SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[Gerandar]

i dunno you spend as much money as they did and you kind of assume you would get a decent product, voice acting is great and all for the first 10 minutes but after that it got old :\ i'd prefer they invest that money into the gameplay and not into the flare of not having to read a quest.

[Abriael]

2. Big, unconstrained open maps. It is much easier to create an open map than 100 smaller interconnected tiny maps. Major failing that killed Age of Conan and probably many other MMOs where you had to follow straight paths and most of the surroundings were just props.

 

If you think the maps are tiny, you simply didn't play past your initial planet. Play the game, first, then talk

[Gerandar]

If you think the maps are tiny, you simply didn't play past your initial planet. Play the game, first, then talk

 

the maps are tiny, throwing a open area that you get to render and load then putting a barrier of fatigue to stop you from "exploring" it.

[Abriael]

the maps are tiny, throwing a open area that you get to render and load then putting a barrier of fatigue to stop you from "exploring" it.

 

Fatigue? Lol. As I suspected, you didn't play past your initial planet. Again, play the game, then talk. Most of the planets in the game are huge and fully explorable.

 

i dunno you spend as much money as they did and you kind of assume you would get a decent product

 

That's good, because the product is *way* better than decent, at least for anyone that has the ability to judge any kind of MMO product fairly, and not over their overblownand unrealistic expectations.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Abriael

[Forsbacka]

Aside from the fact that it's not just voice acting (even if people with extremely weak arguments try to minimize the innovation to that in order to prove a false point), but the whole storytelling structure to be completely different, there are plenty other differences. The whole flow of combat is different (hello no autoattack), crafting is different, companions and so forth.

 

To put it down simply, you're wrong, and flying in the face of reality and logic doesn't make it less evident.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Storytelling structure? Many people will just space bar those convos after some levels cause its same **** all over again. Quests are pretty much identical to WoW, you think leaving auto attack is innovative or good thing? What about worst acgtion delay of all games ive played in past 37 years? Crafting different, ill send my pet to get mats and craft em. Pet gets annoying from many people and i would rather see it gone but sicne it fastens up leveling why not. Fundamentally all things you mentioned are exactly same as in WoW except differently showed and mostly much worse designed.

[Marmerus]

2. Big, unconstrained open maps. It is much easier to create an open map than 100 smaller interconnected tiny maps. Major failing that killed Age of Conan and probably many other MMOs where you had to follow straight paths and most of the surroundings were just props.

One major thing that stoped me and a lot of my friends from playing was the lack of ability to find groups after the launch period had set.

Now if you level up a character you level pretty fast. Take 2-3 levels each hour between 30-50. And if you want to group up for a dungeon you need to be online at PRIME time and you need to search for people for hours. And then when you finally have a group the chance of the group failing because of the lack of skill people has (even people with multiple lvl 80s) the group disbands and you go back to questing. 2 hours later you outlevel the dungeon and have to start all over.

 

I can imagine same thing happening to SWTOR when launch is gone and there is no more lowbies around. Doing lowbie flashpoints will never happen. Even today when there is LOTS of people your own level there is often problems finding enough people.

 

So lets face it, the people that wants to play this game like a multiplayer game enjoying groups and dungeons (Flashpoints) you will soon start looking at other games with better options.

[iRoddy]

because it had 7 years to do research and development. A game released after it, should have an idea based on whats already done of what should be included an a next gen mmo.

 

As it stands, swtor is like WoW when it launched. Not how WoW is today. Which is the problem.

 

I agree 100%. Finally someone with sense! They had 7 years to look at WoW's pros and cons and yet they launch and developed a game equivalent to the earlier stages of WoW.

[Twolow]

I just wanted a open world mmo and they couldn't even get that right

 

I'm stuck in a hallway for 3/4 of the time and then when I finally see open terrain I'm slapped in the face with a exhaustion invisible wall.

 

I wanted a open world full of my server's players each doing their own thing. Instead I am alone with maybe one other soul around while questing on a server listed as full. The world actually feels as if it has no soul. It's a world full of npcs who stand still and me.

