MichealR Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 DISCLAIMER: This is from a pvper's stand point, the parsing numbers from full 242 gear sitting still on a boss rarely comes into play in pvp. We all know Mercs/commandos are flavor of the month and insanely overpowered when facing 4v4. More often than not, when solo queing ranked I often face 3/4 mercs every single game. I even have screenshots where the 8 man wz are literally 7/8 merc in dps spec. MERCS NEED NERFED! yes i'll say the same thing 90% of the other pvpers are, that arent rerolling everytime there's a new FOTM. They survive longer than their tanking counterparts, do more dmg then all melee in pvp scenarios, and they have increased range and speed. They have no equal, there is no counter merc/commando and this absolutely ruins pvp when ONE class has this much pull on what every single wz/arena looks like. I'm not in favor of a big dps nerf across the board, however their procs that are giving blazing bolts basically on an infinite loop needs redesigned to only proc one time per 30 seconds, this gives 2 chances of use every 30 seconds rather than the infinite cast that it is. The shield that is refunding 75% of max health needs removed entirely, or moved into the vanguard/Pryo tree, this talent has no business being in a dps's arsenal, no other dps in the game has this kind of heal (yes sage/sorc can heal, merc/mando also has this same instant heal this is not what i'm talking about) but not one other class spec has a 75% get out of jail free card, they should either all have them or noone should have them period. I play a shadow, sorc, marauder, and commando. Yes, I said it I do play a commando, just because i wanted to know exactly what i was talking about when i came to complain. My commando out parses all my other characters in 230. My shadow and sorc being out dps'ed long shot and they're both 240+ w/ full augments. My marauder comes close in his 234 gear but its still no contest. There also absolutely needs to be a maximum of healers allowed into a warzone. My opinion this max should be 3 at the absolute most, however I'm in favor of just two. The healers requiring the small army they need to be killed is absolutely insane. My friend and I dueled just to test it out him (sorc heals and me as a shadow and then marauder) I could never kill him, I never even got close, once he went oom I'd get him down to 50% then he mana taps and boom another 10 minutes of my life wasted i'll never get back. And I know w/o a doubt people are going to say mark the healer and all gank them, this is all well and great in theory but often there are 3/4 imp healers on a team its near impossible to kill any of them, nor anyone else when this happens. I came to swtor for the pvp and story. I do not care at all about ops/heroics, at 242 gear there is then no point in doing ops. And yes i know teir 4 and 5 are releasing in 5.2 to give people another number to shoot at, but with pvp being in the state it is, from a pvpers' standpoint there is no point for me to continue to pay for and play this game. I have spent thounsands of dollars on this game across 3 accounts (mine, my wife's, my son's ) and w/ pvp being cespool that it is right now, you will be losing at least 45 dollars a month and my usual 4 purchases of the 39.99 cartel packs. I will be playing different games, and its all because you refuse to even look at class changes to balance things out. I'm not asking "Make my characters stronger??" I just want thing to be fair across the board so anyone has a chance to kill anyone with skill and gear, rather than the class determining your worth in warzones and arenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I think that after the huge nerf from about 5 years ago, it's deserved that commandos finally got some love again. You know, for years commandos were yelled out of ranked groups, because they lacked AoE lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksarcasm Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I killed a Merc a few times in a WZ last night. Me, a known buffoon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americanaussie Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I killed a Merc a few times in a WZ last night. Me, a known buffoon! I've killed one too but rarely on my own. I have seen some survive without breaking a sweat with 3 of us to one of them. We are wailing on him/her and they heal up faster than we can dps. I don't know what spec they were...but I'm guessing heals. After mins we got them down to 30% health then they did some god heal or stim and we're back up to 100. We all just kind of gave up at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jensaga Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 there are always going to be baddies, riding the fotm to warzone wins, allowing you to get a few easy merc kills now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew_Braxton Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) We all know Mercs/commandos are flavor of the month and insanely overpowered when facing 4v4. We do? I don't. "insanely overpowered" yet rankings on reddit and swtor put the at 7th on the dps rank list (middle of the road). MERCS NEED NERFED! yes i'll say the same thing 90% of the other pvpers are, that arent rerolling everytime there's a new FOTM. Evidence of the 90%? The ones who know their class and have been around for years know merc/commando has been on the short end of the stick as far as survivability goes. If you can't adjust and work around a 6 second ability then perhaps it's a LTP issue and not an overpower issue. I'm not in favor of a big dps nerf across the board, however their procs that are giving blazing bolts basically on an infinite loop needs redesigned to only