Solo Everything

[Halinalle]

Just stop already. SWTOR was never meant to be KotOR 3.

[Severith]

I'd argue someone ranting that they can do stuff solo isn't helping the SWTOR community- all it does is get defensives up.

 

 

So we agree. If we made Dread Palace soloable with a super droid, and someone starts bragging in general chat about how great they are as a player because they soloed the Dread Masters, it would get actual raiders defensive about their own achievements, and it wouldn't help the community.

 

Hmmm, I guess we don't agree, because that person has earned my disrespect for bragging about something easily done, but earned your respect because he paid his 15 dollars a month to Bioware/EA.

 

I think it's cute how you infer how emotional I get, and express that in a post in which you are so clearly triggered.

[Halinalle]

Just tested how "challenging" solo version of Depths of Manaan is now on Scrapper Scoundrel.

 

First boss goes down easily without GSI droid. With level 12 healer companion.

Second boss goes down easily without GSI droid. With level 12 healer companion. I ignored adds most of the time. I completely ignored the mechanic on purpose. Gotta do something to make it even remotely "challenging".

Last boss goes down easily without GSI droid. With level 12 healer companion. Only used Flurry of Bolts and fire to damage the boss. Ignored adds completely until boss and Bowdaar died. I stealthed out and adds disappeared.

 

That maybe explains why so many players think FP is difficult in veteran mode.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Halinalle

[mike_carton]

... I'd argue someone ranting that they can do stuff solo isn't helping the SWTOR community- all it does is get defensives up. Everybody needs to be taken care of and being toxic jerks towards solo players won't help.

 

We're all subs here so let's treat each other with respect.

 

Amen.

[DarthDymond]

Just stop already. SWTOR was never meant to be KotOR 3.

"Our fans ask, 'Why aren't you doing Knights of the Old Republic 3?' What we're really doing [with SWTOR] is Knights of the Old Republic 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12-plus." ~James Ohlen. BW Creative Director

 

"It’s kind of cool, like, KOTOR fans — they get grumpy but we tell them over and over again, and they’ll believe it when they play it — it really is like KOTOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 literally in this one game." ~Dr. Greg Zeschuk, BW Co-Founder

 

"People shouldn't worry because if they love KOTOR and play The Old Republic they'll really get the KOTOR experience - it'll be like playing parts 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 all in the one game." ~Dr. Ray Muzyka, BW Co-Founder

[VegasTheLost]

However, that does not change the fact that there are still many people out there who simply cannot find enough players with which to do this content on servers at a particular time. It's easy enough to say "just play during primetime" or "play during the time one of these groups have established", but there are 24 hours in a day, and surprise surprise, many people who can not play at times that are convenient for everyone else. Once again, no player should be punished by being locked out of content simply because of the time they have to play or the inability of the devs or game to allow for specific group only content to make it easier to group for said content at any point during the day.[/i]

 

Don't give me that punished because time constraint argument please. No one is is punished, no one is forced and no one is locked out. They just choose to not do it how it's meant to do it. We're all grown ups here, we can manage our times, we can work out a solution. Don't we? There is plenty of option to do a content the way it's meant to do it, but these options will not chase down anyone in need. Those who desperate, need to act, need to find the most suitable option for themselves and trust me, making OPS soloable in retrospective is not an option.

 

For instance:

- Server section of the forums to find guilds or groups

- FP, OPS section of the forums to find answers for questions or even a group

- Fleet general chat for forming groups to join

- Guild

- Friend list

- Whatever one can think of

 

I think these are more than enough options to start with.

[DarthDymond]

Don't give me that punished because time constraint argument please. No one is is punished, no one is forced and no one is locked out. They just choose to not do it how it's meant to do it. We're all grown ups here, we can manage our times, we can work out a solution. Don't we? There is plenty of option to do a content the way it's meant to do it, but these options will not chase down anyone in need. Those who desperate, need to act, need to find the most suitable option for themselves and trust me, making OPS soloable in retrospective is not an option.

 

For instance:

- Server section of the forums to find guilds or groups

- FP, OPS section of the forums to find answers for questions or even a group

- Fleet general chat for forming groups to join

- Guild

- Friend list

- Whatever one can think of

 

I think these are more than enough options to start with.

The forums have been in an uproar for months because of players who don't care for the way they are "meant to" do certain content in the game. Giving BW the feedback that "hey, you want us to do things this way, I don't like that, I think we should do things this other way" is perfectly valid, whether you're talking about revamping the Galactic Command system to add gear drops or revamping Operations to add a solo option.

[VegasTheLost]

The forums have been in an uproar for months because of players who don't care for the way they are "meant to" do certain content in the game. Giving BW the feedback that "hey, you want us to do things this way, I don't like that, I think we should do things this other way" is perfectly valid, whether you're talking about revamping the Galactic Command system to add gear drops or revamping Operations to add a solo option.

 

Pretty much a different beast. BW touched something that were working well and was easy to understand and weren't meant to touched. Loot drops(and not the 4.0 highlighted hard mode crap). They messed it up and came the uproar. Context my friend.