 

I want to shrink my UI that looks like a UI for the blind on my 32 inch screen. I want to zoom out from my character as with the UI being so big I can't take in the world as I'm all up on my character's backside.

 

I do not demand a ton of features that WoW has. I just want what I feel is the basics but I guess my desires are 3 years and 3/4 of a million dollars in budget funds according to you guys? A open world and better camera and UI controls. That's my gripe.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Twolow

[Gerandar]

Fatigue? Lol. As I suspected, you didn't play past your initial planet. Again, play the game, then talk. Most of the planets in the game are huge and fully explorable.

 

 

 

That's good, because the product is *way* better than decent, at least for anyone that has the ability to judge any kind of MMO product fairly, and not over their overblownand unrealistic expectations.

 

 

This time I'm going to point out just how small each of these maps are. how long does it take you to run across any planet? from top to bottom, maybe 20-30mins if that? then we look at a game like WoW that at launch you could run from the top of the Eastern Kingdoms to the bottom of it without hitting a load screen and that run took a good hour-hour and a half. thats massive, having me go to a load screen for just about everything is lazy.

 

as for judging this product fairly it had a huge budget and all it really did right was the voice overs, FPS issues that people are suffering and the joke that is the Hero engine will take a chunk out of this games bite.

[Abriael]

Storytelling structure? Many people will just space bar those convos after some levels cause its same **** all over again. Quests are pretty much identical to WoW, you think leaving auto attack is innovative or good thing? What about worst acgtion delay of all games ive played in past 37 years? Crafting different, ill send my pet to get mats and craft em. Pet gets annoying from many people and i would rather see it gone but sicne it fastens up leveling why not. Fundamentally all things you mentioned are exactly same as in WoW except differently showed and mostly much worse designed.

 

1: did you poll players to know that "many people" just space bar through those convos? Talk for yourself. The whole storytelling structure is different because players are able to actually influence the outcome of quests.

 

2: the lack of autoattack combined with a fluid combat system like this one is quite innnovative. Good or bad thing? depends on taste, but it's definitely different.

 

3: if you think this is anywhere near the worst action delay in "all games you played in the past 37 years" you must have played very few games in the past 37 years. You're simply using a massive hyperbole to prove a false point.

 

4: Yes, crafting is different. No matter if you like it or not, it's still different.

 

5: Again, it's a large difference, the fact that you find them annoying (again, speak for yourself, since you have no idea about the "many people") has no bearing to it.

 

6: your taste is completely inconsequential. It's different. if you like wow more, go back to wow and it's childish stories, but denying differences just because you don't like them is quite laughable.

[Gerandar]

1: did you poll players to know that "many people" just space bar through those convos? Talk for yourself. The whole storytelling structure is different because players are able to actually influence the outcome of quests.

 

what outcome either I do it nicely no questions asked, do it but be a jerk about it, or do it and be a complete ******e about it. in the end you still end up doing the same quests. you just get to pick if you want your character to wear yellow contacts and a ton of makeup

[a_Stalker]

Storytelling structure? Many people will just space bar those convos after some levels cause its same **** all over again. Quests are pretty much identical to WoW, you think leaving auto attack is innovative or good thing? What about worst acgtion delay of all games ive played in past 37 years? Crafting different, ill send my pet to get mats and craft em. Pet gets annoying from many people and i would rather see it gone but sicne it fastens up leveling why not. Fundamentally all things you mentioned are exactly same as in WoW except differently showed and mostly much worse designed.

 

Well there are so many ways to skin a cat. I mean to kill something. There are basic tenents you cannot ignore. The enemy has hit points which you have to deplete and you can do so by melee or ranged attacks. Your companions will receive damage and you have to heal them somehow. And the healers must be protected because they are weak and they die. Why make the healers weak? Well if they were not weak and could stand their own then why roll any other class. Anyway they could design it so that you do not need tanks, only DPS and every DPS sort of auto-heals. But in any case it is unrealistic to expect a huge deviation from this. I am not unhappy at SWTOR combat mechanics just yet (level 18).

