Feedback: Horrible Mistake Emergency Fix Needed

[stoopicus]

Well when is 5.1.2 coming out. I am seriously hanging on by a thread here. All my friends told me I get what I ask for and told me to quit like they did. I hope this is coming soon because I don't have much left in me waiting for this to happen.

 

Two to three weeks, the 28th.

Edited February 9, 2017 by stoopicus

[Ryenke]

1) NOTHING in any set bonus is make or break (ie: critical). Some are more useful then others I acknowledge, which is a separate issue entirely on the aspect of balance actions by the studio for classes. You either have it and make allowances to take advantage of it, or you do not have it and again.. make allowances accordingly.

 

2) By all means keep complaining ... and they may very well remove set bonus entirely in the future.

 

1) I stand by my assessment and make it more specific. LOL, you obviously don't try to heal raids, particularly Hm or NIM on a sage healer. I'd pay to see your stream of you doing so without the set bonus. LOL.

 

2) I don't see I made any complaint in this thread. I said set bonus is critical for some specs if harder content is to be done. That is ALL I said. So, as far as I'm concerned you can keep your unfounded accusations and ridiculous assessments of the unnecessary nature of every single set bonus out there (you have full sets and experience playing with of each of the 48 (if my math is right) sets? - Yeah, I believe that).

Edited February 9, 2017 by Ryenke

[Zasszz]

before cxp you could run an op for 4 hours and receive nothing as well.

/shrug

At least you see several people in the group receiving loot they need from what drops at each boss. There isnt a guarantee that a char receives a single set piece in 300 crates.

[MaximumOwnage]

Increasing the unassembled components by x10 and giving them for all missions not just pvp/gsf and putting unassembled tokens back on all bosses of an operation as a 100% drop would fix this mess completely. I also think that the RNG crates should be dropping unssembled tokens instead of the actual gear to help with gearing of alts and handling duplicates.

 

If you were applying for a development position for SWTOR or leader position I would hire you on the spot. I could not agree more.

 

You sir obviously have your finger on the pulse of the player base. Something this development team is sorely lacking.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If you were applying for a development position for SWTOR or leader position I would hire you on the spot. I could not agree more.

 

You sir obviously have your finger on the pulse of the player base. Something this development team is sorely lacking.

 

Full tier 1 in ~30-35 WZs so fully geared SB in a day ... full 242 within a week.

Yeah, that's not realistic at all.

 

Whilst everyone agrees the current rate is far too slow 10x is ridiculously fast. You might as well scrap gearing for PVP and have a pure bolster system as many people have been pushing for for years now.

[TUXs]

Full tier 1 in ~30-35 WZs so fully geared SB in a day ... full 242 within a week.

Yeah, that's not realistic at all.

 

Whilst everyone agrees the current rate is far too slow 10x is ridiculously fast. You might as well scrap gearing for PVP and have a pure bolster system as many people have been pushing for for years now.

30 WZ's at 12 minutes a WZ is 6 full hours of PvPing...I don't know many people able to invest 6 hours per day into it, but even if someone could, tier 1 is basic starter gear...it should be easy to get. Tier 2 and 3 should take twice as long for each additional step...so 12 hours for tier 2, 24 for tier 3 gear. And I have no issue at all with going gear free for WZ's...bring back naked Bolster...it beats having gear be a deterrent.

[DHTarez]

Full tier 1 in ~30-35 WZs so fully geared SB in a day ... full 242 within a week.

Yeah, that's not realistic at all.

 

Whilst everyone agrees the current rate is far too slow 10x is ridiculously fast. You might as well scrap gearing for PVP and have a pure bolster system as many people have been pushing for for years now.

 

30 WZ's at 12 minutes a WZ is 6 full hours of PvPing...I don't know many people able to invest 6 hours per day into it, but even if someone could, tier 1 is basic starter gear...it should be easy to get. Tier 2 and 3 should take twice as long for each additional step...so 12 hours for tier 2, 24 for tier 3 gear. And I have no issue at all with going gear free for WZ's...bring back naked Bolster...it beats having gear be a deterrent.

 

I personally have 35 characters out of 38 possible on my main server as it stands right now. I have about 110 across all servers. The maximum I could get is 52 if I bought more character slots.

As it stands, gearing up under the current system is impossible for all the characters I like to play (and that is just the 35 currently).

