Why did you nerf Fractured Uprising CxP?

[IanArgent]

This will reduce the symptoms but not cure the patient. Players will simply move to another more beneficial uprising and chapter. All you have to do is make sure it takes longer for the easiest uprising/chapter and keep it in line with others regarding the reward. Nerfing the rewards only makes things go south. People will stop running those uprisings/chapters alltogether and move on to more rewarding things. If the rewards dont match the time involved, people get frustrated and stop playing until there is something in the game that is actually rewarding.

 

Or just make a timer for each chapter and uprising so people cant farm them. Also problem solved. Nerfing rewards isnt necessary!

 

And, how, pray tell, do you do that? Runtime for the chapters and Uprisings is (more or less) fixed. And, for that matter, having a range of content runtimes with approximately the same rate of rewards over time means people can play the content that fits your available time. As long as 1 run of an Uprising that takes 30 minutes returns the same CXP as 2 runs of an Uprising that runs 15 minutes, all is good.

[Schoock]

Hey folks,

 

Here is what happened. This change is intended, it just wasn't supposed to happen until 5.2. That is the reason it was missed in the patch notes.

 

-eric

 

If Git's too hard for you, try SVN.

[scardera]

typical bioware solution NERF. If you nerf the fast way to make CXP + remove the CXP event your game will start bleeding subs again. I dont know what make you think people love to grind for months but ....they don't Edited March 8, 2017 by scardera

[mike_carton]

If Git's too hard for you, try SVN.

 

I was thinking along similar lines. What large company doesn't know what code is going out to production servers? Do they have build managers? Release co-ordinators? Does this mean the current build didn't get QA tested, not all of it?

 

Some companies will take "Corrective Action" against the irresponsible individuals responsible for this sort of mishap.

Edited March 8, 2017 by mike_carton

[SGMRock]

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the team to get the scope of what Mission rewards are changing with 5.2. As some of you guessed in the thread, the following Missions are also having their CXP values reduced:

• KOTFE - Chapter 1
  
• KOTFE - Chapter 2
  

Those two along with Fractured are the only Mission rewards that are seeing major changes in 5.2. However, there are other Missions which are receiving minor tweaks as well. Just to set an expectation, beyond 5.2 we will continue to make Mission reward adjustments based on time spent vs reward. Our goal is quite simple, if you play a type of content, you should receive fairly consistent rewards across that content, difficulty, based on time spent.

 

Example: If you want to play story mode Uprisings, we want all Uprisings to give you relatively the same reward for the time you spend playing them. If an Uprising takes 5 minutes, it should give around 1/5th the reward of one that takes 25 minutes. Obviously that won't be exact, but you get the idea.

 

If I learn of any other CXP changes happening in 5.2 (or in the future) I will pass them on. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Wait so we find reasonable ways around this craptastic system you guys came up with to level our 16+ alts we have because lets face it you promoted alts, then you go and find whats good and nerf those things we found to do just to rub it in our faces. Why have I been so loyal to this game for 5 years subscribing is beyond me I have to keep forcing myself to not cancel my sub daily at this point. I feel like you guys are just trying to kill this game because BW or EA doesn't want it anymore. I want this game succeed but seriously, get your heads in the game.

Edited March 9, 2017 by SGMRock

[CaulderBenson]

So you want us to grind CXP and then you nerf one of the best ways to grind CXP?

 

Okay...makes sense...I guess?

Edited March 9, 2017 by CaulderBenson

[SGMRock]

Also its not like its easy to do The Hunt on Master mode either. I know a lot of people that can't even do it, you have to have some skill. so you are getting rewarded by doing it successfully in quick time because you have skill. Now lets nerf it because we don't want skilled players getting ahead.

[Bidli]

Ok so you, the mighty DEV team thinks that we got to get more CXP with more time spend doing something.

Also the more players participate in this, the more CXP we should get..

 

So two questions..

