Reached GC Rank 300. No 242s.

[mike_carton]

Following three announcement threads started by Eric Musco should show what a mess they've created and how much messier they're making it, how the white knight arguments are being repudiated by BW themselves and how BW is not really listening:

 

Tier 1 – 3 Changes Coming in 5.2

Tier 4 Gear in Game Update 5.2

Changes to Operation Drops in 5.2

 

See the following clarification posted by Eric Musco on a slightly different topic which makes it clear that tier 3 crates should not be opened anymore (ref. my post #85 in this thread) till 5.2 is in production even if you're not at 300 rank.

 

If one has to posts so many links and cross-references to discuss gearing in a game, you know things have not been "simplified."

[stoopicus]

I really, really don't understand the people still defending this system.

[leehambly]

See the following clarification posted by Eric Musco on a slightly different topic which makes it clear that tier 3 crates should not be opened anymore (ref. my post #85 in this thread) till 5.2 is in production even if you're not at 300 rank.

 

If one has to posts so many links and cross-references to discuss gearing in a game, you know things have not been "simplified."

 

I don't think you can "blanket call" this, it will be down to individuals to work out their own situation... they have confirmed that only tier 3 gear will ever drop from crates earnt during tier 3 and while the loot drops may improve somewhat in 5.2 that does not mean to say some people will not benefit from what is in those crates now.

 

I admit I've been extremely lucky.. idk if I have been tbh, all I do know is I feel lucky... I am tier 3 currently getting a 240/242 every 4 to 5 crates... it has slowly honed in since tier 1... tier 1 was about 10 crates per purple, that came down to about 8 in tier 2 and now right down again. I don't know the exact number since I hit 300, it was just under 5 just before 300 and hasn't really changed.

 

As it stands I am a couple pieces away from completing the dps and off-spec sets for my main... off-spec is done except for the main hand. I have the other two dps pieces "in process"... grinding up the UA tokens to upgrade them... so, when I reach to spend all those UA tokens... should I do that? Or pop open that stack of crates I've been saving?

 

Like I said... there is no cookie cutter, people need to decide for their own situation.

Edited March 3, 2017 by leehambly

[mike_carton]

There's a mathematical analysis of the chances of getting the best gear in the thread Some light mathematics to make you despair.

 

There's a linked spreadsheet, so the math can be checked by someone with the requisite chops.

 

That post seems to suggest that, if the actual probability of getting a 242 or 248 in any given crate is 2%, then the numbers would be (for one person getting all 14 pieces):

 

You have a 25% chance that it will take you ~3,900 crates

You have a 11% chance that it will take you ~4,700 crates

You have a 6.3% chance that it will take you ~5,500 crates

You have a 4% chance that it will take you ~6,350 crates

You have a 2.8% chance that it will take you ~7,150 crates

[Savyl]

Here's the thing: You've had some outstanding good luck while people who actually need the gear for the content they're running get greens or the same piece over and over again because their luck stinks and Ben's RNG loves to wave a giant middle finger at them.

I'm not so Lucky and I spoke too soon. I've not acquired anything worthy since rank 216 and I'm currently 292 now.

 

You got 3 242s in 60 ranks which works out to a 5% drop rate. That is at the very top of the drop rate that has been hypothesized and there is anecdotal information (no hard data, of course) that a large number of people are experiencing a significantly lower drop rate including not receiving any 242s in over 150 GC ranks. But then, that is the nature of RNG.

Actually most of my luck came from Tier 2, not Tier 3. I did receive a 242 Helmet and 2 relics but have not received anything else, not even the purple since command rank 216 and I'm currently 292. Infact I'm starting to feel paranoid, wondering if after my original post speaking of my luck, if one of the Devs did not alter my RNG somehow to get absolutely Nothing.. because that is what I am getting basically.. other than greens, some orange shells and other useless items and stuff that is not for my class. I did get a few 240's but did not keep them since they were not part of the class set. So it seems that I am less Lucky than everyone now.. not a happy lady.

[Ryenke]

I'm not so Lucky and I spoke too soon. I've not acquired anything worthy since rank 216 and I'm currently 292 now.

snip...

So it seems that I am less Lucky than everyone now.. not a happy lady.

