Snipers new FOTM??

[AlCorazon]

I have a sent and a shadow too. and usually i'm one of the top dps on my team with them. doesn't change the fact that snipers and mercs are op.

 

Please do not compare the damage that Snipers put out to damage coming from Mercs because that is night and day ....

[Vember]

most imps are only using 2 dmg classes (reps still seem to be playing everything, at least on harbinger. imps....vast majority just mercs, snipers, and a few sorc healers).

 

This is exactly right.

[jedcjedcjedc]

Please do not compare the damage that Snipers put out to damage coming from Mercs because that is night and day ....

If you're trying to say that snipers don't put out as much damage... you probably shouldn't.

[BigDumbViking]

Yeah, the self healing buffs they got were a bit strong, and the defensives have gotten downright crazy. The whole point of a glass cannon is that they are easy to kill, but if you let them free cast they will destroy you. I'm all for boosting their output but pulling some of their defensive wizardry.

[GloomyBoy]

Yeah, the self healing buffs they got were a bit strong, and the defensives have gotten downright crazy. The whole point of a glass cannon is that they are easy to kill, but if you let them free cast they will destroy you. I'm all for boosting their output but pulling some of their defensive wizardry.

LOL, take a look at this guy.

W T F dude, srsly? It's enough damage output as it is, w t f you want every token merc/sniper toon get highest damage in WZ all the time?

They should remove f ocking DCDS from them. Not all but some.

Edited February 10, 2017 by GloomyBoy

[Kazz_Devlin]

I am also using a Mara and a Sin ... and I still pull good dps, I just stand outside Snipers line of sight and watch my surroundings....to see where they are, minute you see that you are focused by them you get out. Both mercs and Snipers can be killed, stop hitting them during their heal to full phase and ull be fine... if ur gonna tunnel a merc when he is reflecting or healing from damage taken, well then yourself u need to l2p!

 

The stopping hitting them during heal phase is completely missing the point THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE IT! Either your full bore hard hitting DPS or your a tank YOU CANNOT BE BOTH WITHOUT BREAKING THE TRINITY!

Not to mention and i could be wrong about this cause I don't play merc but you have to spend utility points in order to get the heal when hit ability, which means that some merc's may not even have the heal when hit and at present the visual queue's between those that have it and those that don't are very hard to distinguish from so people are tending to error on just hitting everything. Which leads to the next point. How pray tell do you prevent others from hitting jugs with ED up or merc's with shield???? Especially in a giant Fluster Cluck of characters say trying to grab mid in a civil war match? Answer you don't its why its a bs ability which 90% leads to full health when at best it should heal 15% of max health IF peeps hit them. Now if this disgruntles those that play the class(s) then forego the heal when dmg'd altogether and just give them a heal that heals for 15% of max and be done with it! Your a fricken DPS class not a tank and heal to full should never been a possibility EVER!

Edited February 11, 2017 by Kazz_Devlin

[Kazz_Devlin]

Yeah, the self healing buffs they got were a bit strong, and the defensives have gotten downright crazy. The whole point of a glass cannon is that they are easy to kill, but if you let them free cast they will destroy you. I'm all for boosting their output but pulling some of their defensive wizardry.

 

this makes no sense.......at all! You admit they're OP and yet you want to boost there output EVEN MORE (i assume you mean dmg here) but have issues with pulling Defenses? Think you missed the whole point. Your DPS output is high enough your defenses are TO HIGH. Either Defense get reduced so that your essentially a glass cannon (which is as it should be) OR your DPS gets reduce because your no longer a pure DPS spec your a hybrid and as such your DPS and tanking ability should be well below Pure DPS spec's. So those of you that play DPS classes need to decide do you want uber dmg killing potential (Glass cannon) or mediocre dmg output plus mediocre tanking. Pick one you can't have both!

[Talon_strikes]

Snipers are a bit ridiculous...can't leap to them, so you have to walk up them, get knocked back and rooted, walk back, get knocked back again, walk back, they roll away, you're rooted....all the while you're eating massive damage to the face. Even if you do finally catch up to them, they have tank like defenses and can't be interrupted.

 

Worse than mercs, imo.

Aye this is a terrible class to 1v1. Most Snipers I've faced seem to know what they're doing.