1. I've been recently wiping for about a month on Master and Blaster on 8HM and only on the last tuesday I finally killed it (got the achieve *yay*).. Thats 3hrs a day, 3 days a week, let me do the math real quick here. 9hrs per week, 4 weeks = 36 hrs. Assuming that EV weekly quest gives around 7k points and it took you about 1hr to clear the whole operation on SM, when can I expect my Ultra Hyper Super Cool CXP package granting me approximately 250.000 CXP points?

 

2. Talking about "the more players = the more CXP", have you considered granting double points for doing OPS in x16 modes? Possibly granting 2 packages instead of 1 as a personal drop?

 

 

Besides that, as many players said. You did some great decisions in the last two months. Increasing cxp gains, 5.2 changes etc. All good. Just PLEASE dont cut the branch you are sitting on right now..

 

*DISCLAIMER*

The first Q is apparently a joke. However the second is not.

*END of DISCLAIMER*

[Edyn]

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the team to get the scope of what Mission rewards are changing with 5.2. As some of you guessed in the thread, the following Missions are also having their CXP values reduced:

• KOTFE - Chapter 1
  
• KOTFE - Chapter 2
  

...

 

I wonder what BW considers to be the maximum level of contempt towards GC that they're willing to incur from the players before they'd consider alternative fixes, such as buffing all of the other Chapters rather than nerfing Chapters 1 and 2?

 

Why on earth do they keep implementing these types of "adjustments" that negatively impact player morale rather than boosting it?

 

BW has created a grind system for end game gear and items. Logically, players keep identifying the most efficient ways to grind, and so BW then systematically nerfs the most efficient ways to grind. In the long run, if BW continues to use this logic as they implement CXP "adjustments," this sort of nonsense isn't going to stop until every single activity in the game rewards 1 CXP.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Edyn

[Corraldh]

Stop hashtagging @SWTOR, please! Maybe I like playing the same thing over and over and over. That's my style of playing. Why target that and diminish my reward?

 

Whenever we like something, Bioware Austin changes it. Stop giving them ideas!

[LJ_Gibbs]

 

BW has created a grind system for end game gear and items. Logically, players keep identifying the most efficient ways to grind, and so BW then systematically nerfs the most efficient ways to grind..

 

THIS.... THIS... 1000 TIMES THIS!!!!!

 

If I want to play at 3 AM and be "efficient" because, you know... it's 3 in the by gawd A M..... I can't.

 

I am currently level 235. It's not like I have much more to go.... but this is a matter of PRINCIPLE!!!!

[Exocor]

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the team to get the scope of what Mission rewards are changing with 5.2. As some of you guessed in the thread, the following Missions are also having their CXP values reduced:

• KOTFE - Chapter 1
  
• KOTFE - Chapter 2
  

Those two along with Fractured are the only Mission rewards that are seeing major changes in 5.2. However, there are other Missions which are receiving minor tweaks as well. Just to set an expectation, beyond 5.2 we will continue to make Mission reward adjustments based on time spent vs reward. Our goal is quite simple, if you play a type of content, you should receive fairly consistent rewards across that content, difficulty, based on time spent.

 

Example: If you want to play story mode Uprisings, we want all Uprisings to give you relatively the same reward for the time you spend playing them. If an Uprising takes 5 minutes, it should give around 1/5th the reward of one that takes 25 minutes. Obviously that won't be exact, but you get the idea.

 

If I learn of any other CXP changes happening in 5.2 (or in the future) I will pass them on. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

In every case, Eric, the devs must keep in mind, that the "time spent" is not a static value, but based on the skills pf whoever does the specific activity. E.g. some raiding groups are able to do Timed Runs on Dread Palace or Dread Fortress. Beating 5 NiM-bosses in one hour should be one of the most rewarding sources of CXP. However, the players, who are able to do such things are just a minority. I would suggest, that you don't nerf cxp-rates because the top-level players are farming them in a ridiculous short amount of time. You should rather look into the average time needed.

