Is the game Empire-biased?

[Lium]

better class stories- I disagree, BH is the worst overall story and Agent is the most overrated. Sith Inquisitor is the best one because its so nonsensical and bonkers that its can only be interpreted as a comedy. Im not convinced that story isnt actually meant to be a Spaceballs tie-in (also noteworthy that the imperial stories have most of my least favorite companions)

 

Not to mention that outside the Bounty Hunter I hate the voice acting for the Imperial main characters, Republic side they sound like people talking the way people talk, Imperial side they sound like parodies of themselves. Also the dialog options are way more cringe with the empire. instead of "A-serious response, B- an even response, C- snarky response" the imperial responses are "A- Im evil, B-Do you realize how cool i am? or C- Literally a Linkin Park lyric." which pretty much loses its appeal after you hit the second planet.

 

better planet stories- nah, its about even money on either side to me. about as many good as bad. At least as the republic you spend most of the stories winning the war and taking back planets.

 

better looking gear- if by "better looking gear" you mean "looks like the mcdonald land gang cosplaying the Rocky Horror Picture Show" then yes, its better looking. I think imperial gear looks like BDSM Scuba gear personally and would immediately call into question anyone wearing that stuff who thinks "Man, Im really pulling this look off!"

 

better players and guilds- thats more a server to server thing, but for the most part its more that the empire just has more players, which doesnt really translate to better.

No idea how I missed this post. If this forum had a like button I'd wear it out on this one.

[Ralei]

No idea how I missed this post. If this forum had a like button I'd wear it out on this one.

 

heh and I disagree with almost everything in that post. *DOWNVOTE*

[Sarova]

Kai Zykken Bonus Chapter: CONFIRMED!

This would be great. But only if he rides his

everywhere. And gets lightninged or forced choke at least twice!

[Aeneas_Falco]

I tend to prefer the Jedi over the Sith (though I do like my Sith characters), but like the Empire non force users over Republic-aligned.

 

Jedi Knight > Sith Warrior (although I love both)

 

Jedi Consular > Sith Inquisitor

 

Agent > Commando

 

Bounty Hunter > Smuggler

[stoopicus]

I got tired very fast of the companions that don't speak basic.

 

The problem is some of them (well, Khem Val anyway) have some of the best dialogue in the entire game. Khem is hilarious in his companion story.

Edited March 3, 2017 by stoopicus

[ImmortalLowlife]

 

Exactly!

[mike_carton]

The problem is some of them (well, Khem Val anyway) have some of the best dialogue in the entire game. Khem is hilarious in his companion story.

 

I did complete the entire dialog chain and mission for Khem Val. It is funny because of the delicate situation the Dashade got himself into with a lady.

[Johnycat]

Luke: "is the dark side stronger?"

 

Yoda: "No, no, no... quicker, easier, more seductive."

 

Cheers,

J

Edited March 3, 2017 by Johnycat

[light_senshi]

There's a significant difference not only between the Republic and Empire but also how the characters begin their journey with us.

 

As you can guess, the Republic is US...it's our form of government after all. Each character is presented as the "Cream of the Crop". The Trooper is at or near the top of his/her military academy as well as special forces: this is in addition being assigned to one of the most elite infantry squads in service. The Consular is "stronger at four years old" than the Jedi Master training him/her was at the age of 15: so a force user stronger than some jedi masters before arriving on Tython. The Jedi Knight states: "It's easy to excel when you're trained by the best" and defeats what effectively amounts to a fully trained force user barely after arriving on Tython. The Smuggler starts with his/her own ship...and what we can perceive to be a good reputation...based on the reason for coming to Ord Mantell in the first place.

 

In converse, the Imperial stories are pretty much the opposite. The Inquisitor starts off as a slave and is clearly expected to be nothing more than fodder for the "real" sith in training....as noted not only by the dialogue at the end of the Korriban class quest line but also by how he/she keeps getting impossible tasks to compete: something that continues all the way to Corellia. The Warrior, while from a talented and prestigious Sith family, is also set up for failure. In many respects, what happens is equivalent to a raw recruit going not to basic training but rather being handed a rifle and dropped in a war zone. The Agent seems to be on his/her first official assignment right out of training while the Bounty Hunter has the deck stacked against him/her from day one.

[leehambly]

Personally, my view on this - most of what people are discussing here is merely a matter of personal taste (story, vanity gear)... however, actual game play is... well, lets just say, I don't know, two friends Annie and Luke each roll a character and spend a few hours playing their respective factions... Annie is an Imperial and Luke is a Republic player.