[DarthDymond]

Pretty much a different beast. BW touched something that were working well and was easy to understand and weren't meant to touched. Loot drops(and not the 4.0 highlighted hard mode crap). They messed it up and came the uproar. Context my friend.

The only context involved seems to be: "I, too, would like the Galactic Command system changed, therefore suggestions to change the Galactic Command system are valid feedback" vs "I don't care about seeing the Operations system changed, therefore suggestions to change the Operations system are invalid whining."

 

Sorry, but if players believe they see a better way for the game to be set up relative to the way things are currently "meant to" be done - regardless of whether that better way [A] involves reverting to an earlier approach they thought was working well or involves a new and different approach - then I don't see how "you just don't want to do things the way they're meant to be done" is a legitimate counterargument.

[AllisonLightning]

Just tested how "challenging" solo version of Depths of Manaan is now on Scrapper Scoundrel.

 

First boss goes down easily without GSI droid. With level 12 healer companion.

Second boss goes down easily without GSI droid. With level 12 healer companion. I ignored adds most of the time. I completely ignored the mechanic on purpose. Gotta do something to make it even remotely "challenging".

Last boss goes down easily without GSI droid. With level 12 healer companion. Only used Flurry of Bolts and fire to damage the boss. Ignored adds completely until boss and Bowdaar died. I stealthed out and adds disappeared.

 

That maybe explains why so many players think FP is difficult in veteran mode.

 

Fire is a mechanic- but your point is otherwise sound. It annoyed the frell out of me because I find the solo FP versions boring as hell. I run them solo when I'm doing a story arc otherwise I need to group for them because they're more fun that way and offer an excitement- Veteran is painful when you have people outright ignoring mechanics, standing in 'Flow' channel phase and otherwise ignoring mechanics. Solo you can stand in Flow like an idiot and you won't get zapped like crazy- I'd love for there to be little tooltips- i.e. 'Note: In Veteran Mode- Flow's damage is greatly increased' when people stand in the puddles during solo mode. I'm a big advocate for actual tutorial tooltips that help.

 

So we agree. If we made Dread Palace soloable with a super droid, and someone starts bragging in general chat about how great they are as a player because they soloed the Dread Masters, it would get actual raiders defensive about their own achievements, and it wouldn't help the community.

 

Hmmm, I guess we don't agree, because that person has earned my disrespect for bragging about something easily done, but earned your respect because he paid his 15 dollars a month to Bioware/EA.

 

I think it's cute how you infer how emotional I get, and express that in a post in which you are so clearly triggered.

 

My inference was about people complaining that solo versions exist and creating unneeded strife between player groups. But, you are right in the fact that anyone stupid enough to brag about solo-ing DP with some solo version would not be helping matters. And, as in we're all valued equally because we pay a sub fee and there's no need to talk down to a solo player who stays subbed anymore than a raider.

 

Sorry but no trigger here. I did get triggered when this solo 'insert word' went on the other week about how he was glad PvP players were suffering because we're apparently not good people because we like PvP and that their gearing needs were being unfairly hampered by the fact they refused to PvP, run Ops and so on. I don't feel the need to attack all of them because they're mostly good people who happen to enjoy playing by themselves and pay for the game like I do and I can't blame them for the stupid NGE style gearing system. I'm not arguing for solo Op versions at all but they can't solo and brag about it so that's a non-issue.

 

All I'm asking is that you treat them equally in terms of basic respect (I gave up on anything below subs a long time ago)- you don't have to agree with them that they need some paint-by-numbers solo Ops joke that they'd then complain didn't have all that much story. Ops aren't story, they are raids essentially with a bit of story wrapper so they somehow still fit. I'm excited for the new raid because I can't wait to learn beside my guildmates all the mechanics and how excited they'll be at new Ops content.

 

Those solo player subs are paying for this new Ops content despite not playing it and when hopefully we get another warzone- yes, they got a long turn at the content production line and this new group stuff is really important for the longevity of the game. But they are equal parts of our community and treating them like the problem isn't fair. Or that there aren't mechanic lessons in the story content because there are, or that the majority of solo players are so frelling stupid, that they believe the ego stroking the game gives them. You want to believe you're a snowflake, you'll take someone calling you a witless wonder as 'I'm a special snowflake and they don't appreciate me'- anyone who takes the game's narrative as gospel proof they are a good player needs to turn off the game and get therapy. It's a story- not reality.

[BJWyler]

Don't give me that punished because time constraint argument please. No one is is punished, no one is forced and no one is locked out. They just choose to not do it how it's meant to do it. We're all grown ups here, we can manage our times, we can work out a solution. Don't we? There is plenty of option to do a content the way it's meant to do it, but these options will not chase down anyone in need. Those who desperate, need to act, need to find the most suitable option for themselves and trust me, making OPS soloable in retrospective is not an option.

 

For instance:

- Server section of the forums to find guilds or groups

- FP, OPS section of the forums to find answers for questions or even a group

- Fleet general chat for forming groups to join

- Guild

- Friend list

- Whatever one can think of

 

I think these are more than enough options to start with.

 

Which fail repeatedly for many people. I have seen this across games that have this issue to one degree or another that have bigger population than SWTOR does. Yeah we are all grown ups (or at least should be), and that comes with the understanding that - shock of shocks, the system still fails a great many people.