I also hope, that the Devs may take a look into old ops. It is a bit unbalanced, that - for example - Nefra MM gives the same cxp-reward as Dread Guards MM - don't rebalance the ops-difficulty, but rebalance the cxp earned from each boss on an individual basis - "easy" bosses should give less cxp than extremly hard bosses.

 

So, all in all: Please don't nerf CXP-rates with a wooden hammer, but gently and bit by bit if necessary.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Exocor

[Severith]

And in that video they are running empire side. Which is easier for a non-stealth to run by reducing the packs you have to interact with. That doesn't happen in Rep side combined that its also a BH (or commando) which are currently more than a bit over the top.

 

Again, the argument is time spent vs reward. Basing it on mob kilss ensure everyone falls in nearly the same area vs what you showed to vastly different not just Rep vs Emp running chapters but class vs class. It's too much difference across the board of characters if were going to nerf things based off what takes time.

 

There is no way you cannot see the difference unless you spent too much time in a hole recently.

 

 

 

When it comes to designing a game that rewards you for risk or time spent for a reward then yes. You are wrong.

You will not run the Rep side and get the same experience without stealth. Most already know BH and Merc are a bit OP so using them as any metric is a bit off. We know stealthers can in general run all of them faster with little risk and a huge cut of time. Throwing in one non-stleather that is overturned right now just proves my point about risk vs reward.

 

Adjusting it so that all classes are a bit more even on the risk vs reward part is more than needed if bw design is indeed risk vs reward.

 

You, and a couple of others keep saying things like "stealthers can in general run all of them faster with little risk and a huge cut of time" but never, ever show proof of that. It's an assumption on your part, and the assumption is incorrect.

If it was so obvious, then there would be some concrete proof. Define huge, then link me a sin or a shadow run with a "huge cut of time".

 

As for the pub vs empire debate for chapter 2: The only difference is the second phase. The first and third phases are identical, other than the boss names and skins to reflect class stories. So lets look at how quickly phase 2 can get done.

 

6 minute 58 seconds speedrun of a gunslinger.

Phase two was done in 1:43 seconds.

 

6 minute 14 second speedrun of a shadow.

Phase two was done in 1 minute 20 seconds.

 

The supposed huge advantage here, that you're so certain exists, ended up being a 23 second difference. That's it. That's how long a non stealther ends up spending on a couple of extra trash mob pulls in phase 2 on pub side.

 

23 seconds is not huge. You implied I was in a hole. I think you dug a hole with your false assumptions, and threw yourself in there, and then started disagreeing with everyone who didn't throw themselves in the hole with you.

 

Submit some actual facts, or examples to back up your opinions. Otherwise, your opinions are nothing but the bias of someone who didn't bother to look into the facts.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Severith

[Zasszz]

And, how, pray tell, do you do that? Runtime for the chapters and Uprisings is (more or less) fixed. And, for that matter, having a range of content runtimes with approximately the same rate of rewards over time means people can play the content that fits your available time. As long as 1 run of an Uprising that takes 30 minutes returns the same CXP as 2 runs of an Uprising that runs 15 minutes, all is good.

Currently people can farm one flashpoint of uprising or chapter all day. Just select, queue and do it. Repeat. Profit.

 

Now what happens if they cant run them repeatedly but rather have to wait to run it again? Lets say something between 15-30minutes? In that time you can run several others but cant farm the easiest all day for the least amount of time spent and highest reward per hour gained.

[Flying-Brian]

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the team to get the scope of what Mission rewards are changing with 5.2. As some of you guessed in the thread, the following Missions are also having their CXP values reduced:

• KOTFE - Chapter 1
  
• KOTFE - Chapter 2
  

Those two along with Fractured are the only Mission rewards that are seeing major changes in 5.2. However, there are other Missions which are receiving minor tweaks as well. Just to set an expectation, beyond 5.2 we will continue to make Mission reward adjustments based on time spent vs reward. Our goal is quite simple, if you play a type of content, you should receive fairly consistent rewards across that content, difficulty, based on time spent.