 

After 6 hours, which has the higher level? Anyone that has the legendary achievement will be able to answer this without even thinking.

 

Given that Korriban fits into roughly a single zone of Tython (so much running) and yet weirdly has more repeatable content (2 heroics!!) it will be no surprise that well, Imps prolly win the Jedi/Sith race with that one. Lets not forget though that the datacrons on Korriban are where exactly? Oh, that's right.. in the players path and viewable from the taxi rides that you have to take. Whereas Tython's are where? Oh that's right... crawling through holes in walls and hidden tunnels... yep... seems fair.

 

Oh but surely the Ord Mantell and Hutta sort that out? Err... well, its certainly less clear... but realistically, its much the same. They are at least somewhat closer to each other, but Imperial side yet again is more compact and more laid out for the player. Still 4 Imp heroics versus 3 Rep heroics... ok, the Rep heroics are basically all in the same place, which is nice... but then 3 of the Imperial ones are in the same place, so they do just get a free one... same as Korriban.

 

Now, ok, this is not hugely significant... but it is indicative of the minor biases that all add up.

 

Lets look at the heroic moment for a second... 4 imp abilities, 4 rep abilities. 3 of the 4 imp abilities are top of the set... THAT massive long aoe, a long coe, a stunning DOT channel and another DOT channel... versus sticky bomb, jedi smash, gravelly rock and a kick. The jedi smash comes in just above the sorc lightning merely due to its aoe... situational improvement only. This isn't opinion... Imp based players WILL get these abilities before Rep based players. And this isn't insignificant.. I know a lot of players rarely use the heroic moment (idk why either!) but the Operative and Warrior abilities, alone, are capable of taking out basically any boss you are likely to come across while levelling. Also in OWPVP, it was a rude awakening for wannabe gankers. All these little things...

 

Here's an interesting one... and some of you newish players might not know this either... How many republic ONLY players even know about the free player bikes that the Imperial players get to use on Nar Shaddaa... I'm guessing one or two will have missed that beauty. Ok, sure, bikes are nothing now... you get them way before NS... but really DEVs, you choose to give free qol transport to only one faction??? *** is that about?

 

Like I say.. its all adds up... and those minor differences means on the whole, imho the average casual Imp character will be better geared and set up than the average casual Republic character given the same playing time.

 

Its not even an opinion... just count the quests in your achieves for each planet, count how many heroics (which are only complete-able once per day) there are for each faction on each planet. Planet by planet, sometimes its a draw, but when it isn't, there is NOT A SINGLE PLANET where Republic has more. Go check.

 

Of course, you could throw in the "mistakes", too, the benefit of which always seem to also fall on the Imperial side... like the admission, which seemed to pass most of the player base by without so much as a whimper (although I notice it has been mentioned here - glad someone remembers this stuff!), that the Sorc bubble had a different (read as superior) effect than the Sage bubble!!! I mean, WHAT?? That went on for something like 3 years! (Patch 3.2.1 if anyone is checking!) But that would be nit-picking.

 

That said, apart from ability imbalance (they are not mirrors, they are copies and poorly admin'ed copies - see above) and I am sure there are other imbalances between the "mirrors"... I'm looking closely at the moment at a specific sniper ability, any pvp'er will know it... its crucifying Republic teams currently... anyway, apart from any of that, once you hit Legendary status, finished your class companion storylines and completed all the datacrons (ie: gotten an end game character - no skimping!) then its all mostly much of a muchness, given you've also spent the time to fill out all the bits and pieces to rectify the imbalance, you know, given that an Imperial player would have to actively avoid clicking datacrons rather than seeking them out such as the Rep has to, etc... so its all good in the end... for the committed player, just not so much for the casuals... who plays this game again? Oh right. Oops.

 

===

Side note: Seriously, Eric, if you are reading this thread... then some sort of explanation for this stuff would be nice, we have been here enduring this for 5+ years, it would be nice to get a reason for it? Idk, your team felt that Imp players would mostly be children and require help?? Your customer profiling felt that Republic players would be more considered players and more "completion-ist" and hence you wanted to make it a deeper run through? These are both very valid reasons, certainly based on the population and also based on the experience from SWG (Rep = social and crafting, Imp = NGE rage quitters, hehehe I can be a snippy bugger at times)... do us a favour and get someone to answer it, for once, yeah?

Edited March 3, 2017 by leehambly

[Aeneas_Falco]

Personally, my view on this - most of what people are discussing here is merely a matter of personal taste (story, vanity gear)... however, actual game play is... well, lets just say, I don't know, two friends Annie and Luke each roll a character and spend a few hours playing their respective factions... Annie is an Imperial and Luke is a Republic player.