 

This is the 21st Century of gaming and particularly of MMOs. Gone are those glory days of Ultima Online. Sad in a way, but the MMO genre is much better off for it. Like the gaming industry and like the gaming community along with it, the MMO genre has grown up and has begun to mature. With that comes the realization that making things accessible to a casual or solo player actually helps the industry and genre grow and get better. MMOs would be a thing of the past had not the paradigm shift occur over the last decade to encompass all player types and the changes that have occurred in gaming society during the course of this time.

 

Making an MMO 100% soloable is not a detriment, but a boon to the genre and the industry as a whole. Being able to pick up a play a game no matter the time of day or no matter how much time to play and go and experience whatever content a player wants to experience at that particular moment is the saving grace of this genre and the industry as a whole. A game that can embrace and make all of its content that is both challenging and engaging both in a group setting as in a solo setting is a game that has a long future in this industry.

 

I for one relish an opportunity to beat whatever raid content a game has to offer with my fellow friends and guildmates, and then to do so in a solo setting as well, with no one there to help me but myself. That is the epitome of the gaming experience.

 

************************************************** **********************************************

You can take any game with any type of group-only raid-equivalent content and make it perfectly feasible to be equally challenging to a solo player. Having that option is neither a detriment to group play nor to player skill.

[Heal-To-Full]

There are limits. Certain content exists specifically for group play.

 

And it's a tiny fraction of the content. Ops aren't even 5% of the story. It's what... 3 hrs of basic ops (EV, KP, TFB), 3 hrs of mid-tier (DF, Rav), 6 hrs of hard (EC, DP, ToS). 12 hours.

Each class story is 50 hrs of spacebarring, 75 normal play, another 150 hrs of planet quests per side. Tactical flashpoints, events, post-class stories... All of that is solo content. 1000 hours in total.

 

Between recruit-everyone guilds and group finder, there's no reason anyone of any ability should feel excluded from operations. Unless they're not a sub, in which case - that's 100% deliberate.

 

Flashpoints, I agree, most could get solo modes. They can still make sense. But Operations don't work solo. They test your group coordination and ability to follow mechanics. Tank, heal, DPS, and the interaction. Which mechanic would you do in solo mode? There is no right answer - neither of the three mechanics types is even used in every boss encounter.

[Severith]

 

I for one relish an opportunity to beat whatever raid content a game has to offer with my fellow friends and guildmates, and then to do so in a solo setting as well, with no one there to help me but myself. That is the epitome of the gaming experience.

 

 

You've constantly accused other people of projecting assumptions, and then you go on to declare what the "epitome of the gaming experience" is. You're literally saying that the perfect gaming experience is the one that you think is perfect and no one elses.

 

You haven't even done a swtor raid solo yet, that's been balanced for solo play, but you're declaring that it's part of the perfect game. You should pull your head out of whatever stinky place you keep it in.

 

That attitude is all over the MMO market, and it is always wrong. "This new MMO is gonna be so great". "This new MMO is gonna be the WoW killer". They always flop and fail, because the expectations of the hypothetical never pan out in the gaming industry.

 

The majority of people here, are telling you, that solo modes for flashpoints are boring. They're telling you that based on actual experience. It's easy to see solo mode operations would be the same way. But you, you've hyped up the Solo mode Raids so much in your head that you're not looking at the reality of how they would actually end up.

 

Dale Carnegie once wrote that no one in the history of the world has ever won an argument. He was right, because people get too defensive. I know that no amount of logic, experience, or common sense will convince you how stupid solo raiding will be. But for everyone else, reading that your "epitome of the gaming experience" is based on nothing but conjecture and self induced hype, would see exactly how meritless your arguments have been.

 

Solo raiding is an objectively stupid idea.

 

But who knows. There is hope. Bioware has done some stupid things. I'm out. Good luck to you.

[verfallen]

I play at RedEclipse, most populated EU server...

 

I have a quest for H4 shroud and its impossible to collect enough players!

I have a quest for Kaon Under Siege (thanks for making it 70lvl - not) and group finder is dead!

I have a quest for Corporate Labs and group finder is dead!

 

Make EVERY quest in game soloable... solo mode for operations, solo mode for flashpoints, FOR EVERYTHING. I cant enjoy the game because there is noone to play with. I dont care about loot... I want to complete EVERY quest in my quest log and its impossible. You changed things and created Veteran and Master... where is CASUAL mode just for quests and learning tactics. Operations should have CASUAL mode as well... I want to try it solo without watching 1hour long video.

 

1st- can take a while but did it with a group last week on a toon. its the one quest in your list I'd consider should be modified to be soloed, since its not repeatable, and very few ppl bother with macro quest. you can solo the seeker droid h4. the 1st miniboss require some planning.

 

2nd- soloed, dps and heal comp. also soloed LI in 4.0.

 

3rd-possibly soloable, but first boss will take a while and require companion managing. didnt bother to try and won't.

 

 

but the rest, it IS an MMO. Altough the challenge to solo tactical kaon, LI and the seeker droid h4 was pretty fun.