 

Example: If you want to play story mode Uprisings, we want all Uprisings to give you relatively the same reward for the time you spend playing them. If an Uprising takes 5 minutes, it should give around 1/5th the reward of one that takes 25 minutes. Obviously that won't be exact, but you get the idea.

 

If I learn of any other CXP changes happening in 5.2 (or in the future) I will pass them on. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

With all the incoming and current changes to lower cxp levels in 5.2, the current boost needs to be left in the game. No one wants to go back to 2, 5, 10, 20cxp rewards for kills or mission content. And changing back to those ridiculously low levels is just an insult and kick to the nuts of the players.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Flying-Brian

[scardera]

we got it Eric you want your system to be a boring and long grindfest but dont expect me to pay for it after the CXP 350% im out

[SGMRock]

You, and a couple of others keep saying things like "stealthers can in general run all of them faster with little risk and a huge cut of time" but never, ever show proof of that. It's an assumption on your part, and the assumption is incorrect.

If it was so obvious, then there would be some concrete proof. Define huge, then link me a sin or a shadow run with a "huge cut of time".

 

yes i've done this just as fast on my Guardian DPS and Commando DPS as on my Shadow.

[Edyn]

THIS.... THIS... 1000 TIMES THIS!!!!!

 

If I want to play at 3 AM and be "efficient" because, you know... it's 3 in the by gawd A M..... I can't.

 

I am currently level 235. It's not like I have much more to go.... but this is a matter of PRINCIPLE!!!!

 

The fact that it appears like BW didn't know what the most efficient ways to grind CXP were until the players began identifying/"exploiting" them is kind of disturbing.

 

BW's CXP-nerfing logic just doesn't make sense to me (probably because I can't see their number$,) and if they continue full speed, I can't see them stopping until everything nets 1 CXP.

[Exly]

Absolutely, good question. We certainly will lean into buffing over nerfing, where possible. In the case of Fractured and KotFE Chapter 1 and 2 though they are not only outperforming other Uprisings and Chapters, but also other content as well. It is still our intention that large group and difficult content (such as Operations and Warzones) are the best source of CXP.

 

If someone can do something by themselves (or in small groups), with minimal challenge, and receive more rewards than something like an Operation, you should expect it is gonna get adjusted.

 

Again, on the inverse, if you discover something that is not rewarding for its time spent, let us know! If "no one is running X Uprising" cause it is not worth the time, we will almost certainly buff it to bring it in line and feel rewarding.

 

-eric

 

-eric,

 

The problem is that the system itself is flawed. The amount of grinding that is needed to get even one alt to level 300 makes me feel that I am just fooling my self if I believe that I can get more that one or two to level 500 before 6.0 launches.

 

If you want me to feel that the game is rewarding, you need to make it so that I can play my alts, and can have an equal chance of getting them into the best gear that the game has to offer so that I can choose which of them I am in the mood to play when doing harder content.

 

As things stand today, the galactic command gear grind is way too long, and is by it's very nature a very unrewarding system. If you want to make it seem less bad, you need to at least double, or triple the current rate that I can earn cxp. Ideally I would like to get from level 1 to level 300 in about 20 hours, but quicker than that would be even better.

 

Until then just remember that all aspects of the game currently give out too little cxp, and everything needs to be buffed to make the galactic command system seem less frustrating.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Exly

[Halinalle]

1. I've been recently wiping for about a month on Master and Blaster on 8HM and only on the last tuesday I finally killed it (got the achieve *yay*).. Thats 3hrs a day, 3 days a week, let me do the math real quick here. 9hrs per week, 4 weeks = 36 hrs. Assuming that EV weekly quest gives around 7k points and it took you about 1hr to clear the whole operation on SM, when can I expect my Ultra Hyper Super Cool CXP package granting me approximately 250.000 CXP points?

 

I've tried to get TfB and DP done in SM since January last year, Ravagers in SM since June last year. But since players think that I'm undergeared to do it without achievements (= undergeared is ok if you have achievements?). By your logic, should I get instant rank 300 on all of my characters?