 

However, this can be a class that's "pretty easy" to global. They're ALMOST like glass cannons. It's just most people usually let these guys freecast in the background because you can't leap to them and due to all of their KBs and roots and they will kite you by rolling into cover in various places like energizer bunnies on steroids.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Talon_strikes

[Morteistno]

With the new system I had to pick one of my many chars for pvp rather than what I used to do, ie play many different ones and I did pick my sniper. The main reason for doing so was that a) it was my second char and there is a bit more attachment to it than to most others - I still have my first char a sith assassin but she is still stuck at lvele 56 or so b) I thought that their biggest issue (no self heal at all) was mitigated a lot by the changes.

 

So... I do think snipers are significantly improved, not so much in the offensive department but in the survivability without a pocket healer the difference is quite big, Previously in 8 vs 8 once you got down a bit in health it was already like game over. People tend to focus players with lower health and as a sniper with no selfheals at all it would be just a (usually short) matter of time before you died.

 

Even if you made it out of a direct engagement I can't count the number of times when you would die due to a measly dot while frantically trying to recuperate but unable to do so because you were not out of combat yet.

 

In arena's snipers are a lot more fun as well. I used to hate them with my sniper at least, mostly as by default you or the merc would be target #1, your biggest contribution to the team would usually be try to stay alive long enough for your team to kill someone else - not exactly fun.

 

Now it seems much more balanced in that regards, Sorcs, mauraders, dps juggs, snipers I have seen all of the aboved be target #1.

 

I do not feel that snipers are fotm though,,, for two reasons.

 

1: snipers by their nature can not be fotm as the more snipers there are the less effective they become. They are in a way their own worst enemy. In a match with many snipers you will find yourself forced out of cover all the time which drastically reduces the effectiveness of the spec.

 

2. I don't see snipers overwhelming the stats in regs at least. I think of myself as a capable but nowhere near excellent player who is objective minded. Snipers will usually do quite good in the damage department but considering that they still haven't much utility to offer to a team other than damage that seems quite reasonable. A good merc or jugg will usually outdamage an equally good sniper though ... at least that is what it seems like to me. It is very, very rare that I see a sniper take top position in damage for instance. (and the few times it happened is because you were spamming suppressive fire most of the time)

 

I don't play ranked nor do I care for it, so in ranked experience may be different.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Morteistno

[Groncho]

This post is so full of badness that writting an educated answer is a total waste of time

[Totemdancer]

I was looking over at Bants DPS gearing stats for pve and he lists each class spec in DPS order.

Its interesting to see how the different specs stack up and not just classes. What was a real eye opener was Marksman Snipers being the second lowest, but virulence and engineering the 2nd and 3rd highest.

This really highlights a major attitude most of us have and that is to throw a whole class to the wolves and not consider specs. You only need to look at poor lightning that was already under performing to see what the Sorc class nerf did to it.

Let's just hope that all the QQ about Mercs being OP doesn't destroy the whole class because arsenal is in the middle at the moment and a whole class nerf would knock it towards the bottom.

 

Here is a list taken from Bants thread when every class is geared to 242. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=847112

DPS Ranking for Iokath MK-5, Tier 3: Legendary (242 ilvl)

 

Rank - DPS+-StdDev - vs Average (9303) DPS --- Imperial - Republic

01 - 10016+-290 - +7.67% --- Operative-Lethality || Scoundrel-Ruffian

02 - 9748+-144 - +4.79% --- Sniper-Virulence || Gunslinger-Dirty Fighting

03 - 9722+-243 - +4.50% --- Sniper-Engineering || Gunslinger-Saboteur

04 - 9698+-373 - +4.25% --- Mercenary-Innovative Ordinance || Commando-Assault Specialist