 

After 6 hours, which has the higher level? Anyone that has the legendary achievement will be able to answer this without even thinking.

 

Given that Korriban fits into roughly a single zone of Tython (so much running) and yet weirdly has more repeatable content (2 heroics!!) it will be no surprise that well, Imps prolly win the Jedi/Sith race with that one. Lets not forget though that the datacrons on Korriban are where exactly? Oh, that's right.. in the players path and viewable from the taxi rides that you have to take. Whereas Tython's are where? Oh that's right... crawling through holes in walls and hidden tunnels... yep... seems fair.

 

Oh but surely the Ord Mantell and Hutta sort that out? Err... well, its certainly less clear... but realistically, its much the same. They are at least somewhat closer to each other, but Imperial side yet again is more compact and more laid out for the player. Still 4 Imp heroics versus 3 Rep heroics... ok, the Rep heroics are basically all in the same place, which is nice... but then 3 of the Imperial ones are in the same place, so they do just get a free one... same as Korriban.

 

Now, ok, this is not hugely significant... but it is indicative of the minor biases that all add up.

 

Here's an interesting one... and some of you newish players might not know this either... How many republic ONLY players even know about the free player bikes that the Imperial players get to use on Nar Shaddaa... I'm guessing one or two will have missed that beauty. Ok, sure, bikes are nothing now... you get them way before NS... but really DEVs, you choose to give free qol transport to only one faction??? *** is that about?

 

Like I say.. its all adds up... and those minor differences means on the whole, imho the average casual Imp character will be better geared and set up than the average casual Republic character given the same playing time.

 

Its not even an opinion... just count the quests in your achieves for each planet, count how many heroics (which are only complete-able once per day) there are for each faction on each planet. Planet by planet, sometimes its a draw, but when it isn't, there is NOT A SINGLE PLANET where Republic has more. Go check.

 

Of course, you could throw in the "mistakes", too, the benefit of which always seem to also fall on the Imperial side... like the admission, which seemed to pass most of the player base by without so much as a whimper, that the Sorc bubble had a different (read as superior) effect than the Sage bubble!!! I mean, WHAT?? That went on for something like 3 years! (Patch 3.2.1 if anyone is checking!) But that would be nit-picking.

 

Good post.

 

Just to add to the above, in KoTFE/KOTET there were also more empire or dark side aligned companions than republic or light side.

[leehambly]

Good post.

 

Just to add to the above, in KoTFE/KOTET there were also more empire or dark side aligned companions than republic or light side.

 

Cheers, if I had the time I would be able to drag up all the other little differences over the years... I have just added a piece about the heroic moment, which is horribly biased,,, there are others, but its late and I'm struggling to think of them right now

[Heal-To-Full]

But here's my biggest problem with the empire stories: the Sith stories are all exactly the same regardless of how you play them. ... There's no real consequence and you know that ultimately, the empire loses the war.

On the flipside, every Republic class ends with defeating the Empire, from the emperor on down.

As you can guess, the Republic is US...it's our form of government after all. Each character is presented as the "Cream of the Crop".

In converse, the Imperial stories are pretty much the opposite. The Inquisitor starts off as a slave and is clearly expected to be nothing more than fodder for the "real" sith in training....

Well, yes.

 

To summarize, Republic stories are generally global and political, in the public politics sense. Empire stories are personal.

 

The Inquisitor's story especially is in no way about winning any war; it's all about you. The BH story is about you and your friends. Only the Agent and the Warrior temporarily get involved in trying to win a war - only to be betrayed and pulled back into a story about them again.

In contrast, even the Smuggler, a free criminal, gets sucked into being a piece in the war in the end.

 

And of course, while people like both kinds of stories, they rarely like both kinds equally.

[adormitul]

To be fair they do their fair share of damage to the republic the imp PC. For example the warrior eliminated the best generals of the empire or at least among the best and several powerful and dangerous jedi. On Corelia he was a beast doing huge amount of damage to the Republic.

The BH well did also huge amount of damage to the Republic and the jedi order by you know killing high rank members both in the jedi order and in the political structure of the Republic.

The IA and the SI did worse to the empire then the republic.

[DreadtechSavant]

Doing planetary heroics seems to go much faster on imp side.

 

I think the opposite, so much so I have decided to only play republic during the GR boost time. Probably just comes down to which side is preferred by individual players.

 

As mentioned though by other starter world do seem quicker on Imp side and have more heroics. Quicker is not always better though.