 

Even using legacy gear at a minimum I have to have 14 legacy sets to cover the 7 pieces of sharable gear + 6 off hands that can be shared for all classes / specs. (I prefer to not share visible weapons and off-hands as each character gets their own look this way) it will take longer than I will give this current grind to gear up as I don't play one character exclusivity. This does not include the additional gear or sets I would need for PVP gearing differences.

 

In 3.0 / 4.0 I was able to complete a weekly worth of PVP or do PVP while leveling and get a full set of 204 PVP gear for a character when they hit level cap. I was also able to buy everything I needed for PVE gear at that point so the character could be used in my ops groups etc. Now not even a possibility.

 

I know bolster exists for story mode operations and gear is not an issue generally there but it doesn't for Hard (veteran) mode or higher so I cannot currently return to doing the operations I was doing before because gear and this lame grind are now a barrier to playing how I want to play.

 

I agree with Tux that the 230 gear should be quick and easy to get period. After that it can slow down. I am not asking for T2 and T3 gear to handled out like candy but I am asking for playing the game to be fun not a second job. And right now that is exactly how it is feeling to me and most of my guild mates and friends, many of which have stopped playing and dropped their subscription or will soon unless this things change drastically.

 

As far as the x10 increase in UA's from PVP and GSF, even with that done, after completely my weekly pvp on one character last week including doing 3 GSF matches in between that character only got a total of 41 UA's. So two days worth of play time in PVP and I cannot buy a piece of gear. At x10 I could at least get maybe 4 pieces or upgrade one or two.

 

While some may like a slow grind to get gear, others do not. Different play styles have to be supported or those that don't match the current on going grind play style will be gone and that will affect all of us. Already has.

 

I do not play this game to get gear. I play the game with friends to have fun in challenging ourselves in group content or see the story and try out different approaches to that story. The game now is about playing to get gear before you go back to doing what you were doing 4 months ago.

Gear is a tool not the goal. I need to tool to reach the goal. Why do I have wait for the RNG to decide when I have my tools before I can try for the goal?

[DHTarez]

If you were applying for a development position for SWTOR or leader position I would hire you on the spot. I could not agree more.

 

You sir obviously have your finger on the pulse of the player base. Something this development team is sorely lacking.

 

Thanks I think

 

I have been listening to a lot of friends and guild members discussing this grind about what they like, don't like etc.

And generally it is all negative but also many have thrown ideas around about how to make it right or better or what it would take to bring them back to the game.

 

As a software developer it is one of the things I have always tried to do in working on something to keep in mind not only what I am trying to code but also how the end user (customer) is going to interact with the software / feature and what expectations they will have from it. A lot of time what one sets out to do is not actually what the user wants even if it is what they might need.

 

I would have argued against this CXP grind gearing system from the get go not just because I am a player of this game but because I could have seen how it would adversely affect the player(s) in a lot of ways that doesn't seem like it was even considered.

Yes it is good an anyone can get top tier BIS gear eventually from doing anything in the game by earning CXP and crates, but it should have never been the main way to gear and it should not have been implemented with the removal of getting gear from unassembled tokens from OPS or purchasing gear via a PVP currency especially considering that gear is now a major factor in PVP . It also should not have done in such a way as to cripple playing alts in an game that promoted playing many many alts. One of the biggest thoughts I have every time I log in as well many of those I play with is which character I HAVE to play now to get CXP/crates and higher command rank on when it should be what character would I like to play today. It's bad right now even more with the current increase as now it even more punishing to say go level an new alt when all I think of is all the time that takes away from grinding on my "main" characters CXP. That should never be the way one looks at a game, it is not fun.

 

At a minimum the crates should be dropping unassembled tokens to handle duplicates and helping with gearing alts. Plus getting the Tier 1 gear should be quick to make sure even new players are at a good point quickly.

 

I can say for certain if I had just started playing this game today I would never have subscribed after seeing the grind required just to maybe get the end game gear one would need to do more challenging content.

[MaximumOwnage]

I personally have 35 characters out of 38 possible on my main server as it stands right now. I have about 110 across all servers. The maximum I could get is 52 if I bought more character slots.

As it stands, gearing up under the current system is impossible for all the characters I like to play (and that is just the 35 currently).

 

Even using legacy gear at a minimum I have to have 14 legacy sets to cover the 7 pieces of sharable gear + 6 off hands that can be shared for all classes / specs. (I prefer to not share visible weapons and off-hands as each character gets their own look this way) it will take longer than I will give this current grind to gear up as I don't play one character exclusivity. This does not include the additional gear or sets I would need for PVP gearing differences.

 

In 3.0 / 4.0 I was able to complete a weekly worth of PVP or do PVP while leveling and get a full set of 204 PVP gear for a character when they hit level cap. I was also able to buy everything I needed for PVE gear at that point so the character could be used in my ops groups etc. Now not even a possibility.

 

I know bolster exists for story mode operations and gear is not an issue generally there but it doesn't for Hard (veteran) mode or higher so I cannot currently return to doing the operations I was doing before because gear and this lame grind are now a barrier to playing how I want to play.

 

I agree with Tux that the 230 gear should be quick and easy to get period. After that it can slow down. I am not asking for T2 and T3 gear to handled out like candy but I am asking for playing the game to be fun not a second job. And right now that is exactly how it is feeling to me and most of my guild mates and friends, many of which have stopped playing and dropped their subscription or will soon unless this things change drastically.

 

As far as the x10 increase in UA's from PVP and GSF, even with that done, after completely my weekly pvp on one character last week including doing 3 GSF matches in between that character only got a total of 41 UA's. So two days worth of play time in PVP and I cannot buy a piece of gear. At x10 I could at least get maybe 4 pieces or upgrade one or two.

 

While some may like a slow grind to get gear, others do not. Different play styles have to be supported or those that don't match the current on going grind play style will be gone and that will affect all of us. Already has.

 

I do not play this game to get gear. I play the game with friends to have fun in challenging ourselves in group content or see the story and try out different approaches to that story. The game now is about playing to get gear before you go back to doing what you were doing 4 months ago.

Gear is a tool not the goal. I need to tool to reach the goal. Why do I have wait for the RNG to decide when I have my tools before I can try for the goal?

 

You are not alone. You are more the rule than the exception when it comes to alts and this development team knows this. They have the numbers sitting in front of them. That is why it is disgusting what they have done with gearing in 5.0.

 

Its like some sort of a sick joke the development team is playing. 2 years ago they ran up and down the forums and blogs saying how gearing is too tuff and with 3.3.1 they made gearing quicker and easier and how important it was for that change. Then 8 months ago they roll out this Dark vs Light event and again encouraged the players to make as many characters as possible (at least all 8 classes) to have the full enjoyment of the event. On top of that gave us several free LvL character tokens to make extra slots with and add even more toons to our accounts.

 

Now that leads us to where we are today. After all this build up towards to encourage its player base to make and play as many alts as humanly possible (2017 now has 52 character slots available) they kick us directly in the face. They roll out a Chinese style gear grind. Not only that but it is NOT attached to legacy and only applies to one toon making it impossible for anyone with a lot of alts to even consider.

 

I could go on and on and on but it really is simple. Raise the current return rate of the unassembled components to 10x of what it is now and this whole issue disappears immediately. Unfortunatly for me, my entire guild has quit over this issue and to my much surprise most of them WILL NOT return even if this is fixed. This entire roll out has put a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths. But the good news is that you can at least try to save people like me hanging on by a thread to continue to play.

 

As it is now, I cant do it. This system has broken my will to play. And it is so frustrating to watch all this damage being done that was and is totally unnecessary. What are you people waiting for? Why are you doing this? Is this some sort of psych op to see how badly you can torture someone who likes to play this game? Its such a simple fix, why are you not doing it? I don't get it.

[Deewe]

I "only" have 18 character and parked all but 2 as I don't see myself grinding that much.

 

Even now I barely have one character with 6 pieces of tier 1 set.

 

The more it goes the more I foresee characters as being story and look shells only, gear being shared between characters of the same skill-sets.

 

So to encourage players using alts, at level cap, we should be able to use the gear "unlocked" by our alts conveniently.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Deewe

[MeNaCe-NZ]

30 WZ's at 12 minutes a WZ is 6 full hours of PvPing...I don't know many people able to invest 6 hours per day into it, but even if someone could, tier 1 is basic starter gear...it should be easy to get. Tier 2 and 3 should take twice as long for each additional step...so 12 hours for tier 2, 24 for tier 3 gear. And I have no issue at all with going gear free for WZ's...bring back naked Bolster...it beats having gear be a deterrent.