05 - 9626+-256 - +3.47% --- Marauder-Annihilation || Sentinel-Watchman

06 - 9461+-475 - +1.70% --- Operative-Concealment || Scoundrel-Scrapper

07 - 9459+-525 - +1.68% --- Assassin-Deception || Shadow-Infiltration

08 - 9453+-269 - +1.61% --- Marauder-Carnage || Sentinel-Combat

09 - 9359+-466 - +0.61% --- Mercenary-Arsenal || Commando-Gunnery

10 - 9339+-334 - +0.39% --- Juggernaut-Vengeance || Guardian-Vigilance

11 - 9179+-439 - -1.33% --- Juggernaut-Rage || Guardian-Focus

12 - 9152+-316 - -1.62% --- Marauder-Fury || Sentinel-Concentration

13 - 9013+-455 - -3.12% --- Powertech-Advanced Prototype || Vanguard-Tactics

14 - 8973+-312 - -3.55% --- Assassin-Hatred || Shadow-Serenity

15 - 8896+-345 - -4.37% --- Powertech-Pyrotech || Vanguard-Plasmatech

16 - 8870+-241 - -4.65% --- Sorcerer-Madness || Sage-Balance

17 - 8796+-416 - -5.45% --- Sniper-Marksman || Gunslinger-Sharpshooter

18 - 8692+-273 - -6.57% --- Sorcerer-Lightning || Sage-Telekinetics

 

If you look at the list and only buff or nerf based on spec and not class and only DPS and I'm not taking into account survivability, I would do the following.

 

 

Major buff to lightning

Big buff to marksman

Medium buff to madness

Medium buff to Pyrotech

Small buff to Hatred

Small buff to Prototype

Tiny buff to rage

Tiny buff to Fury

No buff to Vengeance

No buff to Arsenal

Tiny Nerf to Carnage

Tiny Nerf to Deception

Tiny Nerf to concealment

Small-medium nerf to annihilation

Medium nerf to innovatetive ordinance

Medium nerf to engineering

Medium nerf to virulence

Major nerf to lethality

 

 

You would need to take into account other factors as well to balance them all properly. But it's easy to see that whole classes aren't OP, only specs. We need to start asking for spec changes, not class changes and we need to stop QQing about whole classes or some specs just get annihilated when they nerf.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Totemdancer

[Paratusin]

I was looking over at Bants DPS gearing stats for pve and he lists each class spec in DPS order.

Its interesting to see how the different specs stack up and not just classes. What was a real eye opener was Marksman Snipers being the second lowest, but virulence and engineering the 2nd and 3rd highest.

This really highlights a major attitude most of us have and that is to throw a whole class to the wolves and not consider specs. You only need to look at poor lightning that was already under performing to see what the Sorc class nerf did to it.

Let's just hope that all the QQ about Mercs being OP doesn't destroy the whole class because arsenal is in the middle at the moment and a whole class nerf would knock it towards the bottom.

 

Here is a list taken from Bants thread when every class is geared to 242. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=847112

 

 

If you look at the list and only buff or nerf based on spec and not class and only DPS and I'm not taking into account survivability, I would do the following.

 

 

Major buff to lightning

Big buff to marksman

Medium buff to madness

Medium buff to Pyrotech

Small buff to Hatred

Small buff to Prototype

Tiny buff to rage

Tiny buff to Fury

No buff to Vengeance

No buff to Arsenal

Tiny Nerf to Carnage

Tiny Nerf to Deception

Tiny Nerf to concealment

Small-medium nerf to annihilation

Medium nerf to innovatetive ordinance

Medium nerf to engineering

Medium nerf to virulence

Major nerf to lethality

 

 

You would need to take into account other factors as well to balance them all properly. But it's easy to see that whole classes aren't OP, only specs. We need to start asking for spec changes, not class changes and we need to stop QQing about whole classes or some specs just get annihilated when they nerf.

 

no one is saying that their dps needs to be nerfed. ppl r saying that their defenses need to be nerfed

[Groncho]

no one is saying that their dps needs to be nerfed. ppl r saying that their defenses need to be nerfed

 

so basically melee should have no counter?

u wanna face roll everyclass there?

lol

[zhezvya]

I was toying with my lvl 70 Engi Sniper and lvl 60 Sharpshooter Slinger (actually leveled him from 50 to 60) for about 12 hours. And I honestly think Snipers defenses are fine. Most of them with rare exceptions (like Seek Cover and surprisingly not everyone takes it) work in cover only, unlike Mercs who can use their best dcds on the go. That means Snipers have to stay covered to use their “OP” defense tools. As soon as they get out of cover, they are dead meat. I believe this is a fair exchange.