Edited March 3, 2017 by DreadtechSavant

[Radzkie]

Well, yes.

 

To summarize, Republic stories are generally global and political, in the public politics sense. Empire stories are personal.

 

I noticed this too.

 

Republic stories and characters bore me to tears. Nothings dryer to me than the run-of-the-mil hero. I suppose the scoundrel is sort of an exception, but barely.

 

I also found that the Empire stories had much more humor. Using Force Lightening on every person possible, beating the crap out of a snobby politician, cracking jokes at stoic Jedi's, etc. Though my humor is probably not shared with many. Every line the Dread Masters utter makes me laugh. It just feels more light hearted, personal, engaging, opposed to political and dry.

[stoopicus]

Just for a moment when I saw this title I though this was going to be a thread where the crazies come out and claim the Imp classes are stronger. Those are endlessly entertaining.

 

Some are visually cooler, though. Sorc is just much more fun and satisfying to play than Sage because lightning > pebbles. Mercs shoot rockets that look much cooler than the Mando Mortar, Etc.

 

The Imp stories - opinion varies but I'm not sure they are better *overall*, it's just that two of the top three are Imp. I't rate the actual story quality as roughly:

 

Agent > JK = Warrior > Smuggler = Inq > BH = Consular >> Trooper

 

The other reason things *seem* empire-biased is that a lot of the stories focus on how corrupt the Republic really is. Remember, the Republic is *not* the Leia-led Rebel Alliance. The Republic is the huge corrupt government that Palpatine eventually subverts. While it's totally clear that the Empire are the oppressive "bad guys", It's NOT clear at all that the Republic are "good guys", *regardless* of the fact that they think of themselves that way.

 

This comes out in a lot of class stories, and history, and I don't just mean Saresh. The Agent story is all over this and this is one of the reasons it's such a good story. Belsavis planetary arc does too, and so on. Ironically, the Trooper story touches on it more than the other pub stories; it's sad because it's such a bad story otherwise. Historically the Republic genocided the Sith when they were already beaten. They also did a typically Pubside shoddy job of it, but we're used to that in the warzones

 

I'd be pissed off if I were the Sith too.

 

That's one of the things I love about this game - it's very nuanced in how it treats the Empire and Republic.

Edited March 4, 2017 by stoopicus

[Cuiwe]

Just for a moment when I saw this title I though this was going to be a thread where the crazies come out and claim the Imp classes are stronger. Those are endlessly entertaining.

 

Some are visually cooler, though. Sorc is just much more fun and satisfying to play than Sage because lightning > pebbles. Mercs shoot rockets that look much cooler than the Mando Mortar, Etc.

 

The Imp stories - opinion varies but I'm not sure they are better *overall*, it's just that two of the top three are Imp. I't rate the actual story quality as roughly:

 

Agent > JK = Warrior > Smuggler = Inq > BH = Consular >> Trooper

 

The other reason things *seem* empire-biased is that a lot of the stories focus on how corrupt the Republic really is. Remember, the Republic is *not* the Leia-led Rebel Alliance. The Republic is the huge corrupt government that Palpatine eventually subverts. While it's totally clear that the Empire are the oppressive "bad guys", It's NOT clear at all that the Republic are "good guys", *regardless* of the fact that they think of themselves that way.

 

This comes out in a lot of class stories, and history, and I don't just mean Saresh. The Agent story is all over this and this is one of the reasons it's such a good story. Belsavis planetary arc does too, and so on. Ironically, the Trooper story touches on it more than the other pub stories; it's sad because it's such a bad story otherwise. Historically the Republic genocided the Sith when they were already beaten. They also did a typically Pubside shoddy job of it, but we're used to that in the warzones

 

I'd be pissed off if I were the Sith too.

 

That's one of the things I love about this game - it's very nuanced in how it treats the Empire and Republic.

 

Why does everyone focus so narrowly on TkTT vs Force Lightning? Let me put this way...endless, copy pasted lightnings(boring) vs a bunch of hadokens...which is better now?

 

See, this leads nowhere. It's just a preference.

 

And yes, I wholeheartedly prefer Republic. Just give me someone to help, something to fix etc. To hell with personal drama, so boring(unless ridiculous like Inquisitor). And here's what I believe is the objective ranking of stories:

 

Agent > Knight = Warrior >~ Smuggler > Inquisitor > Trooper >~ Consular > Bounty Hunter

 

If you notice something, it basically flip-flops. The 1st is an Imp, but so is the last...

[Lium]

Well, yes.

 

To summarize, Republic stories are generally global and political, in the public politics sense. Empire stories are personal.

 

The Inquisitor's story especially is in no way about winning any war; it's all about you. The BH story is about you and your friends. Only the Agent and the Warrior temporarily get involved in trying to win a war - only to be betrayed and pulled back into a story about them again.

In contrast, even the Smuggler, a free criminal, gets sucked into being a piece in the war in the end.

 

And of course, while people like both kinds of stories, they rarely like both kinds equally.

Well since this is Star WARS, I want to win the war.

 

I can see why a lot of people prefer the empire stories, though. Because like you said, they are all about you. Which if I'm being honest, is completely selfish. (i.e. human nature)

[stoopicus]

Why does everyone focus so narrowly on TkTT vs Force Lightning? Let me put this way...endless, copy pasted lightnings(boring) vs a bunch of hadokens...which is better now?

 

Because it looks SO MUCH BETTER!

 

J/K. Yeah, obviously subjective. Still, ouch

 

Agent > Knight = Warrior >~ Smuggler > Inquisitor > Trooper >~ Consular > Bounty Hunter

 

I could actually almost agree with that - except Trooper. Smuggler story is great, the best comic relief in the game. However, Trooper for me was an agonizing slog through a very boring vanilla military SF story, sort of like something David Drake would have phoned in to an agent on one of his bad days when extremely hung over or something.

 

One other thing - the VAs are way better on the Imp side in my experience. Female warrior and female agent are amazing, and male agent is pretty good. The only one I wasn't super impressed by is male BH.

 

On the other hand, male JK is so-so, not bad but kind of bland. Female JK sounds like a space librarian. Smuggler is perfect for both but male Consular sounds like a creepy guy driving an ice cream truck. Trooper sounded like an idiot (which was partially due to the dumbed down stereotypical lines they gave him - man I hate that class story.)

[Heal-To-Full]

I can see why a lot of people prefer the empire stories, though. Because like you said, they are all about you. Which if I'm being honest, is completely selfish. (i.e. human nature)

Just don't forget that Planescape: Torment, widely regarded as the best RPG ever, is even more about you - down to the point of who the antagonist is.

[bluehufsa]

Hello all,

So I've been thinking lately - and it seems that SWTOR is... kind of heavily biased towards Empire. Think for yourself - the Empire has better class stories, better planet stories, better looking gear, better players overall, Empire (as far as I know) wins all PvP matches, they have the best guilds, and so on... Why even play Republic? It doesn't have any cool stuff. Nothing is left for the poor Reps but scraps

Anyone else feels the same way? Do you think BioWare intentionally made the game better for the Empire players, or is it just a coincidence?

 

Nothing left but scraps???? I wouldnt call Zenith a "scrap" . I wouldnt give him for a 100 jaesas, as far as im concerned.

[Lium]

Just don't forget that Planescape: Torment, widely regarded as the best RPG ever, is even more about you - down to the point of who the antagonist is.

Entirely different context. Playing as The Nameless One, a man without a memory who cannot die and has no recollection of his immortality, is quite different than playing as a member of an imperial force trying to destroy their enemies.

 

Not to mention PS:T is a single-player RPG.

[Mithros]

I prefer the Republic classes and stories overall and think that the Republic has more "good" companions in total and more "good" companions in every class other than the BH.

 

I prefer the Republic looks overall, and that includes not only armor but also ships. The BH ship, as much as I enjoy that class (and it's the only Imperial class that I actually like), is the ugliest ship in the game. And not "so ugly it's cute", it's just ugly (I do like the interior, though).

 

I realize that many looks are usable by multiple classes, including CM gear that is usable across factions, but I think that most reasonable people would agree that most of those same CM armors are mostly built with a particular class in mind; That they "fit" some class(es) better than others.

 

I do have an issue with overly-large blaster cannons, especially considering that commandos, along with mercenaries, have been my favorite advanced class since launch, but they have made some smaller cannons available through the CM, so as long as I can create/buy/obtain mods to put into them to make them the equal of any stupid-sized cannons, I am okay with that.

They just need to keep on making cannon skins of all sizes, not just the "I may as well be carrying a tank around" style of cannon.

 

Now at launch there were some issues and these issues almost universally fell to favor the Imperials.

Over time, though, they have worked out a lot of those problems.

[Lo_Pan]

I would not know about the Empire being 'better' than the Republic, but I do know that the Developers and writers seem to hate ANY melee character right off of the bat. It seems that any force wielding character has been disadvantaged in favor of anyone playing ranged.