Edited March 9, 2017 by Halinalle

[adayamothrawn]

This point has been made ad nauseum, but it bears repetition: The current grind is only bearable because of the 350% event. I'm still extremely pissed at all the worthless gear, weapons and stuff I get thrown at me, but the rate of acquiring crates is acceptable atm.

 

Do you really think people will jump for joy if wzs dole out 500 cxp again? And we have very little reason to believe that the adjusted drop rates will make the grind bearable after the event ends.

[scardera]

This point has been made ad nauseum, but it bears repetition: The current grind is only bearable because of the 350% event. I'm still extremely pissed at all the worthless gear, weapons and stuff I get thrown at me, but the rate of acquiring crates is acceptable atm.

 

Do you really think people will jump for joy if wzs dole out 500 cxp again? And we have very little reason to believe that the adjusted drop rates will make the grind bearable after the event ends.

 

we know what Bioware adjustement look like nerf something 200% when the players complain buff 10%

Edited March 9, 2017 by scardera

[Damask_Rose]

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the team to get the scope of what Mission rewards are changing with 5.2. As some of you guessed in the thread, the following Missions are also having their CXP values reduced:

• KOTFE - Chapter 1
  
• KOTFE - Chapter 2
  

Those two along with Fractured are the only Mission rewards that are seeing major changes in 5.2. However, there are other Missions which are receiving minor tweaks as well. Just to set an expectation, beyond 5.2 we will continue to make Mission reward adjustments based on time spent vs reward. Our goal is quite simple, if you play a type of content, you should receive fairly consistent rewards across that content, difficulty, based on time spent.

 

Example: If you want to play story mode Uprisings, we want all Uprisings to give you relatively the same reward for the time you spend playing them. If an Uprising takes 5 minutes, it should give around 1/5th the reward of one that takes 25 minutes. Obviously that won't be exact, but you get the idea.

 

If I learn of any other CXP changes happening in 5.2 (or in the future) I will pass them on. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

If you are genuinely trying to balance cxp rewards for time invested you need to buff up all non KotFE/ET story missions since the cxp is laughable for the time invested. By your reasoning with Uprisings, a quest that takes as long to complete as a KotFE chapter should net similar cxp, not 1/10th of it. And please base story rewards around actually playing the story as intended, not stealthy, spacebarring farmers.

[Lakemine]

You keep talking about large group content, does this mean that 5.2 will see server mergers to allow people to play the large group content.

 

I spent an hour queuing for a story uprising, every time a group does form its 4 dps, often one will quit out or someone will let the timer run down. Then finally getting 4 dps that are stupid enough to try it (after all it might be trial and error) we get to the beach invasion and it bugs out as after the first drop ship no more come and we end up having to exit out.

 

If you are going to make it so the ideal way of getting GC is through large group content, what are you doing to make this viable, given you have spent the last few months driving subscribers away and focusing on the cartel market.

 

As much as I agree with you and want server mergers also, they said at back in Jan that there will be no server mergers for at least a year and then they will look at the state of the game and see if its a good choice then. (Think it was a cantina someone asked that? Either a cantina or livestream, in either Dec or Jan, I know it was near the beginning of the year) Imo, the time to do server mergers was 2 years ago, the population has continued to decline since then, and its annoying having to wait for 6 hours for a flashpoint pop on a Saturday afternoon. Imo, what I did was find a big guild and join up with them, and then use the guild chat as a "fleet chat" for LFG. Worked for me. (Sadly I left because of other....things.....and then real life, so trying to find another one, still have lots of group content achievements to get, and 10% more OPs achievements, I'm at 90% )

[CloudCastle]

They need to be about as high as the current rate.

Despite the RNG, it's actually kinda fun at this rate.

 

I can't say I love it, but I am also not dissatisfied by it either.

If it were to become more of a grind like it was at the old rates, on the other hand, I would probably give up on it altogether.

 

This is basically how I feel. I can deal now. I'm not interested if it becomes even more of a grind though.