Edited March 14, 2017 by verfallen

[perotta]

You've constantly accused other people of projecting assumptions, and then you go on to declare what the "epitome of the gaming experience" is. You're literally saying that the perfect gaming experience is the one that you think is perfect and no one elses.

 

You haven't even done a swtor raid solo yet, that's been balanced for solo play, but you're declaring that it's part of the perfect game. You should pull your head out of whatever stinky place you keep it in.

 

That attitude is all over the MMO market, and it is always wrong. "This new MMO is gonna be so great". "This new MMO is gonna be the WoW killer". They always flop and fail, because the expectations of the hypothetical never pan out in the gaming industry.

 

The majority of people here, are telling you, that solo modes for flashpoints are boring. They're telling you that based on actual experience. It's easy to see solo mode operations would be the same way. But you, you've hyped up the Solo mode Raids so much in your head that you're not looking at the reality of how they would actually end up.

 

Dale Carnegie once wrote that no one in the history of the world has ever won an argument. He was right, because people get too defensive. I know that no amount of logic, experience, or common sense will convince you how stupid solo raiding will be. But for everyone else, reading that your "epitome of the gaming experience" is based on nothing but conjecture and self induced hype, would see exactly how meritless your arguments have been.

 

Solo raiding is an objectively stupid idea.

 

But who knows. There is hope. Bioware has done some stupid things. I'm out. Good luck to you.

 

You know, it's ironic because throughout the thread you keep making assumptions about other people, and you do it again. "Dinner with friends is better", "they'll be miserable", "it will ruin the experience", " it will ruin group content", "solo players would think it's boring", "the majority of people"...

 

First, stop telling people what they feel or what they would feel. I can speak for myself just fine, thank you. Solo option cannot possibly ruin anyone's group experience. Solo players don't experience group content in the first place, while group players stick to group content. Is it possible that players won't like the experience that comes with a solo option? Possibly. So what? It's an option. If they don't like it they can participate in group content. You, I take it, are a group player. Did the existence of a solo FP ruin your personal experience with group FPs? If yes, then tell me, how?

 

While we are at it, where is the majority that tells you that solo FPs are boring? I don't find solo FPs boring. A lot of people don't. Some people do - because they prefer doing content with a group. That's why these people don't do solo content, they do group content. Now, sometimes they have to do it solo because they can't find players for a group. That's a bummer - perfectly understandable. But it doesn't happen because FPs have a solo option. A lot of players left the game or play inconsistently due to a bunch of different reasons (bugs, nerfs, devs not listening to players, Galactic Command system) - naturally, less players to find for group content. Can you prove that, had there been no solo option for FPs, it would have been easier to find a group? Because I don't see any proof of that.

 

It was a solo option for FPs that actually got me into the game after a long period of inactivity. I had already done all class storylines. I would not have returned had there been no option to do Ilum FPs or Forged Alliances FPs solo. I would not have returned and grouped with other players. Solo FPs didn't ruin anything for me; they gave me an opportunity to have new experiences. I liked these experiences. I haven't seen one person whose experiences "got ruined" because I enjoyed solo FPs. Are you the one? Please, enlighten me.

 

Are there valid reasons against adding solo option? Yes. As much as I would like to see a solo option for Ops, I can attest to that. I have yet to see you mention them, though.

[Halinalle]

It was a solo option for FPs that actually got me into the game after a long period of inactivity. I had already done all class storylines. I would not have returned had there been no option to do Ilum FPs or Forged Alliances FPs solo. I would not have returned and grouped with other players. Solo FPs didn't ruin anything for me; they gave me an opportunity to have new experiences. I liked these experiences. I haven't seen one person whose experiences "got ruined" because I enjoyed solo FPs. Are you the one? Please, enlighten me.

 

Ilum FPs were soloable way before solo mode for them was introduced. Also in 3.0 all lvl50 HM FPs were soloable to point that you could complete them all just by rolling your face on your keyboard.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Halinalle

[AllisonLightning]

Ilum FPs were soloable way before solo mode for them was introduced. Also in 3.0 all lvl50 HM FPs were soloable to point that you could complete them all just by rolling your face on your keyboard.

 

Well, you could get ten levels above the content, I was playing in the last few months of 3.x so I wouldn't know anything past that. I did both Rakghoul flashpoints before they level synced them in 5.0, and Kaon Under Siege basically involved rolling my face on the keyboard. It was a cheese fest. I'm actually looking forward to dragging a few guildmates through next Rakghoul week at their synced up versions.

 

The solo versions are for story arc purposes as part of your class story, that and Forged Alliances. I enjoy running through the story but second times and more are strictly group. I'm logged on for far shorter spates when I'm doing solo content than when I'm grouping up because of the finite nature of story content.

[FafsBG]

Been on TRE 3 years now and I don't see what the group finder issue is. Sure, HM queue lacks tanks and heals and hence takes ages to pop if you queue as dps, but look around for a guild, make friends with a tank/heal and queue with them. Been doing that last 2 weeks every single day - I queue with a friend, we alternate between t&dd, t&h, dd&h combos and always get pops within max 10 min. We've literally done over 50 HM flashpoints these past two weeks that way. Either that or learn to tank/heal yourself.

