SithKoriandr Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Before, I found it slow. Now with the increase to CXP, doesn't seem bad at all. Getting a Command Level every two WZs. I never felt in a rush before to get the best gear though Also, I don't recall OPs being generous with the gear either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediAkemi Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 What the frell is an Orange 230? The only Orange gear I've seen drop in a crate is an empty shell. I've been playing on a lot of alts so none of me are out of Tier 1 yet (I think my main is up to GC45). I just try to have fun as best I can, and craft purple 228s & what 230 parts I can rather than rely on the Random Number Gods. If a set piece drops, then cool. As I hardly ever do Ops, and won't touch pvp without a gun and/or a stealth generator, I don't need to get stressed out chasing the GC ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) If you embrace what you actually stated here... then why are you so worked up about gearing from crates then? The only real advantage of the crate-only approach at this point would be for people who feel they simply cannot log in and play the game without a full tier 3 set bonus. I get it.. from your other comments you appear jaded over this because you feel it largely killed your guild. I empathize as that never feels good, but the fact is.. your guild could easily have developed a plan to not be dependent on GC crates and been successful in 5.0 rather then giving up and leaving. But it honestly sounds more like your guild moved on because of no new OPs, which is fine as if that is the sole focus of a guild in MMOs these days.. nomadic migration from MMO to MMO is fairly normal. Indeed I do embrace what I said. And it's not that I am jaded over this because I feel it largely killed our guild. I am jaded over this because I feel it largely killed our game. A little background first I think ... Our guild is humungous. We have 1,000s of members across a multitude of games. SWTOR is merely a branch. Having said that, our SWTOR branch was present at the March 2012 Guild Summit in Austin and for lack of a better term had been SWTOR lifers since beta, right up until 4.0. When Fallen Empire arrived our 90+ accounts and 400+ characters on Harbinger were highly active. There were always at least a dozen players on, and at least 2 or 3 dozen during peak CST hours. We were consistently a top 5 Conquest guild ... and were never nomadic. Thursday nights were mentoring nights where learning players grouped up for leveling flashpoints and HMs with the raiders. Many lessons were taught, many secrets were revealed, many techniques were shared, many friendships were cemented, and many cocktails were consumed in the process. Friday nights were PvP nights (as well as GSF when it was added) which was yet another cocktail night. We ran Normal Ops on Tuesday nights, two HMs and/or NiMs on Saturdays (one in the afternoon, one in the evening) and closed out unfinished Ops on Monday nights. That is what our guild was like. Here is why it is no longer ... To address the gearing with crates issue I will dip into some of my previous posts. There is a raiding term that for whatever reason seems to be eluding some ... "on farm." On farm means knowing what you're hunting, knowing where to find what you're hunting, knowing what the trophy will be for completing the hunt, and then becoming adept enough over time to (re)execute the hunt so as to come away with the trophy with increasing ease and efficiency. Having content "on farm" is the greatest progression measuring stick for raiders ... guilds especially. It takes months to achieve and requires skill, teamwork and repetition (practice makes perfect!). Improved gear is merely an acquisition objective along the way that leads to achieving the goal, which is progressing to the next level of difficulty. RNG? The only RNG in the old system was a d8 to d12 roll that determined a specific and guaranteed drop's stats. Otherwise there was nothing RNG about any of it. If you wou wanted a certian piece you knew exactly where to go to earn it. You could plan your character's progression that way. That's what real MMOs allow their players to do, and what we had prior to 4.0. To answer the chicken and egg question ... gear came from progression and progression came from practice ... first learning boss fight complexities then building synergy with other players by learning to mate our character's strengths and weaknesses with the strength's and weaknesses of other characters. We practiced in not so good gear until we became good enough to start dropping bosses which then gave us the gear we needed to progress to the next level of difficulty. The grind was in the content learning and teamwork mastering processes, not the gearing system. From a historical perspective circa 2014 ... it all started with the leveling planets where PvE characters leveled up in tiers on each planet: open world exploration + class / companion story & planet missions → planet heroic 2s → planet heroic 4s → planet flashpoint. In this original level progression system characters had a hard time outleveling planets, and if they did it wasn't by much. Players who preferred to focus on solo story could level through that while players who enjoyed leveling through challenging group content could do that as well. There was plenty of game there to accommodate both. Each planet had its own mini-elder game (H2s and H4s) and mini-end game (flashpoints). Group players (including 2 players + companions) would complete each planet's elder and end games before going to the next planet, while solo players would usually play up through elder game, go to the next planet for a few levels and come back to run the previous planet's end game flashpoint solo with a companion once they upgraded their gear. Running flashpoints solo at 5+ levels above the flashpoint's listed level range provided solo players with a challenge similar to what group players experienced when they were running it level appropriate, and still provided drops they could use because the flashpoint boss loot tables and comm system were balanced to carry a player through to the next planet's elder game. We similarly progressed through HMs and bonus or heroic zones like BH, SX, CZ and Ziost to reach PvE end game ... Operations: first normal, then HM then NiM. We progressed through content difficulty levels, with item levels and cleared end boss achievements being the gateway to more difficult content ... not some misplaced RPG-centric and promiscuously-focused XP grind. Throughout the entire MMO group PvE journey (not PvP, not GSF, not solo story) which culminated in operations, increasingly better gear was merely an earned reward intended to make further PvE group progression possible. Galactic Command is set up so that anyone can grind command ranks in disciplines that have nothing to do with PvE or group play to get Ops gear. The situation is akin to earning a drivers license from experience gained mowing lawns. That combined with frustration over the entire group play ecosystem's demise is why I won't pug ops any more. So between that and crates (which should stay in the CM where they belong), Galactic Command and MMO PvE progression are mutually exclusive in scope, scale and purpose. Being more suited as a solo track achievement system ... Galactic Command, CXP and RNG crates are ill-suited in any form as a MMO PvE progression system. Edited February 16, 2017 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) What the frell is an Orange 230? I would like to know too. Only thing that would explain it is colorblindness. Edited February 16, 2017 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantboi Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 the armors with blue 230 mods are orange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 the armors with blue 230 mods are orange. Ah, I actually never paid any attention to that. I thought they are blue. Explains that "superior to 230 set". Though it's actually inferior because of lower power in mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Ah, I actually never paid any attention to that. I thought they are blue. Explains that "superior to 230 set". Though it's actually inferior because of lower power in mod. According to Bant - and I think Hottie did some testing as well, Mastery is slightly superior to power now, and the Orange 230 set has 180 more mastery as well as 120ish more endurance than the purple 230 set. Edited February 16, 2017 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) It's funny to me how all the people primarily white knighting for EAWare are also mysteriously the same ones who report they've gotten tons and tons of BiS gear out of crates. The same people who are now pooh-poohing the complaints of those who RNGesus has not similarly blessed... To me, it feels like their mindset in defending GC under those circumstances boils down to "**** you, got mine." I bet they'd be singing a different tune if their luck was more like mine, who has yet to come close to completing a set ion any character at any tier. Either that or they're just EAWare employees trying to spread propaganda, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here. Edited February 17, 2017 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Because casuals are casualsplaining: 224 6 piece Armoring vs 230 non set bonus Armoring is a significant DPS loss. The small stat mastery increase is trivial.Then again it won't matter and people don't understand since this game is just casuals regstars and ERP heroes lol. Now to train my Chocobo some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) It's funny to me how all the people primarily white knighting for EAWare are also mysteriously the same ones who report they've gotten tons and tons of BiS gear out of crates. The same people who are now pooh-poohing the complaints of those who RNGesus has not similarly blessed... To me, it feels like their mindset in defending GC under those circumstances boils down to "**** you, got mine." I bet they'd be singing a different tone if their luck was more like mine, who has yet to come close to completing a set ion any character at any tier. How is it possible you haven't come close to completing a set in any tier? Have you done no ops, no pvp, no gsf, on top of crates giving you no set pieces? You're either massively exaggerating to try and validate your point, or you don't even play the game and just come to the forums to complain. Edited February 16, 2017 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curulz Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 According to Bant - and I think Hottie did some testing as well, Mastery is slightly superior to power now, and the Orange 230 set has 180 more mastery as well as 120ish more endurance than the purple 230 set. Last numbers I saw was 1 point of power was worth .23 damage vs 1 point of mastery was worth .2 I'm not a theory crafter, so just going from what I've seen. But I have parsed with high mastery and lower power vs. higher power and lower mastery and power has won 10 out of 10. Looking at one of bant's early 5.0 he did say that mastery vs power was debatable. Maybe there was a later one in which he resolved the debate but I haven't seen anyone say that mastery is actually better than power. Now I can't speak for PVP and bolster, maybe low power and high mastery is better at less than BIS levels. And that might be your primary content. But I'm not seeing any guides promoting blue mods over prpurple mods of the same level anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) How is it possible you haven't come close to completing a set in any tier? Have you done no ops, no pvp, no gsf, on top of crates giving you no set pieces? You're either massively exaggerating to try and validate your point, or you don't even play the game and just come to the forums to complain.Galactic Command is set up so that anyone can grind command ranks in disciplines that have nothing to do with PvE or group play to get Ops gear. The situation is akin to earning a drivers license from experience gained mowing lawns. When I run Ops I want to team up with drivers ... not lawn mowers. If I have every Ops achievement portrait in the game decorating my stronghold walls because for years I had no desire to play anything that isn't group PvE related (which after all is exactly what Operations are) ... then what can I expect for gearing under the GC system? Edited February 16, 2017 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Last numbers I saw was 1 point of power was worth .23 damage vs 1 point of