 

Actually compared to WoW SWTOR has light sabers and laser rifles , hugely entertaining stuff.

[Abriael]

This time I'm going to point out just how small each of these maps are. how long does it take you to run across any planet? from top to bottom, maybe 20-30mins if that? then we look at a game like WoW that at launch you could run from the top of the Eastern Kingdoms to the bottom of it without hitting a load screen and that run took a good hour-hour and a half. thats massive, having me go to a load screen for just about everything is lazy.

 

as for judging this product fairly it had a huge budget and all it really did right was the voice overs, FPS issues that people are suffering and the joke that is the Hero engine will take a chunk out of this games bite.

 

 

It will take you 30 minutes even to run from an extremity to the other in skyrim, yet skyrim is considered massive. So yes, the maps are massive. Again, get out of your initial planet, it may help you.

 

The fact that wow doesn't have loading screens doesn't matter, as the total explorable area of wow at launch wasn't anywhere bigger than that of swtor. It makes sense for SWTOR to be divided in planets, since it simulates a galaxy. Those planets aren't anywhere "small" or "tiny" compared to the average MMO zones, so you simply don't have a point.

 

 

what outcome either I do it nicely no questions asked, do it but be a jerk about it, or do it and be a complete ******e about it. in the end you still end up doing the same quests. you just get to pick if you want your character to wear yellow contacts and a ton of makeup

 

 

With every reply you continue to demonstrate that you didn't play the game extensively, and you simply lack the tools or the fairness to judge. If you dislike this game so much, just go back to wow and stop trolling.

 

You can decide if characters die or survive, just to make a blatant example on how wrong you are.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Abriael

[csward]

People say wow has so many fetures and swtor is bad because it does not have them... wow has had 7 years to improve upon its self. Give Swtor a chance and time to put in the things your ******* complaining about.... ¬.¬

 

WoW was not the first MMO nore was it original all WoW did was take the MMO template and improve upon it by removing things that were annoying (e.g crafting had a chance to fail) it did this with games Such as Ever Quest and so on.

 

SWTOR has done the same it has take the MMO TEMPLATE not copyed wow but taken the MMO TEMPLATE Which all MMO's use and removed useless stuff, ADDED its own stuff and improved upon existing stuff.

 

People need to remember WoW its self is a quoat un quoat "Clone" of the MMO's that came before it.

 

My final point. Who cares if it borrowed things from other games, it happens all the time in everything. just shut up, get on with the game and stop comparing it to WoW; an MMO thats long out lived its greatness WoW "died" along time ago and is just clinging onto life and dragging its self out to long. Its 7 gosh darn years old, its had its time at the top and has set a good standard for MMO's to go by and people should accept the fact its long out lived its awesomenes.

 

Sir, people will always compare substitutes of a product to the actual product they are considering for purchase. When you go to the grocery store do you not compare the store brand to the name brand? Do you not compare one grocery store to another? The time the product has been out is largely irreverent to a large amount of people choosing whether or not to buy the game.

 

While I agree that most MMOs launch in this state or worse, it is because of very good substitutes the consumer demands more. The bar has been raised and developers need to step up to that challenge.

[Marmerus]

1: did you poll players to know that "many people" just space bar through those convos? Talk for yourself. The whole storytelling structure is different because players are able to actually influence the outcome of quests.

 

2: the lack of autoattack combined with a fluid combat system like this one is quite innnovative. Good or bad thing? depends on taste, but it's definitely different.

 

3: if you think this is anywhere near the worst action delay in "all games you played in the past 37 years" you must have played very few games in the past 37 years. You're simply using a massive hyperbole to prove a false point.

 

4: Yes, crafting is different. No matter if you like it or not, it's still different.

 

5: Again, it's a large difference, the fact that you find them annoying (again, speak for yourself, since you have no idea about the "many people") has no bearing to it.

 

6: your taste is completely inconsequential. It's different. if you like wow more, go back to wow and it's childish stories, but denying differences just because you don't like them is quite laughable.