As for tacticals - that's trickier. Just today I got wiped in 2 separate groups because people were literally clicking random abilities (like shielding and dropping aggro before the fight even starts), standing in boss aoe and pulling every mob group in their way. But I attribute that to BW making the game too easy and not forcing you to learn when to use what so you both survive and kill the boss/mob (which I was forced to endure starting SWTOR just before 3.0 and it made me a better player - I read tooltips, asked guildies for gearing and tactics advice, geared up companions, etc.). And if you get in a group where people click random abilities and stand in red circles and you end up tanking as a squishy dps and the bosses enrage on tacticals ... I can understand the frustration and the aversion to playing group content. It's even worse when you get a clueless person in HM flashpoint and you have to kick them because they have no idea what they're doing, or even if they do, bosses enrage because their dps is low due to wrong rotation or gear. But there are still plenty quality players queuing up. Kick and ignore the people giving you headaches and you'll be fine.

As for operations group finder - just go on fleet and form there. People have had too many bad experiences with people queuing as both roles and not being geared/competent for either - it wastes everyone's time. So it's easier to form ops groups on the fleet. Not to mention that people too often fail EC and Rav mechanics, even after you explain and wipe a couple of times - any experienced player simply gives up at that point - and hence people don't form or queue for those operations.

[BJWyler]

You've constantly accused other people of projecting assumptions, and then you go on to declare what the "epitome of the gaming experience" is. You're literally saying that the perfect gaming experience is the one that you think is perfect and no one elses.

Projecting and making false assumptions again. Re-read that paragraph and take it within context. I am talking about what the epitome of the experience is for me based upon my 40+ years of playing different games of different types and taking stabs at creating content of my own. I did not realize I would have to spell it out for someone like I do my 2 year old daughter, but if it makes you feel better then here we go:

That is the epitome of the gaming experience, for me

 

You haven't even done a swtor raid solo yet, that's been balanced for solo play, but you're declaring that it's part of the perfect game. You should pull your head out of whatever stinky place you keep it in.

Well my fine sir, I do not have to play solo SWTOR raids to know what I would like to see and enjoy based (again) upon my 40+ years of playing (and enjoying) games. It seems I am not the one with their head buried in a dank, dark place here, my friend. I am quite capable of knowing what I would like to see that would make me enjoy a game more, as long as ... wait for it ... the content is done correctly.

 

That attitude is all over the MMO market, and it is always wrong. "This new MMO is gonna be so great". "This new MMO is gonna be the WoW killer". They always flop and fail, because the expectations of the hypothetical never pan out in the gaming industry.

Which has absolutely zero bearing on this discussion at hand. Once again, I would find having a solo option for any type of group based content an exciting option to play through because I enjoy such challenges. The content, of course, needs to be done correctly. If a piece of content can be created that is both fun and challenging to play through in a group, then most certainly that same content can be made to be fun and challenging to play through as a solo player. Obviously, depending on the content, there would have to be variances to allow for solo mechanics (such as enabling one person to push four different buttons to open a door instead of having four people each push one of those buttons in a group setting, for instance).

 

The majority of people here, are telling you, that solo modes for flashpoints are boring. They're telling you that based on actual experience. It's easy to see solo mode operations would be the same way. But you, you've hyped up the Solo mode Raids so much in your head that you're not looking at the reality of how they would actually end up.

Who is the majority. I see a nice balance here of people who desire for group content to not have a solo option as well as people who would like to see that option. I have seen people who do find the current solo content boring. I have also seen people who find it quite exciting. Seems to me that those who find it boring now will find future such content, if created, boring as well, and those that don't won't find it boring. I have hyped up nothing in my head. In fact I was one of the few gamers who had realistic expectations of this game prior to and during launch. Hence, why I repeatedly use the phrase "done correctly." BioWare, for all their faults that I hold against the team, has and can do many things correctly. I believe, with the proper guidance and forethought that they can also make solo operations something fun, challenging and exciting to participate in. If they don't, then that's on BioWare and I will take them to task for it. At the end of the day, it will still have no bearing on the current quality of the the operations as they are now.

 

Dale Carnegie once wrote that no one in the history of the world has ever won an argument. He was right, because people get too defensive. I know that no amount of logic, experience, or common sense will convince you how stupid solo raiding will be. But for everyone else, reading that your "epitome of the gaming experience" is based on nothing but conjecture and self induced hype, would see exactly how meritless your arguments have been.

Arguments can be won with facts. I have both won arguments doing so and have changed my positions/opinions in others when presented with facts. Mr. Carnegie can teach a lot about the process, but one must take it all within the context.

 

Solo raiding is an objectively stupid idea.

Talking about conjecture and a meritless argument ...

 

But who knows. There is hope. Bioware has done some stupid things. I'm out. Good luck to you.

Indeed they have. A great many stupid things in my opinion. However, on the flip side, they have also done a great many good things. Hence why we are still here and able to talk about and play SWTOR. Having the ability to solo Operations can be another good thing about this game, but it's all in the hands of BioWare to make sure it is done correctly to ensure an engaging, challenging, and exciting experience. There is no foregone conclusion either way. They can make it great or they can make it terrible. Either way, nothing is certain if it is not made at all.