 

Now, people complain on how you force them out of cover with 2X Entrench available? Well, LOS and lure them out. Bait them with taking couple of hits so they’d think you’re an easy prey and save your hard hitters for a surprise comeback. That’s what one mara did to my slinger yesterday- I’ve got him down to like 30% and started to chase him, he then used medpack, suddenly leapt back while I was out and burned me down like paper doll, smartly using Force camo, Obfuscate and Predation when I wasted Imperial Preparation. I’d be dead if not the sage who came to rescue.

 

Maybe (just maybe) devs could make it a harder choice in utilities like they did to sorcs. I think Defensive Safeguards and Tactical Retreat combined with Vital Regulators make Snipers a bit too sturdy. But again, a sturdy sitting duck is a questionable threat (#nerfarsenal)

[Totemdancer]

no one is saying that their dps needs to be nerfed. ppl r saying that their defenses need to be nerfed

 

I realise that. I was pointing out that the dps numbers show that 2 sniper specs and 1 operative spec are the top dps specs. Plus the top Merc dps spec will seem even more OP because of the bigger dps out put. Personally I don't think Arsenal is OP, just slightly overtuned.

[Thaladan]

the problems are mercs arsenal and sorcs heal, not sniper.

 

it's just that in this environement, it's safer for snipers. they are fine.

[Paratusin]

so basically melee should have no counter?

u wanna face roll everyclass there?

lol

 

it's like u have no idea what ppl are talking about... trolls...

[falkron-kerupt]

the problems are mercs arsenal and sorcs heal, not sniper.

 

it's just that in this environement, it's safer for snipers. they are fine.

 

you are kidding right or being sarcastic ? snipers have all three worlds for a glass canon and you say they are not op ? I am sry but snipers are a glass cannon you should not have best of all three worlds as far as dps def utilities and healing capability..If any one says different then maybe you should go back and read exactly what glass cannon means you are superior in dps burst with minimal def utility and low amount of heal.

 

Or i tell you what you can keep all that give all melee a 50 % dr utility to range tech / blaster attacks then we call it even.

Edited February 13, 2017 by falkron-kerupt

[Groncho]

you are kidding right or being sarcastic ? snipers have all three worlds for a glass canon and you say they are not op ? I am sry but snipers are a glass cannon you should not have best of all three worlds as far as dps def utilities and healing capability..If any one says different then maybe you should go back and read exactly what glass cannon means you are superior in dps burst with minimal def utility and low amount of heal.

 

Or i tell you what you can keep all that give all melee a 50 % dr utility to range tech / blaster attacks then we call it even.

 

Wich healing capabiility?

[mmmbuddah]

you are kidding right or being sarcastic ? snipers have all three worlds for a glass canon and you say they are not op ? I am sry but snipers are a glass cannon you should not have best of all three worlds as far as dps def utilities and healing capability..If any one says different then maybe you should go back and read exactly what glass cannon means you are superior in dps burst with minimal def utility and low amount of heal.

 

Or i tell you what you can keep all that give all melee a 50 % dr utility to range tech / blaster attacks then we call it even.

 

Id like to correct you. Marksman is OP AF, the others, not so much. Virulance does not need ANY nerfs. DOT classes in this game NEED more defensive passives to stay alive longer, burst classes should have LESS defensives. Which is why the utility system is a bit stupid to begin with.

[mmmbuddah]

Wich healing capabiility?

 

Snipers have 3 heals atm. Heal on roll, god bubble heal, and small heal per 3 seconds in cover. Those three things together give them some very substantial self healing.

[Groncho]

Snipers have 3 heals atm. Heal on roll, god bubble heal, and small heal per 3 seconds in cover. Those three things together give them some very substantial self healing.

 

yeah, sure...rofl

[Vember]

yeah, sure...rofl

 

He's not wrong.

[Totemdancer]

What are you talking about? They can't be interrupted or CC'd, can't be leapt to or pulled, and have tank like defenses. "Once focused"...everyone but mercs and sorc healers dies "once focused", some a lot quicker than others. Snipers are definitely not one of the weaker ones in that regard.

 

Go play a vanguard for awhile and you'll appreciate just how OP your precious sniper really is.

 

Fury Maras are the best to take on Snipers

[Devilk]

People are starting to counter merc dcd's and sniper has been strong for a while. Swap off merc when shield is up by either cc, or line, aoe the reflect. The only thing that really keeps them tanky is kolto overload because you can't burst through it alone.