proc one time per 30 seconds, this gives 2 chances of use every 30 seconds rather than the infinite cast that it is. infinite loop? I haven't experienced this. I see it every second or third gcd. My commando out parses all my other characters in 230. My shadow and sorc being out dps'ed long shot and they're both 240+ w/ full augments. My marauder com his 234 gear but its still no contest. If you can't outparse a merc/commando with marauder then you need to learn how to play the class or you selected the wrong spec pure and simple (LTP issue). You should outparse or be close with deception assassin. You probably won't with sorc because they are currently the underperforming dps class right now...but that doesn't mean you can't be competitive with them. Just because you are not competent with a class doesn't make another class OP. Perhaps you should review parse websites to learn a better rotation. Merc aresenal/Commando gunnery is only around 7th place on the dps list. I'm not asking "Make my characters stronger??" I just want thing to be fair across the board so anyone has a chance to kill anyone with skill and gear, rather than the class determining your worth in warzones and arenas Anyone does have a chance to kill anyone else. See other posts with how to adapt to the 5.0 changes. If you are lazy and just want to "leap and unload" your way to kills then a 6 second reflect every 2 minutes may seem overpowered. See other threads for suggestions from people who learned to adapt. If you can't avoid using single target attacks for 6 whole seconds every 2 minutes then it's a lost cause. Its quite visible. All the classes you mentioned have aoe attacks that the merc reflect doesn't work on. PVP is not may main interest, but I had no issues on marauder, operative, gunslinger, or merc in pvp. I think one tweak that might make some of the people that can't adjust happier would be to drop the self heal from the merc reflect shield. That would bring it inline with the other shield/reflects that the other classes have. Edited February 20, 2017 by Drew_Braxton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 tl;dr Even in 242 gear, well above bolster, I got roflstomped, nerf the winner!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) tl;dr Even in 242 gear, well above bolster, I got roflstomped, nerf the winner!! That is exactly what I read as well. Nothing new though.. these sort of over the top complaints have been common since the early days of DAoC, where this sort of roleplay as victim was an every day event for years, which spawned the meme "somebody just got rolled". Edited February 20, 2017 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mianera Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 This crap again? By this crap I don't mean in reference to yet another nerf mando/mercs thread. ...instead I mean another thread where a player thinks that developers are gonna give a damn about his opinion. You still don't get it? They have the EA marketing department setting all the ground rules on what takes priority. So obviously, player satisfaction isn't a priority(Source: EA voted worst company 2 years in a row, SWTOR won worst business model 2016). The main focus is to get you to subscribe and constantly buy cartel coins, always have been and certainly always will be. My evidence? Well, RNG is still there, the CXP boost isn't enough not even close, assembled component grind is a nightmare, still on 32bit engine, balance, bugs everywhere an-... honestly I could go on forever. It's not as if the developers don't know that these things are issues, of course they do. But fixing them isn't part of their job description even if they want to. Can someone remind me when was the last time the developers listened to the community? Fact is only Eric lurks around here and does occasional damage control on behalf of EA as the community manager. It's gotten so embarrassing at this point I can actually understand why they stopped doing live streams. I mean, if there was an option in the game to throw your cartel coins into game development, optimization and gameplay improvements that might work, but right now? Every time you subscribe or buy cartel coins, that effort is put into making sure you continue to subscribe and buy cartel coins. Honestly though, buff/nerf whatever the hell you want, every bioware fan is gonna ditch this game in favor of Mass Effect 4 in a month, so who cares... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Can someone remind me when was the last time the developers listened to the community? I remember one time on the PTS they wanted to implement a change for PVP so that AoEs wouldn't interrupt a cap/defuse on the doors. Anyway, it went on the PTS and after about a week, players said it was no good; people would just spam the doors. In the end they made a post saying they tried their idea and based on feedback they wouldn't go through with it on the live servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrith Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Commandos and Mercs might be over tough but their damage is still middle of the road and they are the only healing class with one true escapes. Yes they are tough, but it doesn't do anything but extend how long it takes to kill them. Nothing more. Are there classes in need of help, yes there are. But mercs aren't the biggest issue out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 The op assumes every merc/mando is arsenal/gunnery. I play IO and as a result I don't get a snare on blazing bolts every 8 seconds, I don't get a buff to the size of my rapid scan every stack of of tracer missile I apply, I don't get a threat dump defensive that eats 5 force/tech abilities rather I get a buff to defense for six seconds. Oh I can't use