 

Have a good day, my friend. Enjoy your time in the game!

 

************************************************** **********************************************

You can take any game with any type of group-only raid-equivalent content and make it perfectly feasible to be equally challenging to a solo player. Having that option is neither a detriment to group play nor to player skill.

Edited March 15, 2017 by BJWyler

[light_senshi]

. But there are still plenty quality players queuing up. Kick and ignore the people giving you headaches and you'll be fine.

 

You've hit on a very good reason for having a story mode for all the flashpoints. Not everyone has gear, or the twitch reflexes of a teenager, or the time/interest to watch other people play. It would let someone actually experience the flashpoint content...without the constant whining of "spacebar".

 

I think Ops are just fine the way they are.

[ImmortalLowlife]

Which fail repeatedly for many people. I have seen this across games that have this issue to one degree or another that have bigger population than SWTOR does. Yeah we are all grown ups (or at least should be), and that comes with the understanding that - shock of shocks, the system still fails a great many people.

 

This is the 21st Century of gaming and particularly of MMOs. Gone are those glory days of Ultima Online. Sad in a way, but the MMO genre is much better off for it. Like the gaming industry and like the gaming community along with it, the MMO genre has grown up and has begun to mature. With that comes the realization that making things accessible to a casual or solo player actually helps the industry and genre grow and get better. MMOs would be a thing of the past had not the paradigm shift occur over the last decade to encompass all player types and the changes that have occurred in gaming society during the course of this time.

 

Making an MMO 100% soloable is not a detriment, but a boon to the genre and the industry as a whole. Being able to pick up a play a game no matter the time of day or no matter how much time to play and go and experience whatever content a player wants to experience at that particular moment is the saving grace of this genre and the industry as a whole. A game that can embrace and make all of its content that is both challenging and engaging both in a group setting as in a solo setting is a game that has a long future in this industry.

 

I for one relish an opportunity to beat whatever raid content a game has to offer with my fellow friends and guildmates, and then to do so in a solo setting as well, with no one there to help me but myself. That is the epitome of the gaming experience.

 

************************************************** **********************************************

You can take any game with any type of group-only raid-equivalent content and make it perfectly feasible to be equally challenging to a solo player. Having that option is neither a detriment to group play nor to player skill.

 

 

For what it's worth, I completely agree with everything you've said. I say this as someone who's been gaming for 35+ years.

 

I love the solo FP's and play them regularly. I'm good enough that I don't even need the GodBot to finish em, but "life" may cause me to be afk at any given point. I also enjoy that final Revan fight in SoR solo mode. (Yea....I know.... it's not a "real" OP) But I still enjoy it.

 

That's just my 2 cents tho.

[Icykill_]

I've read some of the 120 posts. But the reality is that swtor was never designed or made as a Solo game, it's an MMO.

Population is an issue because populations on some servers have dropped, which can make some content hard to do.

But that is another issue and is being discussed vigorously in another thread on how and why to fix it it,

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=915434

 

Swtor is an MMO first and foremost, the worst thing Bioware did to the game was trying to make it appealing to the solo only crowd who didn't play MMOs. It's obvious they did it because they wanted to make a quick dollar using the hype of the resurgence of SW movies as there was no other game out at the time to do so.

By trying to cater only for the solo players and not to everyone, they drove away a lot of MMO players, which I don't think they even considered. While the story was good and refreshing, it was only ever going to be a short term money maker because people could run through it fast and then had to wait a month for more and you were able to play the content together with friends.That meant that lots of people would unsub inbetween. But if they had spent all the time and money to put more quality content into the MMO part of the game and allowed multiplayer progression through the story their core players would stayed subbed constantly.

 

By ignoring their core players all they did was drive them from the game. The SW movie fans who came for the story were mostly fly by night subscribers (except for some hardcore subscribers) and those people left the game each month or didn't come back for months, if at all. Bioware really didn't consider the long term affects. I think they thought the core MMO players would just stick around for rehashed old content. They were sadly mistaken and the first big max exodus of MMO people was 4.0, but the data at the time showed they had more subscribers by taking advantage of the movie hype fans, so their data was skewed and only at the top of the spike when they reported it. They have lost a lot of long term stable revenue in favour of a volatile mix of revenue.

 

Now 5.0 has been released and it's even worse. They didn't learn their lesson from 4.0, they exacerbated it by making it even more solo. You can't do any of the story in 4.0 or 5.0 as a multiplayer progression for both. You end up having to go your seperate ways and can only do multiplayer content outside of the story. Add to the abortion that is RNG CXP gearing to supposedly make the solo players stay subbed so they can "also get the best gear" (which they don't need for story) and make the MMO players grind to make them play longer and we have mass exodus number 2. But this time the hype didn't last from Rogue 1 and they are in and even worse position.

 

I get why the solo players Bioware went out of their way to attract want to be able to solo everything. Bioware have given the impression this is a solo game and not an MMO, so it's not really the solo players fault. The problem with that is the game is still an MMO first and foremost. If Bioware keep catering to the solo crowd they will be left with a solo crowd because the remaining MMO players will leave. That is the last remaining stable revenue source for the game and if the MMO people leave, there aren't enough solo players to prop the game up so they can have all their wonderful stories and expansion movies, which probably cost more to make than the content. Seriously, I think just about everyone would agree we'd prefer less money spent on flashy movies and more spent on better content, wether it's MMO or solo.