 

So what are you going to do about it? BWA is convinced RNG is the way to go and seemingly more people will stay subbed to get that 'lucky streak' going again. I know some people will do so, but for those I know, and for me, the unfun, frustrating, ultimately beyond our control rng crates means an unsub. (my luck was considerably worse than what you describe, btw)

 

The fact is, with an RNG basis some folks will be (very) unlucky and most folks will have streaky periods of unluck. The question is does that mean more or less (un)subs? If the game lasts until a 6.0 and if the sub population still warrants development of a 6.0 -- I guess we'll see then - if 6.x has RNG more swtor playing folks are gamblers, if 6.x drops without RNG gear basis more swtor players are not having fun with a 'luck' game.

[wainot-keel]

 

See the following clarification posted by Eric Musco on a slightly different topic which makes it clear that tier 3 crates should not be opened anymore (ref. my post #85 in this thread) till 5.2 is in production even if you're not at 300 rank.

 

And later in that same thread, Musco confirms the opposite:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9255584&postcount=86

This also is on the devtracker so I guess this is the definitive answer. Musco spoke too soon without knowing how it actually worked.

Just open your crates and get those disintigration items now. No point holding them.

 

BTW, only 21 crates to go and I can join this club, lol

[Thessal]

I reached GC rank 300 two days ago without having received any 242 armor piece. I have not been able to bring myself to play the game since then. The subscription is ending in 4 days and I'm conflicted about renewing. While I will likely do so at the last minute, it will only be because I like the Star Wars IP.

 

But this post is not about that. It is about the idea that Galactic Command is the primary means of gearing. It is about the argument that PvP and Ops are supplementary means that can be useful in filling specific gaps in gear. These statements will only make sense if one is able to actually gear oneself through the Galactic Command system. If I received say 10 pieces, I could try to do Ops to get the Tier 1 or Tier 2 unassembled gear and use the unassembled components from doing some PvP to upgrade them. This'd require some serious PvP, but at least it is doable; the required Command Tokens from the Command Crates would not be a problem either. But if I have to get all 14 pieces from Ops and PvP, that means the Galactic Command is just a waste of time after rank 101 (You need 615 command tokens at most to get Tier 3 gear, which you'll receive by rank 101.) Getting all gear using only unassembled components requires over 6,000 of them; even if one got all gear pieces at 236 rating from HM Ops, upgrading them to 242 will still require nearly 3,000 unassembled components. Neither is a realistic option for most players; certainly not for me. Much of this has been discussed in other posts.

 

The biggest fallout is how demotivating and demoralizing this whole enterprise is.

 

Over 100 Tier 3 crates opened and only two item level 242 pieces of gear. For this to be the primary gearing method prior to Biowares amazing creation of unassembled components is just laughable.

 

How can Bioware or any player of this game defend this terrible system? Oh, and thank you Bioware for the 250% increase in getting the crates. So much fun getting crates filled with crap that much faster.

[mike_carton]

And later in that same thread, Musco confirms the opposite:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9255584&postcount=86

This also is on the devtracker so I guess this is the definitive answer. Musco spoke too soon without knowing how it actually worked.

Just open your crates and get those disintigration items now. No point holding them.

 

In short, the system is built in a way that we want you to open the crates as you get them, there is no gameplay benefit to holding them.

 

I'm pretty sure Musco is right when he says "the system is built in a way that we want you to open the crates as you get them" but Musco's answer is still wrong and bad advice in the second part "there is no gameplay benefit to holding them". Once you reach 300, opening crates will waste the CXP. With only a very limited space in the Command Stash (expensive to expand,) one has to disintegrate the contents which produces CXP that goes towards Tier 3 ranks and Tier 3 gear. Waiting till 5.2 for opening the crates and disintegrating means that CXP goes towards Tier 4 ranks and gear all of which has been declared to be better than the best Tier 3 gear. When suggesting to open crates now, they're playing to gambling instincts and not being able to deal with delayed gratification.

 

And I'm not the only one who "figured it out." See this reply to Musco in that same thread you quoted. None of this is new either. This was originally discussed more than 2 weeks ago on other sites.

 

Bottom Line: Once you reach GC 300, store unopened CXP Packs and crates; see this for more.