my soft stun on a target to escape either as the dots I have already applied mean it's nothing more than an additional interrupt every minute add to the fact using healing abilities hurts my heat management far more then arsenal. So stop saying mercs/mandos are overpowered and get it right and say Arsenal/Gunnery is overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midianlord Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) [...] I think one tweak that might make some of the people that can't adjust happier would be to drop the self heal from the merc reflect shield. That would bring it inline with the other shield/reflects that the other classes have. Since when do people who clearly choose not to even try to adapt deserve to be catered to? Correct answer: They don't. They've gotten all my other ranged classes castrated with nerf-nerf-nerf-nerf-nerf-nerf-nerf, and if my 10+ years of MMOing are anything to go by (nowhere near as long as probably some in this very thread), then they show me that it's never enough for these people. (Oh, sorta/semi-ranged, too --My PTechs literally aren't even fun to play anymore, partly because of this BS...) Always "just one more nerf! Just one more nerf!," always, and I am so sick to death of people making excuses for their incompetence, embracing same, then forcing me --BTW, I'm no-one's definition of an "élite" PvPer by a long shot, just so we're clear (Now, if me and my reflexes were 25 years younger...)-- down into the muck of generic, one-dimensional mediocrity along with them. Screw every one of these bleating whingers, they deserve to get farmed all day, every day. By Mercs. Edited February 20, 2017 by midianlord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBrona Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Commandos and Mercs might be over tough but their damage is still middle of the road and they are the only healing class with one true escapes. Yes they are tough, but it doesn't do anything but extend how long it takes to kill them. Nothing more. Are there classes in need of help, yes there are. But mercs aren't the biggest issue out there. This yes very much this. Mercury and mando'so survive a little longer than before, but that's all. They really don't do great damage, especially compared to snipers/slingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuuu Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) they do need to be nerfed 1 of the DCD name responsive measures need to go to PT, 1 on 1 merc die easy in group for 5+ which happen quite alot in wz there just broke. people crazy when juggs got 1 DCD that heals to full. and it got nerfed, so what does BW do they give merc 3 DCD that will heal to full one of which is reflect, Range classes should not be face tanking anything. where is my heal to full for my marauder? they dont even have 1 dcd that heals to full Edited February 21, 2017 by Kyuuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udoroththefinal Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) I think that after the huge nerf from about 5 years ago, it's deserved that commandos finally got some love again. You know, for years commandos were yelled out of ranked groups, because they lacked AoE lightning. I cant understand if your joking or not based on this last bit but people here continue to perpetuate this false narrative that pre 5.0 mercs and mandos were garbage thats a lie in 4.0 mercs were in a pertty good spot all they needed was minor dcd buff...bioware completely overtuned the dcds of the class And thats a glanring problem that mercs/mandos and snipers/sligners are clear examples off, overtuned dcds the latter of which more so, when you have high damage rdps classes your supposed to be squishy, hitting targets from the back lines with long range instead they can pretty much easily 1v1 every class in the game with their rolls, and kbs Yes arsenal mercs and gunnery mandos are fotm and they are a problem not its not 1 merc its how warzones are filled with them, their a easy class to play, strong defenses, easy forgiving rotations good burst, good sustain and easy energy management and the constant electro-netting make pvp a paina nd just over all frustrating Gunnery, Arsenal, Marksman and sharpshooter These specs are overperforming, they are easy to do well with and that is why everyone is rolling them and come 6.0 everyone who rolled them is going to be salty af because BWA will swing the nerf bat b/c metrics and now the toon they got all those command levels on will be "garbage" like PTs and VG are right now We do? I don't. "insanely overpowered" yet rankings on reddit and swtor put the at 7th on the dps rank list (middle of the road). Those dps ranking are based on dummy parsings... a non moving target that they just do rotations on so its easy for DoT specs to parse high due to having no difficulty with ramp up That **** isnt the reality of this game in either PvP or PvE your not going to be on one target, whos not moving with no need to target switch hence why 99.999999999% of all mercs and mandos are gunnery and arsenal instead of the "much higher parsing", DoT dps specs take all that dps ranking stuff with a grain of salt and like op said their needs to be a limit on the number of healers, they are exacerbating the issue that is already present with the overprevelence of dcds if not that then healing needs to be toned down...specifically sorc healing PvP is a mess for a variety of reasons another among them being the bolster changes and issue that going to continue to grow when BWA adds even more command rank levels further increasing the power gap due to gear Edited February 21, 2017 by Udoroththefinal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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