 

Bioware are now in a bad position, if they cater for either community more than the other, they alienate people. This is something they already knew for before 4.0 when they used to alienate the PvP people and give the OPs people the most attention. But if they ever did anything for the pvp community, the OPs people went ballistic. They've alienated the GSF people even worse, I don't even know why they bothered implementing it if they weren't going to support it.

So now what ever they do is going to piss off a lot of people. The question is how many people will they piss off. If they were smart they would go with the lesser amount of people. Or they'll try and do their new balancing act and piss everyone off at once, ie RNG CXP.

 

What attracted me to the game is the MMO feature. It allowed me to socialise with my friends and my partner and we would spend nights playing content together. Now we hardly ever play together because we can't play the story together and all of our RL friends have quit and our online friends we'd had for years have moved onto other MMO games.

 

So I'll finish this long post (sorry for that) by saying if you want to play a solo game, you really should pick another and not ask for this one to be made even more solo. This game is an MMO and should be encouraging you to play with other people, if they cant get solo players to do that, they aren't doing their job properly. This is harsh, but it is the reality of MMO design and I think they need to completely change the games path back again to being a MMO model and stop catering for every solo player request.

[perotta]

I've read some of the 120 posts. But the reality is that swtor was never designed or made as a Solo game, it's an MMO.

Population is an issue because populations on some servers have dropped, which can make some content hard to do.

But that is another issue and is being discussed vigorously in another thread on how and why to fix it it,

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=915434

 

Swtor is an MMO first and foremost, the worst thing Bioware did to the game was trying to make it appealing to the solo only crowd who didn't play MMOs. It's obvious they did it because they wanted to make a quick dollar using the hype of the resurgence of SW movies as there was no other game out at the time to do so.

By trying to cater only for the solo players and not to everyone, they drove away a lot of MMO players, which I don't think they even considered. While the story was good and refreshing, it was only ever going to be a short term money maker because people could run through it fast and then had to wait a month for more and you were able to play the content together with friends.That meant that lots of people would unsub inbetween. But if they had spent all the time and money to put more quality content into the MMO part of the game and allowed multiplayer progression through the story their core players would stayed subbed constantly.

 

By ignoring their core players all they did was drive them from the game. The SW movie fans who came for the story were mostly fly by night subscribers (except for some hardcore subscribers) and those people left the game each month or didn't come back for months, if at all. Bioware really didn't consider the long term affects. I think they thought the core MMO players would just stick around for rehashed old content. They were sadly mistaken and the first big max exodus of MMO people was 4.0, but the data at the time showed they had more subscribers by taking advantage of the movie hype fans, so their data was skewed and only at the top of the spike when they reported it. They have lost a lot of long term stable revenue in favour of a volatile mix of revenue.

 

Now 5.0 has been released and it's even worse. They didn't learn their lesson from 4.0, they exacerbated it by making it even more solo. You can't do any of the story in 4.0 or 5.0 as a multiplayer progression for both. You end up having to go your seperate ways and can only do multiplayer content outside of the story. Add to the abortion that is RNG CXP gearing to supposedly make the solo players stay subbed so they can "also get the best gear" (which they don't need for story) and make the MMO players grind to make them play longer and we have mass exodus number 2. But this time the hype didn't last from Rogue 1 and they are in and even worse position.

 

I get why the solo players Bioware went out of their way to attract want to be able to solo everything. Bioware have given the impression this is a solo game and not an MMO, so it's not really the solo players fault. The problem with that is the game is still an MMO first and foremost. If Bioware keep catering to the solo crowd they will be left with a solo crowd because the remaining MMO players will leave. That is the last remaining stable revenue source for the game and if the MMO people leave, there aren't enough solo players to prop the game up so they can have all their wonderful stories and expansion movies, which probably cost more to make than the content. Seriously, I think just about everyone would agree we'd prefer less money spent on flashy movies and more spent on better content, wether it's MMO or solo.

 

Bioware are now in a bad position, if they cater for either community more than the other, they alienate people. This is something they already knew for before 4.0 when they used to alienate the PvP people and give the OPs people the most attention. But if they ever did anything for the pvp community, the OPs people went ballistic. They've alienated the GSF people even worse, I don't even know why they bothered implementing it if they weren't going to support it.

So now what ever they do is going to piss off a lot of people. The question is how many people will they piss off. If they were smart they would go with the lesser amount of people. Or they'll try and do their new balancing act and piss everyone off at once, ie RNG CXP.

 

What attracted me to the game is the MMO feature. It allowed me to socialise with my friends and my partner and we would spend nights playing content together. Now we hardly ever play together because we can't play the story together and all of our RL friends have quit and our online friends we'd had for years have moved onto other MMO games.