[jedcjedcjedc]

Following three announcement threads started by Eric Musco should show what a mess they've created and how much messier they're making it, how the white knight arguments are being repudiated by BW themselves and how BW is not really listening:

 

Tier 1 – 3 Changes Coming in 5.2

Tier 4 Gear in Game Update 5.2

Changes to Operation Drops in 5.2

 

See the following clarification posted by Eric Musco on a slightly different topic which makes it clear that tier 3 crates should not be opened anymore (ref. my post #85 in this thread) till 5.2 is in production even if you're not at 300 rank.

 

If one has to posts so many links and cross-references to discuss gearing in a game, you know things have not been "simplified."

making it worse? they've increased the amount of components, Ops now drop gear on every boss, continuously improved the chances of getting the gear you need from crates the further you are in to the tier, among several other things. things have gotten immensely better from the begining of GC. this sounds like the type to have a full set of 248's mailed to each of his toons and start a thread saying "look at what these despicable devs have done!!"

[Quraswren]

I'm pretty sure Musco is right when he says "the system is built in a way that we want you to open the crates as you get them" but Musco's answer is still wrong and bad advice in the second part "there is no gameplay benefit to holding them". Once you reach 300, opening crates will waste the CXP. With only a very limited space in the Command Stash (expensive to expand,) one has to disintegrate the contents which produces CXP that goes towards Tier 3 ranks and Tier 3 gear. Waiting till 5.2 for opening the crates and disintegrating means that CXP goes towards Tier 4 ranks and gear all of which has been declared to be better than the best Tier 3 gear. When suggesting to open crates now, they're playing to gambling instincts and not being able to deal with delayed gratification.

 

And I'm not the only one who "figured it out." See this reply to Musco in that same thread you quoted. None of this is new either. This was originally discussed more than 2 weeks ago on other sites.

 

Bottom Line: Once you reach GC 300, store unopened CXP Packs and crates; see this for more.

 

This is very much the case of what people should do at 300.

 

Holding the crates is the best way to go. Save the CXP you get from disentigrating them for 5.2. With the command crate storage so expensive, best to keep them in the crate. If you have decent enough gear now, just don't open them till 5.2.

 

Sure, it wont change the garbage you get from them but it will push you to a new command crate that has better odds in 5.2

 

The goal for anyone at 300 is to stock up as many RNG crates as you can as well as stock up on as many CXP tokens as you can. 5.2 drops, wait for your LS or DS to win and then open it all with CXP bonus buffs active.

 

On another note, If I was in Tier 3 and had a decent amount of gear, I'd start saving up RNG crates and well as tokens as 5.2 got close. If your going to open crates, might as well get something good for it IF you know you wont make 300. Stock up as much CXP as you can to get the 5.2 and better odds at gear.

[Skummy]

I'm 300 and i got my 242 gear from pvp. Oh wait i got a clicky relic from gc that i couldnt use gg

[jedcjedcjedc]

I'm 300 and i got my 242 gear from pvp. Oh wait i got a clicky relic from gc that i couldnt use gg

 

I find it really unnecessary that using the click relics puts the others on CD as well.

[LonelyWookiee]

I'm working my way up the GC Ranks but I have to say it's discouraging to read how many people have made it there already and not received 242 gear. I'm glad they're changing the drop rates before the bonus to CXP is removed. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be then!

[mike_carton]

...I'm glad they're changing the drop rates before the bonus to CXP is removed...

 

This is not accurate. The 5.2 patch is slated to remove the CXP bonus (and the XP bonus) and make changes to drop rates within tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3, improving them as one progresses through the tier. That gradual improvement of drop rate has not been mentioned for the virtual tier 4.

[DreadtechSavant]

This is not accurate. The 5.2 patch is slated to remove the CXP bonus (and the XP bonus) and make changes to drop rates within tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3, improving them as one progresses through the tier. That gradual improvement of drop rate has not been mentioned for the virtual tier 4.

 

Yep, the removal of the CXP boost with 5.2 is disappointing. Odd thing is for me personally I did not mind the rate it was at before the boost . Now though I have to admit I would like it to stay.

Edited March 8, 2017 by DreadtechSavant

[Quraswren]

This is not accurate. The 5.2 patch is slated to remove the CXP bonus (and the XP bonus) and make changes to drop rates within tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3, improving them as one progresses through the tier. That gradual improvement of drop rate has not been mentioned for the virtual tier 4.

 

This is what was said about Tier 4.

 

Tier 4’s biggest difference from previous Tiers is every gear drop from a Command Crate will be Prototype (Blue) Artifact (Purple), or Legendary (Gold); there are no Premium (green) items. Additionally, Prototype quality items in this Tier all have set bonuses. This means every piece of gear coming from a Command Crate in Tier 4 will have a set bonus (where applicable) and be of Prototype or better quality. It’s also important to note every piece of gear in Tier 4 is better than gear from previous tiers, including Tier 3 Legendaries. As Legendary Tier 4 items are best-in-slot, they will remain fairly rare from Command Crates.

 

Tier 4 is primarily for our most hardcore players who have maxed out their Command Rank and are working on getting best-in-slot gear for their character. Now, with Galactic Command, every player has an opportunity to get a complete set of the best gear offered in SWTOR.

[Stellarcrusade]

5.2 pretty much makes gearing way worse. It may be the nail in the coffin. They remove the bonus CXP rate so we will get crates much less often, and add another tier which will be rare t4 drops. For pvp the game doesn't even start until all your characters have full BiS.

To get full BiS in 4.0 it was 2 weeks of casual play. To get full BiS sounds like many many months, and to get all your chars geared so you can play more than 1 type in PvP will take many years. No thanks. Why invest years in a game before you can even be at a level playing field with the no-lifers.

 

Maybe they do not realize, all PvPers want is to be in a place where NO-ONE HAS BETTER GEAR THAN YOU. I may have to join the rest and move on to a game that makes PvP about PvP again, and not gear.

 

To offset all these terrible changes, the crate progression within a tier will feel better. Bah, all that matters is "how long does it take to BiS fully gear a player". Lets just rate each patch by that parameter. I don't care if 5.3 gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling every time you open a crate, or if 5.4 gives you a variety of colors of crates, or if 5.5 allows you to move more items around in legacy. All that maters is 1 metric: How long will it take for each character to full BiS. Thats the problem the devs need to solve for PvPers. All the other issues and noise really all boil down to this.

 

We do not need to read notes about each patch, specifics, weather or not we can buy worthless items for cartel coins. All we need is:

 

Here is what we have so far:

4.0: full BiS will take: 24 hours playtime per char

5.0: full BiS will take: 9000 hours playtime per char

5.1: full BiS will take: 7900 hours playtime per char

5.2: full BiS will take: 17000 hours playtime per char

 

Call me when it is back down to 24 hours.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Stellarcrusade

[Wimbleton]

Does anyone know the best way to get the CXP tokens? Is it still fractured?

[Toraak]

5.2 pretty much makes gearing way worse. It may be the nail in the coffin. They remove the bonus CXP rate so we will get crates much less often, and add another tier which will be rare t4 drops. For pvp the game doesn't even start until all your characters have full BiS.

To get full BiS in 4.0 it was 2 weeks of casual play. To get full BiS sounds like many many months, and to get all your chars geared so you can play more than 1 type in PvP will take many years. No thanks. Why invest years in a game before you can even be at a level playing field with the no-lifers.

 

Maybe they do not realize, all PvPers want is to be in a place where NO-ONE HAS BETTER GEAR THAN YOU. I may have to join the rest and move on to a game that makes PvP about PvP again, and not gear.

 

To offset all these terrible changes, the crate progression within a tier will feel better. Bah, all that matters is "how long does it take to BiS fully gear a player". Lets just rate each patch by that parameter. I don't care if 5.3 gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling every time you open a crate, or if 5.4 gives you a variety of colors of crates, or if 5.5 allows you to move more items around in legacy. All that maters is 1 metric: How long will it take for each character to full BiS. Thats the problem the devs need to solve for PvPers. All the other issues and noise really all boil down to this.

 

We do not need to read notes about each patch, specifics, weather or not we can buy worthless items for cartel coins. All we need is:

 

Here is what we have so far:

4.0: full BiS will take: 24 hours playtime per char

5.0: full BiS will take: 9000 hours playtime per char

5.1: full BiS will take: 7900 hours playtime per char

5.2: full BiS will take: 17000 hours playtime per char

 

Call me when it is back down to 24 hours.

 

well then I hope they never call you. NO MMO should ever have full BiS gear in 24 hours, Not even 4.0 had that. 4.0 still took most people a couple of weeks at most to get BiS. And the couple of weeks to get BiS was way to fast (for PvE anywa).

 

For PvP, yes you got to keep your comms from 3.0 so full BiS as you logged in. This is just wrong from BW, so glad they got rid of the comms for 5.0.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Toraak

[Stellarcrusade]

well then I hope they never call you. NO MMO should ever have full BiS gear in 24 hours, Not even 4.0 had that. 4.0 still took most people a couple of weeks at most to get BiS. And the couple of weeks to get BiS was way to fast.

 

24 hrs of playtime. 24 hrs of playtime for a casual player is about 2 weeks. 4.0 DID have that. It was the correct amount of time. My point is, 4.0 was perfect, 5.0 is the death of pvp.

 

Your opinion that 4.0 was way too fast is fine, but lets say we add 1 week and make it 3 weeks to fully gear, not adding years.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Stellarcrusade

[Quraswren]

Does anyone know the best way to get the CXP tokens? Is it still fractured?

 

While they secretly nerfed the CXP gains from fractured.

 

I still find it the best UR to run for the time and get tokens. It might not be the best CXP for completing the mission but you get decent CXP tokens for the time there and you can run it over and over faster than others.

 

Other than getting in a decent SM OPS group. I think fractured is still the way to go for tokens.

 

You might be able to get a decent return on some FP's like hammer station as well.

[TPooFlinger]

This is very much the case of what people should do at 300.

 

Holding the crates is the best way to go. Save the CXP you get from disentigrating them for 5.2. With the command crate storage so expensive, best to keep them in the crate. If you have decent enough gear now, just don't open them till 5.2.

 

Sure, it wont change the garbage you get from them but it will push you to a new command crate that has better odds in 5.2

 

The goal for anyone at 300 is to stock up as many RNG crates as you can as well as stock up on as many CXP tokens as you can. 5.2 drops, wait for your LS or DS to win and then open it all with CXP bonus buffs active.

 

On another note, If I was in Tier 3 and had a decent amount of gear, I'd start saving up RNG crates and well as tokens as 5.2 got close. If your going to open crates, might as well get something good for it IF you know you wont make 300. Stock up as much CXP as you can to get the 5.2 and better odds at gear.

 

Exactly. Also, if you're running out of space, the CXP packs are legacy bound so you can store them on alts and their cargo bays, even level 1s, until you need them.

[Quraswren]

Exactly. Also, if you're running out of space, the CXP packs are legacy bound so you can store them on alts and their cargo bays, even level 1s, until you need them.

 

Excellent point. I forgot to add that one.

If you are running low on space. Move the CXP tokens to an ALT to store them. They are legacy bound so you can just mail them to ALTs as needed. Mail them all back to your main after 5.2 hits and have at it.

 

If you are trying to get the best bang for your so called "buck". Make sure to wait till your side wins (LS or DS) as I think it's 15% more. Combine that with the 15% from the purchased CXP buff and it's a nice boost for your wait.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Quraswren

[Toraak]

24 hrs of playtime. 24 hrs of playtime for a casual player is about 2 weeks. 4.0 DID have that. It was the correct amount of time. My point is, 4.0 was perfect, 5.0 is the death of pvp.

 

Your opinion that 4.0 was way too fast is fine, but lets say we add 1 week and make it 3 weeks to fully gear, not adding years.

 

24 hours of playtime again is incorrect. for a casual 3 hours a day, so 21 hours a week, times 2= 42 hours of playtime,

 

however that is in all honesty is still way to quickly. any MMO needs full BiS to be a minimum of 1 Month of hard core playing. BiS isn't for casual players, that's what the 2nd tier of gear is for. Full BiS is meant for Hardcore players, who are putting in massive hours whether it is raiding the hardest content, or doing massive ranked PvP, so it should take Months in all honesty to get. With that being said, BW believes that everyone deserves a chance at BiS, which is fine, but since Operations will now drop BiS in NiM, and PvP will have the ability to grind out BiS (which takes time like it should), the casuals will still be able to get BiS from the crates which I have no issues with (but it should never be done quickly)