgame to the letter, town hubs full of players running around just because WoW has two, an "open world with flight", and leveling speed to be the exact same as WoW's is demanding a WoW clone.

 

How do you figure people aren't demanding a WoW clone?

 

A dungeon finder is a basic MMO feature these days. Going back to the EQ model of spamming global channels looking for a tank or healer is a huge step back in general MMO development.

 

A seamless, open world is also a basic feature in quality MMOs these days. Going back to a zone model is a giant, giant step backwards. No. More. Invisible. Walls. That space combat is the most restricted element of the game in terms of movement is especially an egregious oversight in an MMO market that includes EVE online.

 

Leveling speed is always a contentious subject that there will never be any consensus on. That makes it very different from the first two topics. There is no such thing as giving your customers too many useful tools to find people to play with. There is no such thing as a game world that is overly seamless, especially not in a universe where travel between the stars is exactly a matter of blasting out of Mos Eisley spaceport and coming out of hyperspace among the debris of Alderaan.

[StarMagus]

Very very low and at 3 for a dollar.

 

 

Wrong Bar, the bar it set was the amount of money it made. The reason that EA and Bioware were willing to put so much money into this game was because they thought they could make it back. WoW's income total had to factor in their thinking about how much money they could make in the MMO market.

[Darnite]

the whole "LFG SYSTEM PROMOTES BEING ANTI-SOCIAL" argument is getting so tired. they should add one. simple as that. dont want to use it? check this out, i know its going to be a real shock to the system but, YOU DONT HAVE TO USE IT. WEIRDDDDDDDDDDDD!

 

keep standing in town spamming for groups if you want. but id rather not.

 

Oh, and how is that? SWTOR has a LFG system, go read the user manual! You don't have to spam a channel. Wait you want everything handed to you on a silver spoon. I'm so happy that BioWare didn't include have the crap World of Whiners has.

[PhoenixStar]

A dungeon finder is a basic MMO feature these days. Going back to the EQ model of spamming global channels looking for a tank or healer is a huge step back in general MMO development.

 

No it isn't.

 

A seamless, open world is also a basic feature in quality MMOs these days. Going back to a zone model is a giant, giant step backwards. No. More. Invisible. Walls. That space combat is the most restricted element of the game in terms of movement is especially an egregious oversight in an MMO market that includes EVE online.

 

No it isn't.

 

Leveling speed is always a contentious subject that there will never be any consensus on. That makes it very different from the first two topics. There is no such thing as giving your customers too many useful tools to find people to play with. There is no such thing as a game world that is overly seamless, especially not in a universe where travel between the stars is exactly a matter of blasting out of Mos Eisley spaceport and coming out of hyperspace among the debris of Alderaan.

 

Fluff.

 

Bold replies. WoW didn't create the market, WoW didn't set the standard, WoW isn't innovative and never was.

 

Zones are no different than instances. WoW has many instances of which you must zone into. The open world has been completely nullified by instances and the open world was never that great to begin with.

 

WoW is not an open world, it's a lobby while you wait for your zones queue to pop. There I called your instance what it is, a zone...what you think no longer exists is all around you.

 

Dungeon finders turn the world into a lobby.

 

Wrong Bar, the bar it set was the amount of money it made. The reason that EA and Bioware were willing to put so much money into this game was because they thought they could make it back. WoW's income total had to factor in their thinking about how much money they could make in the MMO market.

 

 

Wrong the bar was set to "Clone this game and you'll make this amount of money too." which stagnated the market for 7 years and created a bunch of flops. Why move to a new game that's the same as the one you're currently playing?

Edited December 28, 2011 by PhoenixStar

[StarMagus]

I imagine we'll get a dungeon finder eventually. Most people seem to expect that now, and even companies that say they don't want to put one in, eventually do. I mean they already have that for PvP, you don't spam general that you are looking for PvP and then all go to a PvP loading zone and wait for people from the other side to do the same thing.

[YzenDanek]

Except the game didn't launch where WoW is now. It has something that are far far better...

 

Story, 8 Different Paths, Morality System, Companions, Voice Acting, and I like the Dungeon Design better as well as the Instancing for solo quests as well as Dungeons.

 

However it has something that are worse...

 

UI, Guild Functions, End Game, PvP, and the time between actions happening and the time the button is pressed.

 

 

Until the day that any MMO closes down it's not done and can change. That said if WoW wasn't an evolution then neither is this game.

 

I totally agree with what you've said here.

 

The problem is, everything that defines the long term play experience of an MMO is in your second list.

 

All of the things in your first list are things this game shares with other great Bioware titles that are worth playing for 40-50 hours.