mastery was worth .2 I'm not a theory crafter, so just going from what I've seen. But I have parsed with high mastery and lower power vs. higher power and lower mastery and power has won 10 out of 10. Looking at one of bant's early 5.0 he did say that mastery vs power was debatable. Maybe there was a later one in which he resolved the debate but I haven't seen anyone say that mastery is actually better than power. Now I can't speak for PVP and bolster, maybe low power and high mastery is better at less than BIS levels. And that might be your primary content. But I'm not seeing any guides promoting blue mods over prpurple mods of the same level anywhere. It may be related to bolster, as it was discussed at length in this thread and that statement was made: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=903890 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Galactic Command is set up so that anyone can grind command ranks in disciplines that have nothing to do with PvE or group play to get Ops gear. The situation is akin to earning a drivers license from experience gained mowing lawns. When I run Ops I want to team up with drivers ... not lawn mowers. If I have every Ops achievement portrait in the game decorating my stronghold walls because for years I had no desire to play anything that isn't group PvE related (which after all is exactly what Operations are) ... then what can I expect for gearing under the GC system? I haven't run a single op and I have a full tier 1 set and parts of a tier 2 set. So you tell me. If you only want to gear through ops and are tired of running ops, how is that anyone's problem but your own? Edited February 16, 2017 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 According to Bant - and I think Hottie did some testing as well, Mastery is slightly superior to power now, and the Orange 230 set has 180 more mastery as well as 120ish more endurance than the purple 230 set. I don't know where you get that 180 from from but any additional endurance is useless to dps/heals. Even 216 vs 230 isn't big enough difference to explain that 180 mastery difference. Are you sure you're excluding augment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) I haven't run a single op and I have a full tier 1 set and parts of a tier 2 set. So you tell me. If you only want to gear through ops and are tired of running ops, how is that anyone's problem but your own?So you have never run a single Operation yet you have nearly 2 full Ops tier sets? Out of curiosity are you saving them for something else? Or is the gear itself the end game? Edited February 16, 2017 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksarcasm Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 So you have never run a single Operation yet you have nearly 2 full Ops tier sets? Out of curiosity are you saving them for something else? Or is obtaining the gear itself the end game? PvP is still a thing, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) PvP is still a thing, no?I believe that PvP is still a thing for PvPers ... yes. Edited February 16, 2017 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I believe that PvP is still a thing for PvP ... yes. Set bonus has been the same for PvE and PVP since 3.0. Only difference used to be Expertise which was removed in 5.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksarcasm Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) I believe that PvP is still a thing for PvPers ... yes. Soooo... couldn't he use his "Ops gear" in PvP? Edited February 16, 2017 by eriksarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I don't know where you get that 180 from from but any additional endurance is useless to dps/heals. Even 216 vs 230 isn't big enough difference to explain that 180 mastery difference. Are you sure you're excluding augment? There's 30 more mastery and around 20 more endurance on each piece of 230 orange is what I was pointing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Soooo... couldn't he use his "Ops gear" in PvP?lol ... I had to look it up. With expertise going away with KotET it looks like there is no longer a difference between PvE and PvP gear. So you are correct, he could use his Ops gear in PvP. Edited February 16, 2017 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 lol ... I had to look it up. With expertise going away with KotET it looks like there is no longer a difference between PvE and PvP gear. So you are correct, he could use his Ops gear in PvP. Seriously? You've been part of the anti-GC crusade for weeks, and you don't even know what is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Seriously? You've been part of the anti-GC crusade for weeks, and you don't even know what is going on?Actually I've been part of the anti-GC crusade since early December when it turned our productive MMORPG progression system into a convoluted tablet RPG achievement system. My unfamiliarity with the expertise change stems from my only PvPing with our guild ... which hasn't been active since last summer. I'm just trying to get the Ops band back together, and fighting like hell against these maintenance mode changes in defense of it. Most of the changes I've been protesting are the exact same changes that scattered our guild, many of which predate 4.0. My grievances have to do with the traditional discipline-specific content difficulty progression system being replaced with Galactic Command's promiscuous CXP system; as well as the pre-4.0 fixed and farmable loot table system being replaced first with the Alliance crate system, then with Galactic Command's blind crate lottery system. Crates belong in the Cartel Market. Those plus removing leveling planet flashpoints, as well as the last 2 expansions' entire leveling story experiences being exclusive to solo play ... not solo and group play which was this game's stock in trade since its creation ... pretty well covers it. Edited February 16, 2017 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmorrisson Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) If there wasn't a problem with Command Crates there would not be a over two month long double CXP, double XP event, boosts added to Cartel Store along with added vendors featuring a complex tier system. Edited February 16, 2017 by jimmorrisson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts