Dear BW. What is with the tank gear?

[mmmbuddah]

I understand that mitigation is really important as a tank. But you know what is also important? Not having lower health than DPS players. I got INCREDIBLY lucky today and got one 230 set piece PER crate for 7 crates in a row , and the 8th was a 230 relic, and I noticed that -every- single piece was low health gear? I mean, what were they thnking? What good is mitigation if you are dead?

[CrazyCT]

I understand that mitigation is really important as a tank. But you know what is also important? Not having lower health than DPS players. I got INCREDIBLY lucky today and got one 230 set piece PER crate for 7 crates in a row , and the 8th was a 230 relic, and I noticed that -every- single piece was low health gear? I mean, what were they thnking? What good is mitigation if you are dead?

 

As with all tanking, it's better to take less damage, than be able to take more. I know it sounds confusing, but take a minute and think about it

[docbenwayddo]

Having 2x the HP is no good if it drops 10x as fast.

[GopherLuV]

Not necessarily.. a lot of the recent tuning has made spike damage what you need to mitigate and the problem with mitigating that through mitigation, whether it's shield or defense, is the consistency... the best way to consistently mitigate 100k hits is to have 130k hp...

 

Basically, imo, the gear drops are worthless (minus the set bonus and perhaps enhancements but I only use set bonus), and you need to get B mods crafted. You can also look into dps relics since most of the tank relics make very very little difference in overall mitigation but dps relics can add 5k+ hp all the time plus add damage and threat output.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Tank gear isn't even meta. All top rated tanks run in dps gear lol

[mmmbuddah]

As with all tanking, it's better to take less damage, than be able to take more. I know it sounds confusing, but take a minute and think about it

 

I understand that, I have been taking for quite some time now, but as a tank you should not have lower health than a dps player.

[mmmbuddah]

Not necessarily.. a lot of the recent tuning has made spike damage what you need to mitigate and the problem with mitigating that through mitigation, whether it's shield or defense, is the consistency... the best way to consistently mitigate 100k hits is to have 130k hp...

 

Basically, imo, the gear drops are worthless (minus the set bonus and perhaps enhancements but I only use set bonus), and you need to get B mods crafted. You can also look into dps relics since most of the tank relics make very very little difference in overall mitigation but dps relics can add 5k+ hp all the time plus add damage and threat output.

 

This exactly the problem. If your shield or defense does not happen to proc, you will die very quickly, taking 15 k hits as a tank with 106 k health in warzones is catastrophic.

[Galahard]

My thoughts exaclty.

I started out at 228 crafted gear, my health was above 100k, as I acquire 230 tank gear drops, my health is below 100k now.

 

I understand mitigation, but since it's never gonna be 100%, it doesn't make sense, like deflect, absorb, deflect, absorb, whoops neither deflect nor absorb = dead.

[Airehn]

Glad I found this thread, we've been having the exact same conversations in my guild. We are just starting to get into Hard Mode Ops again, and health pools was one of the things we noticed.

 

I'm glad we aren't the only ones with this concern.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Airehn

[Udoroththefinal]

Didn't ye get the memo mate?

 

Only way to play tanks these days is as a shank tank

[HelinCarnate]

And as a healer I hate tanks with high HP and low mitigation. They are far more difficult to keep alive than those with higher mitigation and use up more force/energy/ammo.

[AscendingSky]

It's definitely a balancing act. Best way I've found to deal with it on my own tank is to either use the mods/enhancements you get as drops or crafted ones that have the lowest Defense ratings. Since you get Defense on ALL tank mods now and ALL tank enhancements now, you're rarely going to be lacking that and usually will be over the optimal level. Those mods/enhancements have more Endurance and better Shield/Absorb, so that helps with the health issue. Edited February 11, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Galahard]

And as a healer I hate tanks with high HP and low mitigation. They are far more difficult to keep alive than those with higher mitigation and use up more force/energy/ammo.

 

Well, I can understand that, but then care to explain why a DPS needs 5-10% more HP then the tank, since they can (hopefully) drop agro?

Or is it another good reason to roll more DPS-s, who still don't know how to drop agro, and think they are safe with their high HP, and of course they are not and complain about the tank not taking agro from them that they generate?

As a tank, I would say, hey you took agro that you don't know how to or care to drop, you have the HP to survive, don't you, cause I sure don't?

 

If anything this just makes DPS even dumber, while making tanking even more challenging, and we know which role is more in demand (hint, not DPS).

 

And as we come to healing, which HP pool would you rather try to keep up the 2-4x (+5%-10%) more DPS HP pool on 2-4 more toons, or the 1 tank HP pool?

Edited February 11, 2017 by Galahard

[DariusCalera]

I understand that mitigation is really important as a tank. But you know what is also important? Not having lower health than DPS players. I got INCREDIBLY lucky today and got one 230 set piece PER crate for 7 crates in a row , and the 8th was a 230 relic, and I noticed that -every- single piece was low health gear? I mean, what were they thnking? What good is mitigation if you are dead?

 

What tanking class do you run?

 

If it is PT/VG and Sin/Shadow you can just run the 51 B mods for extra endurance.

[Khaleg]

Yeah, I always wonder why my Jedi guardian, optimal geared in both skills, has like 12 k less hp in tank gear than in dd gear. Seems to be stupid.

But still, dmg avoidance rules over a few more hp.

[Lionflash]

What about about abilities that are tied to your HP like Arenaline Rush. Wouldn't that have a minimum HP threshold?

[mmmbuddah]

What tanking class do you run?

 

If it is PT/VG and Sin/Shadow you can just run the 51 B mods for extra endurance.

 

Vanguard. I will be checking out the 51 b mods, because seriously, running around in pvp and ops with lower health than a gunslinger is just stupid.

[mmmbuddah]

What about about abilities that are tied to your HP like Arenaline Rush. Wouldn't that have a minimum HP threshold?

 

VG tanks got the nerf bat when it came to adrenaline rush, i do not know why. Before we could activate it at 70% health. now we cant. So our health went down, AND our defensives got worse...

[DariusCalera]

Vanguard. I will be checking out the 51 b mods, because seriously, running around in pvp and ops with lower health than a gunslinger is just stupid.

 

Yeah, the 51 Bs will give you more endurance at the cost of defense which is a stat that PT's will already have more than enough of through enhancements, implants, and ears.

 

On the same note, the crafted 240 tanking ears and implants will give you more endurance than the ones that drop from the crates. This is also because they give that endurance in place of defense.

[LordTurin]

Yup, Warding B Mods and then you'll need to craft your own Bastion/Bulwark enhancments (they are the high shield/absorb, secondary endurance, tertiary defense enhancements). That's what my guardian is rocking, and even with all the armorings still at 224 it's sitting at 117,553 health. And no, I don't need more than 2800 defense; it is really not going to help if I put more stats into defense.

[MaximusRex]

The problem is Tank Augments and Relics give power as the secondary start, while DPS Relics and Augments don't, so even if you swap out for B-Mods your HP is going to be running lower than equivalently geared DPS.

 

While no tank wants to be a Health sponge, having lower HP also makes us more prone to death by RNG when you fail to mitigate two hard hits in short succession.

[AscendingSky]

The problem is Tank Augments and Relics give power as the secondary start, while DPS Relics and Augments don't, so even if you swap out for B-Mods your HP is going to be running lower than equivalently geared DPS.

 

While no tank wants to be a Health sponge, having lower HP also makes us more prone to death by RNG when you fail to mitigate two hard hits in short succession.

 

Yeah, the fact tank augments give Power and DPS/heals augments give Endurance has never made any damn sense to me. I hoped they'd fix that someday, but nope, EAWare is too busy reskinning gear to sell on the Cartel Market I guess.

Edited February 11, 2017 by AscendingSky

[FerkWork]

240 Bulwark and Bastion Enhancements

242 Bulwark, Bastion Earpiece, Implants

240 or 242 DPS Relics

Tank or DPS mods B

242 Armorings

 

 

Yes the hp pool for DPS has inflated way too much compared to tanks. And yes Gearing has been absurd since they removed Absorb mods among other things especially that much defense (2k is good enough but I digress).

Edited February 12, 2017 by FerkWork

[Mackdi]

As with all tanking, it's better to take less damage, than be able to take more. I know it sounds confusing, but take a minute and think about it

 

You arent totally right. There is a bell curve for this. You need enough health to survive the spike damage but enough mitigation that you aren't taking all the damage every attack. You dont want to be on either extreme end. The answer lies in the middle ground somewhere.

[Andryah]

And as a healer I hate tanks with high HP and low mitigation. They are far more difficult to keep alive than those with higher mitigation and use up more force/energy/ammo.

 

This has been the consensus in our guild as well, and it has been largely driven by our primary healers in our discussions. Since it is largely up to them to manage heals and keep people alive, we are very inclined to agree with them on this.

 

HPs are important, up to a point.. then mitigation is king. And it's not like you cannot move some things around to bump HPs (like with augments) and not tear up your mitigation stats in the process.

 

As for player vs studio stats debates... players generally will always rail on the studio for the default stats they put on gear. This is as old as MMOs to be honest. There is no right or wrong answer here.... just lots of people willing to declare their personal take on stat mix to be THE only answer.

 

To the OP.... then fix your gear.. load it up with endurance if that's what floats your desires. It's modable gear, right?

Edited February 12, 2017 by Andryah