 

Set bonus gear was never starter gear, not sure where you get this idea from. Previously you got set bonus gear after SM operations ( i.e. not before ) or from grinding out some PVP rep ( again, not given as a starter ).

 

Considering just how far people have got with GC ( based on the complaints around drops after 300 ) so far I'm personally surprised how much time people put into this game.

 

So instead of 1 day let's go 2 days. Full tier 1 set bonus in 2 days, 6 days for tier 2, 20 days for tier 3. Looking at it from a business perspective what lure is there after that to keep people occupied and paying?

I mean hell I'm for just giving me the gear outright, stuff it just give us all 242 that wouldn't bother me in the slightest - I can do whatever I want when I want then. However I do believe suggestions need to be reasonable from a business sense if they are going to be taken seriously by BWA and 10x is not so much.

 

3 - 5 x sounds more reasonable but again might as well scrap PVP gear altogether and put 100% random drops on the first bosses of operations with guaranteed set piece on final boss. Yes it's random but it slows down the progression that was clearly their goal whilst still actually making it viable to NiM gear via operations for those that can't beat every operation or even only a few bosses with current gear.

 

GC can stay as is then though I truly believe there needs to be a chance to drop other tier gear in earlier tiers just for an extra carrot boost.

 

What carrot then for PVP? Well if we look at most of the top PVP games in the world there is no gearing, we can assume then that true PVP players PVP because they enjoy PVP not to get gear. You can then chuck in a myriad of vanity items/decos that can be purchased via tokens instead - I assume the only reason they don't do this is because they think it might impact too heavily on CM sales which is a rather silly notion when you think of how many CM items aren't available due to embargo. Pretty sure people aren't buying packs for the chance cubes to maybe get one of those embargoed items they are after.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

-snip-

 

Bloody hell. Had a reasonably length reply to your post but they website stuffed up and timed out submitting it, not typing it again heh.

 

In short I was asking what you meant by being able to buy gear previous to 5.0 compared to now?

 

Also went on to say that if you meant with crystals that I agree that's the worst part of this system for me.

 

Previously I could buy 220 ( arguably tier 3 equivalent gear ) on day 1 and use that for HM+ content. Now I have to grind 100's of hours just to qualify for those drops.

People make out that RNG gear in crates is the worst part of this system but for me personally it's that restriction.

 

I would welcome RNG drops if it meant I was getting tier 3 equivalent ( non set bonus as we always had to work for those ) gear as soon as I was able to get it before. It's this massive time wall of 100's of hours that has me completely ignoring gearing now. I do what I can if it feels like fun otherwise I do something else.

 

5.2 is a bright light for me because I can continue ignoring the gearing until I need do HM+ content again. So it's new content for me to do that's just not 1 hour story ( I hope ).

Hopefully a solution would be put in place by then that helps a player like me who can't and won't grind tiers to get the gear he needs that isn't "Just PVP' - I'm not PVPing just to get gear for PVE, that's just backwards.

 

My worry is they make this new boss starting gear 242 and add 2 new tiers but surely they don't want to actually kill their game right? Because that's what that sort of change would do ( maybe Tait saw it coming lol ).

 

I guess though I could live with that since SM would be bolster and ideally drop 242+ gear from the boss which would have to have guaranteed gear drops ( and it was mentioned it would ) but is that random, set piece or token? Can't be set piece because wth would you get the other parts from heh ( unless they tweak all op bosses ).

 

Anyway I agree with the issues and problems but just pointing out 10x isn't going to happen, it's too fast and even if I were in BWAs shoes I wouldn't do that for that sole reason.

[TUXs]

Set bonus gear was never starter gear, not sure where you get this idea from. Previously you got set bonus gear after SM operations ( i.e. not before ) or from grinding out some PVP rep ( again, not given as a starter ).

 

Considering just how far people have got with GC ( based on the complaints around drops after 300 ) so far I'm personally surprised how much time people put into this game.

 

So instead of 1 day let's go 2 days. Full tier 1 set bonus in 2 days, 6 days for tier 2, 20 days for tier 3. Looking at it from a business perspective what lure is there after that to keep people occupied and paying?

I mean hell I'm for just giving me the gear outright, stuff it just give us all 242 that wouldn't bother me in the slightest - I can do whatever I want when I want then. However I do believe suggestions need to be reasonable from a business sense if they are going to be taken seriously by BWA and 10x is not so much.

 

3 - 5 x sounds more reasonable but again might as well scrap PVP gear altogether and put 100% random drops on the first bosses of operations with guaranteed set piece on final boss. Yes it's random but it slows down the progression that was clearly their goal whilst still actually making it viable to NiM gear via operations for those that can't beat every operation or even only a few bosses with current gear.

 

GC can stay as is then though I truly believe there needs to be a chance to drop other tier gear in earlier tiers just for an extra carrot boost.

 

What carrot then for PVP? Well if we look at most of the top PVP games in the world there is no gearing, we can assume then that true PVP players PVP because they enjoy PVP not to get gear. You can then chuck in a myriad of vanity items/decos that can be purchased via tokens instead - I assume the only reason they don't do this is because they think it might impact too heavily on CM sales which is a rather silly notion when you think of how many CM items aren't available due to embargo. Pretty sure people aren't buying packs for the chance cubes to maybe get one of those embargoed items they are after.

They'd do the same things they did during 4.0...they'd play alts, they'd PvP, they'd gear alts, they'd try harder things, they'd get better gear, they'd help others, they'd do the things they wanted to do...not grind RNG boxes for flippin gear.

 

And in the past, you could buy decent gear at 65 from the fleet vendors...that's not an option now. Now you need to wait until you loot the right thing via RNG to progress...hell, a long time ago they completely gave away FREE PvP gear to players...as many sets as you wanted...for FREE...and those guys kept playing.

 

Gear allows us to do the things we want to do and it restricts many things we'd like to do too.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

They'd do the same things they did during 4.0...they'd play alts, they'd PvP, they'd gear alts, they'd try harder things, they'd get better gear, they'd help others, they'd do the things they wanted to do...not grind RNG boxes for flippin gear.

 

As mentioned any times you don't have to grind RNG boxes. The idea is bringing the ability to gear through the current non boxes back to a more reasonable means.

 

And in the past, you could buy decent gear at 65 from the fleet vendors...that's not an option now. Now you need to wait until you loot the right thing via RNG to progress...

 

Refer my previous post around that, bigger issue than the whole RNG part for me personally.

 

Gear allows us to do the things we want to do and it restricts many things we'd like to do too.

 

If they scrapped PVP gear it would arguably only restrict you from HM+ operations and veteran/master chapters. Whilst it will make other content easier and faster - you aren't restricted from doing it due to gear.

[AscendingSky]

They'd do the same things they did during 4.0...they'd play alts, they'd PvP, they'd gear alts, they'd try harder things, they'd get better gear, they'd help others, they'd do the things they wanted to do...not grind RNG boxes for flippin gear.

 

And in the past, you could buy decent gear at 65 from the fleet vendors...that's not an option now. Now you need to wait until you loot the right thing via RNG to progress...hell, a long time ago they completely gave away FREE PvP gear to players...as many sets as you wanted...for FREE...and those guys kept playing.

 

Gear allows us to do the things we want to do and it restricts many things we'd like to do too.

 

At one point in the late 1.X days, they just gave you enough comms needed to buy yourself a set of PvE set bonus gear (Tionese, for those of you who remember that). People were GRATEFUL for that, because gearing in the 1.X days could be difficult thanks to how drops worked back then (i.e. randomly determined tokens that were assigned to a particular class of a player(s) in the group and couldn't be used by anyone not playing that class, and legacy gear did not exist back then).

 

As others have pointed out, EAWare has over the past 5 years made it simpler to get gear, and moved AWAY from those random drops off ops bosses and the PvP Battlemaster RNG boxes for gear. Now suddenly, with 5.0, they decided to make it all RNG all the time... and for some reason they were surprised when people became upset about EAWare backtracking and repeating old mistakes but even worse than before. Their 'tweaks' to this system (that I've only seen the same half-dozen white knights on the forums support, no one I see actually playing the game) have only added secondary grinds you have to complete along with the core Command crate grind for Command tokens.

 

It's like if EAWare was a pie shop, and for years they had been improving the quality of their pies, and offered a wide range of different fruit fillings that people liked. They liked the pies so much, in fact, that they paid for a Pie of the Month club. Then suddenly they switched ALL their pies over to using durian filling. Sure, some people may like durian (especially people over in Asia who are used to durian), but a lot of loyal customers will not want durian and will be upset that they're paying for the Pie of the Month club and getting something they think is terrible. So of course they're going to complain and/or cancel their subscriptions to the club.

 

That's what's happening here EAWare. Stop trying to feed us something many of us don't want. We wanted what you were providing before, we don't want this! We told you we didn't want this from the moment it was announced!

Edited February 9, 2017 by AscendingSky

[AscendingSky]

I could go on and on and on but it really is simple. Raise the current return rate of the unassembled components to 10x of what it is now and this whole issue disappears immediately. Unfortunatly for me, my entire guild has quit over this issue and to my much surprise most of them WILL NOT return even if this is fixed. This entire roll out has put a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths. But the good news is that you can at least try to save people like me hanging on by a thread to continue to play.

 

Unfortunately that fix (while definitely needed for PvPers) would not help those who primarily or only PvE. Loot drops from ops bosses are still entirely RNG save for the final boss. I've run several HM ops since 5.1, and only in one of those runs did any gear drop off a boss before the final boss. That is a piss-poor return rate and it is gutting the already weak and embittered raider community. People are becoming downright cutthroat on gear, refusing to let backfills roll on gear, kicking people out of the group before they can roll on a drop, or just flat up ninja looting it off the final boss and giving the other players in the group the middle finger as they log out. It's terrible, and it's become that way because of how hard it is to get a drop now. Many people no longer want to run ops at all unless it's with their guild, so people who don't have a raid-focused guild are pretty much screwed.

[DHTarez]

Bloody hell. Had a reasonably length reply to your post but they website stuffed up and timed out submitting it, not typing it again heh.

 

In short I was asking what you meant by being able to buy gear previous to 5.0 compared to now?

 

Also went on to say that if you meant with crystals that I agree that's the worst part of this system for me.

 

 

Buying gear previous to 5.0, crystals and warzone comms of course for starters.

 

Prior to that there was a time when they mailed each character a starter set of PVP gear with full expertise, And they gave you tionese crystals at one point to buy a full starter set with set bonus gear for PVE as mentioned by AscendingSky.

 

I remember those times because I have been playing that long. Why would I stop if I was having fun just because I had top tier BIS gear.

 

 

 

Set bonus gear was never starter gear, not sure where you get this idea from. Previously you got set bonus gear after SM operations ( i.e. not before ) or from grinding out some PVP rep ( again, not given as a starter ).

 

Not true. See Tionese comment.

 

Considering just how far people have got with GC ( based on the complaints around drops after 300 ) so far I'm personally surprised how much time people put into this game.

 

Me too. I will not grind that much. I have tried to play all of characters as normal, but that nagging is there about not focusing on my "main" or at least only my "main" class. My highest command rank is 24 all the way down to 3 still on 1. Average command rank is 9. Total of 265 crates opened so far, with a 60% disintegration rate. Been keeping blue to at least try to build workable sets, and of course the few usable purple set bonus pieces, relics and other left hand side stuff.

 

 

So instead of 1 day let's go 2 days. Full tier 1 set bonus in 2 days, 6 days for tier 2, 20 days for tier 3. Looking at it from a business perspective what lure is there after that to keep people occupied and paying?

 

How about playing the game and being able to enjoy whatever you want to do without having to worry about a gear barrier being there.

As I have said before I do not play this game to get gear. I sure some do. I don't. Gear is a tool, nothing more, but a tool I need to be able to do what I want to be doing. Without the right tools, I cannot survive as tank due to incorrect mitigation or lack of hit points, reach the dps I need to reach to help my group beat the enrage timer or heal the group through a difficult phase.

If they or anyone in my opinion thinks that gearing is the main reason people are continuing to subscribe and play this game they are mistaken. And forcing a gear grind as the mechanism to keep people subscribed is and has back fired. I have witnessed it firsthand with losses to the guild I am in and the potential loss to come including me. As it has become extremely frustrating as gear has becomes a focus when it shouldn't

 

 

I mean hell I'm for just giving me the gear outright, stuff it just give us all 242 that wouldn't bother me in the slightest - I can do whatever I want when I want then. However I do believe suggestions need to be reasonable from a business sense if they are going to be taken seriously by BWA and 10x is not so much.