 

So I'll finish this long post (sorry for that) by saying if you want to play a solo game, you really should pick another and not ask for this one to be made even more solo. This game is an MMO and should be encouraging you to play with other people, if they cant get solo players to do that, they aren't doing their job properly. This is harsh, but it is the reality of MMO design and I think they need to completely change the games path back again to being a MMO model and stop catering for every solo player request.

 

SWTOR was always different from other MMOs. It always had a sizeable portion of a game that was soloable. It was designed differently. Bioware didn't start catering to solo players - they just ignored and screwed up everyone. They invented some mythical player and started catering to him. They introduced solo content no one asked them for - KotFE and KotET - which was mediocre, poorly written and had zero replayability; they introduced the unnecessary GC system that no one asked them to - not solo players, not group players - which again, screwed up everyone. I don't see how Bioware catered to solo players. I am a solo player; in my opinion they never bothered catering to me much. It's not just the solo story segments that appealed to me in the original game. It was also the exploration, the combat, the daily areas, crafting, space battles, hell, even equipping my toons.

 

I never asked for solo FPs or solo OPs before, because there was something else to do. Now? Bioware seems content on ignoring the playerbase, solo and group players alike. They introduced solo FPs, so there is a chance of getting solo OPs. Solo OPs are definitely not on my top priority list but it's something at least. Because our chances of getting new, good story content or a new planet with enough space for exploration? Practically non-existent. They are giving a daily area with 5.2 update but it remains to be seen if it's any good at all. I personally doubt it's gonna salvage the situation. And the new story content may turn me off the game even more if the quality of writing remains as low as it is.

[MichaelStuart]

I would support having a Solo options for every mode, sometimes you just can't get a group together.

It's easy to say find a good guild, but even the best guilds are not always available. So the only options become wait until enough people are available (which may not be a option if you only have time to play at odd hours) or give up and maybe go do something else.

Its true that even if enough players are available some people would still perfer to play by themselves. Excluding them from experiencing content just in some vain attempt to increase group participation will just create a bad atmosphere.

 

Solo options aside I also think that group options need some work.

 

First, I believe the Shroud and Dreadseed missions should be turned into Uprisings and added to Goupe Finder, with some of the puzzles removed on story mode (Veteran and Master mode retaining them) and rewarding less because those missons because are actually pretty short if you know what your doing.

 

Second, I believe Tactically Operations with temp role abilites and no Lockouts should be created. I know this would please neither raiders or solo players, but it would make it easier to find enough players to run the content and also allow something to pactice Operaitions.

Edited March 15, 2017 by MichaelStuart

[BJWyler]

What attracted me to the game is the MMO feature. It allowed me to socialise with my friends and my partner and we would spend nights playing content together. Now we hardly ever play together because we can't play the story together and all of our RL friends have quit and our online friends we'd had for years have moved onto other MMO games.

 

So I'll finish this long post (sorry for that) by saying if you want to play a solo game, you really should pick another and not ask for this one to be made even more solo. This game is an MMO and should be encouraging you to play with other people, if they cant get solo players to do that, they aren't doing their job properly. This is harsh, but it is the reality of MMO design and I think they need to completely change the games path back again to being a MMO model and stop catering for every solo player request.

 

A few things brought me to this game - first and foremost, it was a Star Wars MMO being created and I wanted to see how it would come along. Second was the story aspect of the game. I think BioWare did a fine job creating a balance between story and MMO back in the vanilla days of the game. Up through 2.0, the game only got better. It started its downhill slide from there.

 

It's not necessarily because BioWare catered to the solo crowd, but because they didn't really have the knowledge or manpower to properly manage and maintain an MMO post-launch in the modern era. And in this era, while an MMO should still maintain the group oriented feel and make it easy for people to play together (and reward them for doing so), the genre is cutting itself short by not also encompassing the solo player. Those that enjoy group content will always enjoy it and play it. Those that enjoy both doing things in a group and doing things solo will continue to do so. Those that enjoy playing a game solo, will also continue to do so, regardless of the "encouragement" of the game to group. Society has changed over the last couple of decades, and so has our consumption of entertainment. To hold on to the notion that an MMO must always be about grouping and forgo solo play is an antiquated one, and a notion that will eventually doom the genre if it should continue to hold fast to it.

 

There are far too many games out there nowadays that are vying for those discretionary funds. We have seen the MMO genre grow from a geeky niche product into a mainstream gaming phenomenon, in part because of the embracing of the casual and solo playstyles. These changes are not going to go away as the gaming industry and genre continues to mature and develop. In the end, we should be doing whatever we can to encourage people to come to the genre and to this game, not driving them away. BioWare has continually neglected the group aspect of this game since not long after 3.0. As a story oriented player, and one who enjoys both group play and solo play, 4.0 and 5.0 are dismal failures for me. While the group focused activities certainly need a shot of life in this game, we certainly should not, and can not, ignore the fact that allowing for more content to have an optional solo mode (as long as it is done correctly and not with a GodBot development), will only make this game healthier, it will make it more replayable, and encourage more people to play it - even if they wouldn't necessarily find themselves attracted to a more traditional MMO.

 

************************************************** **********************************************

You can take any game with any type of group-only raid-equivalent content and make it perfectly feasible to be equally challenging to a solo player. Having that option is neither a detriment to group play nor to player skill.