 

1. The majority of the players in the flashpoints are doing that.

 

2. Exactly what changes based upon your character auto attacking once or twice every second or not? This only normalizes the damage and makes the game easier to balance because of that extra steady dps. So out of a gameplay point of view it does not change anything but out of game mechanical point of view it just makes it slightly harder to balance.

 

3. Maybe not worst but it is pretty bad.

 

4. In its current form useless for most part. Just a money sink. If you save your money and BUY some random epics and combine it with PVP epics you will notice you saved money, time and you have better stuff than everyone crafting the stuff.

 

5.

 

6. If someone like me that is bored of WoW rather have something else to play. Now if the game I play is good but could get improved a lot there is not reason to keep my mouth shut and just take it from behind. Rather stand up and tell the developers what Im not happy with so they can improve that.

[Xzulld]

People compare because they want SWTOR to be the best game it can be, and SWTOR is competing against 2011 WoW, not 2004 Wow.

 

Well said. I happen to love this game already. I do however advocate for quality of life changes that will make it more pleasurable to manage operations, get groups for flashpoints, and alter specs seamlessly to contribute as a player among a group of players.

[Abriael]

While I agree that most MMOs launch in this state or worse, it is because of very good substitutes the consumer demands more. The bar has been raised and developers need to step up to that challenge.

 

Customers need to have realistic expectations, unless you think setting yourself up for disappointment is a good thing, which it isn't.

[Gaidax]

It is 2011 now, I could not care less what was back then in 2004... Is it really so hard to understand?

[a_Stalker]

About the open maps which is my first and foremost gripe: I am level 18 and so far I have been in countless corridor-type maps. I am now on TARIS which even though "open planet" is actually not at all open. I mean there are walls everywhere. The biggest room is less than 100 yards wide. I have to follow certain paths else I hit a wall. Terrible. And of course I cannot fly over any planet's surface.

 

I somehow doubt that Tatoine or other planets are completely open as in WOW. I seriously doubt it. WOW is 18GB on my hard disk and so is SWTOR. Actually I do not care if SWTOR had 3 more DVDs. I have plently of disk space. Just give me the open maps!

Edited December 29, 2011 by a_Stalker

[a_Stalker]

It is 2011 now, I could not care less what was back then in 2004... Is it really so hard to understand?

 

Yes you are talking with children, they cannot understand this basic concept. Perhaps they should also go buy single 100MHz CPU to play this game by the same reasoning...

[Abriael]

1. The majority of the players in the flashpoints are doing that.

 

Did you poll them? I do flashpoints at a pace of 3-4 a day, and I encountered two parties that sipped through them in two weeks. So much for your made up statistics on the "majority"

 

2. Exactly what changes based upon your character auto attacking once or twice every second or not? This only normalizes the damage and makes the game easier to balance because of that extra steady dps. So out of a gameplay point of view it does not change anything but out of game mechanical point of view it just makes it slightly harder to balance.

 

It changes a lot of the mechanics of combat and the involvement required for the player during combat itself.

 

3. Maybe not worst but it is pretty bad.

 

It's actually pretty average for any MMORPG at launch, when the servers are still in the process of being optimized and the initial zones are crowded.

 

4. In its current form useless for most part. Just a money sink. If you save your money and BUY some random epics and combine it with PVP epics you will notice you saved money, time and you have better stuff than everyone crafting the stuff.

 

It's for sure making me a lot of money, and will probably make even more in the future.

Again, the fact that it doesn't fit your taste has absolutely no bearing on the fact that it's different.

 

6. If someone like me that is bored of WoW rather have something else to play. Now if the game I play is good but could get improved a lot there is not reason to keep my mouth shut and just take it from behind. Rather stand up and tell the developers what Im not happy with so they can improve that.

 

There's a large difference between giving constructive feedback on what should be improved and on whining about the game not having the same features (especially while it has others) than another game with several years of development behind it.

 

The first is logical and acceptable, the second is a sign of dire ignorance.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Abriael

[justargos]

The thing to me is, yeah, the game isn't perfect, but it is their game. It won't be a huge failure, but it also won't be the WoW killer, it will be a good game in its own right and I will enjoy it.