 

3 - 5 x sounds more reasonable but again might as well scrap PVP gear altogether and put 100% random drops on the first bosses of operations with guaranteed set piece on final boss. Yes it's random but it slows down the progression that was clearly their goal whilst still actually making it viable to NiM gear via operations for those that can't beat every operation or even only a few bosses with current gear.

 

GC can stay as is then though I truly believe there needs to be a chance to drop other tier gear in earlier tiers just for an extra carrot boost.

 

I don't want gear to just be handed out, especially not top tier, but also shouldn't be so hard either, it shouldn't take like 8 months to gear one character or a super focused grind of the same repeated content. Do the content get the reward, not do the content and get nothing because RNG says not now. This grind, the CXP and Command Crates and current gearing is a punishment not a reward for subscribers - The PAYING customer, in my opinion, and many others I have talked with over the last several months.

 

 

What carrot then for PVP? Well if we look at most of the top PVP games in the world there is no gearing, we can assume then that true PVP players PVP because they enjoy PVP not to get gear. You can then chuck in a myriad of vanity items/decos that can be purchased via tokens instead - I assume the only reason they don't do this is because they think it might impact too heavily on CM sales which is a rather silly notion when you think of how many CM items aren't available due to embargo. Pretty sure people aren't buying packs for the chance cubes to maybe get one of those embargoed items they are after.

 

Same as it has been. The fun of beating the other team. Why does there have to be a carrot? Or if there is one, why do we have to get beat with the stick it dangles from just for trying to get to the carrot?

 

When the bolster for 5.0 was set to put everyone at the ilevel of 250, gear was not a problem. Now it is since they dropped the bolster to ilevel 232. That once again puts the focus of play on getting gear and that is the wrong focus.

 

Focus should be on playing the game and having fun, not gear. Yet this CXP grind is gear focused.

Edited February 10, 2017 by DHTarez

[MaximumOwnage]

Buying gear previous to 5.0, crystals and warzone comms of course for starters.

 

Prior to that there was a time when they mailed each character a starter set of PVP gear with full expertise, And they gave you tionese crystals at one point to buy a full starter set with set bonus gear for PVE as mentioned by AscendingSky.

 

I remember those times because I have been playing that long. Why would I stop if I was having fun just because I had top tier BIS gear.

 

 

 

 

 

Not true. See Tionese comment.

 

 

 

Me too. I will not grind that much. I have tried to play all of characters as normal, but that nagging is there about not focusing on my "main" or at least only my "main" class. My highest command rank is 24 all the way down to 3 still on 1. Average command rank is 9. Total of 265 crates opened so far, with a 60% disintegration rate. Been keeping blue to at least try to build workable sets, and of course the few usable purple set bonus pieces, relics and other left hand side stuff.

 

 

 

 

How about playing the game and being able to enjoy whatever you want to do without having to worry about a gear barrier being there.

As I have said before I do not play this game to get gear. I sure some do. I don't. Gear is a tool, nothing more, but a tool I need to be able to do what I want to be doing. Without the right tools, I cannot survive as tank due to incorrect mitigation or lack of hit points, reach the dps I need to reach to help my group beat the enrage timer or heal the group through a difficult phase.

If they or anyone in my opinion thinks that gearing is the main reason people are continuing to subscribe and play this game they are mistaken. And forcing a gear grind as the mechanism to keep people subscribed is and has back fired. I have witnessed it firsthand with losses to the guild I am in and the potential loss to come including me. As it has become extremely frustrating as gear has becomes a focus when it shouldn't

 

 

 

 

I don't want gear to just be handed out, especially not top tier, but also shouldn't be so hard either, it shouldn't take like 8 months to gear one character or a super focused grind of the same repeated content. Do the content get the reward, not do the content and get nothing because RNG says not now. This grind, the CXP and Command Crates and current gearing is a punishment not a reward for subscribers - The PAYING customer, in my opinion, and many others I have talked with over the last several months.

 

 

 

 

Same as it has been. The fun of beating the other team. Why does there have to be a carrot? Or if there is one, why do we have to get beat with the stick it dangles from just for trying to get to the carrot?

 

When the bolster for 5.0 was set to put everyone at the ilevel of 250, gear was not a problem. Now it is since they dropped the bolster to ilevel 232. That once again puts the focus of play on getting gear and that is the wrong focus.