 

WoW was fun, but just because Blizzard added a feature to WoW doesn't mean it needs to be in every game ever made from that point on. The LFG feature for example completely ruined WoW for me. Not having that here is a refreshing change. Nothing killed server communities faster then the LFG tool. If that never comes to this game I will be happy.

 

I played WoW from launch through Lich King, but never had as much fun with it later on as I had with Vanilla WoW. To me, a lot of the stuff they added because people whined enough about it just ruined the gameplay. TOR has removed a bunch of that stuff and made the MMO genre fun again for me. If it isn't your thing that is fine, but play the game for the enjoyment of it.

 

I am amazed by how many people refer to what they do in games as "work." If it is work you have the wrong hobby, it is a game, you should be happy it takes longer to do something in the game, as it makes the fun of the game last longer.

 

Vanilla WoW was fun, you met people, ran instances, raided, had a group of friends you did things with, explored, etc. Wow today is log on, queue for a group, que for PVP, wait for a timer to pop so you can run an instance or PVP, repeat, never even have to talk to a person on your own server, never have to explore, nothing. I can queue for instances I have never actually been to, and can run dungeons in lands I have never even seen.

 

That can be fun, but it is different, and it is definitely not what makes MMOs enjoyable for me. If TOR was that, I would not be playing it, and that is why I no longer play WoW.

[Forsbacka]

1: did you poll players to know that "many people" just space bar through those convos? Talk for yourself. The whole storytelling structure is different because players are able to actually influence the outcome of quests.

 

2: the lack of autoattack combined with a fluid combat system like this one is quite innnovative. Good or bad thing? depends on taste, but it's definitely different.

 

3: if you think this is anywhere near the worst action delay in "all games you played in the past 37 years" you must have played very few games in the past 37 years. You're simply using a massive hyperbole to prove a false point.

 

4: Yes, crafting is different. No matter if you like it or not, it's still different.

 

5: Again, it's a large difference, the fact that you find them annoying (again, speak for yourself, since you have no idea about the "many people") has no bearing to it.

 

6: your taste is completely inconsequential. It's different. if you like wow more, go back to wow and it's childish stories, but denying differences just because you don't like them is quite laughable.

 

 

1. There aint really much different choices that effects anything else tha ntrivial things.

 

2. Fluid? If you eman that you pushing button makes your char doing nothing, interrupting actions or chaining attacks is impossible is cool, gl with that.

 

3. Not really, action delay is worse than in any game ive ever played and seen same comments on different threads.

 

4: Looks different.

 

6. I wont go to WoW if i quit this game. Childish stories? If this games stories are any mature than WoWs i havent noticed it. Mayeb shouldnt use space bar that much.

[Abriael]

About the open maps which is my first and foremost gripe: I am level 18 and so far I have been in countless corridor-type maps. I am now on TARIS which even though "open planet" is actually not at all open. I mean there are walls everywhere. The biggest room is less than 100 yards wide. I have to follow certain paths else I hit a wall. Terrible. And of course I cannot fly over any planet's surface.

 

The only "terrible" thing I see here is your utter lack of insight. of course there are walls, you know, it's an urban world, it happens to have buildings. Are you advocating that every world should be a large, barren desert? all of those obstacles can be walked around. So yes, it's a huge open map.

 

I somehow doubt that Tatoine or other planets are completely open as in WOW. I seriously doubt it. WOW is 18GB on my hard disk and so is SWTOR. Actually I do not care if SWTOR had 3 more DVDs. I have plently of disk space. Just give me the open maps!

 

What you doubt is inconsequential. Go there and experience it, then come back instead of basing your assumption on nothing and hot air.

[fro_do_fraggins]

It's unfair because they expect SWTOR to only be released when they have all of their wishlist implemented, even if that causes a year of delay and lost revenue.

 

It's fair to people that are happy with WOW that need more from SWTOR to get them to leave. Why leave a game you like for one that doesn't have things you have come to expect?