 

Focus should be on playing the game and having fun, not gear. Yet this CXP grind is gear focused.

 

Thank you for being honest. It seems some people just like spreading deceitful lies to White Knight the situation. And the situation is not good for SWTOR ATM. My guild is empty and I am on the brink of unsubbing like the rest of my friends did. Sad days and I am a founder here since pre order.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Not true. See Tionese comment.

 

Fair enough, not never. Surely though in terms of 5.0 we aren't going to compare it that far back and more to what we were accustomed to in 4.0? That being the case then starter gear was not set bonus gear.

 

I don't see the need to just hand out set bonus gear like candy. Thought, as mentioned, I do this we need easier ways to get the non set bonus gear that doesn't involve having to grind to Tier 2 or Tier 3 or spending a fortune on crafted items.

 

How about playing the game and being able to enjoy whatever you want to do without having to worry about a gear barrier being there.

As I have said before I do not play this game to get gear. I sure some do. I don't. Gear is a tool, nothing more, but a tool I need to be able to do what I want to be doing. Without the right tools, I cannot survive as tank due to incorrect mitigation or lack of hit points, reach the dps I need to reach to help my group beat the enrage timer or heal the group through a difficult phase.

 

If they or anyone in my opinion thinks that gearing is the main reason people are continuing to subscribe and play this game they are mistaken. And forcing a gear grind as the mechanism to keep people subscribed is and has back fired. I have witnessed it firsthand with losses to the guild I am in and the potential loss to come including me. As it has become extremely frustrating as gear has becomes a focus when it shouldn't

 

 

 

As I mentioned before ( whichever thread that was, they are all starting to blur together now ) - I'm for entirely ditching gear both PVP and PVE. We really don't need that hamster wheel anymore and who is to say that the idea of a gear grind isn't actually detrimental or how many people play and for how long as opposed to beneficial?

 

There are quite a lot of reasons to ditch gearing altogether in favour of other rewards but not too many reasons to keep it beyond "sense of progression and time it takes" which really affects such a small portion of the community. I would imagine more people would be inclined to try harder content if "gear" didn't have to be a worry which they could only ever get previously from grinding the content they couldn't do properly due to "gear" in the first place.

 

 

 

I don't want gear to just be handed out, especially not top tier

 

Why not though? Because it's a status symbol for those that can do the toughest content? No one gave a crap about people wearing full BiS gear for the most part in terms of "status" - what was more recognised was people rocking out Wings of the Architect or their full dread master set, titles etc. - so why not just have more vanity items like this and do away with this concept of grinding out stat based gear?

 

If BWA want people grinding have it optional as to doing the content we want to enjoy i.e. tokens to buy certain vanity items like how reputation used to work ( and will again in 5.2 no doubt ). Still RNG vanity drops on bosses, GC crates with random loot and tokens to buy from a vendor but just entirely do away with stat based gear at max level.

 

Do we really think more people would miss it than not? Do we really think it would drive more people away than the grinding concept has done and is doing ever worse now? I doubt that a lot.

 

 

Same as it has been. The fun of beating the other team. Why does there have to be a carrot? Or if there is one, why do we have to get beat with the stick it dangles from just for trying to get to the carrot?

 

When the bolster for 5.0 was set to put everyone at the ilevel of 250, gear was not a problem. Now it is since they dropped the bolster to ilevel 232. That once again puts the focus of play on getting gear and that is the wrong focus.

 

Focus should be on playing the game and having fun, not gear. Yet this CXP grind is gear focused.

 

The carrot isn't needed but it is beneficial - we know people love playing dress up because almost every game these days that has online components has a cash dress up shop and they seem to do big business. Thus having that as an extra lure on top of the fun of PVP certainly can do no harm and you're no longer "forced" into doing it as aiming for stat gear often feels ( and indeed is if you want to remain competitive at the top end or doing the toughest content in the game ).

 

Remove stat gear from end game, problem solved.

 

I know MMO expert - in fact I know little beyond this game but have many/any MMOs tried something like this? We know some of the most popular games in the world like Overwatch, LoL, Dota 2, CoD etc. etc. gearing isn't the prime driving factor - fun and vanity are so why can't it be the same here?

[stoopicus]

Man I miss 250 Bolster. Anyone that disliked that in PvP is a tool that should be ignored and perhaps ridiculed. It fixed everything.